So when is Bungie going to fix Halo 3 Melees?

I first thought it was lagg, but then i saw the youtube-movie about the whole "broken-melee" thingy and I couldn't agree more.

In Halo 3, if someone comes from behind and shoots you first, only one bullet or so, you're dead. You have no choice to escape because turning around can be really slow and you got auto-aim, so it's not like the backstabber will miss. The problem is, in Halo 2 you still had a chance to kill those pesky backstabbers by meleeing fast when you got the chance too, and that doesn't work in Halo 3.

So if you come from behind, you win.

I was wondering why I lost melee battles so often, even when I thought I striked first. Ithought it was just lag :shock:

When I'm attacked from behind, I normally just stick the attacker so I take them down with me :D

One of the biggest complaints of the game and Bungie won't even comment on it. I love Halo 3 but the melee system is completely broken and needs to be fixed.

(I am refering to how in a melee battle whoever has more health wins, instead of who strikes first)

Yay non-Ratchet and Clank thread.

Koolsen

so basicly what everyone wants in here is for melee to be a 1 hit kill ?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

the system is perfect the way it is whiny noobs.

MC can fall from space & survive but cant take a simple melee- strange?CwlHeddwyn

melee is a last hit attack and should only only kill from full health if you hit from the back( which it does).

seriously why do u noobs want to downgrade the game ?

its perfect the way it is.

u all think being able to melee someone faster regardless of health is SKILL ? LOL

this is a fps and like all fps the shooting( who has better aim and who shoots first) is what counts. i guess your all very nub and slow aim ?

u all think being able to melee someone faster regardless of health is SKILL ? LOL

this is a fps and like all fps the shooting( who has better aim and who shoots first) is what counts. i guess your all very nub and slow aim ?

MikeB_74

It's not "regardless of health". If both people's health are low enough where 1 melee attack will kill, the person who hits first should win. That's what people are asking for. And if they were to keep the current system, they just need to make it so that the time frame for a simultaneous hit is reduced.

[QUOTE="Deactivation"]Learn to deal more damage before hand, you shouldn't win if you're low on heath, that's just absurd.Slurms_M

So if you have a slower response time in a shooting game you should win?

what the tc is saying, in halo 3, if both people have enough damage done to them that they are able to die from a whack, when they go to whack each other, it's not whoever is fastest that wins, but whoever has more health, even though THEY ARE BOTH DAMAGED ENOUGH TO DIE FROM A MELEE

I.E. lets just say for the sake of argument that melee does 40 percent damage.

2 people are shooting each other up and they go to melee each other.

person 1 has 30 percent health.

person 2 has 20 percent health.

person 2 hits person 1 first, but then person 1 whacks back within a fraction of a second.

now in all logical sense how should this excecute???

once again: person 2 hits person 1 first, but then person 1 whacks back within a fraction of a second.

both people are able to die from a melee, and person 2 hit person 1 first, so why doesn't person 1 die??

------

what happens in the game is the opposite, person 2 dies because person 1 has more health.

the system bungie implemented makes no sense when you logically work through the gameplay.

I only have three major complaints about the game and this is one of them.

Bungie better fix this, and its not just the timing thats flawed, the lunge is freaking rediculous.

I only have three major complaints about the game and this is one of them.

Bungie better fix this, and its not just the timing thats flawed, the lunge is freaking rediculous.

Hat_Damage

If they really need their "tie-breaker" melee system, they should seriously reduce lunge range. Last time I checked, Spartans can't fly like vampires.

the system bungie implemented makes no sense when you logically work through the gameplay.

mistervengeance

I was thinking about it, and I think I see both why it's not a bad idea, but why it's messed up.

Your general assesment is right. If both you and me are fighting, and you've got less health but manage to place a finishing blow before I do, you should be awarded a victory, and thus the system is broken.

However, the chance of lag (even the very small amounts present in ALL online games) can rear it's ugly head. As you and me both know, the melee moment of the battle is quick and deadly. So, maybe I did lunge before you did by a couple milliseconds, but you have a better connection to the host, and I ended up dying. So the idea behind H3's system is that in those circumstances, it can be considered a technical tie -we don't really know who went first, so we consider both to have hit at the exact same time. While both dying would be an acceptable solution, the health tiebreaker is not such a bad idea.

