So when is Bungie going to fix Halo 3 Melees?

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Mordred19

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#151 Mordred19
Member since 2007 • 8259 Posts

[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]No it should be whoever has more health. I don't want melees to be a one-hit kill. Is it supposed to be the laser sword now?Nedemis

Melee's have NEVER been a one hit kill unless it's an assassination. Why should the gamer who utilizes the melee system be penalized because the slower gamer hits his melee button a split second later?

... regardless of what weapon the first melee-er was holding. It's really messed up when a brute shot blade to the abdomen does ZERO DAMAGE.

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Nedemis

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#152 Nedemis
Member since 2002 • 10715 Posts

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

Donkey_Puncher

that makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Melees are a big part of the game and when you are in close combat situations, they are the determining factor in battles. Just because you don't use melees doesn't mean that it's cheap for other to. Skill has nothing to do with whether or not you use melees. The player that lacks skill solely relies on one strategy to win. The skilled player takes advantage of all forms of attacking their opponent.

What are the 3 big things in Halo according to Bungie? Guns, Grenades and Melees

seems as if Bungie considers them vital in the way the games played.

btw...if you feel that those of us who use melees are the ones that need to evolve, you're absolutely wrong. Melees weren't in the first FPS games and not until recently have they become standard. Maybe you're the one who needs to evolve, not us.

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Nedemis

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#153 Nedemis
Member since 2002 • 10715 Posts
[QUOTE="Nedemis"]

[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]No it should be whoever has more health. I don't want melees to be a one-hit kill. Is it supposed to be the laser sword now?Mordred19

Melee's have NEVER been a one hit kill unless it's an assassination. Why should the gamer who utilizes the melee system be penalized because the slower gamer hits his melee button a split second later?

... regardless of what weapon the first melee-er was holding. It's really messed up when a brute shot blade to the abdomen does ZERO DAMAGE.

if the person with the Brute shot melees second, it shouldn't do ANY damage because they should already be dead. :|
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Grive

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#154 Grive
Member since 2006 • 2971 Posts

To be honest, the only thing I hate in halo are the grenade whores. I don't really have a problem with Melee's. If there's one thing I hate is a guy that knows he's dead and drops a nade at his feet killing me afterwards.

Donkey_Puncher

I'm sure not everyone does it to whore. Almost all of my from the grave kills are 'nades I threw expecting them to help me win the battle, or grenade sticks before noticing the guy had the sword or something.

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GoldenGlove

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#155 GoldenGlove
Member since 2002 • 4699 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

DrinkDuff

eh, its there for a reason. Also, at close range a melee will beat out an average rifle round, so what is the point of "evolving" as a player if the melee is going to be more effective at the given time? Whether you like it or not, melee is part of the gameplay too, and we expect it to work as much as everything else in the game. The tie-breaker range is ridiculous. No one lags by one second, so why should the melee system need to compensate that much?

To be honest, I never noticed it until people started pointed it out. I was too busy killing people tha old fashioned way by SHOOTING them. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Sorry. :?

It doesn't happen very often but it is a little irritating when it does. And if you don't melee, someone else usually does and then you are dead. Shooting only works if you have enough distance between you and the oponent. Unfortunately, you don't always find yourself in open environments.

That's the most annoying part. If I sneak up on somebody and start shooting them because they see me at the last second and they are LAST to pull the trigger... so then they run towards me while I continue to shoot them and NOT die... Instead they just melee me and I die :|

How does that work?

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kazrium

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#156 kazrium
Member since 2006 • 1634 Posts
I was wondering what the hell was going on with melee in the game. I would hit someone and I would die even if I clearly hit them first. I thought at first it was possible lag on the server or something, but if that is the way they coded it then I agree it needs to be fixed asap.
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kazrium

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#157 kazrium
Member since 2006 • 1634 Posts
Also, I hope this is being posted in Bungies forums as well.
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Grive

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#158 Grive
Member since 2006 • 2971 Posts

That's the most annoying part. If I sneak up on somebody and start shooting them because they see me at the last second and they are LAST to pull the trigger... so then they run towards me while I continue to shoot them and NOT die... Instead they just melee me and I die :|

How does that work?

GoldenGlove

That situation shouldn't really happen under either set of rules (old or new). The melee is not a one-hit kill unless you're assasinated. So, that works through the other player being better than you, since you have two options:

H1 or H2: During that time you were shooting him, he was shooting you too, and he meleed you first mainly because he's better at calculating distances.

H3: During that time you were shooting him, and before he meleed you, he somehow dealt more damage to you than you to him, and you both meleed, or worse yet, only he meleed.

