Sony is in violation of bait and switch marketing

what are we talking about here? I have a PS3 Fatty also so what's going on?

Edit: Thanks for the link...I don't think this will effect me but that sucks for those who it will

what are we talking about here? I have a PS3 Fatty also so what's going on?

chikenfriedrice

a ps3 firmware will release soon that will not allow you to install other OS's (Linux) on the system

what are we talking about here? I have a PS3 Fatty also so what's going on?

chikenfriedrice

Apparently Sony is removing the capability to install Linux on older PS3 models as it represents a security risk. Someone managed to develop a work around through the Linux software to run pirated software on the PS3.

Seems logical to me. I can't imagine the lure of using Linux on the PS3 when the computer does it so much better. TC - at least you have BC. They can't take that away.

Damn I knew people used Linux but I didn't know it was that many. Don't Sony have that share site where you can give them ideas and tell them what you want or not want, maybe if enough people tells them to keep it maybe Sony will keep it.

Sounds crummy, but I don't see it as a huge deal. What's the advantage of using a different OS? Maybe Sony didn't have a choice because of hackers.

way too many couch lawyers. How stupid would Sony be if it left the door open for their system to be exploited? You want them to keep that feature enabled to allow further development of hacks to compromise the system so that piracy goes crazy just like it did for the PSP? And that is what you say is illegal?hiryu3

if someone uses a feature will ill intent, then its illegal... but there is nothing wrong with the feature itself

it pretty much screws the (few) ps3 owners with linux installed just to kill any attempts at piracy....

You don't have to install the new firmware, but you won't be able to access the psn. The TOS for the PSN states they can alter it at anytime, meaning if you want access to it, you have to get the new firmware.

If you download the new firmware in spite of this, you have no ground to stand on in court.

The people against this are probably the ones that want to buy pirated games. Some just want Linux because they have been using it.

Personally, I believe that if they are going to remove a feature, well they better give one in return. Why the hell would anyone want to downgrade?

Section 11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES of the Playstation Network Terms of Service Halfway through the paragraph reads… "Such content or service may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at [link struck to avoid moderation] You authorize SCEA to provide such content and services and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or services or maintenance services" They had their asses covered in the user agreement all along for exactly this sort of thing, it seems.

eh, i don't really see the big deal, but i've never had any motivation to install other OS on my PS3. stinks for linux users, i guess.

Section 11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES of the Playstation Network Terms of Service Halfway through the paragraph reads… "Such content or service may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at [link struck to avoid moderation] You authorize SCEA to provide such content and services and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or services or maintenance services" They had their asses covered in the user agreement all along for exactly this sort of thing, it seems.

SteveTabernacle

Yes, yes and yes. I hope this makes them reconsider this stupid stupid move.RedruM_I

Yes, yes and yes. I hope this makes them reconsider this stupid stupid move.RedruM_I

Looks like you are really unhappy with sony today.......

Oh well, I guess it is for a legitimate reason. Wasn't linux a useful feature, for coding, and things like that??

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"]Yes, yes and yes. I hope this makes them reconsider this stupid stupid move.Hahadouken

In all my years owning a PS3 I have only known 1 person who used Linux on it, and it was just to try it out. This feature affects a tiny, tiny fraction of people, yet I'm sure SW will swarm with guys who "are selling their PS3s now that you can't use Linux" (while failing to mention that you can't run third-party OS' on anyone else's system either). Should be some lulz. Omg without Linux the PS3 is crap, it's all I bought my PS3 for, I can see it now. :PHahadouken

The thing is, there are many people who own PS3's. Even a small percentage is still a lotof people.

It's just like patcher's comment (only 10% of PC's are faster than the PS3)......

But with your last point. I agree, there will be lulz.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="RedruM_I"]Yes, yes and yes. I hope this makes them reconsider this stupid stupid move.RedruM_I

Can you run 3ds max on PS3?

The people against this are probably the ones that want to buy pirated games. Some just want Linux because they have been using it.

Personally, I believe that if they are going to remove a feature, well they better give one in return. Why the hell would anyone want to downgrade?

RadecSupreme

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

The people against this are probably the ones that want to buy pirated games. Some just want Linux because they have been using it.

Personally, I believe that if they are going to remove a feature, well they better give one in return. Why the hell would anyone want to downgrade?

Hahadouken

To be honest, we know how paranoid sony are about piracy. Sony BMG CD's and SecuROM, anyone?