The problem is this: The time for this tie consideration is ridiculous. It's too large. At most, it should be around 200ms (a good reaction time for a normal human), and preferrably between 100-125ms. That time is long enough for lag not to be an issue on any decent connection, but short enough to make impossible to both react and have the melee sequence occur before the time expires.

I'd wager it's not such a bad compromise, and it should be easy to patch. I know it's not perfect, but I think it manages to fall in line with both keeping first-hit kill logic and allowing for bungie's desire for a fair result.

The melee is bloody broken. A friend I had came on over for some split screen, and within the first five kills he said "something's really wrong with the melee." It's not hardly noticeable, and it's not a rare event. On a 25-kill match I had a situation like this occur no less than 8 times. It was disgraceful.

The reason melee exists is like a close-combat trump card, a deciding factor. The person who manages to approach the proper distance and gets the right angle, all the while coming under enemy fire, can take an underdog situation and, with a little skill, come out the victor. It's how I play, half my kills were beatdowns pulled off a split-second before the enemy could zero in for the whack. It was, bar none, my favorite part of the combat system.

And now they make it a formality to the shooting, a handicap to the inability to aim accurately in really close quarters. As it stands, it basically means that whoever wins the whack would have won the shooting battle. There's no reason to have it anymore, it's not a trump card or a clever balancing move. It's been ruined, and I now quite literally feel ill.

Finally, I can't see how on earth it could be considered a reward if one chap pulls off his melee a whole half-second before the other. That's not a reward, that's a natural result of skill.

The melee is bloody broken. A friend I had came on over for some split screen, and within the first five killshe said "something's really wrong with the melee." It's not hardly noticeable, and it's not a rare event. On a 25-kill match I had a situation like this occur no less than 8 times. It was disgraceful.

The reason melee exists is like a close-combat trump card, a deciding factor. The person who manages to approach the proper distance and gets the right angle, all the while coming under enemy fire, can take an underdog situation and, with a little skill, come out the victor. It's how I play, half my kills were beatdowns pulled off a split-second before the enemy could zero in for the whack. It was, bar none, my favorite part of the combat system.

And now they make it a formality to the shooting, a handicap to the inability to aim accurately in really close quarters. As it stands, it basically means that whoever wins the whack would have won the shooting battle. There's no reason to have it anymore, it's not a trump card or a clever balancing move. It's been ruined, and I now quite literally feel ill.

Finally, I can't see how on earth it could be considered a reward if one chap pulls off his melee a whole half-second before the other. That's not a reward, that's a natural result of skill.

mutenpika

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

If you recklessly approach, you're just as open to melee attack as your opponent. Not to mention that the new system practically guaruntees a "first shot" win.

By your logic, the shotgun and mauler should be removed as well. Melees require you to get even closer, and even then do less damage. In the end they're a calculated aid and a balancer, not a reward for recklessness.

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

Big_T-Mac

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

[QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

[QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

[QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

If you're clearly winning a shooting battle, you can try tilting the analog stick back, and suddenly a melee becomes impossible. Besides, getting "owned all the way in and getting out with a melee" has happened all of three times to me in my Halo Experience over the last five years. It's usually the deciding factor in an extremely close situation or the quick end of a situation where a gun-holder approached unprepared and unaware.

I have a question: would you want to eliminate melee from Halo all together? The way you make it sound, you don't think it serves any purpose at all.

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

mutenpika

If you recklessly approach, you're just as open to melee attack as your opponent. Not to mention that the new system practically guaruntees a "first shot" win.

By your logic, the shotgun and mauler should be removed as well. Melees require you to get even closer, and even then do less damage. In the end they're a calculated aid and a balancer, not a reward for recklessness.

I know if you recklessly approach you're open for a melee, hence why I called it a reckless tactic.

"First shot" doesn't mean most damage. You can be hit first and still cause more damage over the course of a shoot off.

I never said melee should be "removed" anywhere in any post in this thread. And I don't consider the shotgun style guns last ditch efforts.

And I think the new melee design is more balanced.

simply put, halo 3 melees:

[QUOTE="Hat_Damage"]

I only have three major complaints about the game and this is one of them.

Bungie better fix this, and its not just the timing thats flawed, the lunge is freaking rediculous.

Mordred19

If they really need their "tie-breaker" melee system, they should seriously reduce lunge range. Last time I checked, Spartans can't fly like vampires.

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"][QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

DrinkDuff

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

I'm not going to shoehorn this broad topic of many instances where this could happen into an unfortunate design that's hinder FPS through the genre's existence.

