SW, what is it about the wii that makes so many of you inherently hate it?
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Oh I am sorry that game journalists hate the wii, after all they are GAMERS. If you have a problem with them hating them, then just go to a Wii fanboy site or something cause gamespot, gametrailers, ign and so on are GAMING sites, and they love games, not shovelware.BlackSubmarine
So is the assumption then that I'm not a gamer?
[QUOTE="garland51"]
Let's see here:
1.) About 85% of the titles are based on shovelware, party, remakes, excerising, & PS2 ports. The other 15% are great games. Even if you played every day, it would take you more time than this whole gen to play all 15%. Besides, who cares if the other 85% is shovelware? Are you going out and playing bad games?
2.) You'll get bored with it over time if another 1st party game doesn't come out soon. Then maybe you shouldn't ignore the great third party games?
3.) I don't want to keep waving my arms around to play games. Then don't. Nearly all good wii games have very little waggle.
4.) The Wii is more powerful than X-Box, yet due to a lack of amount of system RAM and less processing power, it can't handle graphics above 480p. Pathetic. Even some games from the original X-Box like MK: Armageddon & Soul Calibur 2 run in 720p. So, your a graphics whore who can't enjoy a game unless it's cutting edge?
5.) They don't even have DVD playback, despite them using DVD's for games. Both X-Box & PS2 had them last gen, but Nintendo didn't have it. Both 360 & PS3 have them, yet, Nintendo still doesn't have it. So? I have about 5 DVD players in my house already. Why would I need a 7th?
goblaa
Maybe you should try thinking before you type next time.
Huh? Say what? Let's see here:
1.) The other 15% are great games. Even if you played every day, it would take you more time than this whole gen to play all 15%. Besides, who cares if the other 85% is shovelware? Are you going out and playing bad games?
Maybe so, but it's still not enough for me to waste $250 out on. The NES, SNES, the N64, & the GC had all sorts of great, quality games.
2.) So, your a graphics whore who can't enjoy a game unless it's cutting edge?
So what? I enjoyed playing games that aren't on the HD level, & I enjoyed playing them on the HD level. Are you trying to tell me that I should stick with last gen graphics forever?
3.) So? I have about 5 DVD players in my house already. Why would I need a 7th?
They just need to get with the times already. They're so behind in that category.
Maybe you should try thinking before you type next time.
If you can't accept people's opinions, then why post?
[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"]
Let's get real here. Elitist gamers hate the Wii because it is a perfect contradiction to their beliefs on what gaming should be. Their true hatred is that they could not accept that it outsold their elite system despite its last gen graphics, shovelware and waggle controls. No matter how much they try to say that games matters, or that Wii is not a next gen console; the truth is that it really matters to them, thus the hatred is so deep on Wii from elitist gamers.
In other regions like Asia and Europe, elitist gamers gaming from those region are mostly played on PC not on console. Thus, I certainly believe that this Wii hatred started and concentrated in U.S. (Canada even likes the Wii). At one point, the word "patriotism" and "buy American" was used on XBox 360 against the Wii. That's how deep the hatred is on Wii.
SO let's keep it real, you elitist gamers don't hate it because of its graphics, shovelware, or controls; It is already expected and anticipated. You hate it because the success of the Wii has changed the way video game industry is run. It used to be that the most 3rd party developer dictates the console sales. That's no longer the case this gen due to Wii.
I'm not a Wii fan as I am more on PC gaming and a hardcore gamer. But you elitist gamers get it straight on why you hate the Wii. Just simply say you hate it because Wii is changing gaming that is not catered to your view.
Yeah, that's another reason... I don't like the styIe of games it has to offer. Though, i won't consider myself elitist, i do concede that your first paragraph(relating to the success of the wii) applies to me. But everything afterward is just your theory which i believe is not correct. There are gamers after all who did buy the Wii(definitely not me though, hated that thing from the beginning) but got turned off by either or a combination of its lack of enough good games, the controls or even the graphics. And what exactly is the benefit of 3rd party developers not dictating the console sales? How is that beneficial to you or me as gamers? The way I see it, we consumers (PC gamer, casual, hardcore, elitist, and non-gamer) should dictate the console sales not 3rd party. Afterall, we are the ones buying the games and console. If 3rd party developers only caters on one gamer group (elitist), it could lead to financial disaster as other gaming groups are isolated. Surprisingly, filling the gap of other gaming groups is what Nintendo did on Wii. So it isn't exactly beneficial for 3rd party developer to dictate the market rather consumers should. Just remember, as I also learn it the hard way, we are not the only gamers. These other gaming group are the majority especially the casuals. The Wii offered something that the casual and non-gamer like, and you cannot hate that.I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Bioshock was never an exclusive to start with.Also Wii suffers alot from not having those amazing AAA multiplat games (gta4,assassins creed,resident evil 5,burnout,mirrors edge,etc etc)I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Brawl578
That's odd, the music industry died when they wanted to expand there audience with mains[QUOTE="CoreoVII"]
You realize if video game companies keep appealing to the same market over and over again without expanding their audience, the industry will either become completely stagnant or die altogether. Nintendo was the only company really pushing to expand gaming and make it more mainstream; Sony and MS are merely trying to catch up right now.