[QUOTE="hiryu3"]way too many couch lawyers. How stupid would Sony be if it left the door open for their system to be exploited? You want them to keep that feature enabled to allow further development of hacks to compromise the system so that piracy goes crazy just like it did for the PSP? And that is what you say is illegal?Origami_Kill3r

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"]Yes, yes and yes. I hope this makes them reconsider this stupid stupid move.siddhu33

Looks like you are really unhappy with sony today.......

Oh well, I guess it is for a legitimate reason. Wasn't linux a useful feature, for coding, and things like that??

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

The people against this are probably the ones that want to buy pirated games. Some just want Linux because they have been using it.

Personally, I believe that if they are going to remove a feature, well they better give one in return. Why the hell would anyone want to downgrade?

siddhu33

To be honest, we know how paranoid sony are about piracy. Sony BMG CD's and SecuROM, anyone?

this is definitely an unfortunate choice on Sony's part. Although I never planned on using this feature, any person that uses the"other OS" feature gets downgraded. However, with my limited knowledge on the subject, I do not find this being a bait and switch tactic.

[QUOTE="Origami_Kill3r"][QUOTE="hiryu3"]way too many couch lawyers. How stupid would Sony be if it left the door open for their system to be exploited? You want them to keep that feature enabled to allow further development of hacks to compromise the system so that piracy goes crazy just like it did for the PSP? And that is what you say is illegal?GeneralButt

The people against this are probably the ones that want to buy pirated games. Some just want Linux because they have been using it.

Personally, I believe that if they are going to remove a feature, well they better give one in return. Why the hell would anyone want to downgrade?

RadecSupreme

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"][QUOTE="Hahadouken"] Did you seriously use Linux on your PS3? Seriously?siddhu33

Can you run 3ds max on PS3?

And damn rights, I say. The DRM wasn't the best way to go about it, and everyone rightfully jumped down their throats, but if they have to spite a tiny, tiny fraction of a userbase to keep their console from being widely pirated like PS2 and PSP, then more power to them. It's disgraceful to see such rampant piracy. I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a gamer and habitually steal from developers. Piracy takes away the only revenue stream these games have. It's not like stealing music, where the artist still has a half-dozen other ways of making money (live shows, appearances, hosting gigs, merchandise etc.)Hahadouken

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

[QUOTE="GeneralButt"]

[QUOTE="Origami_Kill3r"] The hack is nothing like psps. It requires the users to have hardware intelligence open there ps3 and modd from there. Plus the hack didnt = piracy. It meant linix could be fully unlockedOrigami_Kill3r

[QUOTE="siddhu33"]

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"] Yes I use it and not only for entertainment, the feature is important for the stuff I work on (having to program for the Cell architecture). It was actually one of things I liked more of my PS3.RedruM_I

Can you run 3ds max on PS3?

Is it a decent replacement for a blade server?

How many people use Linux on their PS3? I had Yellow Dog on my PS3 for awhile before I realized how pointless it was, I mean come on you could play all of two games on it. I mean you can't even play Starcraft one on it! The problem is Sony locks the use of the RSX on Linux, so linux can't tap into the graphic processor, which makes me a sad panda. On the other hand, this might effect people who mod their PS3 into super computers using multiple ps3 and another OS, in that case I suppose I would be pissed too.Diviniuz

Those consoles are probably not even connected to the internet and no one play games on them ;)

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"][QUOTE="siddhu33"]

Can you run 3ds max on PS3?

siddhu33

Is it a decent replacement for a blade server?

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

siddhu33

? Explain that. The only "ridiculous" DRM I have seen so far is Ubi's DRM for Assassin's Creed II. How is putting in anti-piracy protection a justification for piracy?

I don't buy used games either. I would be a hypocrite since the industry signs my pay checks. I don't even trade games in if I respect the dev.

People don't seem to realize this is not the film or music industry. These companies can't take rock star hits like that. It's the one industry I can think of that piracy can actually bankrupt.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

And damn rights, I say. The DRM wasn't the best way to go about it, and everyone rightfully jumped down their throats, but if they have to spite a tiny, tiny fraction of a userbase to keep their console from being widely pirated like PS2 and PSP, then more power to them. It's disgraceful to see such rampant piracy. I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a gamer and habitually steal from developers. Piracy takes away the only revenue stream these games have. It's not like stealing music, where the artist still has a half-dozen other ways of making money (live shows, appearances, hosting gigs, merchandise etc.)siddhu33

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

Used games and pirated games are not the same thing. Buying a used game is not a form of stealing. I do agree that new releases should not be back on the used game market so quickly, but that's more of the fault of the developer and not the store. If developers produce a game worth keeping, you will see people hanging onto their copies.

