Sony's first party games - all flash and no substance?

Like I've said before-the fact Sony are ramping up first party development is commendable,but none of their games bar GT and possibly GOW hold any interest in the wider gaming community.

Like you pointed out the buzz for the likes of KZ2 has pretty much died out,after like 2 months of release.(This was a game in development for the best part of a half-decade.)

I like the fact Sony are doing what they are doing,but they are failing at it imo,and its a strategy thats surely unsustainable when you take into account the losses SCE are incurring due to the PS3 and when you consider the wider economic sitiuation.

Very few exclusive PS3 titles interest me. They all look clones of something else...:?

Whatever happened to the PS1 days? I want Tomba 3 damnit! :evil:

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="OldSkoolGamer04"]

Hah. Now I'm hungry.

And so I'm on topic, I feel that a bulk of the games across the 360 and PS3 suffer this problem, which is why I'm now Wii only. I feel that the quality Wii titles (yes, they're out there) do offer that staying power that the others don't. When the copy of SMG that I ordered comes in, it'll be my 3rd playthrough (I had it and sold it a year ago). Games like No More Heroes and even Mario Kart Wii have held my interest much better than MGS 4, Killzone 2, and GeOW 2 - all games that I've played and have had the chance to play again.

And as for the consensus that MGS 4 is the one Sony title that is above this issue, I have to disagree tremendously. I'm a huge Metal Gear fan, and I liked 4, but to me it's nothing more than a huge technical workhorse that emphasizes the wrong areas. Other than the first two acts, I found nothing about it particularly gripping.

OldSkoolGamer04

[QUOTE="djsifer01"]Every PS3 exclusive ive palyed is sick and ive played them all. Infamous is going to be off the chain.OldSkoolGamer04

Ch-yeaaaah booiiiiii!

I almost regret selling my PS3 before getting a chance to play it.

Very few exclusive PS3 titles interest me. They all look clones of something else...:?

Whatever happened to the PS1 days? I want Tomba 3 damnit! :evil:

[QUOTE="djsifer01"]Every PS3 exclusive ive palyed is sick and ive played them all. Infamous is going to be off the chain.mitu123

[QUOTE="OldSkoolGamer04"]

[QUOTE="djsifer01"]Every PS3 exclusive ive palyed is sick and ive played them all. Infamous is going to be off the chain.djsifer01

Ch-yeaaaah booiiiiii!

I almost regret selling my PS3 before getting a chance to play it.

Need teh moniez, and I'm ok with just having a Wii.

Something tells me I'll be regretting it come holiday season when a bunch of new games are out though. :(

This information was confidential, why did you reveal such secrets? How many times I said to you think of the PS3 games as original games :xHAZE-Unit

Sony is God!

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="djsifer01"]Every PS3 exclusive ive palyed is sick and ive played them all. Infamous is going to be off the chain.djsifer01

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"] This information was confidential, why did you reveal such secrets? How many times I said to you think of the PS3 games as original games :xAljosa23

Sony is God!

[QUOTE="djsifer01"][QUOTE="mitu123"] I hope you mean the good ones and not the bad ones.mitu123

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="djsifer01"]Which ones did you not like? Because yes i own all PS3 current exclusives 2 of which never made it to my PS3 disc drive yet lol.djsifer01

LBP has 10,000 people online a day, i think thats ok

Warhawk, a PSN title is being played by soooooo many people, i understand that since that game is very fun to play and it has around 4 Dlc packs which include new weapons, vehicles and maps

LBP has 10,000 people online a day, i think thats ok

Warhawk, a PSN title is being played by soooooo many people, i understand that since that game is very fun to play and it has around 4 Dlc packs which include new weapons, vehicles and maps

Maybe if you all weren't so concerned about taking things personally, you may see the TC has a point.musicalmac

which reminds me isnt Gears2 all flash no substance?

