Splinter Cell vs Metal Gear Solid?

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]... even Conviction doesn't look that good for current gen 09 standards, it looks like a 05-06 game...HAZE-Unit

When I saw the demo at the conference I was shocked how the graphics looked good but when I saw the high quality videos it didn't look as good, it looked like a 08-07 game.

MGS4 is very overrated when it comes to graphics, even double agent looks better. SC Conviction looks fantastic

MGS1 -> Splinter Cell (Better Story, obviously not better graphics)

MGS2 kinda equal to SC2 - the Story in MGS2 is a bloody mess (no matter how you look at it), but graphically its good and fun to play, Splinter Cell 2 has great gameplay though.

SC3 ---> MGS3 - No Question, SC3 had the best graphics of any game last gen, AWESOME music and fantastic gameplay.

MGS4 -> SC DA - I've not played MGS4, but I strongly suspect it's better than DA because DA was pretty s**t.

So I draw that up at including the draw, 3 - 2 to MGS.

Splinter Cell has better stealth gameplay, but MGS has a better story. I thought Chaos Theory had amazing graphics for it's time, but Double Agent was very lackluster... MGS4 had pretty bad graphics, they could have been a lot better on PC, which I had the Splinter Cell games on. I'm gonna go with Splinter Cell.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"] This part was sarcasm, wasn't it?sikanderahmed

When I saw the demo at the conference I was shocked how the graphics looked good but when I saw the high quality videos it didn't look as good, it looked like a 08-07 game.

MGS4 is very overrated when it comes to graphics, even double agent looks better. SC Conviction looks fantastic

No it isn't overratedHAZE-Unit

No it isn't overrated, tech wise it looks way better than alot of games, one of the best looking games this gen and definitely better looking than conviction.

HAZE-Unit

yes it is overrated, the graphics were not as good as cows claim, the game had very weak textures, the character models were coolbut veryplastic-fied.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]No it isn't overratedStevo_the_gamer

Did I say anything about GS and Crysis?HAZE-Unit

Metal gear series for me, Splinter Cell takes itself too serious its not even funny, so slow gameplay wise slower than Metal gear, it has the habit of trial and error while Metal gear doesn't have, you could proceed to your missions in alot of different ways.

Gameplay, metal gear, like I said there are alot of ways to approach the missions, faster paced than SC's gameplay, alot of great and innovative futuristic gadgets, alot of creative ideas like getting the frequency of one of snake's comrades from the back of the game's box was an awesome thing to do, switching controllers to kill bosses,the boss battles, who doesn't like boss battles?

I mean I grew up gaming fighting bosses from the nes, snes era to this day, it gives a better experience and impact for the game because the player will remember those boss battles and those enemies you fought making the game more memorable.

Graphics, Metal gear, I don't think SC fans praise it for its graphics, even Conviction doesn't look that good for current gen 09 standards, it looks like a 05-06 game, on the other hand, Metal Gear always pioneered in the graphics department.

Story its so obvious, MGS series are story driven games unlike SC, in SC the player play from mission to mission and don't care about the story and is irrelevant.

SC is good but it is no way near the MGS series.

HAZE-Unit

Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]Did I say anything about GS and Crysis?Stevo_the_gamer

Ok this is will go a bit offtopic if we continue but I'll tell you what, GS overrated the graphics, it's only one source, not the whole internet sources and media. And everyone here loled at the award and nobody took it seriously because we all knew backthen it was a no brainer Crysis is the better looking game, however the majority agreed at the time that MGS4 was the graphics king so it says something.

Im saying it's not overrated when it looks better than alot of games this gen and definitely better looking than SC.

EDIT: oh shoot I forgot the word "console" graphics king.

Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

VoodooHak

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]Did I say anything about GS and Crysis?Stevo_the_gamer

- They most liekly judged it based on what the PS3 is capable of. For all we know MGS4 MAY be more technically demanding on the PS3's hardware than Crysis is on the PC. The PS3 is complacent hardware, the PC is limitless.

