I seriously think the only one doing the jumping will be the executive that is banking on Wii owners moving to PS3 because of Move.....jumping off a cliff.darthogrelol, I agree. Everyone has been predicting the end of the Wii "fad" since day one. Its pretty clear its going no where.
Sony: We expect Wii owners to jump ship to PS3 with move. *better source*
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] once again i see america does not matter even though the consoles have not sold higher in any other country in the world. the funny thing is disney's biggest in the states. evidence is better then nonesurrealnumber5What evidence? You spoke of a study which, for all we know, took part in a particular area where Mario is advertised like crazy. you dont live in america how would you know? is it the same way you know all wii owners are foaming from the mouth retards that dont even know the games they buy? for someone attempting to sound intelligent you sure do make a lot of baseless assumptions Im not making any assumptions - that's the whole point XD. My argument for the 5 posts has been how neither of us can claim victory over the other as it's almost impossible to prove whether the average wii owner knows about Mario or not. From the 'anecdotal evidence' Ive witnessed, my opinion is that most wii owners probably don't know hence why I used the word doubt in my first post - but im more than willing to accept that I may be wrong. Lastly, I never called any group retards. What I've been arguing is that it is likely that alot of people have bought the wii for wii play but otherwise prefer to stick to their main hobbies. I'm not entirely sure how you've come to the conclusion that anyone who does not have video games as their primary hobby is 'foaming from the mouth'.
And people doubt that Sony is arrogant.
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"] My cousin got a Wii for her son a couple years ago, she didn't even know it was made by Nintendo until I told her. Most of my family don't know that either, its just the little white box that play Wii Sports. Indie_Hitmanyou know what they say about anecdotal evidence... But there's no evidence to suggest that the average wii owner does know about Mario either. I can't whether you or I am right, but you need to be a little more open minded to the possibility that millions of families have bought the wii for wii play, either through advertisement or word of mouth, and have no intention of buying anything else for it. Why do you think the attach ratio is so low. What proportion of wii owners this applies to however, neither of us are at liberty to say.
last i checked, the Wii's attach rate was around the same as the ps3... that whole 'wii owners dont buy game's is as antiquated as 'ps3 doesnt have any games'
if you would actually bother to check sales, you would see that you are wrong...
also, Mario has been around for quite a while ... it would make more sense to assume that people DO know him, instead of assuming the opposite with no proof of any kind... is that not logical?
But there's no evidence to suggest that the average wii owner does know about Mario either. I can't whether you or I am right, but you need to be a little more open minded to the possibility that millions of families have bought the wii for wii play, either through advertisement or word of mouth, and have no intention of buying anything else for it. Why do you think the attach ratio is so low. What proportion of wii owners this applies to however, neither of us are at liberty to say.[QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"][QUOTE="ogvampire"] you know what they say about anecdotal evidence... ogvampire
last i checked, the Wii's attach rate was around the same as the ps3... that whole 'wii owners dont buy game's is as antiquated as 'ps3 doesnt have any games'
if you would actually bother to check sales, you would see that you are wrong...
also, Mario has been around for quite a while ... it would make more sense to assume that people DO know him, instead of assuming the opposite with no proof of any kind... is that not logical?
QED s been around for decades but the vast majority of people will not have heard ofit, so no Its not necessarily the most logical choice, and even if it was, you couldnt confirm with certainty thats its true. Same attach ratio as PS3? XD When did you last check? 07? Last June Wii was at roughly 3.3, PS3 was at 7.9 and 360 was at 8.4. In addition, once again words are being put in my mouth. Where did I say noone with a wii buys games? It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million. What I am arguing is that I wouldn't doubt that many wii owners dont buy more than wii play/fit. Yes, many millions do buy a multitude of games for wii, and yes, a very large number of people would have bought the wii for the key franchises. But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbase?
[QUOTE="supa_badman"]
Maybe, I mean, there are A LOT of weak-minded gamers and go on to the next stupid gimmick.
ogvampire
interesting how people with 'different opinions' are 'weak-minded' to you...
