So about the whole "Scorpio will cost $599-$799" thing......

hahahahahaha you two are adorable. Marry each other already

Sorry, I'm not into people with toe thumbs.

theres no version of reality where it costs more than 499. thats the absolute price ceiling. 399 is the most likely price imo

edit - just to be clear, referring to the base model

edit 2 - @dynamitecop AMD states no custom apus with zen until 2018 at the earliest. that + the expense and power draw of zen make its inclusion highly unlikely. altho not impossible

LOL give it a chance, you'll ask for more

Which is totally irrelevant to the fact that it is way more powerful than scorpio and has 12GB of ram,the Fury X and the Fury are also more powerful and don´t have 12GB or need them.

Bullshit the system capabilities are tied to the performance of its component you blind fanboy.

Stop making shit up you claim 3X and now want to backtrack,Scorpio has 6TF which is 42% give or take stronger than Pro there will be no destroying there will not be 3X gaps,like i already told you if Pro can´t achieve 4k in a game,Scorpio hitting 4k already is using most of the 42% power difference just like it is the case now with the xbox and PS4.

BY the way it came to light that AMD will not have custom version of rizen before 2018,so either scorpio will be delay or chances are a Jaguar is back into the equation.

And the price leak put the cheapest version at more than $140 dollars,the next model is more than $200.

NO it included a UHD drive,a bigger GPU,4GB extra or memory and faster CPU probably,those are 4 extra things over the Pro.

The Pro was $399 and just bumped the GPU 2+ X more,it doesn't even use a different CPU it use the same memory and same 8GB of ram.

Thant without saying that scorpio may also come with a 1GB HDD like Pro.

Your argument is flawed since you can't fu**ing fallow an argument the XBOS 2GB is $400 dollars and uses a 7770 like GPU in power a Jaguar at 1.7ghz DDR3 memory cheaper than GDDR5,and just 2TB HDD,the XBO s and PS4 are $299 now the $249 deal was for the holidays.

We have a company that claimed openly that Scorpio would be higher priced than the xbox one,sadly for you when they announce that the XBOX had 2 models a $400 one and a $300 one,so yeah it will be more expensive than both MS stated so.

I'm pretty sure there were also a bunch of Multiplats that were developed on PS3 first then ported to 360 which STILL ran better on the 360. Hell I remember a bunch of devs saying that developing on PS3 first then porting to 360 was the better way to develop during last gen. Basically if it ran at all on PS3 it would easily run on 360.

@EG101:

Not when it came down to exclusives. Although Forza was the higher rated exclusive racer last gen, on a technical level, Motorstorm ran circles around Forza like clockwork. I can not sit here and say that the 360 was the more powerful system last gen, when the PS3 had better looking and more technical exclusives.

@EG101: Thanks for that five-quote chain tag notification you lazy ass.

How can this thread even exist? I've been told that only cows make Scorpio threads.

A match made in SW's heaven. I saw we vote for dual kings of SW's in the year end vote!

@tormentos:

Fury X uses system memory which is limited to PCI-E version 3.0 16X's 16 GB/s read+16GB/s write bandwidth as a "hyper-memory".

There are cases Fury X's 4 GB/s the limiting factor at higher resolution hence Vega 10's 8 GB VRAM setup e.g. Fury X's minimum frame rate gets impacted by memory swap between system memory and VRAM.

Read http://techreport.com/review/28612/asus-strix-radeon-r9-fury-graphics-card-reviewed/6

R9-390 8 GB has better minimum frame render time consistency than Fury X 4 GB.

The minor difference between Fury X (377 GB/s with crappy delta compression) and R9-390X (311 GB/s with zero delta compression) is most effective memory bandwidth.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pro-bandwidth-is-potential-bottleneck-for-4k-but-a-thought-through-tradeoff-little-nightmares-dev

According to devs, PS4 Pro's GPU is constrained by memory bandwidth (218 GB/s) at 4K which Scorpio has higher memory bandwidth (>320GB/s).

PS; I wasn't impressed by Fury X's 4GB issues, hence my 980 Ti selection. You haven't dealt with selecting Fury X 4 GB vs 980 Ti 6 GB.

Projection...lol

I own a PS4 Pro and currently have no desire to own a Scorpio, but even I know Microsoft wouldn't be dumb enough to price themselves out of competition, especially coming out a full year later. And while its more powerful than the PS4 Pro it isn't a drastic leap over it, so Microsoft can't justify a huge gap in price. It will be priced no higher than $50 above the PS4 Pro's price.