- I hope no one here actually attempts to determine which game (Crysis or MGS4) is more technically demanding and impressive considering it's respective system.

- Lastly Crysis looks better than MGS4. Something which is almost impossible to deny.

------------

Coming from a person (you) who is quick to spout "OPINION =/= FACT", I would assume you aren't passing MGS4 as "overrated" as a fact (which seems to be the case). I think they should have given it to Crysis instead, but that's my opinion. You haven't played the game and you are calling it overrated by using GS's opinion on "graphics" as justification? I cannot see how that adds up.

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

Dystopian-X

I don't think I would be that generous. SCDA allowed for more aggressive gameplay and was much more forgiving in the "win" criteria for each mission, but I wouldn't call that variety.

Conviction's sandbox levels. That's what I would call variety. But we'll have to see how they execute on that before we can pass judgment.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"] lol ok lets say I've exaggerated a bit but it is not good looking compared to the standard this year, I mean we saw Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2....etc, we played RE5, even MGSIV looks better.

When I saw the demo at the conference I was shocked how the graphics looked good but when I saw the high quality videos it didn't look as good, it looked like a 08-07 game.

HAZE-Unit

MGS4 is very overrated when it comes to graphics, even double agent looks better. SC Conviction looks fantastic

Adding my 2 cents. SC graphics are more than just graphical fidelity. Its dynamic light and shadows were actual game mechanics. In this case, the graphics directly effected the gameplay.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Metal gear series for me, Splinter Cell takes itself too serious its not even funny, so slow gameplay wise slower than Metal gear, it has the habit of trial and error while Metal gear doesn't have, you could proceed to your missions in alot of different ways.

Gameplay, metal gear, like I said there are alot of ways to approach the missions, faster paced than SC's gameplay, alot of great and innovative futuristic gadgets, alot of creative ideas like getting the frequency of one of snake's comrades from the back of the game's box was an awesome thing to do, switching controllers to kill bosses,the boss battles, who doesn't like boss battles?

I mean I grew up gaming fighting bosses from the nes, snes era to this day, it gives a better experience and impact for the game because the player will remember those boss battles and those enemies you fought making the game more memorable.

Graphics, Metal gear, I don't think SC fans praise it for its graphics, even Conviction doesn't look that good for current gen 09 standards, it looks like a 05-06 game, on the other hand, Metal Gear always pioneered in the graphics department.

Story its so obvious, MGS series are story driven games unlike SC, in SC the player play from mission to mission and don't care about the story and is irrelevant.

SC is good but it is no way near the MGS series.

VoodooHak

Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

I know what you mean, look at games like Ninja Gaiden, its gameplay is the major factor that motivates the player to continue playing, however in MGS's case, I think the gameplay is amazing too, afterall if the story is stellar and the gameplay is not appealing as much as the story, I wouldn't be able to complete the MGS games ever, gameplay is a major factor to suck me in.

Look at a game like Bioshock, the atmosphere and the story is stellar but I couldn't stand the gameplay, I didn't finish the game yet to this day.

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Metal gear series for me, Splinter Cell takes itself too serious its not even funny, so slow gameplay wise slower than Metal gear, it has the habit of trial and error while Metal gear doesn't have, you could proceed to your missions in alot of different ways.

Gameplay, metal gear, like I said there are alot of ways to approach the missions, faster paced than SC's gameplay, alot of great and innovative futuristic gadgets, alot of creative ideas like getting the frequency of one of snake's comrades from the back of the game's box was an awesome thing to do, switching controllers to kill bosses,the boss battles, who doesn't like boss battles?

I mean I grew up gaming fighting bosses from the nes, snes era to this day, it gives a better experience and impact for the game because the player will remember those boss battles and those enemies you fought making the game more memorable.

Graphics, Metal gear, I don't think SC fans praise it for its graphics, even Conviction doesn't look that good for current gen 09 standards, it looks like a 05-06 game, on the other hand, Metal Gear always pioneered in the graphics department.