It amazing that people always point the finger at stores like Gamestop and other retailers without looking at the other side. Sony and other companies are looking at increasingly insane methods to discourage used games from being played on their systems. Maybe its the quality of these games that are leading people to return them for store credit. What do people expect Gamestop to do? Withhold used copies of a new release for six months?

Here's the difference between piracy and used games. With used games, the developer and publisher get their money with the original purchase. With piracy, the developer and publishers never see a cent for their effort. Its outright stealing, and fundamentally no different than walking into a store and shoplifting the game.

[QUOTE="siddhu33"]

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

Hahadouken

? Explain that. The only "ridiculous" DRM I have seen so far is Ubi's DRM for Assassin's Creed II. How is putting in anti-piracy protection a justification for piracy?

I don't buy used games either. I would be a hypocrite since the industry signs my pay checks. I don't even trade games in if I respect the dev.

People don't seem to realize this is not the film or music industry. These companies can't take rock star hits like that. It's the one industry I can think of that piracy can actually bankrupt.

This is not bait and switch. You paid $600 the first year PS3 was out. It's now been four years and the system is $300. People who are first time owners are buying not your systems capabilities anymore.

I don't think buying a used game is stealing too. If a store has the game it's already been paid for. Renting and reselling used games is the stores business.

[QUOTE="siddhu33"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

And damn rights, I say. The DRM wasn't the best way to go about it, and everyone rightfully jumped down their throats, but if they have to spite a tiny, tiny fraction of a userbase to keep their console from being widely pirated like PS2 and PSP, then more power to them. It's disgraceful to see such rampant piracy. I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a gamer and habitually steal from developers. Piracy takes away the only revenue stream these games have. It's not like stealing music, where the artist still has a half-dozen other ways of making money (live shows, appearances, hosting gigs, merchandise etc.)caryslan2

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

Used games and pirated games are not the same thing. Buying a used game is not a form of stealing. I do agree that new releases should not be back on the used game market so quickly, but that's more of the fault of the developer and not the store. If developers produce a game worth keeping, you will see people hanging onto their copies.

It amazing that people always point the finger at stores like Gamestop and other retailers without looking at the other side. Sony and other companies are looking at increasingly insane methods to discourage used games from being played on their systems. Maybe its the quality of these games that are leading people to return them for store credit. What do people expect Gamestop to do? Withhold used copies of a new release for six months?

Here's the difference between piracy and used games. With used games, the developer and publisher get their money with the original purchase. With piracy, the developer and publishers never see a cent for their effort. Its outright stealing, and fundamentally no different than walking into a store and shoplifting the game.

[QUOTE="siddhu33"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

And damn rights, I say. The DRM wasn't the best way to go about it, and everyone rightfully jumped down their throats, but if they have to spite a tiny, tiny fraction of a userbase to keep their console from being widely pirated like PS2 and PSP, then more power to them. It's disgraceful to see such rampant piracy. I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a gamer and habitually steal from developers. Piracy takes away the only revenue stream these games have. It's not like stealing music, where the artist still has a half-dozen other ways of making money (live shows, appearances, hosting gigs, merchandise etc.)caryslan2

But why such levels of ridiculous protection? All that is going to do, is get people not to buy games, and pirate in the first place. Unfortunately, this is a vicious circle, that is pretty difficult to stop.

Another problem with this, is the inclusion of Used game sales. That is also taking a load of revenue from games in the first place also, and yet it is not considered stealing (not a pirate, just want a decent conversational debate, i.e. what do you think?)

Used games and pirated games are not the same thing. Buying a used game is not a form of stealing. I do agree that new releases should not be back on the used game market so quickly, but that's more of the fault of the developer and not the store. If developers produce a game worth keeping, you will see people hanging onto their copies.

It amazing that people always point the finger at stores like Gamestop and other retailers without looking at the other side. Sony and other companies are looking at increasingly insane methods to discourage used games from being playd on their systems. Maybe its the quality of these games that are leading people to return them for store credit. What do people expect Gamestop to do? Withhold used copies of a new release for six months?

Here's the difference between piracy and used games. With used games, the developer and publisher get their money with the original purchase. With piracy, the developer and publishers never see a cent for their effort. Its outright stealing, and fundamentally no different than walking into a store and shoplifting the game.

And with rubbish DRM, nobody wins. The consumer loses, as they will have to resort to, what is effectively "stealing" to get a decent experience (i.e. not getting their hardware messed up while playing a game, or even after the game playing itself), and the Company loses, as they lose a load of money.