No, UHD drive cost is minor e.g. XBO S with 240 mm^2 chip (wasn't a perfect 2X density due to 32 MB ESRAM) vs XBO with 363 mm^2 chip. There's also another year on UHD drive maturity.

XBO doesn't use 7770 (Cape Verde) stupid fool i.e. it facking uses Bonaire IP silicon with an extra GCP and extra memory controllers for ESRAM.

My 8870M OC (850Mhz core, 78 GB/s GDDR5, 1 triangle rate per cycle) couldn't match XBO's tessellation and MSAA levels e.g. 8870M OC was beaten by XBO in Quantum Break. Bonaire IP includes 2 triangles per cycle rate.

Extra 4 GB VRAM cost is minor since it's not RX-480's 8 GB of GDDR5-8000 rated i.e. 328 GB/s only needs 384 bit x 7000 Mhz GDDR5 which is the same as PS4 Pro's 8 GB GDDR5-7000.

ZEN's cpu size is 4.1 mm^2 at 14 nm process and Jaguar's cpu size is 3.1 mm^2 at 28 nm process. Embedded ZEN directly replaces Jaguar. Mainstream ZEN based APU arrives around H2 2017 which replaces both Puma/Jaguar and Excavator based PC APUs.

Scorpio's 6 TFLOPS GPU and CPU solution are products from AMD's year 2017 road map not from year 2016.

You can buy a x1s with a game for 250 right now. My guess the scorpio will use a custom version apu based on the ryzen+vega. This part should allow the scorpio to hit the 450 price and still hit the performance target.

This is speculation but I don't think MS would price themselves out the market after the original x1 launch **** up.

No it isn't.

Post the link for AMD states no custom apus with zen until 2018 at the earliest.

the link http://digiworthy.com/2016/09/11/amd-zen-custom-socs-project-scorpio/ is bullshit.

8 puma core at 2.1 ghz wouldn't be able to drive R9-390X OC class GPU nor fulfil Oculus Rift's system requirements.

PHIL SPENCER CLEARLY STATED THAT XBOX SCORPIO COULDN'T BE LAUNCHED UNTIL 2017 BECAUSE THE HARDWARE WOULDN'T BE AVAILABLE YET AS THE HARDWARE HASN'T BEEN MANUFACTURED AND WON'T BE UNTIL NEXT YEAR 2017.

Scorpio's estimated SoC size is 362 mm^2 and Polaris 10 has about 232 mm^2.

The remaining 130 mm^2 is more than enough for full 8 core ZEN+NB+SB.

Raven Ridge's 4 watts TDP target just step on Carrizo-L Puma (Jaguar) and Stoney Ridge APUs.

Raven Ridge 2X ~= Scorpio with 8 CPU cores + 32 CU at 1.5 Ghz (about half of Vega 10's 64 CU at 1.54 Ghz, 12.5 TFLOPS).

Yes, it is.

Pro is 4.2TFLOPs. 3X that performance is 12.6TFLOPs. The Scorpio is 6TFLOPs. Care to explain how the Scorpio is 3 times more capable than the Pro?

3 times more capable? $700 Xbox confirmed!

GPU FLOPS difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is about 1.43X or 1.43X less time to calculate a results.

Memory bandwidth difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is about 1.46X or 1.46X less time read/write results into memory storage. It could be more if Vega has Nvidia Pascal level memory delta compression. PS4 didn't deliver memory bandwidth +CPU advantage over XBO.

When combined, it's 2.89X less time to calculate a results and writing the results into memory.

16 ms (60 fps) or 33 ms (30 fps) per frame render involves both compute and read/write memory access.

The order of importance with any compute device

1st. compute power

2nd. memory bandwidth. Memory writes operations are dependant on compute results being available.

XBO has the order of importance upside down hence nearly pointless high memory bandwidth advantage. Scorpio is the correct version.

You sure have overly flexible arms because the stuff you pull from the inner chasm of your ass is truly astounding. The Scorpio DOES NOT have 3 times the "capabilities" of the Pro. All of that shit you just posted clearly reflects this. Ass logic.. Stop acting stupid

Are you people this daft?