Story its so obvious, MGS series are story driven games unlike SC, in SC the player play from mission to mission and don't care about the story and is irrelevant.

SC is good but it is no way near the MGS series.

HAZE-Unit

Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

I know what you mean, look at games like Ninja Gaiden, its gameplay is the major factor that motivates the player to continue playing, however in MGS's case, I think the gameplay is amazing too, afterall if the story is stellar and the gameplay is not appealing as much as the story, I wouldn't be able to complete the MGS games ever, gameplay is a major factor to suck me in.

Look at a game like Bioshock, the atmosphere and the story is stellar but I couldn't stand the gameplay, I didn't finish the game yet to this day.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

MGS4 is very overrated when it comes to graphics, even double agent looks better. SC Conviction looks fantastic

VoodooHak

Adding my 2 cents. SC graphics are more than just graphical fidelity. Its dynamic light and shadows were actual game mechanics. In this case, the graphics directly effected the gameplay.

I liked this feature in SC, btw in MGS4 the shadow gameplay mechanic was implemented, I think they did it in MGS3 too if memory serves.

but the camoflague engines in MGS3 and MGS4 were the real awesome mechanics.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

Maybe there's a generational influence here in terms of where you started gaming. I started gaming on PC where devs were mainly western and didn't use boss fights that much. Memories of a game were derived from the actual gameplay and situations that the player was put in rather than over-the-top characters.

Here's another idea to chew on:

With SC, the story is merely a framework to contruct the gameplay around. Motivation to progress through the game is derived from the strength of the game's mechanics.

With MG, it could be the opposite, where the gameplay is merely a vehicle for the story. Motivation to progress is taken primarily from the narrative.

TREAL_Since

I know what you mean, look at games like Ninja Gaiden, its gameplay is the major factor that motivates the player to continue playing, however in MGS's case, I think the gameplay is amazing too, afterall if the story is stellar and the gameplay is not appealing as much as the story, I wouldn't be able to complete the MGS games ever, gameplay is a major factor to suck me in.

Look at a game like Bioshock, the atmosphere and the story is stellar but I couldn't stand the gameplay, I didn't finish the game yet to this day.

hey don't get me wrong thats what Im trying to say, I said "if" in the beginning of the sentence :P

I agree with you in MGS4 the gameplay was so fantastic.

- You know what's going to make Splinter Cell Conviciton even better than it was before? Ubi is relying on dynamic and fun action this time around to compliment the great stealth aspects. In the demonstration they showcased ACTION ACTION ACTION. Very little emphasis on stealth.

- This is new for the franchise and should do bode very well with the stealth mechanics. I'm glad they are going in this direction, but I hope they don't overshadow the stealth.

- Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly. And if Ubi gets it right Conviction will be the best SC yet IMO.TREAL_Since

Exactly, the E3 demo was fast paced which all I wanted from SC games and the story sounds awesome too.

Splinter Cell is a decent franchise, but it's never been as big or as good as the Metal Gear series.

Just because they showcased a game demo at E3 still doesn't make it comparable to MGS.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] - Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly.AAllxxjjnn

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]- You know what's going to make Splinter Cell Conviciton even better than it was before? Ubi is relying on dynamic and fun action this time around to compliment the great stealth aspects. In the demonstration they showcased ACTION ACTION ACTION. Very little emphasis on stealth.

- This is new for the franchise and should do bode very well with the stealth mechanics. I'm glad they are going in this direction, but I hope they don't overshadow the stealth.

- Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly. And if Ubi gets it right Conviction will be the best SC yet IMO.HAZE-Unit

Exactly, the E3 demo was fast paced which all I wanted from SC games and the story sounds awesome too.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] - Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly.AAllxxjjnn

ALSO: I haven't played Crysis in it's entirety. So I'm in no position to say if it has great stealth mechanics or not. Or if it the stealth/action options are as seamless and available throughout the entire game like MGS4.