shoryuken_
[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]It's not a console for kids at all. It's a console for EVERYONE. That's Nintendo's vision. As a result, this means you're not going to get many people who care about playing games like Zack and Wiki or Madworld. And that means there will be games that core gamers won't feel satisfied with because less and less core experiences will be available. --- Now there are many good and great games on the Wii... I just don't really want to play most of them...The wii is a console for everyone, except the core gamer.1) graphics are terrible
2) 90% of games are shovelware designed for people under the game of 8
3) It gets shoddy ports, or none at all
Its a console for kids. Who dont care about graphics or gameplay as long as they get to play as their favourite cartoon character.
TREAL_Since
What bothers me more than thedislike for the wii is the fact it is hardly seen as relevant in most of the big SW threads!
It seems toalways be 360 vs PS3 all over the front page with maybe 1 or 2 wii threads usually looking something like this :? unfortunatly!
Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
[QUOTE="Brawl578"]Bioshock was never an exclusive to start with.Also Wii suffers alot from not having those amazing AAA multiplat games (gta4,assassins creed,resident evil 5,burnout,mirrors edge,etc etc) lol am quoting myself xd Mirrors edge aint AAA,but i could go on such as batman Arkahm and Bioshock :P Wii need some of those..I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Ratchet_Fan8
If you can't accept people's opinions, then why post?
garland51
If you don't want your opinion to be questioned, don't post in a thread like this. This whole, accept it crap is weak. Stay out of threads with purposes like this if you don't feel you should ever have to answer peoples questions.
[QUOTE="BlackSubmarine"]Oh I am sorry that game journalists hate the wii, after all they are GAMERS. If you have a problem with them hating them, then just go to a Wii fanboy site or something cause gamespot, gametrailers, ign and so on are GAMING sites, and they love games, not shovelware.ActicEdge
So is the assumption then that I'm not a gamer?
Just because you like the wii, doesn't mean all gamers like the wii. Very few do. Your just one of the special ones.btw I am in many gaming forums, and they barely have any sheeps. Now I see where the sheeps have migrated to, gamespot.
Its not ALL about exclusives man. There was no real reason to own an Xbox for exclusives back then I bought the xbox because most of the multiplats were better on xbox. Its the same case this gen. Most of the games I own for xbox also came out for ps3 and I own both so the only reason I buy it for xbox is either significant graphical upgrade or the fact that I have to download it onto my ps3.I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Brawl578
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
[QUOTE="BlackSubmarine"]Oh I am sorry that game journalists hate the wii, after all they are GAMERS. If you have a problem with them hating them, then just go to a Wii fanboy site or something cause gamespot, gametrailers, ign and so on are GAMING sites, and they love games, not shovelware.BlackSubmarine
So is the assumption then that I'm not a gamer?
Just because you like the wii, doesn't mean all gamers like the wii. Very few do. Your just one of the special ones.btw I am in many gaming forums, and they barely have any sheeps. Now I see where the sheeps have migrated to, gamespot.
I honestly am not interested in your posting life. Am I a gamer or not?
Just because you like the wii, doesn't mean all gamers like the wii. Very few do. Your just one of the special ones.[QUOTE="BlackSubmarine"]
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
So is the assumption then that I'm not a gamer?
ActicEdge
btw I am in many gaming forums, and they barely have any sheeps. Now I see where the sheeps have migrated to, gamespot.
I honestly am not interested in your posting life. Am I a gamer or not?
40 year old grandma plays wii..shes a gamer right?What bothers me more than thedislike for the wii is the fact it is hardly seen as relevant in most of the big SW threads!
It seems toalways be 360 vs PS3 all over the front page with maybe 1 or 2 wii threads usually looking something like this :? unfortunatly!
kenakuma
That's the way this forum is. Its not really important to be honest. No one wants to talk about it fine, it doesn't mean there is nothing to talk about though ;)
What are you on about, I don't hate the wii because it's made by nintendo, nor do most the people on here. Quit pooping out arguements that aren't even relevant. The fact of the matter is the wii represents everything I dislike. Most games are easy, simple and for the most part don't appeal to me. I like mario, I like metroid, and I like zelda just fine, I don't like it when they use stupid motion sensing for what is to me no good reason (metroid is the exception, it does wii controls acceptionally.) This has nothing to do with being hardcore, casual, nongamer or any of that crap it has to do with the design of the system itself. Its based entirely upon motion controls and I don't like it and that is the main reason others don't like it here as well.Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
eveileb-ekam
PS - If any devs hate the wii its because they put more shovelware on it and it didn't sell because it was crap. Not because of nintendo their game just sucked.