• It's got 4GB's more RAM, it can load 50% more data into the memory at any given point in time.
• It's got 102 GB/s higher memory bandwidth, it can transfer this data 46% faster.
• It has a GPU which can execute 42% more floating point operations per second.
• If the CPU is Ryzen based it should end up being in the neighborhood of 66% more powerful.

At peak system usage Scorpio is capable handling 3x the system load of the PlayStation 4 Pro. it can parse far more data into the RAM and faster, it can execute far more graphical operations and faster, it can handle more CPU based calculations and faster.

I don't know how you people can be so braindead to not see this, individual aspects of the system are 42% to 66% more capable but a system is not only a sum of its parts, it's a sum of them working together to create a unified system, and as a unified system Scorpio at peak operation is capable of handling 204% more than the PlayStation 4 Pro.

Just as the GPU is capable of handling 42% more floating point operations, other aspects of the system are capable of handling relative percentages more as well, and they all have to be weighed individually and combined to create a total system capability percentile advantage.

As a unified system Scorpio is a 204% more capable device than the PlayStation 4 Pro.

None of this is hard to understand, a child could grasp this, what that says of people like yourself remains to be seen...

Did NyaDC really just say the Scorpio has three times the capability of a PS4 Pro? Wow, this thread is going places!

@dynamitecop: When you start to talk shit as facts you are beyond reasoning. I have seen the level of stupidity you can reach when you go into stupid mode. Stop being illogical damnit. You are talking nonsense. The Scorpio based on the vey limited data of the system is not 3 times more "capable" than the Pro. That's ass speak. Stop frequenting that language.

Come back with a competent post nullifying what I've said or don't even bother, I'm not doing this "you're wrong" bullshit where you say something but refuse to explain as to why, it's an insult to intelligent discussion.

So, formulate a proper response or get lost.

@dynamitecop: Speculation is not facts dumbass. Learn the difference.

The only speculated aspect of what I've said is related to the CPU deficit, and I specified it as speculation although you should take heed of the numbers I am throwing out for it as they're extremely plausible, that doesn't negate anything else I've specified.

Again, not a competent response.

$299.99 for a Scorpio with controller.

Fanboys have too much money to burn but normal people have regular lives and have to actually earn their money.

@dynamitecop: I am only here to inform folks that you are making shit up and passing it off as facts. That's all. You can complain about my approach but I am not going into a non factual argument with you based on your asinine claim and ridiculous speculation. Even when facts are given you conveniently ignore it. But that's besides the point. The point is rather simple, your claim is nonsense. You don't have facts on your side. You are speculating out of your ass. And I know more about the Scorpio than you do. But, time will prove me right and you wrong. I can wait. ?

You really do like making long winded posts addressing absolutely nothing, you're the amalgamation of stupidity.

Address my post, address my figures and percentages, address the bases of my capability argument, address the so called speculation, actually do something that requires you to engage the argument.

You're being dumb, you've said not one competent or intelligent thing to tackle the fundamentals of what I'm saying.

Try, or plainly piss off.

When you speculate on speculation you are only creating more speculation and creating more non facts. The ONLY fact about the Scorpio that has been disclosed that is NOT speculation is that the GPU has the performance of 6TFLOPS. Everything you listed is speculation. EVERYTHING. There is nothing to argue because your core argument is made up of guesses. You want to play the game of arguing speculation? That is simply dumb. You want to make claims that the Scorpio is 3 times more "capable". More capable of what and based of what? Speculation. So, the only one being dumb here is you. Now, if you made the claim that you believe that it may be 3 times more "capable" then fine. But then you run into the other issue. More capable of what? And this statement is the most golden

"a system is not only a sum of its parts, it's a sum of them working together to create a unified system," <---- they both mean the same thing. LOL. A system is the the sum of the parts working together. When you are up to the task of talking facts and not speculation we can have a real discussion. But at the moment you only have 6TFLOPS.

The floating point performance of the GPU is not speculated, the memory bandwidth is not speculated, the memory capacity is not speculated.

The only speculation in my post is in regard to the CPU, but given AMD's roadmap it's educated speculation. If that speculation of the CPU is in fact accurate, the overall system capability of the Scorpio eclipses the Pro by 204%.

The TFLOPS is not speculation as I have clearly stated but it is the ONLY factual data that has been released to the public. You are speculating on speculation. That is nonsensical. Don't try to pass that activity as facts because it isn't. Educated or not. We do not know what AMD GPU is in the Scorpio. We do not know what type of memory is onboard. We do not know what type CPU is onboard. We do not know the interface that is being used to connect these components. So, you cannot make any claims outside of the GPU performance in comparison to the Pro beyond it being ~43% faster.