- You know... I think it's rare to find someone who likes one series more (out of Splinter Cell and MGS), but still completely respects, recognizes the greatness of, and plays the other series.

- I'm gonna re-read through the thread and give Kudos to those who do :D.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]- You know what's going to make Splinter Cell Conviciton even better than it was before? Ubi is relying on dynamic and fun action this time around to compliment the great stealth aspects. In the demonstration they showcased ACTION ACTION ACTION. Very little emphasis on stealth.

- This is new for the franchise and should do bode very well with the stealth mechanics. I'm glad they are going in this direction, but I hope they don't overshadow the stealth.

- Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly. And if Ubi gets it right Conviction will be the best SC yet IMO.TREAL_Since

Exactly, the E3 demo was fast paced which all I wanted from SC games and the story sounds awesome too.

- I am a bit disappointed that Ubi opted to demonstrate ACTION in place of stealth (at E3). I'm sure in the upcoming months they will reveal the new/unique stealth mechanics they have implemented in Conviction.

- Conviction is my number one game on 360 this year. Before it was Halo ODST, but Convition blew it out of the water IMO. Sam is back and he wants revenge for his family (Harrison Ford :P)!

I guess they wanted to show us the new direction the game is taking and what is new for players to experience, its better than showing the same old gameplay mechanics in an event like E3 where people like us just want awesome footage and jaw dropping moments :P

For me Forza 3 and SC conviction are a must buy this year, Forza 3 looks phenomenal.

Splinter Cell is a decent franchise, but it's never been as big or as good as the Metal Gear series.

Just because they showcased a game demo at E3 still doesn't make it comparable to MGS.

Are you really saying otherwise? You can play Crysis full on stealth. It gives you the tools to do so. And Crysis is very seamless.AAllxxjjnn

Yes it gives you a few tools...like the cloak and maybe the speed mode to be used how you see fit as well as other basic stealth tools like weapon silencer and the basic sneak skills present on plenty of other games but that's about it. Comparing it to all the different stealth mechanics in MGS4 is fail.

- You know... I think it's rare to find someone who likes one series more (out of Splinter Cell and MGS), but still completely respects, recognizes the greatness of, and plays the other series.

- I'm gonna re-read through the thread and give Kudos to those who do :D.

TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"] Are you really saying otherwise? You can play Crysis full on stealth. It gives you the tools to do so. And Crysis is very seamless.Dystopian-X

Yes it gives you a few tools...like the cloak and maybe the speed mode to be used how you see fit as well as other basic stealth tools like weapon silencer and the basic sneak skills present on plenty of other games but that's about it. Comparing it to all the different stealth mechanics in MGS4 is fail.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]- You know what's going to make Splinter Cell Conviciton even better than it was before? Ubi is relying on dynamic and fun action this time around to compliment the great stealth aspects. In the demonstration they showcased ACTION ACTION ACTION. Very little emphasis on stealth.

- This is new for the franchise and should do bode very well with the stealth mechanics. I'm glad they are going in this direction, but I hope they don't overshadow the stealth.

- Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly. And if Ubi gets it right Conviction will be the best SC yet IMO.HAZE-Unit

Exactly, the E3 demo was fast paced which all I wanted from SC games and the story sounds awesome too.

I'm not sure if I'd be cool with that. I still want the pure stealth experience. However, I wouldn't turn away more direct action as long as it makes sense with Sam's particular situation.

On a side note, I'd love to see where they take the multiplayer.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]- You know what's going to make Splinter Cell Conviciton even better than it was before? Ubi is relying on dynamic and fun action this time around to compliment the great stealth aspects. In the demonstration they showcased ACTION ACTION ACTION. Very little emphasis on stealth.

- This is new for the franchise and should do bode very well with the stealth mechanics. I'm glad they are going in this direction, but I hope they don't overshadow the stealth.