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rockydog1111

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#159 rockydog1111
Member since 2006 • 2079 Posts
They should leave it alone. They fix one thing and other stuff becomes broken ALA Gears of War.
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mistervengeance

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#160 mistervengeance
Member since 2006 • 6769 Posts
[QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

the system bungie implemented makes no sense when you logically work through the gameplay.

Grive

I was thinking about it, and I think I see both why it's not a bad idea, but why it's messed up.

Your general assesment is right. If both you and me are fighting, and you've got less health but manage to place a finishing blow before I do, you should be awarded a victory, and thus the system is broken.

However, the chance of lag (even the very small amounts present in ALL online games) can rear it's ugly head. As you and me both know, the melee moment of the battle is quick and deadly. So, maybe I did lunge before you did by a couple milliseconds, but you have a better connection to the host, and I ended up dying. So the idea behind H3's system is that in those circumstances, it can be considered a technical tie -we don't really know who went first, so we consider both to have hit at the exact same time. While both dying would be an acceptable solution, the health tiebreaker is not such a bad idea.

The problem is this: The time for this tie consideration is ridiculous. It's too large. At most, it should be around 200ms (a good reaction time for a normal human), and preferrably between 100-125ms. That time is long enough for lag not to be an issue on any decent connection, but short enough to make impossible to both react and have the melee sequence occur before the time expires.

I'd wager it's not such a bad compromise, and it should be easy to patch. I know it's not perfect, but I think it manages to fall in line with both keeping first-hit kill logic and allowing for bungie's desire for a fair result.

while you are absolutely right, once again this is no one but m$'s fault for using P2P networking instead of taking their millions of dollars from xbox live payments to buy and manage some dedicated servers.

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lawlessx

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#161 lawlessx
Member since 2004 • 48753 Posts

One of the biggest complaints of the game and Bungie won't even comment on it. I love Halo 3 but the melee system is completely broken and needs to be fixed.

(I am refering to how in a melee battle whoever has more health wins, instead of who strikes first)

Yay non-Ratchet and Clank thread.

Koolsen

its not broken

you need to deal damage BEFORE attacking with a melee

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II-FBIsniper-II

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#162 II-FBIsniper-II
Member since 2005 • 18067 Posts

Although we're paying close attention to it, melee is still causing folks a headache. The primary complaint is that the fellow with the most health wins the simultaneous melee strike. There are a couple of problems here. One is that the way this victory or loss is displayed on screen is aesthetically frustrating:

Situation: Two people melee almost simultaneously and one wins.

Display: One melee fails, then, a fraction of a second later, your opponent's, succeeds.

This looks worse than it is, sometimes because of network conditions. You'll have to take our word for it that in spite of the apparent gap in time and animation, the two strikes were effectively simultaneous. The problem is for most people that it looks bad and is dissatisfying. But we do appreciate the frustration this causes and we are looking into it. As many have noted, the alternative, host advantage, is not preferable.

There already working on it, thanks bungie.

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Mordred19

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#163 Mordred19
Member since 2007 • 8259 Posts
how messed up is this? I hit a guy with the Gravity hammer, and I see and hear it make contact with him, yet he shotguns me in the chest a split second later without a scratch on him. it must be connected to the messed up melee.
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peacenutman

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#164 peacenutman
Member since 2004 • 1772 Posts

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]MC can fall from space & survive but cant take a simple melee- strange?MikeB_74

melee is a last hit attack and should only only kill from full health if you hit from the back( which it does).

seriously why do u noobs want to downgrade the game ?

its perfect the way it is.

u all think being able to melee someone faster regardless of health is SKILL ? LOL

this is a fps and like all fps the shooting( who has better aim and who shoots first) is what counts. i guess your all very nub and slow aim ?

I know, people here are noobs, alwyas wants button mash the melee, that's why Halo mp is so noobish.

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peacenutman

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#165 peacenutman
Member since 2004 • 1772 Posts
[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"][QUOTE="mutenpika"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Taking on more damage than your opponent that you're down to such a fine line isn't something I would call all that skillful. It's more like a last ditch effort to try to get the cheap shot in after getting railed during a shot off. The new design should actually make you sit back and ponder your ability, not complain b/c what once worked like a saving grace has now been tweaked.

Like I said before, I don't agree with this concept that someone should be rewarded for getting in close at the expense of their health. It's reckless.

mutenpika

If you recklessly approach, you're just as open to melee attack as your opponent. Not to mention that the new system practically guaruntees a "first shot" win.

By your logic, the shotgun and mauler should be removed as well. Melees require you to get even closer, and even then do less damage. In the end they're a calculated aid and a balancer, not a reward for recklessness.