No, they released the memory bandwidth and showed a PCB with 12 RAMDAC's as well, also based upon cost and capacity the only memory that could be in this system is GDDR5. Anything lesser could not produce this level of bandwidth and anything more would be insanely expensive such as GDDR5X, HBM, HBM2, it can only be GDDR5.

We know the floating point performance of the GPU, we know how current AMD's GPU architecture performs, newer architecture will no doubt be better, we know the memory bandwidth, we know the memory capacity and we know the memory type given a process of simple elimination.

The only thing we do not know is what the CPU is, but given AMD's roadmap Ryzen is looking to be a shoe in, if it is my figures are accurate.

Show me a link that officially discloses the memory bandwidth and memory capacity. Also everything else you have stated is still based on speculation. Why is it so hard to understand the difference between facts and speculation?

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

The bandwidth is front and center, and as you can plainly see there are 12 RAMDAC's surrounding the APU. Also, as I previously said GDDR5 can be the only memory type, this isn't speculation, they don't need to tell anyone to know this for a fact. No cheaper RAM could hit 320 GB/s of bandwidth, and any other option such as GDDR5X, HBM or HBM2 would be far too expensive, that leaves a single memory type, it's a simple process of elimination.

@Pedro: Microsoft's E3 presentation shows familiar GDDR5 setup with 384 bits ie. similar to R9-280X.

Scorpio has atleast Polaris 10's delta memory compression and memory controller effecencies.

R9-390X has zero delta memory compression, hence 311 GB/s effective memory bandwidth. Polaris 10 scaled to 384 bits and GDDR5-7000 yields 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth and delta memory compression + memory controller effecencies yields 333 GB/s.

Scorpio's GPU solution is atleast similar to R9-390X OC at 4K. Microsoft already confirmed native 4K with first party titles for Scorpio.

RX-470D ~= PS4 Pro

R7-265 ~= PS4.

Devs already stating PS4 Pro's memory bandwidth is bounding the 4.2 TFLOPS GPU.

Scorpio's GPU solution is superior to RX-480 8 GB and R9-390X 8 GB, but inferior to Fury X (when it's not bound by 4 GB VRAM issues).

@dynamitecop: Just to add...

E3 quote states "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth" ie. GDDR5-7000 x 384 bits yields 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth.

Cheap GDDR5-7000 is used in lowest Polaris 10 RX-470D SKU and PS4 Pro.

@dynamitecop said:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

The bandwidth is front and center, and as you can plainly see there are 12 RAMDAC's surrounding the APU. Also, as I previously said GDDR5 can be the only memory type, this isn't speculation, they don't need to tell anyone to know this for a fact. No cheaper RAM could hit 320 GB/s of bandwidth, and any other option such as GDDR5X, HBM or HBM2 would be far too expensive, that leaves a single memory type, it's a simple process of elimination.

The image indicates that its 12GB of RAM but its not a fact until MS discloses that information or there is hands on with the system. Base on the link your provided, the three facts about the system that has been disclosed is that its has 6TFLOPS of GPU power, 320GB/s memory and 8 core CPU. Thats it. Everything else that is derived from this is speculation. Its highly likely that the image is the final board but that has not been disclosed and does not make it a fact. Now lets exam your claims

• It's got 4GB's more RAM, it can load 50% more data into the memory at any given point in time. ---This is still speculation.
• It's got 102 GB/s higher memory bandwidth, it can transfer this data 46% faster. --- This would be a fact
• It has a GPU which can execute 42% more floating point operations per second. --- This would be a fact
• If the CPU is Ryzen based it should end up being in the neighborhood of 66% more powerful. ---- This is speculation

The amount of available memory that the Scorpio would have in excess to the Pro for games is unknown. Making the memory advantage unknown outside of bandwidth. The CPU is unknown and any speculation based on this unknown variable with regards to the system as a whole is going to be non factual and also unknown. I would however say that its highly unlikely that its going to be Ryzen and it would most likely be the shitty Jaguar. This is my speculation and not a factual claim.

With all of that said, your claim of the Scorpio being 3X more "capable" than the Pro is not based on facts. Its a speculation based on other speculation. The GPU is going to be more than 42% faster based on the faster bandwidth. How much faster would be pure speculation but it would exceed the 42% ratio.