If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.PoppaGamer

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

CLIFF NOTES because i'm tired of people posting aggressively toward me having not bothered to even read the post:

Sony's first party games almost always feature state-of-the-art technology powering them, but the gameplay seems to have a lower benchmark. Not to say that any of Sony's games are bad - far from it - however i feel the emphasis on making their games a showcase for the PS3's graphical capability is selling them short in terms of really innovative, outstanding gameplay and design. Instead, they release consistant and 'solid' games which garner good reviews and are generally enjoyed by those who play them, but which quickly die down in terms of general enthusiasm and interest in the game, much like a summer action-flick at the movies which, while fun to watch, leaves no lasting impression on the viewer.

ORIGINAL POST:

It seems to me that Sony's games just dont hold any interest in either System wars or the gaming community as a whole. If we take Killzone 2, easily the biggest blockbuster to hit the PS3 this year, and it's all but dead in just a couple of months. Halo 3 tops the Live charts week after week and is still discussed here pretty much daily, yet Killzone 2 appears to have had it's brief flash in the pan and then faded away in no time at all. I think this is because the game's graphics were its selling point. Once you'd seen it in action, admired the pretty effects and grown accustomed to them, there just isn't that much else to get you excited about the game.

Same with games like Ratchet and Clank and Uncharted. Decent enough gameplay, but real emphasis on the visuals. I think this approach adds up to generally dull games in the long-term. Take a movie like Wanted. Visually striking, and pretty fun while you're watching it, but once you're done it's completely forgettable. You dont want to go see it again. You dont want to go talk about it.

Take Little Big Planet - remember how that game was going to rule the world? What happened? It fizzled out in a matter of weeks.

I think Sony are trying to hard to convince gamers that their system is the 'premium' piece of tech by investing so much in graphics and effects, often at the behest of truly outstanding gameplay. So long as it looks fantastic, and plays competently enough, they seem happy to release the game, and people want something more than that.

EDIT:

I'm not saying Sony game suck by any means, nor is this a simple matter of total threads on system wars per day.

Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.musicalmac

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

which reminds me isnt Gears2 all flash no substance?

Generalmojo

- So in essence: Sony 1st party games aren't *DISCUSSED* much after their release (on message boards). Therefore they "fizz out". You're saying that Sony games have "no substance" because they aren't *DISCUSSED* much after release? On top of that you're sayng that Sony 1s party games are only displays of power and offer nothing new. Nothing is going to totally innovate the indutry.

- There's enough uniqueness in Sony 1st party titles as their is in MS 1st party titles. I think the issue people may have with your thread is that this can be applied to both Sony and Microsoft. And you are singling Sony out.

I'd say that 80-90% of games fizz out after release within a month or two. But I wouldn't say they have "no substance" because of this.

CLIFF NOTES because i'm tired of people posting aggressively toward me having not bothered to even read the post:

Sony's first party games almost always feature state-of-the-art technology powering them, but the gameplay seems to have a lower benchmark. Not to say that any of Sony's games are bad - far from it - however i feel the emphasis on making their games a showcase for the PS3's graphical capability is selling them short in terms of really innovative, outstanding gameplay and design. Instead, they release consistant and 'solid' games which garner good reviews and are generally enjoyed by those who play them, but which quickly die down in terms of general enthusiasm and interest in the game, much like a summer action-flick at the movies which, while fun to watch, leaves no lasting impression on the viewer.

ORIGINAL POST:

It seems to me that Sony's games just dont hold any interest in either System wars or the gaming community as a whole. If we take Killzone 2, easily the biggest blockbuster to hit the PS3 this year, and it's all but dead in just a couple of months. Halo 3 tops the Live charts week after week and is still discussed here pretty much daily, yet Killzone 2 appears to have had it's brief flash in the pan and then faded away in no time at all. I think this is because the game's graphics were its selling point. Once you'd seen it in action, admired the pretty effects and grown accustomed to them, there just isn't that much else to get you excited about the game.

Same with games like Ratchet and Clank and Uncharted. Decent enough gameplay, but real emphasis on the visuals. I think this approach adds up to generally dull games in the long-term. Take a movie like Wanted. Visually striking, and pretty fun while you're watching it, but once you're done it's completely forgettable. You dont want to go see it again. You dont want to go talk about it.