Nah, motion control is dumb. Sure, you could prefer motion control, but if you take that as a core experience then you haven't it's obvious you don't know much about gaming or are just fascinated by small things.I'm shocked people can't understand this. If casuals were swayed by graphics they'd have purchased PS3/360. They are not. They are swayed by 1) COST. 2) Hype for something innovative. Don't believe me? Think of the original iPhone. When it came out it was like nothing else. Yet it still sold slowly because of it's high price. Fast forward a year, you have the iPhone 3G come out. With a new lower price + app store and the thing freaking exploded. The PS Move could end up costing double the price of a Wii, and from the casuals point of view, honestly offers nothing new. Compare this to Natal which could end up being bundled for the same price as a Wii and offers a completely different way to play games and I think it's clear which one will have the better odds of people jumping ship and purchasing. The PS Move might be the best option for hardcore gamers out of all 3, but the problem is, hardcore gamers want controllers. Unless Sony shows something at E3 that blows away what can be done on the Wii, I just don't see how it can succeed. Natal as it stands now has far greater odds of success.So let me get this straight, a wii owner is going to spend 300 dollars for a new console, 100 for the starter pack, whatever it costs for another Move Controller, just to get games in HD? If they wanted HD, they would have bought a PS3 or a 360 instead of a wii. I think its very clear the wii gamer dosent care about graphics.
XboximusPrime
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"] But there's no evidence to suggest that the average wii owner does know about Mario either. I can't whether you or I am right, but you need to be a little more open minded to the possibility that millions of families have bought the wii for wii play, either through advertisement or word of mouth, and have no intention of buying anything else for it. Why do you think the attach ratio is so low. What proportion of wii owners this applies to however, neither of us are at liberty to say.Indie_Hitman
last i checked, the Wii's attach rate was around the same as the ps3... that whole 'wii owners dont buy game's is as antiquated as 'ps3 doesnt have any games'
if you would actually bother to check sales, you would see that you are wrong...
also, Mario has been around for quite a while ... it would make more sense to assume that people DO know him, instead of assuming the opposite with no proof of any kind... is that not logical?
QED s been around for decades but the vast majority of people will not have heard ofit, so no Its not necessarily the most logical choice, and even if it was, you couldnt confirm with certainty thats its true. Same attach ratio as PS3? XD When did you last check? 07? Last June Wii was at roughly 3.3, PS3 was at 7.9 and 360 was at 8.4. In addition, once again words are being put in my mouth. Where did I say noone with a wii buys games? It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million. What I am arguing is that I wouldn't doubt that many wii owners dont buy more than wii play/fit. Yes, many millions do buy a multitude of games for wii, and yes, a very large number of people would have bought the wii for the key franchises. But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbase?link to that attach ratio claim...
"It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million"
so youre saying that the average wii owner doesnt know who mario is... yet the Wii has at least 5 multi-million sellers with mario in it
"But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbase?"
um... thats a 20% attach rate. look at the software ratio for the ps2, ps3, and 360 and tell me how many of their games have an attach ratio greater than even 15%... answer: very very few
im convinced you have no clue what youre talking about
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="supa_badman"]
Maybe, I mean, there are A LOT of weak-minded gamers and go on to the next stupid gimmick.
supa_badman
interesting how people with 'different opinions' are 'weak-minded' to you...
Nah, motion control is dumb. Sure, you could prefer motion control, but if you take that as a core experience then you haven't it's obvious you don't know much about gaming or are just fascinated by small things.hm... quite a view on reality you got there
youre not really proving a point as much as making gamers look completely ignorant... great job with that
not happening, Wii owners aren't gonna jump from one failboat to another.