Did i say it use a 7770 moron? NO i say like because that is the reality flop wise the XBO is closer to a 7770 than to a 7790 which is 1.79 TF fool vs the 7770 which is 1.28TF and the xbox one 1.31TF,no only that even with 1GB of ram the 7770 has beaten the xbox one in many games the fulll 7790 not even worth mention as it also beat the xbox one even with 1GB of ram as well.

Ryzen start at $200 by leaks,the cheapest version is $149 dollars that is more expensive than many FX out there stronger than the jaguar and more than a i3 which as well,not to mention TDP which is not on par with jaguar at all ryzen was measure at 95watts top which is way abode what the Jaguar uses.

Any cost add you say the cost is minor but reality is 5 dollars inside multiply 5 million times is 25 million dollars dude,the cost of building rises why in hell you think sony let UHD out.?

They wanted to deliver cost vs performance,the XBOS has it because it is cheaper to build than the PS4 has cheaper components and cheaper memory from the off shot.

Oh please man stop your MS ass kissing scorpio will arrived in 2017 because MS was fu**ing late they were catch pants down,reality is MS did not had to wait until fu**ing 2017 to have the power lever scorpio has,as today we have GPU way pass fu**ing 6TF which is midrange now at best a RX480 OC is pass 6TF and you fu**ing know it and any CPU out now from AMD would do,hell a beefier FX would work better than the Jaguar inside the xbox one.

If cutting edge was MS north they would have something much stronger than 6TF for sure the tech is there.

Polaris soll nach dem Stand der Gerüchte auch in den kommenden überarbeiteten Konsolen von Microsoft und Sony stecken, dort werden sie aber weiterhin mit alten Prozessorkernen gepaart – entgegengesetzt einiger aktueller Medienberichte auch bei Microsofts Xbox Scorpio. Zen-Kerne und neue Grafik als Semi-Custom-Lösung soll es nicht vor 2018 geben, deutete AMDs Chefin Lisa Su in kleiner Runde an.

https://www.computerbase.de/2016-08/amd-grafikkarten-marktanteil/

Translate it dude...lol

Lisa Su

I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, in terms of desktops, servers and notebooks, but one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we look beyond 2017 into the 18/19 timeframe, and so we really do view this as developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets and we have good prospects in those areas.

https://cc.talkpoint.com/cred001/112816a_as/?entity=54_FBH3EQX

15:40 into the video...

And there he goes again...hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The 7790 has 1GB of ram and fu**ing walk over the xbox one,regardless of having 1/8 of the xbox one total available memory and does so at 1080p without problems.

Hell the xbox one memory was say to be 204GB/s combined the 7790 has 96 GB/s not even half..

Again how come the 7790 beat the xbox one.? Oh yeah it has more power and more power regardless of having less memory still deliver better performance,oh and this is without taking into account that the xbox one tools like DX11 X were more streamline than what you would find for the 7790 back when it launched.

Again The Pro is not shooting for 4K native is shooting for 1800p and using checkerboard rendering,since the Pro is targeting lower resolution and not Ultra either by default it uses less bandwidth and less memory as well.

Again the Fury beat R390X on Tomb Raider in very high even that it has half the memory,of the 390X,you don't get it ram doesn't increase power,bandwidth doesn't increase power either,when you OC memory and you get better performance because of higher bandwidth is because the bandwidth in question wasn't enough for that GPU,which is what makers do many times.

What does will do is allow the scorpio GPU work at its best.

Scorpio is not 3 times as capable as the PS4 Pro it has 42% more GPU which is what the PS4 more or less has over the xbox one but unlike the XBO vs PS4 you have to wait a whole year minimum to get that gap.

@Pedro said:

@dynamitecop said:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

The bandwidth is front and center, and as you can plainly see there are 12 RAMDAC's surrounding the APU. Also, as I previously said GDDR5 can be the only memory type, this isn't speculation, they don't need to tell anyone to know this for a fact. No cheaper RAM could hit 320 GB/s of bandwidth, and any other option such as GDDR5X, HBM or HBM2 would be far too expensive, that leaves a single memory type, it's a simple process of elimination.