If you respawn somewhere bad, well "life sucks better luck next time" is all that can really be said.

the only person supporting this terrible system is "RPG GAMER."i think his name says enough abouthis fps cred.Big_T-Mac

It's my second favorite genre, if you're attempting to put me down as a gamer by my tag that's a pretty piss poor way to take the topic, next. :|

[QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"]the only person supporting this terrible system is "RPG GAMER."i think his name says enough abouthis fps cred.-RPGamer-

It's my second favorite genre, if you're attempting to put me down as a gamer by my tag that's a pretty piss poor way to take the topic, next. :|

truth:

/thread.

[QUOTE="mutenpika"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

If you recklessly approach, you're just as open to melee attack as your opponent. Not to mention that the new system practically guaruntees a "first shot" win.

By your logic, the shotgun and mauler should be removed as well. Melees require you to get even closer, and even then do less damage. In the end they're a calculated aid and a balancer, not a reward for recklessness.

I know if you recklessly approach you're open for a melee, hence why I called it a reckless tactic.

"First shot" doesn't mean most damage. You can be hit first and still cause more damage over the course of a shoot off.

I never said melee should be "removed" anywhere in any post in this thread. And I don't consider the shotgun style guns last ditch efforts.

And I think the new melee design is more balanced.

I can't help but think that the theories you field are a little contradictory.

It's unskilled to approach and take damage like mad, just to win a fight (an objection you raised to my argument). Yet the shotgun style is just that, and there's no getting around it.

First shot almost always means most damage, the guns do too much damage for that not to be the case.

You never said they should be removed, but you keep stating they're skill-less methods that unbalance the game.

The new melee system just puts more of a physical "oomph" onto a firefight that's decided elsewhere, and prompts the melee-ers to get uncomfortably, unstrategically close in a situation that's already been decided with guns. Why not just finish it with guns in this system?

With your arguments, there's no reason to keep the melees in at all. They no longer serve any purpose whatsoever, except for stealth kills, which could be made context-sensitive!

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"][QUOTE="Big_T-Mac"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

-RPGamer-

Yes, nothing screams skilled like someone getting pwned all the way in just to tap the b button a split second earlier than the other person who actually caused more damage through out the course of the battle.

Seriously if rushing people is getting you killed now more than before... change your gameplay. Losing is a learning experience if you use it correctly.

I'm not going to shoehorn this broad topic of many instances where this could happen into an unfortunate design that's hinder FPS through the genre's existence.

If you respawn somewhere bad, well "life sucks better luck next time" is all that can really be said.

so basicly what everyone wants in here is for melee to be a 1 hit kill ?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

the system is perfect the way it is whiny noobs.

MikeB_74

No, the system isn't perfect; it's not terrible, but it's not perfect. They can definitely make it better. And stop calling people noobs; it just makes you look like a...well, a noob.

If you're clearly winning a shooting battle, you can try tilting the analog stick back, and suddenly a melee becomes impossible. Besides, getting "owned all the way in and getting out with a melee" has happened all of three times to me in my Halo Experience over the last five years. It's usually the deciding factor in an extremely close situation or the quick end of a situation where a gun-holder approached unprepared and unaware.

I have a question: would you want to eliminate melee from Halo all together? The way you make it sound, you don't think it serves any purpose at all.

mutenpika

Again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself, I never said I wanted it removed. I tire of redundancy, I won't say that again.

Melee does more than be a saving grace at the last second against someone who has a bit more health than you but you happen to tap a button just slightly faster... which is essentially what all of you are complaining about. You're not really fighting for "melee", you're fighting for an instance of melee where you now feel cheated.

Sometimes you gotta grow as a gamer, mix it up, change your style. I mean if you noticed it wasn't working, why keep trying? And instead of complaining about it being "skilled gamers" (as you all seem to be), why not tweak your abilities with said skill to win in other ways?

I think the big problem is, Halo 3 has essentially created a situation where you must do damage to your opponent first. It's extremely difficult to kill someone who is behind you (which, while somewhat realistic, kills the momentum of the game in some ways), and instead of making melee a last-resort way to even things up, they've made it favor the person who shoots first over the person who melees first. Basically, if you shoot first, you win. But if you melee first, unless you also shot first, you lose. This system honestly kind of sucks (and yeah, after seeing that youtube video, I felt a little better about some of my melee encounters), and hopefully Bungie will recognize that and go back to the Halo 2 system.