Not sure why but this made me :lol: pretty damned hardnot happening, Wii owners aren't gonna jump from one failboat to another.
samuraiguns
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"] QED s been around for decades but the vast majority of people will not have heard ofit, so no Its not necessarily the most logical choice, and even if it was, you couldnt confirm with certainty thats its true. Same attach ratio as PS3? XD When did you last check? 07? Last June Wii was at roughly 3.3, PS3 was at 7.9 and 360 was at 8.4. In addition, once again words are being put in my mouth. Where did I say noone with a wii buys games? It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million. What I am arguing is that I wouldn't doubt that many wii owners dont buy more than wii play/fit. Yes, many millions do buy a multitude of games for wii, and yes, a very large number of people would have bought the wii for the key franchises. But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbase?Indie_Hitmanlink to that attach ratio claim... " It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million so youre saying that the average wii owner doesnt know who mario is... yet the Wii has at least 5 multi-million sellers with mario in it " But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbas um... thats a 20% attach rate. look at the software ratio for the ps2, ps3, and 360 and tell me how many of their games have an attach ratio greater than even 15%... answer: very very few im convinced you have no clue what youre talking about Yes, well done. We've established that the wii has some very strong selling mario games. But you havn't disproven anything I've said. 20% of the wii population has bought a mario game, but here's the clincher. You see, when dealing with statistics, 20% usually represents the minority as opposed to it's counter part, 80%, which represents the majority. Now, what this means is that 80%, have NOT bought a Mario game. Why they have not, neither of us can say. Perhaps they don't like Mario, perhaps they've never heard of Mario. How can anyone possibly say with certainty that the majority of wii owners know about Mario? How? I don't know why you've brought other consoles into this - they're irrelevant.
Using your logic, how can anyone say for certain that they DON'T know about Mario? This is a pointless, circular argument.
[QUOTE="samuraiguns"]Not sure why but this made me :lol: pretty damned hard LOL me too, I imagined someone jumping from one sinking ship to another. Im not a fan of Motion controls but I've got to admit 100$ or less for the move wand, eye toy camera, sony nun chuck and one game is a great value. If they sell move bundled with socom 4, at a similar price range i'd be tempted to try it out.not happening, Wii owners aren't gonna jump from one failboat to another.
blue_hazy_basic
Yes, well done. We've established that the wii has some very strong selling mario games. But you havn't disproven anything I've said.i would love to disprove you claim, but you have to first prove YOUR claim... since you started this, remember? you have shown nothing but speculation and false facts.
20% of the wii population has bought a mario game, but here's the clincher. You see, when dealing with statistics, 20% usually represents the minority as opposed to it's counter part, 80%, which represents the majority. Now, what this means is that 80%, have NOT bought a Mario game.Why they have not, neither of us can say. Perhaps they don't like Mario, perhaps they've never heard of Mario.
exactly, WE DONT KNOW for sure... so why did you make that claim in the first place? :|
How can anyone possibly say with certainty that the majority of wii owners know about Mario? How? I don't know why you've brought other consoles into this - they're irrelevant.
Indie_Hitman
I don't think the average Wii owner even knows about Move. Also I doubt the casuals care if Move is a superior motion control, they will probably just keep on playing Wii Fit and Wii Sports on their Wii.
[QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"][QUOTE="ogvampire"] link to that attach ratio claim... " It would certainly kill my argument if I did as Mario Galaxy alone sold several million so youre saying that the average wii owner doesnt know who mario is... yet the Wii has at least 5 multi-million sellers with mario in it " But what is 10 million in sales when you're considering a 50 million strong userbas um... thats a 20% attach rate. look at the software ratio for the ps2, ps3, and 360 and tell me how many of their games have an attach ratio greater than even 15%... answer: very very few im convinced you have no clue what youre talking about jimkabrhelYes, well done. We've established that the wii has some very strong selling mario games. But you havn't disproven anything I've said. 20% of the wii population has bought a mario game, but here's the clincher. You see, when dealing with statistics, 20% usually represents the minority as opposed to it's counter part, 80%, which represents the majority. Now, what this means is that 80%, have NOT bought a Mario game. Why they have not, neither of us can say. Perhaps they don't like Mario, perhaps they've never heard of Mario. How can anyone possibly say with certainty that the majority of wii owners know about Mario? How? I don't know why you've brought other consoles into this - they're irrelevant. Using your logic, how can anyone say for certain that they DON'T know about Mario? This is a pointless, circular argument. I know, that's what I'm saying! Sorry If I've worded my posts badly but this is precisely what I'm saying. XD.