I know if you recklessly approach you're open for a melee, hence why I called it a reckless tactic.

"First shot" doesn't mean most damage. You can be hit first and still cause more damage over the course of a shoot off.

I never said melee should be "removed" anywhere in any post in this thread. And I don't consider the shotgun style guns last ditch efforts.

And I think the new melee design is more balanced.

I can't help but think that the theories you field are a little contradictory.

It's unskilled to approach and take damage like mad, just to win a fight (an objection you raised to my argument). Yet the shotgun style is just that, and there's no getting around it.

First shot almost always means most damage, the guns do too much damage for that not to be the case.

You never said they should be removed, but you keep stating they're skill-less methods that unbalance the game.

The new melee system just puts more of a physical "oomph" onto a firefight that's decided elsewhere, and prompts the melee-ers to get uncomfortably, unstrategically close in a situation that's already been decided with guns. Why not just finish it with guns in this system?

With your arguments, there's no reason to keep the melees in at all. They no longer serve any purpose whatsoever, except for stealth kills, which could be made context-sensitive!

No, he is not, I completely understand what he means.

I noticed that most people who complain here are meleers, who prefers melee instead of gunfight. As a gunslinger myself, I prefer Halo3 melee system way better, because I actaully have a chance to kill someone when my back is facing a wall or when I've being cornerd.

And to reply those "the more health = wins" statement is completely noobish, you can do so much things to turn the tide of battle, run away and hide to regain health, throw gernade at them, or switch/pickup a stronger weapon and shoot back, etc.

I'm not saying melee should be removed or anything, because they are necessary, like when you have no good guns or just out of ammo then it's the time to use melee, because you are desperate, you hope for a chance to kill someone before go find ammo/guns, just like real life.

Imagine in a real gun fight, when you got shot once, you don't go right out charging at the enemy, you only do that when you have being overruned or out of ammo.

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peacenutman

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#166 peacenutman
Member since 2004 • 1772 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

DrinkDuff

eh, its there for a reason. Also, at close range a melee will beat out an average rifle round, so what is the point of "evolving" as a player if the melee is going to be more effective at the given time? Whether you like it or not, melee is part of the gameplay too, and we expect it to work as much as everything else in the game. The tie-breaker range is ridiculous. No one lags by one second, so why should the melee system need to compensate that much?

To be honest, I never noticed it until people started pointed it out. I was too busy killing people tha old fashioned way by SHOOTING them. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Sorry. :?

It doesn't happen very often but it is a little irritating when it does. And if you don't melee, someone else usually does and then you are dead. Shooting only works if you have enough distance between you and the oponent. Unfortunately, you don't always find yourself in open environments.

Use shotgun, pistol, or gernade, that's why they are called "close range" weapons.:|

Seriously, is it so hard for people learn to use guns for a while instead of melee all the time?

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Slurms_M

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#167 Slurms_M
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts
[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

You shouldn't exactly be rewarded for taking on more damage just to get off a melee by a second or so.

I like the tweak personally.

wmc540

I honestly thought that this was a joke thread. I agree 100% with you. Why reward someone for taking more hits?

Because they were faster.

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DrinkDuff

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#169 DrinkDuff
Member since 2004 • 6762 Posts
[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

I have found no qualms with Halo 3's melee. I find the people that complain about this issue to be the people that rely on Gun butting to survive, alone.

If you're truly skilled at Halo, you don't rely on Gun gutting as a saving grace. You SHOOT them as the term FPS implies. Get over it, and learn to evolve as a player.

peacenutman

eh, its there for a reason. Also, at close range a melee will beat out an average rifle round, so what is the point of "evolving" as a player if the melee is going to be more effective at the given time? Whether you like it or not, melee is part of the gameplay too, and we expect it to work as much as everything else in the game. The tie-breaker range is ridiculous. No one lags by one second, so why should the melee system need to compensate that much?

To be honest, I never noticed it until people started pointed it out. I was too busy killing people tha old fashioned way by SHOOTING them. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Sorry. :?

It doesn't happen very often but it is a little irritating when it does. And if you don't melee, someone else usually does and then you are dead. Shooting only works if you have enough distance between you and the oponent. Unfortunately, you don't always find yourself in open environments.

Use shotgun, pistol, or gernade, that's why they are called "close range" weapons.:|

Seriously, is it so hard for people learn to use guns for a while instead of melee all the time?

Grenades are awful at close range, and you don't always have a pistol or shotgun. Even though there are close range weapons that can defeat melee easily, melee is still an integral part of close-combat.