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"][QUOTE="BlackSubmarine"]Just because you like the wii, doesn't mean all gamers like the wii. Very few do. Your just one of the special ones.
btw I am in many gaming forums, and they barely have any sheeps. Now I see where the sheeps have migrated to, gamespot.
Ratchet_Fan8
I honestly am not interested in your posting life. Am I a gamer or not?
40 year old grandma plays wii..shes a gamer right?Why are you avoiding the question? (40 year old grandma's??? Damn young). Naruto, answer the question.
The Wii is epic fail at its worst. It only has a few good games, which pale in comparison to games on the other consoles anyways. It gets boring pretty fast, has a bunch of worthless peripherals and gimmicks, and isn't really that fun to play. The Gamecube, while it didn't do so hot, was still a respectable system. The Wii is not, it talks down to gamers and laughs in their faces. They Nintendo has the nerve to make Link a sword that turns into a statue girl and 4 player Mario Bros. with two weird Toads as your partners and no online play, no nothing, just co-op. They get by doing the bare minimum they can do to generate sales. They give us the games they feel like giving us, not the games we want.
Ovirew
Nintendo's sales volume proves you wrong. If you replaced the word "we" with the word, "I", then your position might be more valid. As it stands, you're in the minority. Just because you WISH that more people thought like you does not make it so.
[QUOTE="W1NGMAN-"]
Is it fair to say the hate all started with Nintendo's 08 E3? I remember Sony having a bad E3 in 06 and after that the hate carried on up until what MGS4? E3 is the root to all the hate I say!
ActicEdge
That has something to do with it for sure. But the hate was from the second they announced it so I assume it started earlier. E3 08 was truly an embarrassment.
Well every console gets slammed before release, I don't think it got any out of the ordinary....Sony had the whole 600 dollar price point, on top of that they were viewed as being arrogant AND got caught lying about the whole KZ2 and Motorstorm videos being real time, were as Nintendo was slammed for the tech under the Wiis hood...
Fastforward a couple of years later, the PS3 is now 299, Sonys been releasing top notch first party titles, and putting a ton of effort in making PSN as good as XBL without charging a dime...
Now Nintendo's viewed as the arrogant one especially after the E3 08 showing , now the 249 price point is looking way overpriced, the wiimote isn't what everyone thought it was gonna be but the Wii motion plus looks to change that, they haven't given their online a second thought...
but I think at the end of the day it's the software line up doesn't match up with the amount of popularity the Wii receives from the mass market.
I'm not sure if any of this cohencides with what the OP was about but I tried my best to try and make sense of it all.
40 year old grandma plays wii..shes a gamer right?Ratchet_Fan8Totally. A gamer is somebody that plays videogames, not some kind of social club.
i like the wii, i just dont like the people that i know who think its the greatest console on earth and bash the PS3 and 360
40 year old grandma plays wii..shes a gamer right?[QUOTE="Ratchet_Fan8"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
I honestly am not interested in your posting life. Am I a gamer or not?
ActicEdge
Why are you avoiding the question? (40 year old grandma's??? Damn young). Naruto, answer the question.
No...if you know what i mean >_> A random women who is 50 years old playing a game on the wii makes them a gamer..no?Video game journalists are the scourge of the industry, do not take them seriously. They are the reason video games are looked down upon. They portray it the way the average person see it, as the whimsy of the modern kidult.
[QUOTE="tok1879"][QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]Yeah, that's another reason... I don't like the styIe of games it has to offer.Though, i won't consider myself elitist, i do concede that your first paragraph(relating to the success of the wii) applies to me. But everything afterward is just your theory which i believe is not correct. There are gamers after all who did buy the Wii(definitely not me though, hated that thing from the beginning) but got turned off by either or a combination of its lack of enough good games, the controls or even the graphics. And what exactly is the benefit of 3rd party developers not dictating the console sales? How is that beneficial to you or me as gamers? The way I see it, we consumers (PC gamer, casual, hardcore, elitist, and non-gamer) should dictate the console sales not 3rd party. Afterall, we are the ones buying the games and console. If 3rd party developers only caters on one gamer group (elitist), it could lead to financial disaster as other gaming groups are isolated. Surprisingly, filling the gap of other gaming groups is what Nintendo did on Wii. So it isn't exactly beneficial for 3rd party developer to dictate the market rather consumers should. Just remember, as I also learn it the hard way, we are not the only gamers. These other gaming group are the majority especially the casuals. The Wii offered something that the casual and non-gamer like, and you cannot hate that.Zaistev_basic
Okay so i look at the Wii, and i see that it has the least percentage of gamers. I'm looking at Nintendo and seeing them come out with stuff like Wii play, Wii fit and Wii music. I'm looking at third parties, and seeing things like new interesting stuff like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, SFIV, so i ask you again, as a gamer who is into the types of games i listed(in the third party developer portion), how does Nintendo selling a majority of their consoles to people who are into Wii fit and "not letting the third party developers dictate console sales" benefit me?