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"]Yes, well done. We've established that the wii has some very strong selling mario games. But you havn't disproven anything I've said.i would love to disprove you claim, but you have to first prove YOUR claim... since you started this, remember? you have shown nothing but speculation and false facts. 20% of the wii population has bought a mario game, but here's the clincher. You see, when dealing with statistics, 20% usually represents the minority as opposed to it's counter part, 80%, which represents the majority. Now, what this means is that 80%, have NOT bought a Mario game.Why they have not, neither of us can say. Perhaps they don't like Mario, perhaps they've never heard of Mario. exactly, WE DONT KNOW for sure... so why did you make that claim in the first place?:| How can anyone possibly say with certainty that the majority of wii owners know about Mario? How? I don't know why you've brought other consoles into this - they're irrelevant. Indie_HitmanI never made a claim in the first place. I gave an opinion - that I doubt the average wii owner knows what Mario or Zelda are. I think maybe this has just been a case of misunderstanding. Doesn't matter, discussions always healthy :D
i think youre right... at least it was entertaining
[QUOTE="Mario1331"]are you buying the move tho?thats the point of this thread not if your buying a wii again...
foxhound_fox
If the games warrant the additional input, then of course. The only game I have played on the Wii that I thought truly benefited from the Wiimote motion controls was Excite Truck (and by extension, Excite Bots). Everything else has just been a more time-consuming alternative to button pushing. Move looks like it could actually utilize the power of the PS3 and give us some actual reason to replace button pushing with motion controls (the archery demonstration for instance being utilized in a game like TESIV: Oblivion).
its hd waggle though no matter how you put it thats really a cheap shot if your saying move looks innovative
[QUOTE="Mario1331"][QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"] So you honestly think all these sheep -old people, socialites and whatnot, you really think theyre gonna have paid attention and know what these franchises are? They will undoubtedly have bought it for wii play/ fit. Maybe its only a minority that dont know, but people have bought the wii just for that.Indie_Hitman
you really need to go out more if you believe this mario is a household name my sister even knows zelda and shes 15 and into shopping your really misinformed
Shes 15, she has a brother who enjoys video games - She's far more likely to have heard about Mario than someone like my dad, uncles, aunties who all own wii but do not know about Mario. Why should they? Theyve had jobs, had more interesting hobbies. Surely the argument 'you need to go out more' would apply to someone who thinks everyone plays video games and have just as much knowledge as them? Im not necessarily saying you're wrong though. I think you misunderstood my argument. I'm merely arguing that the average wii owner PROBABLY does not know about Mario - Taking into account the key reason why wii has sold so exceptionally well.oh ok gotcha this is true however kids can tell their parents about mario, mario has more then just games theirs merchandise,an old movie,etc to make it well known your maybe right about a lot of wii owners dont know about mario but im pretty sure thats one of the only reason many people bought the wii and the excellent fitness games that really do give you a workout
i will certainly go to sony ps3 when move comes out, wii is a joke and sales of core games, and yes they are good, prove that wii is finished. razu2444
I'm not sure your thoughts would make sense even if your sentence did.
There are a few games that use motion controls to enhance the gaming experience, but the majority of games on Wii do not. What that really means is that developers have not figured out how to use motion controls effectively, even after 4 years. What games will be available on the PS3 to change the minds of gamers when such games as Tiger Woods 10, Grandslam Tennis, Shattered Memories, No More Heroes 2, Lost Winds, etc. have not convinced the HD faithful that motion controls have a place in gaming?
At the same time, Wii owners would have to abandon their current game library, and soon to be released titles such as Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter Tri, Metroid Other M, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Zelda Wii, etc. That is something Wii gaming faithful will have a hard time doing. (quoted poster not withstanding)
IMO by the time motion controlers like Move and Natal have meaningful developer support, Nintendo will release a new console and the HD advantage PS3 or 360 currently have will be a moot point.