Again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself, I never said I wanted it removed. I tire of redundancy, I won't say that again.

Melee does more than be a saving grace at the last second against someone who has a bit more health than you but you happen to tap a button just slightly faster... which is essentially what all of you are complaining about. You're not really fighting for "melee", you're fighting for an instance of melee where you now feel cheated.

Sometimes you gotta grow as a gamer, mix it up, change your style. I mean if you noticed it wasn't working, why keep trying? And instead of complaining about it being "skilled gamers" (as you all seem to be), why not tweak your abilities with said skill to win in other ways?

-RPGamer-

I'm not the chap rambling about skilled gamers, I'm the chap barking about balance and variety in gameplay.

I don't wish to be redundant, but what do you want melee in for? I haven't seen you answer that question once, which is why I keep asking it. You just say you want it, you won't say why.

The point being, a big part of the Halo experience for me is the tenseness of the Melee. If they get rid of that, all that remains is the Rocket-launcher, and I hate that in every shape or form. In essence, it means I wasted 35 dollars on Halo 3 (the SP is easily worth 25) and I should bloody well go play counter-strike which I do play on occasion and does everything but CQ battles better than Halo 3 anyway, in my humble opinion.

I never play sniper, vehicles, or rocket in Halo. For me, it's toe-to-toe man-one-man combat. And for that, the old melee system was quite well balanced and made for the single best experience in that regard I've ever had.

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself, I never said I wanted it removed. I tire of redundancy, I won't say that again.

Melee does more than be a saving grace at the last second against someone who has a bit more health than you but you happen to tap a button just slightly faster... which is essentially what all of you are complaining about. You're not really fighting for "melee", you're fighting for an instance of melee where you now feel cheated.

Sometimes you gotta grow as a gamer, mix it up, change your style. I mean if you noticed it wasn't working, why keep trying? And instead of complaining about it being "skilled gamers" (as you all seem to be), why not tweak your abilities with said skill to win in other ways?

mutenpika

I'm not the chap rambling about skilled gamers, I'm the chap barking about balance and variety in gameplay.

I don't wish to be redundant, but what do you want melee in for? I haven't seen you answer that question once, which is why I keep asking it. You just say you want it, you won't say why.

The point being, a big part of the Halo experience for me is the tenseness of the Melee. If they get rid of that, all that remains is the Rocket-launcher, and I hate that in every shape or form. In essence, it means I wasted 35 dollars on Halo 3 (the SP is easily worth 25) and I should bloody well go play counter-strike which I do play on occasion and does everything but CQ battles better than Halo 3 anyway, in my humble opinion.

I never play sniper, vehicles, or rocket in Halo. For me, it's toe-to-toe man-one-man combat. And for that, the old melee system was quite well balanced and made for the single best experience in that regard I've ever had.

again, if this system was smart, y not say the same for the gunplay? "sure u put his hp below 0 before he could to u, but he had more health going into the fight, so he wins now."Big_T-Mac

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

Donkey_Puncher

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

DrinkDuff

To be honest, I never noticed it until people started pointed it out. I was too busy killing people tha old fashioned way by SHOOTING them. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Sorry. :?

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

Donkey_Puncher

To be honest, I never noticed it until people started pointed it out. I was too busy killing people tha old fashioned way by SHOOTING them. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Sorry. :?

It doesn't happen very often but it is a little irritating when it does. And if you don't melee, someone else usually does and then you are dead. Shooting only works if you have enough distance between you and the oponent. Unfortunately, you don't always find yourself in open environments.DrinkDuff

To be honest, the only thing I hate in halo are the grenade whores. I don't really have a problem with Melee's. If there's one thing I hate is a guy that knows he's dead and drops a nade at his feet killing me afterwards.

Hmm, i'd say the worst are sword campers.
They simply sit in a corner, wait for a guy to run past - hit and then go back.

That and sniper spawn campers.

Still mp is awesome fun.

It isnt broken. Its who ever strikes first hits firs. If your strike at the same time whoever has more health wins.

Bl00dsmoke

why don't you actually check THIS out before you post such nonsense.

No it should be whoever has more health. I don't want melees to be a one-hit kill. Is it supposed to be the laser sword now?PhoebusFlows

Melee's have NEVER been a one hit kill unless it's an assassination. Why should the gamer who utilizes the melee system be penalized because the slower gamer hits his melee button a split second later?