The image indicates that its 12GB of RAM but its not a fact until MS discloses that information or there is hands on with the system. Base on the link your provided, the three facts about the system that has been disclosed is that its has 6TFLOPS of GPU power, 320GB/s memory and 8 core CPU. Thats it. Everything else that is derived from this is speculation. Its highly likely that the image is the final board but that has not been disclosed and does not make it a fact. Now lets exam your claims

• It's got 4GB's more RAM, it can load 50% more data into the memory at any given point in time. ---This is still speculation.
• It's got 102 GB/s higher memory bandwidth, it can transfer this data 46% faster. --- This would be a fact
• It has a GPU which can execute 42% more floating point operations per second. --- This would be a fact
• If the CPU is Ryzen based it should end up being in the neighborhood of 66% more powerful. ---- This is speculation

The amount of available memory that the Scorpio would have in excess to the Pro for games is unknown. Making the memory advantage unknown outside of bandwidth. The CPU is unknown and any speculation based on this unknown variable with regards to the system as a whole is going to be non factual and also unknown. I would however say that its highly unlikely that its going to be Ryzen and it would most likely be the shitty Jaguar. This is my speculation and not a factual claim.

With all of that said, your claim of the Scorpio being 3X more "capable" than the Pro is not based on facts. Its a speculation based on other speculation. The GPU is going to be more than 42% faster based on the faster bandwidth. How much faster would be pure speculation but it would exceed the 42% ratio.

1. AMD's game consoles are based from AMD's PC based IP blocks, hence it's semi-custom.

Scorpio wouldn't have R9-280X 6 GB's GDDR5 module densities and original XBO has 8 GB + 32 MB of memory storage. 12 GDDR5 chip modules with PS4 Pro's GDDR5 module densities yields 12 GB of memory storage. This speculation is better than your speculation.

2. It's was stated "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth". 320 GB/s memory bandwidth is the minimum threshold. The fact is "more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth".

3. No problems.

4. Fact, Scorpio has specs to meet Oculus Rift's minimum CPU spec i.e. Intel i5-4590 equivalent or greater. According to Project Cars developers, it takes 4 Jaguar at 1.6 ghz to equal a single Intel Haswell core at high clock speed. Intel i5-4590 has quad core at 3.3 Ghz with 3.7 Ghz Turbo. Your Jaguar CPU claims doesn't support Oculus Rift's minimum CPU spec.

Scorpio has the power to run PC's Fallout 4 Oculus Rift' VR i.e. Scorpio is effectively a facking gaming PC with Microsoft's brand.

http://wccftech.com/surface-studio-sold-out/

Microsoft's Surface Studio Models All Sold Out – Even the Most Expensive Ones Are Unavailable. My point, consumers are gravitating towards Microsoft offered X86 PC hardware.

AMD Athlon 5350 (Puma/Jaguar) at 2.3 Ghz OC quad core bottlenecks Doom 2016 Vulkan + AMD GCN hardware access API with Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC 4GB (1000/1300). That's 5.12 TFLOPS of AMD GCN version 1.1 GPU with physical memory bandwidth 325 GB/s i.e. 263 GB/s effective memory bandwidth at 81 percent memory controller efficiency without Polaris 10's delta memory compression.

The above youtube's AMD Athlon 5350's memory setup adds another 22 GB/s of physical memory bandwidth.

Historical

PC's R7-265 ~= PS4 (Digital Foundry's claim). Similar AMD TFLOPS and AMD memory bandwidth yields similar results.

Scorpio might just end up being a entry PC, called Xbox.

This is why I stated 2X Raven Ridge APU mirrored with each other.

Scorpio's 384 bit memory bus PCB is built from PS4 Pro's 256 bit GDDR5-7000 + at least 64 bit DDR3 with a 320 bit memory bus total PCB.

The extra 4 GB memory price can be gathered from RX-480 4 GB (with GDDR5-7000) vs 8 GB (with GDDR5-8000) difference.

Q4 2017 UHD Blu-ray player extra 1 year maturity.

-----------

@tormentos said:

Oh please man stop your MS ass kissing scorpio will arrived in 2017 because MS was fu**ing late they were catch pants down,reality is MS did not had to wait until fu**ing 2017 to have the power lever scorpio has,as today we have GPU way pass fu**ing 6TF which is midrange now at best a RX480 OC is pass 6TF and you fu**ing know it and any CPU out now from AMD would do,hell a beefier FX would work better than the Jaguar inside the xbox one.

As for your 6 TFLOPS GPU in 2016 claims. You have forgotten yields for 5.83 TFLOPS RX-480 vs E9550 vs RX-470 vs RX-470D.