The 'average' Wii owner (i.e. people who have a Wii and aren't reading a forum like this) don't care. They have their motion controlled game system and probably have invested a good amount of money in controllers and accessories. Sony and Microsoft are going to fall flat on their faces trying to chase a market Nintendo has completely cornered.
Right because they have teh Mario and Zelda? To me the avearge Nintendo consumer is:
"Wow the PSmove, it looks like the Wiimote + nunchuck but without my favorite games"
Havent exactly met a Wii owner excited about blu ray
Modern_Unit
/thread
sony should concentrate on geting out Sly3 and Paying kojima to get his lazy ass to do ZoE3
threads on move and natal need to stop now theres 3 threads on this matter asking which wil lbe better etc etc
simple answer , they are not going to be better then wii ,because they dont have much ready for it and they are add ons wii mote is standard with some additional adapters you got your move ,, its already confirmed that the move is a wiimotion plus knockoff ,
plus nearly 70 million already own a wii some have the other consoles for other types of games using wii as a party system etc
i doubt that same 70 million is gonna jump ship i know i cant iown all 3 already theres no jumping ship here
and i support ms and nintendo more , because they offer more bang for the buck ,
dont even start on bluray which take up less then 5 percent of shelve space at walmart and cost up to 40 whilst the most expensive dvd is 20 ,
and the fact i already have most if not all the movies i liked when i was young , and i dont even like half the new ones to begin with take twilight for example , they rushed the 2nd one out so fast i didnt even see the first yet hense why i dont like half these new ones,
im not spending 20 even 60 on a movie i hadnt seen yet,
no thanks,
sony just keeps making mistake after mistake forcements 1 after the other , for example buying games on compact disc -out side pc
then come dvd , then bluray which we know holds 50 gigs but most of it is used by graphics/cinema scense not used by maps etc the more important things, , perfect dark a n64 cart or xbla download has more maps and guns and custom options then any ps3 game todate , ,
Er casuals wont be enjoying zelda. They will be enjoying Wii sports and wii fits. Yeah I have my doubts about "the casuals" appreciation of good games. Any thing over a 5 minute burst would put them off I reckon and a good chunk of the people who might enjoy Moves features in games will probably be put off by the price tag.[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]
Casuals don't care. They won't care that Move is one milasecond better than the Wii motion +. They Will be enjoying Zelda Wii Motion plus while Sony releases games for Move that would be lucky to be half as good as it.
brennan7777
If people are stupid enough to buy a Wii just for the motion control gimmick, Sony should easily be able to persuade them to get move. As far as I know, Sony is seen as a symbol of quality. And the PS2 did crazy well, even with casuals. So no, they won't have any idea what the improvements actually mean, but they'll think it's cool anyway and since it's by Sony and they'll be comparing it with the PS2 a lot will probably get it. At least that's what I think will happen.
Oh the irony..... considering mario and zelda barely used the Wii's motion gimmicks. Metroid is another typical fps, and im going to lol at anyway that tries to convince me its a puzzler because theres some puzzles. Boom Blox? innovative? yea ok... id rather a motion controlled LBP, or hell a motion controlled HEAVY RAIN would be amazing... but yea, lets waggle in mario kart instead right?Naw, im good. PS3 wont have Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other innovative titles like Boom Blox. Yall have fun playing your 2574th FPS on Move.
Sonicplys
True, but its not about the headstart, which is all Nintendo have had... yea ok dominent sales this gen, but if the competition creates better things ready for the next generation then the situation will be reversed. Its the same crap everytime, same with analog sticks, hdds anything new.... means jack **** later on because theyle all have it and sometimes better than the original.The 'average' Wii owner (i.e. people who have a Wii and aren't reading a forum like this) don't care. They have their motion controlled game system and probably have invested a good amount of money in controllers and accessories. Sony and Microsoft are going to fall flat on their faces trying to chase a market Nintendo has completely cornered.
strudel420
[QUOTE="brennan7777"]
Ha yeah right, they dont honestly think people are going to with the $300 price tag, and the controls being priced at $100 each do they? That will just lead them back to square one with a $600 console.