Take Little Big Planet - remember how that game was going to rule the world? What happened? It fizzled out in a matter of weeks.

I think Sony are trying to hard to convince gamers that their system is the 'premium' piece of tech by investing so much in graphics and effects, often at the behest of truly outstanding gameplay. So long as it looks fantastic, and plays competently enough, they seem happy to release the game, and people want something more than that.

EDIT:

I'm not saying Sony game suck by any means, nor is this a simple matter of total threads on system wars per day.

[QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.PoppaGamer

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

MGS4 is not a pick back up and play title, but all 360 and Wii titles are? I thought I asked for us to be real. This is a horrible argument. MGS4 gives gamers the most unbelieveable experiences in gaming ever. It is the fans fan game. To say it has no sunstance is ridiculous. KZ2 just came out. Give it time and someone will promote a future title to overtake it on graphics. Yes, the game lacks story and character development. But this is not unlike a lot of shooters where its all about the masculine, steroid phrases and weak plots. This is not locked to the PS3. And that is why this thread is full of fail. The same reasons used against the PS3 here can be used against ANY other console.PoppaGamer

I was talking about two specific games, not any other games on any other platform.

I am happy you enjoyed MGS4, but the argument that "...MGS4 gives gamers the most unbelievable experiences in gaming ever" isn't exactly a "real" (in your own words) point. And MGS4 is in no way a pick up and play title when there are installs between all the major chapters in the game.

I didn't say anything about the graphics, the story, or the character development of Killzone 2. I was talking specifically about the impact the game had on the industry. Nobody talks about the Killzone 2 killer. I'm sure it's one of the more popular games for online fragging on the PS3 right now. I would be interested to know how it stacks up against Halo 3, CoD4, and Gears 2 statistically in that category.

This is why it's difficult talking objectively about issues people take too personally. The Internet- not serious business.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.musicalmac

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

[QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.PoppaGamer

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

killzone 2 will not be actively talked about 1 and half a year after release like halo 3.

yea and halo 3 is all substance or GEOW 1 and 2, gimme a break....

I think Ninja-Hippo has a point to an extent, all games are discussed less after a while. The problem is he isolated Sony and the PS3. Also, the arguments seem to contradict themselves. I'm not sure if you're conveying the idea of the community's lack of interest, the respective game's gameplay, or the sales :?. Nice rebuttal BTW HAZE.Episode_Eve

HAZE-Unit has properly debunked this thread for the bullspit that it is.Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="musicalmac"]

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

HistoricalSD

killzone 2 will not be actively talked about 1 and half a year after release like halo 3.

[QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.PoppaGamer

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] If he indeed has a point, the same point works with ALL consoles. Acting as if PS3 titles are somehow predisposed to having no life or legs is just comedic. We all know Gears has that lasting story. Too Human is still winning awards. etc., etc., etc. Let's be real here.musicalmac

I understand where you are coming from, but let me talk about two specific mega-games in the PS3 lineup: MGS4 and Killzone 2.

MGS4 had a great single player campaign, that will keep you busy for ages. That's fine, but the multiplayer suite wasn't exactly as successful. That combined with the very nature of the single player makes it difficult to go back to, because it's not a pick up and play sort of game.

Killzone 2 had great presentation, and looked fantastic. But have you ever seen a thread that said, "New FPS from ***** - Killzone 2 Killer!"?

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] HAZE-Unit has properly debunked this thread for the bullspit that it is.IronBass

BTW I was kicked from GUFU :lol:. Why :cry: ? Not enough time to devote to the board. All of my free time I spend on SW.

[QUOTE="HistoricalSD"]

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] MGS4 is not a pick back up and play title, but all 360 and Wii titles are? I thought I asked for us to be real. This is a horrible argument. MGS4 gives gamers the most unbelieveable experiences in gaming ever. It is the fans fan game. To say it has no sunstance is ridiculous. KZ2 just came out. Give it time and someone will promote a future title to overtake it on graphics. Yes, the game lacks story and character development. But this is not unlike a lot of shooters where its all about the masculine, steroid phrases and weak plots. This is not locked to the PS3. And that is why this thread is full of fail. The same reasons used against the PS3 here can be used against ANY other console.jerkface96

killzone 2 will not be actively talked about 1 and half a year after release like halo 3.

lol. i really feel sorry for u if you think that. killzone 2 is forgotten NOW, bascially...

