Sony as a developer is pretty overrated.

Naughty Dog: Crash Bandicoot, Jak, Uncharted, Last of Us

Sucker Punch: Sly Cooper, Infamous

Media Molecule: Littlebigplanet, Tearaway, Dreams

GG: Killzone, Horizon Zero Dawn

Polyphony: Gran Turismo

Sony Japan: Too many to name

Dont forget closed studios like Zipper and Evolution who were big in the PS2/PS3 days....

And second party devs like Insomniac which Sony fully funded for Spyro, Ratchet, and Resistance games.

It's true many of the devs were once independent third parties, but Sony eventually bought them out and has always funded their games like they do now. The only thing that changed was that the studios became wholly owned subsidiaries of Sony.

How is this any different than third party companies making Gears of War or Halo...2 series that basically define the entire Xbox brand.

or Nintendo...some of their best exclusives in the NES/SNES era were made by third parties like Square Soft or Capcom...third party PUBLISHERS who funded and developed their own games without Nintendos help but still had their games exclusively on Nintendo platforms.

The Pokemon Company and Gamefreak are private, second party studios never owned by Nintendo. Many of Nintendos games this gen were made by second or third party studios: Devils Third, Fatal Frame V, Bayonetta 2, Pokken Tournament, Yoshis Wooly World, ZombiU, Super Smash Bros 4.

Remember Rareware? That company that Nintendo fanboys like to talk about nonstop for all those classics they made? Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong 64. Yup sorry they don't count either.

Done looking dumb yet or shall I go on?

oh and one of my favorite developers associated with Nintendo..and for a long time: Intelligent Systems, developers of Fire Emblem, Wars, and Paper Mario....not first party!

If thats a classic then so is Uncharted 4

3D Mario world metascore 93

Uncharted 4 metascore 93

so, shut up

You don't get it do you ?

There is a difference bewteen a publisher and a developer... It's simple. Why is it so hard to admit this? And what the hell are you losing if you admit this simple fact? gosh..

Why are you bringing CEO's into the discussion ? You are gonna have to draw the line somewhere.

Now a game can only be a classic if it does something different? Then I guess any other FPS after Wolfestein 3D cant be a "classic". Going by your logic then DOOM isnt a classic, or Halo, or CoD, or any other FPS...

Also, responding to your question: SotC. It did something other games havent done before. And its regarded as an old time classic by common opinion. Also Gran Turismo was the ground basis for racing simulation.

conclusion: Dont make a fool out of yourself

I like Naughty Dog but yeah they need to give players more variety. Every good game seems to be cinematic third person game from their first party studios.

@Cloud_imperium: "Every good game seems to be cinematic third person game from their first party studios."

Yeah why is God of War going this route?

Nintendo rarely have new IP ..... they always do milkingfest just like what FIFA did.

For me, a classic would simply be any game that's fondly remembered 10+ years from when it came out. It's the general feel of the gaming populace as a whole that you take away from discussions you have about video games (not something that can easily be known, nor something everyone would agree on). I wouldn't say it has anything to do with rating, or how groundbreaking it is.

Hard to gauge which games will be classics of the past few years, but surely we can all look back at last generation or the one before for instance, and see which games people still talk about and care about. Tons of games last generation got megahype and overinflated scores, but didn't leave a lasting impression on gaming overall.

I'd certainly throw a game like Shadow of the Colossus up there, and Gran Turismo myself.

Yes, classics are things that are considered to be influential for the gaming or genre that break some new ground in gaming. None of the Sony games can be attributed can be called influential or ground breaking. All of them were imitations of something great before them and most of the time cheap rip offs, as a matter of fact I'll go as far as and say that all of Sony's biggest franchises are rip off of something popular.

And you're factually wrong. Are you really telling me Gran Turismo wasnt influential or groundbreaking? SotC wasnt groundbreaking?

gtfo fanboy

Don't know about Gran Turismo as I was never a fan of racing games but I can safely bet that some racing game on the PC was far ahead than it ever was. As far as SOTC is concerned that is one hot piece of Japanese garbage with shitty controls and that girly man on a horse idiot. I mean how could someone call it great when it's the epitome of what's wrong with console 3D gaming. The controls sucks, the graphics sucks, the framerate sucks. How can anyone even play that garbage?