Phaze-Two
math is hard
300 + 100 = 400
400 =/= 600
also the move is supposed to be bundled with the console and a game and camera. Also you can get the camera, move plus game bundle for under $99, or buy the controller by itself for probably around $30. (the price of the ps eye) so if you buy the new move bundle for $300 you would get the dual shock, a move controller, ps eye camera, move sports , and the console, which is also the best blue-ray player, does the internet, home, psp remote play, media server and has the best 1st party in the business!!! Seems like a stellar value to me.how much does Wii cost?[QUOTE="Phaze-Two"]
[QUOTE="Mario1331"]
if you planning on playing by yourself yea its only 400 but sony is aiming for the casual market casuals buy in abundance they going to buy way more then one more controller especially for parties in etc so in a way he is right
Mario1331
what does that have to do with what i said?sony is trying to take a share of the casual market from the wii thats is the point of the wand we all know that they are in last they need to follow suit and get with their motion controls.Casuals in general buy games,accessories,etc in abundance(meaning alot)they dont buy one thing and call it a day thats why casuals if going to buy the wand is going to buy more then one so the whole family can play so yes 300+3 wands is 600 ill grant you 2 wands thats 500 plus tax thats still damn near 600
All you bashers are way off base. I guess non of you watched the GDC press confrence? The ps3 will come with the PS-Eye, Move , dual shock3, and move sports for $299 that's a good deal. Or you can buy the camera + move+ move sports for under $99 , or buy the camera and move controllers seperate. There are options and bundles. If you did some research you bashers would of known this. Or is it you didn't want to know so you could make outrageous claims?
All you bashers are way off base. I guess non of you watched the GDC press confrence? The ps3 will come with the PS-Eye, Move , dual shock3, and move sports for $299 that's a good deal. Or you can buy the camera + move+ move sports for under $99(...)Midnightshade29i remember hearing before the PS3 was released that games would cost like 100 thanks to blu ray and so the PS3 was going to die before even the 1st year =p at least someone here cared to do a little research before posting, really Mario1331, you sound like 2006 =/ dont we have games to play? i'm outta here =p
You sheep and bashers are really defensive about this. He says upgrade, he doesn't even mention the wii, but its implied. What do you want them to say? They made a superior hardware, sure it doesn't have the nintendo franchsies but it has the motion controls and will have games for it, and it will be in hd, plus the original dual shock games.etc... Some people just may move to the move, why do you care? It really is one more thing the ps3 can do. When a new buyer looks at the options for each consoles the ps3 is going to look more appealing, it has so much for everyone. It does hard core, casual, dual shock/six-axis, move, online, offline, blu-ray , upscaled dvd, media server, home, folding at home etc, videos from every format, photos, internet browser, music w/ visualizers, psp integration, remote play, messaging, chat, up to 8 way video chat,trophies, an extensive list of top rated exclusives and 90% of the 360's multiplats (and soon multiplats shared with the wii) ..... So yeah it only does do everything!!! If some of you ps3 bashers knew what the console can do in and out of gaming you would see its the best value for the dollar!!! Unless you really need mario or master chief, then ps3 is the way to go.Midnightshade29Yes he did say "upgrade", but when GoNintendo brought up the topic (it was the link I previously had), that was what they put down. But I can see why seeing when it comes to Move being on PS3 (a Sony Console) and the Wii Remote on Wii (a Nintendo console), "upgrading" to a competitor's console somewhat means "jump ship" to them.
its hd waggle though no matter how you put it thats really a cheap shot if your saying move looks innovativeMario1331
Actually, it isn't waggle. It is like motion plus, except attached to much more powerful hardware giving developers much more possibilities for pursuing ideas.
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