Game consoles are built from the worst working chip yields, hence why PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU is similar to worst working chip yield RX-470D's 4.5 TFLOPS GPU.

Game consoles doesn't have multiple PC SKUs to recover different grade chips.

R9-390 is worst working chip yield for Hawaii GCN which replaced the older R9-290.

For minimum 6 TFLOPS GPU with good yields, RX-470D should not be the worst working chip yield and should not exist.

FX Piledriver or Excavator relies on high clock speed and it's integer IPC is similar to Jaguar/Puma. Puma's FPU?SIMD IPC is superior to Piledriver or Excavator module since Puma doesn't share it's FPUs with two threads.

Everything you say there was speculation,outside the mathematical differences between components the rest was so.

You can't add Ram and Bandwidth into a power equation,simple because Ram doesn't produce power,nor bandwidth,so adding 50% more ram + 42% more power together doesn't equate into 92% more power or capabilities.

You can take scorpio bandwidth and Ram and move it to the xbox one,lets say the xbox one has 320GB/s and 12GB it would still mean total shit,even that the mathematical increase over the PS4 would lead you to believe that the xbox one is much more capable or powerful.

Example.

Scorpio has 82% more bandwidth than the PS4.

It has 50% more ram than the PS4 to.

That is 132% more combined but the PS4 has 40% more GPU power.

So we take 40% out of 132 that comes to 92% so by your logic the XBO with 320GB/s and 12GB of ram would be 92% more powerful or more capable than the PS4,when in reality the PS4 would still kick its ass power wise because it doesn't have enough power to keep with the PS4 at 1080p max out,regardless of having more ram and bandwidth it lack POWER,if ram and bandwidth alone would increase power,all AMD had to do would be add more bandwidth and ram than Nvidia GPU that would solve their problems.

I could take the argument of Scorpio getting most out of its GPU than pro because of bandwidth and that would still be debatable,since less power requires less bandwidth,so Pro doesn't need as much bandwidth as scorpio,but to blindly increase performance or capabilities just by adding % is a joke.

Stop..

According to Remedy Quantum Break requires an i5 minimum how the fu** does it run on xbox one.? It has a shitty Jaguar.

Another case of over blown spec requirements and unoptimized shit.

First AMD Ryzen Review Leaked – Aggregate Performance 46% Faster Than FX-8370 with 93 Watt Power Consumption.

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-review-leaked/

By the way The cheapest 8 core Ryzen is $349 dollars,is also 93 watts i guess that about kill the notion of Scorpio getting a freaking 8 core Ryzen,if it does so it would be a cripple as hell Ryzen ala Jaguar which defeat the whole purpose since a Jaguar like Ryzen will not have the performance a full Ryzen will,and this claim 46% faster than the FX8370 so the jump from jaguar to ryzen equivalent could be even lower.

By the way i think is far easier to have a 4 core Ryzen which by the way again start at $149 which would mean a pricier Scorpio,4 cores 8 threads sounds about right but TDP still an issue to see,because this isn't a stand alone =CPU is an APU.

You're arguing with the guy who said Xbox one was going to catch up and even pass the PS4 last year in sales world wide because of Halo 5. Expect anything and everything from him...

No man there is no yield excuse the performance you will get from 5.8Tf vs 6Tf is nothing not freaking worth sacrificing 1 year which is lethal in this industry more than power is.

The PS4 Pro is not similar to the 470 is a RX 480 water down,36 CU is not what the RX470 has,in fact i find this funny because when i claim the XBO has a similar GPU to the 7770 you cry like a child and start saying is bonaire and has more CU,but when it is the PS4 Pro you have no problem comparing it to the 470 based on performance rather than on actual chip inside it the RX470 doesn't have 36 working CU.

MS was late.

@ronvalencia: All of that typing linking and other useless ranting does not change the fact that you are speculating. Speculations are not facts. You can post six gazillion charts, hundreds of YouTube vids and state random specification but it still speculation.

@tormentos said:

@dynamitecop said:

@Pedro said:

The only speculated aspect of what I've said is related to the CPU deficit, and I specified it as speculation although you should take heed of the numbers I am throwing out for it as they're extremely plausible, that doesn't negate anything else I've specified.

Again, not a competent response.

Everything you say there was speculation,outside the mathematical differences between components the rest was so.