At first I was interested in seeing what they can do with god of war 4 after getting rid of fixed camera but now it seems like they are also dumbing down the gameplay itself and making it more scripted instead of being skill based.

Again, wrong. PC had some "simulation" racing games like indianapolis 500 and whatnot but it was Gran Turismo that released the ground basis for the consequential racing simulators that came after like rFactor, or iRacing or Forza (hell, even the guy at turn10 admited Gran Turismo was their main inspiration). Your opinion on SotC is irrelevant. The game is regarded by popular opinion as an all-time classic and nothing you say or feel can change that. Now deal with it.

Since, you are saying that PC already had simulation racing games before Gran Turismo, I highly doubt that it will be the one that break any ground in anything also because PC is the home of everything simulation but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until one of my hermit brother confirms it. Secondly, no SOTC was shit. No opinion can matter when it doesn't break any ground in gaming and when objectively the game suffers severe performance and controls issues. Whenever all the influential and big games will be mentioned SOTC won't be a part of it. SOTC is only remembered as a PS classic, you know the only thing somewhat interesting attempted by the Sony family instead of outrightedly copying popular franchises.

What Sony does is this, scope out whatever is "hip" in this case zombies, and then makes their own game of it.

Lets be serious here, Twilight Princess is in a whole nother league compared to SOTC or hell any PS2 action adventure.

OMG you're the most delusional lemming ever. Have you seen action adventure games like Tomb Raider after Uncharted came into play? They're practically a copy. To say that Uncharted didn't influence anything you have to be a delusional or brainless fanboy or both. Likewise no one in their right mind doubts the influence of Gran Turismo in the racing genre. Another is Demon's Souls that basically spanned a new type of western rpg, survival game hybrid with the Souls series. There was almost nothing like it before and it became popular thanks to Demon's Souls. Journey is a game that has influenced and inspired many artists too. I remember an interview with Bjork where she mentions that the game is an inspiration for her so they even go beyond the realm of gaming.

So get a clue delusional fanboy.

Quick question. If Evolution got closed (which is a shame they did) who made that Driveclub VR game ?

@R4gn4r0k: I dunno right? Like how dumb is Sony. How are they about to close Evolution and then 6 months later releases Driveclub for VR? lmao

There are no Second Party games, a game is either a 1st party title or 3rd party title. There is 2nd party developers though, and of course 1st and 3rd party devs...I didn't take Nya's word as law, but instead of arguing and educating, I was just playing along as I was curious to see where Nya was going once I had a bullet proof list even under his set of 'pretend' rules. His claims Sony didn't make games fell apart even under his own special umbrella of magic. He did attempt to change the discussion, but I stuck to the fundamental point and played along removing all titles he deemed unworthy, but the list included internally developed games. As I suspected, my final post including a newly created list of games under his created "Nya sanctions" was ignored and didn't go anywhere once I laid out a foundation; he moved on to other users. I admit, my approach was a different since I'm tired of the redundant "Come at me, BRO!" headbutting way of arguing in SW...especially for debates I've already had 1000x in the past 15 years and especially with newer users who missed out on the SW fun over the last decade like Nya. I spoke with many more users than Charizard on 1st party development across Sega, Nintendo, Xbox, and Playstation...and ventured even into Konami, Capcom, EA, Activision territory (publishers that have also outsourced).

Most people here are just trolling (meaning don't go to great lengths unless you're bored), then there are the respectable debaters (like Charizard became) where people can have a good conversation with, there are those that don't care one way or the other, and then there are those that are not interested in learning and decide to stay willfully ignorant despite all reason. I take these things into consideration when I post as I know almost everyone here. My approach is different depending on who I'm reasoning with and of course we have to deal with the limitations of this anonymous format. On the internet, a 14 year old = 50 year old, an industry insider = Automobile mechanic because we are only words on a screen. Obviously, Nya =/= Charizard in their approaches to engagement, so you can't expect me to approach them in the same way. People learn differently.