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] HAZE-Unit has properly debunked this thread for the bullspit that it is.TREAL_Since

BTW I was kicked from GUFU :lol:. Why :cry: ? Not enough time to devote to the board. All of my free time I spend on SW.

Is that why?Episode_Eve

We've definitely seen comparisons to KZ2 in various regards. There doesn't have to be the "Killzone-killer" comparison to justify it has substance. The general consensus by the industry and community is that it does. MGS4 is IMO the best single player campaign this gen by far. Sure MGO wasn't as successful as Konami had hoped, but there's a nice niche fan base. The game doesn't need MP to have substance. In this age of gaming, we focus and rely too much on the online component that we can ignore the true "substance" of the game. MGS4 has it :).Episode_Eve

I agree, KZ2 gets discussed for various reasons, usually for the games presentation. I'm not arguing it's low on substance, because it clearly has had an impact on many fans, with a compelling single player campaign, and a solid multiplayer component. But because nobody talks about the next great console shooter that can "kill Killzone 2", means it doesn't hold the clout that a shooter like Halo 3 does. That's not the fault of the developer, it's the fact that games like Halo have a solid AAA base to work from, and a fanbase (and media-base) to boot.

You're also right with MGS4. It's full of substance for the fans. But because it's a niche title, as you suggested, it wasn't something every PS3 owner was waiting for. You don't have to know anything about Halo to enjoy the multiplayer. In this sense, it's one way Halo 3 beats the beast MGS4 without needing to even mention the single player.

Please keep in mind I've only mentioned two games on the PS3- not the whole platform. Again, Internet is not serious business unless you take things a wee bit too personally (not directing this at you, Episode_Eve).

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] HAZE-Unit has properly debunked this thread for the bullspit that it is.IronBass

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"] Is that why?IronBass

Everyone is if you take your time to post.Episode_Eve

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]We've definitely seen comparisons to KZ2 in various regards. There doesn't have to be the "Killzone-killer" comparison to justify it has substance. The general consensus by the industry and community is that it does. MGS4 is IMO the best single player campaign this gen by far. Sure MGO wasn't as successful as Konami had hoped, but there's a nice niche fan base. The game doesn't need MP to have substance. In this age of gaming, we focus and rely too much on the online component that we can ignore the true "substance" of the game. MGS4 has it :).musicalmac

I agree, KZ2 gets discussed for various reasons, usually for the games presentation. I'm not arguing it's low on substance, because it clearly has had an impact on many fans, with a compelling single player campaign, and a solid multiplayer component. But because nobody talks about the next great console shooter that can "kill Killzone 2", means it doesn't hold the clout that a shooter like Halo 3 does. That's not the fault of the developer, it's the fact that games like Halo have a solid AAA base to work from, and a fanbase (and media-base) to boot.

You're also right with MGS4. It's full of substance for the fans. But because it's a niche title, as you suggested, it wasn't something every PS3 owner was waiting for. You don't have to know anything about Halo to enjoy the multiplayer. In this sense, it's one way Halo 3 beats the beast MGS4 without needing to even mention the single player.

Please keep in mind I've only mentioned two games on the PS3- not the whole platform. Again, Internet is not serious business unless you take things a wee bit too personally (not directing this at you, Episode_Eve).

killzone 2 has had minimal impact anywhere compared to halo 3, actually. halo 3 was the most played xbox live game in 2007 and 2008 and last week, too. and over 1 million unique players play it online every 24 hours and it is still being actively talked in System wars, despite a September release in 07'.

I don't think so at all. There just have been a lack of truely memorable games on Sony's side this gen.

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Everyone is if you take your time to post.musicalmac