You can't add Ram and Bandwidth into a power equation,simple because Ram doesn't produce power,nor bandwidth,so adding 50% more ram + 42% more power together doesn't equate into 92% more power or capabilities.

You can take scorpio bandwidth and Ram and move it to the xbox one,lets say the xbox one has 320GB/s and 12GB it would still mean total shit,even that the mathematical increase over the PS4 would lead you to believe that the xbox one is much more capable or powerful.

Example.

Scorpio has 82% more bandwidth than the PS4.

It has 50% more ram than the PS4 to.

That is 132% more combined but the PS4 has 40% more GPU power.

So we take 40% out of 132 that comes to 92% so by your logic the XBO with 320GB/s and 12GB of ram would be 92% more powerful or more capable than the PS4,when in reality the PS4 would still kick its ass power wise because it doesn't have enough power to keep with the PS4 at 1080p max out,regardless of having more ram and bandwidth it lack POWER,if ram and bandwidth alone would increase power,all AMD had to do would be add more bandwidth and ram than Nvidia GPU that would solve their problems.

I could take the argument of Scorpio getting most out of its GPU than pro because of bandwidth and that would still be debatable,since less power requires less bandwidth,so Pro doesn't need as much bandwidth as scorpio,but to blindly increase performance or capabilities just by adding % is a joke.

@ronvalencia said:

4. Fact, Scorpio has specs to meet Oculus Rift's minimum CPU spec i.e. Intel i5-4590 equivalent or greater. According to Project Cars developers, it takes 4 Jaguar at 1.6 ghz to equal a single Intel Haswell core at high clock speed. Intel i5-4590 has quad core at 3.3 Ghz with 3.7 Ghz Turbo. Your Jaguar CPU claims doesn't support Oculus Rift's minimum CPU spec.

Stop..

According to Remedy Quantum Break requires an i5 minimum how the fu** does it run on xbox one.? It has a shitty Jaguar.

Another case of over blown spec requirements and unoptimized shit.

First AMD Ryzen Review Leaked – Aggregate Performance 46% Faster Than FX-8370 with 93 Watt Power Consumption.

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-review-leaked/

By the way The cheapest 8 core Ryzen is $349 dollars,is also 93 watts i guess that about kill the notion of Scorpio getting a freaking 8 core Ryzen,if it does so it would be a cripple as hell Ryzen ala Jaguar which defeat the whole purpose since a Jaguar like Ryzen will not have the performance a full Ryzen will,and this claim 46% faster than the FX8370 so the jump from jaguar to ryzen equivalent could be even lower.

By the way i think is far easier to have a 4 core Ryzen which by the way again start at $149 which would mean a pricier Scorpio,4 cores 8 threads sounds about right but TDP still an issue to see,because this isn't a stand alone =CPU is an APU.

What are these benchmarks? Do these benchmarks pertain to AI logic and 3D dot movement? Does the console version need to exceed 60 fps?

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/241688-new-leaked-benchmarks-show-amds-ryzen-going-toe-toe-intels-core-i7

~93 watts was for +3.4 Ghz for 8 cores. Raven Ridge's laptops version will not have desktop's +3.4 Ghz for 8 cores. Expect laptop Raven Ridge's CPU clock speeds to be similar to Intel Core i5/i7 Skylake Mobile's clock speed.

With the same clock speed, RYZEN's SIMD units has quad 128 bit wide unit layout (one cycle for 256 bit AVX FADD or AVX FMUL) instead of Jaguar's dual 128 bit wide SIMD unit layout (two cycle for 256 bit AVX FADD or FMUL).

Intel Sandybridge's SIMD units are 256bit wide.

If you noticed with Piledriver/Streamroller/Excavator APUs, desktop FX-83x0's L3 cache has been removed. I expect RYZEN APU version to gimp L3 cache.

For Doom Vulkan with PC graphics settings at 60 fps target, the box needs 40 percent faster than quad core Jaguar at 2.3 Ghz with laptop's power consumption e.g. Raven Ridge 2X i.e. 8 cut-down RYZEN CPU cores at 2.2 Ghz + 32 CU Vega at 1.5 Ghz (6 TFLOPS).

Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro has checkerboard 4K/30 fps. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-ps4-pro-vs-pc-comparison

HIS Roaring Turbo RX-480 Rise of the Tomb Raider PC at 4K + Ultra setting yields 31 fps average and it doesn't need checkerboard. PS4 Pro's version is less than PC's Ultra settings.