----

As far as classics, one might argue ICO, Everquest, Gran Turismo (it's seen better days, but I listed the first four), Shadow of the Colossus, Legend of Dragoon, Planetside, God of War, Twisted Metal: Black, and the MLB: The Show series which should be more than enough. I think The Last of Us will be considered a classic in the years to come as well.

Are they Mario tier? Maybe not, but it's not Mario or bust. Even then, I wouldn't confuse Classic with Innovation, because even my fave modern games (like Starcraft II, GeoW, MGS, etc) were built on earlier games.

A lot of my favorite franchises...

Mario, Street Fighter, Wolfenstein 3D, MegaMan, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Warrior/Quest, Dune 2, Shining Force, Metal Gear, Contra, Zelda, Doom, early Final Fantasy, Day of the Tentacle, Tetris, Pac-Man, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Diablo, Metroid, Shinobi, Double Dragon, Mortal Kombat, Various Disney like Aladdin/Lion King, Magic Carpet, Phantasy Star, Command & Conquer, Castlevania, etc.

...are older than the Playstation brand, so a new generation will have to decide how these modern, newer PS games (The Last of Us, The Last Guardian, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Infamous games, God of War 4, etc) fare as "classics". Same goes for all games releasing these days across PC-Nintendo-Xbox as well.

Cory Barlog a developer that worked on God of War 1 and 3, and who was the director of God of War II, came back to work for Sony and decided to take GOW in a new route.

I enjoyed GOW2, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

He's an idiot. He's always making a fool of himself in SW.

You'd think Sony skinned his cat with the way he constantly spews anti-Sony bullshit.

@brah4ever:

What are you talking about? ALL those Sony exclusives I mentioned still exist!

Uncharted 4

Twisted Metal ps3

(Soon to be) Gravity Rush 2

(Soon to be) God of War ps4

LittleBigPlanet 3 ps4

TearAway ps4

Ratchet and Clank ps4

Kill Zone Shadowfall

They're very much still active IP's.

@zeeshanhaider:

Uncharted and Last of Us greatly influenced Rise of the Tomb Raider. So in that way, those Sony exclusives have made a big influence on one of the most popular adventure game reboots. Uncharted might not have invented set pieces but they sure made them cool!

Also thanks to LittleBigPlanet, we got Super Mario Maker! Even the creators of Mario wished they invented LittleBigPlanet! God of War mostly fed off from Devil May Cry's success but they definitely raised the bar much further as far as expectations for hack and slash games go. Twisted Metal was the first and still one of the few vehicular combat games too.

So even if Sony exclusives didn't all add anything new, they all still helped the popularity for these genres soar new heights. And many new IP's will follow their example.

Well, you are stupid end of discussion.

You say that Activision developed Call of Duty?

@speedfog: If they own the studio that made the game then yes.

Your comment is an oxymoron, "if they own the studio that made the game yes"... That's an independent distinction between Activision and said studio, a subsidiary of Activision is not Activision, they are a completely company owned by Activision, big difference.

Totally agree. That was a dumb decision by Sony.

From all the closures, Liverpool and Evolution surprised me the most.

You haven't been able to say what is the big difference other than the way they pay taxes. Activision still owns them, makes decisions that affects them, calls the shots, they are their employees. You don't make any sense lem. I think you have your logic capacities broken due to butthurt at Sony destroying your xbone.

Uncharted.....ground breaking? So, what does it do that haven't been done a thousand times before? What ground did it break? The one thing UC is a copy of Tomb Raider and in Naughty Duds own words instructed by Sony to copy Gears of War. So, do some research before you start speaking. And neither does Demon Souls or Journey did anything new for gaming. All have been done before.

So, get a clue dumb cow. Oh and I'm not a lemming but you can continue with your charade.

So what you're saying is that there are no such thing as a classic since practically every game did stuff that others did before. There's no way to lack more sense and have a bigger cognitive dissonance than you. You're the Donald Trump of lemmings. And besides... I am a manticore, lem. TLHBO.

Fair enough.