- Lastly I don't want to compare it to MGS4, but as of now MGS4 is the only game on the market that allows you to do stealth/action seamlessly. And if Ubi gets it right Conviction will be the best SC yet IMO.VoodooHak

Exactly, the E3 demo was fast paced which all I wanted from SC games and the story sounds awesome too.

I'm not sure if I'd be cool with that. I still want the pure stealth experience. However, I wouldn't turn away more direct action as long as it makes sense with Sam's particular situation.

On a side note, I'd love to see where they take the multiplayer.

lol ok lets say I've exaggerated a bit but it is not good looking compared to the standard this year, I mean we saw Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2....etc, we played RE5, even MGSIV looks better.HAZE-Unit

When I saw the demo at the conference I was shocked how the graphics looked good but when I saw the high quality videos it didn't look as good, it looked like a 08-07 game.HAZE-Unit

is this a joke question? MGS4 is rated 10 for a reason

is this a joke question? MGS4 is rated 10 for a reason

def_mode

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"] Are you really saying otherwise? You can play Crysis full on stealth. It gives you the tools to do so. And Crysis is very seamless.AAllxxjjnn

Yes it gives you a few tools...like the cloak and maybe the speed mode to be used how you see fit as well as other basic stealth tools like weapon silencer and the basic sneak skills present on plenty of other games but that's about it. Comparing it to all the different stealth mechanics in MGS4 is fail.

Carry enemies and hold them up, (actually hold them up not just grabbing them by the neck) or putting them to sleep, Octocam, playing dead, hiding in different spots not just simply taking cover like crysis, Psyche meter and all it's repercussions, the MK II. All of those make crysis features basic as well as others it doesn't have like hanging from ledges or even crawling.

I can't argue on behalf of Crysis, I've never played it. But the playing dead thing was done in Army of two, also. But MGS 4 got a 10, so......cainetao11

- The thing is: We don't know. I don't. You don't. and I'm sure GS doesn't.

- They most liekly judged it based on what the PS3 is capable of. For all we know MGS4 MAY be more technically demanding on the PS3's hardware than Crysis is on the PC. The PS3 is complacent hardware, the PC is limitless.

- I hope no one here actually attempts to determine which game (Crysis or MGS4) is more technically demanding and impressive considering it's respective system.

- Lastly Crysis looks better than MGS4. Something which is almost impossible to deny.

Coming from a person (you) who is quick to spout "OPINION =/= FACT", I would assume you aren't passing MGS4 as "overrated" as a fact (which seems to be the case). I think they should have given it to Crysis instead, but that's my opinion. You haven't played the game and you are calling it overrated by using GS's opinion on "graphics" as justification? I cannot see how that adds up.

TREAL_Since

We don't know what? Best Technical Graphics can be judged objectively, it's the game which features the most technically impressive visuals. Saying MGS4 is technically superior to Crysis Warhead is the equivalent to saying some third grade punk is a better fighter than a UFC Heavy Weight Champion.

And they didn't judge Crysis Warhead according to what the PC is capable of at the current time of its release? I'm sorry, but to this game no setup can play Crysis Warhead at max settings with full A/A and filtering, at full resolution 1600p. Don't you think that's pushing it to the limits? When computers over a year later still choke when playing Crysis? So that reasoning has its faults. Try playing Crysis in it's current form on the PS3; I'd be impressed if it managed to even attain 5 fps.

Crysis is technically superior in every conceivable way. Of course it looks better, anyone who denies is being a fanboy/fakeboy. :P

Well, indeed -- it's an opinion to say the graphics are overrated (for you would have to take into an account what specifies as overrated, and view upon what others say in a subjective manner). But Gamespot's opinion on Best Technical Graphics is a clear objective basis on overrating a game's graphics. Anyone who says MGS4 is technically superior to Crysis is an idiot (good thing no one has here so that isn't directed towards anyone -- take that mods! :P).

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"]Splinter Cell for gameplay, MGS for graphics, neither for story. Stories in both of them aren't special at all.Supa__Mario