As far as classics, one might argue ICO, Everquest, Gran Turismo (it's seen better days, but I listed the first four), Shadow of the Colossus, Legend of Dragoon, Planetside, God of War, Twisted Metal: Black, and the MLB: The Show series which should be more than enough. I think The Last of Us will be considered a classic in the years to come as well.

Are they Mario tier? Maybe not, but it's not Mario or bust. Even then, I wouldn't confuse Classic with Innovation, because even my fave modern games (like Starcraft II, GeoW, MGS, etc) were built on earlier games.

A lot of my favorite franchises...

Mario, Street Fighter, Wolfenstein 3D, MegaMan, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Warrior/Quest, Dune 2, Shining Force, Metal Gear, Contra, Zelda, Doom, early Final Fantasy, Day of the Tentacle, Tetris, Pac-Man, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Diablo, Metroid, Shinobi, Double Dragon, Mortal Kombat, Various Disney like Aladdin/Lion King, Magic Carpet, Phantasy Star, Command & Conquer, Castlevania, etc.

...are older than the Playstation brand, so a new generation will have to decide how these modern, newer PS games (The Last of Us, The Last Guardian, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Infamous games, God of War 4, etc) fare as "classics". Same goes for all games releasing these days across PC-Nintendo-Xbox as well.

I believe we differ on the definition of classics then. To me gaming classics are what shaped the landscape of gaming as we know today and were ground breaking for their times. To me Starcraft II, GeoW, MGS weren't classics. I guess, we agree that none of the games you originally listed were Mario tier so that ends the discussion.

So, what ground did they break? How you fight with a terribad framerate and controls? And if cows weren't acting like morons may be I wouldn't be so anti-Sony.

It's hard to compare, Sony has owned studios that make their first party games. I really don't think Sony themselves develop and publish anything inhouse.

But Jak and Daxter, Rachet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Twisted Metal, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ape Escape, God of War, StarHawk, Socom, Gran Turismo are all great franchises with some great games in them. And that's just off the top of my head.

@R4gn4r0k: they never should have greenlit driveclub. Not with polyphony making gran turismo games. Sony having an arcade racer and a realistic racer makes more sense than 2 realistic ones. But I guess the arcade genre is dying based on sales of the last couple motorstorm games so they felt they had no choice.

Not my fault that Sony haven't done anything innovated in gaming and always tried to copy the more famous franchises and often failed spectacularly at it. Oh and anyone who dickrides Sony and a member of the Sony cult is a cow. Hence you are a butthurt cow. And remain butthurt that you can't take hermits head on even though you love bragging about teh powah of Sony's pathetic plastic toys.

Lol I guess Sony murdered your family or something cause I've never seen someone cry so much. And I game on PC more than anywhere else FYI. Now go back to sleep butthurt lem. TLHBO.

Truth hurts and I have already outlined the criteria for someone to be considered a cow. But why are so afraid to be called a cow? I thought you Sony drones were proud to be a part of the cult. Embrace it cow.

So true...no good games and lost all of their exclusives. Ouch, 2016 is a year to NOT remember for Sony.

Are you talking about Microsoft?

No, I was talking about Sony Corporation (ソニー株式会社 Sonī Kabushiki Gaisha^?, commonly referred to as Sony and stylized as SONY/ˈsoʊni/)

But it seems more appropriate for Microsoft currently

But it seems more appropriate for Sony currently, which is why I said it.

M$ lost mostly all of its exclusives to PC

Didn't know you could play UC4 on PC

Yeah....little league.

BAM!!!

$ony lost mostly all of its exclusives to PS Pro as of November 10th, and mostly all of it's PS3 exclusives to PC.

Completely agree. But I think I know why Sony/Evolution did Driveclub: they wanted to have a racing game on launch. That is something Playstation consoles always had: a racing game on launch.

With polyphony's slow development, it was up to Evolution to make a realistic racer. But of course we all know what happend: numerous delays.

Yeah, I would've killed for a current gen Motorstorm. I love motorstorm !

But it was just: on PS3 Motorstorm games launched in such quick succession, that they kinda ate up their own market > hence lower sales.

But PS Pro and PS4 are the same thing

But Xbox One and PC are the same thing