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"][QUOTE="Ratchet_Fan8"]40 year old grandma plays wii..shes a gamer right?Ratchet_Fan8
Why are you avoiding the question? (40 year old grandma's??? Damn young). Naruto, answer the question.
No...if you know what i mean >_> A random women who is 50 years old playing a game on the wii makes them a gamer..no?Why not?
I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Bioshock was never an exclusive to start with.Also Wii suffers alot from not having those amazing AAA multiplat games (gta4,assassins creed,resident evil 5,burnout,mirrors edge,etc etc) Strange enough, depsite lack of AAA multiplat from HD gaming, it manage to outsell the competition. It's all due to market differentiation. Consumers know what they're getting on Wii while HD gaming have 3 choices: PS3, X360. and PC. These three systems really are competiting on the same market segment while the Wii is almost solely getting the casual market, which is the largest consumer block in the video game market. Thus, this explains why Wii has higher sales. It has no serious competition on the casual market in which HD gaming had outcasted and isolated.What are you on about, I don't hate the wii because it's made by nintendo, nor do most the people on here. Quit pooping out arguements that aren't even relevant. The fact of the matter is the wii represents everything I dislike. Most games are easy, simple and for the most part don't appeal to me. I like mario, I like metroid, and I like zelda just fine, I don't like it when they use stupid motion sensing for what is to me no good reason (metroid is the exception, it does wii controls acceptionally.) This has nothing to do with being hardcore, casual, nongamer or any of that crap it has to do with the design of the system itself. Its based entirely upon motion controls and I don't like it and that is the main reason others don't like it here as well.[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]
Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
falconclan
PS - If any devs hate the wii its because they put more shovelware on it and it didn't sell because it was crap. Not because of nintendo their game just sucked.
I bet you most of the people that hate the Wii have not got one, really tried one or have played its best games. Watch the Invisible Walls video, and then tell me that they dont hate Nintendo and therefore hate the Wii. Its like they have been chomping at the bit, waiting for something to come along so they can say "have it, Nintendo is doomed, its going to die, the Wii is on life support, blah blah blah."
TC was not asking why people dislike the Wii, and so my argument is therefore relevant. You need to read the OP more carefully, I think. He asked why people inherently hate the Wii. Ill repeat myself for clarity - inherently hate. He did not ask why people dislike the Wii. Therefore it is your argument that is irrelevant.
No...if you know what i mean >_> A random women who is 50 years old playing a game on the wii makes them a gamer..no?[QUOTE="Ratchet_Fan8"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
Why are you avoiding the question? (40 year old grandma's??? Damn young). Naruto, answer the question.
ActicEdge
Why not?
Its more about quantity man, I guess she could be a gamer, but does she only play wii bowling? Does that really mean that she's a gamer. Thats like me going and playing 1 round of golf a year, am I a golfer? If I install a light socket am I suddenly an electrician? If I pound on some drums for an hour every month am I a drummer? Probably not, but I think you see where this is going. Are you a gamer? Probably, why else would you waste your life on gamespot.Well, i'm sure you're being honest when you say you enjoyed the Wii more, but unfortunately for you but fortunately for me, you're in the minority when considering gamers(people who like gaming enough to frequent sites like gamespot).I can easily say I enjoyed the Wii more than the 360. Honestly the 360 has even LESS good exclusives than the Wii. Some 360 games are so overrated to the point people want to burn the game down (cough*Halo3*cough). The people complaining about the Wii's lack of good exclusives should really take a look at the 360's exclusive line-up before they start bashing lack of exclusives on Wii. Sure, 2010 looks like a pretty good year for the 360, but let's face it, some "exclusives" will end up being ported to the PC or PS3. Bioshock is a fine example. It stayed on the 360 for awhile... then got ported to the PS3.
Brawl578
The way I see it, we consumers (PC gamer, casual, hardcore, elitist, and non-gamer) should dictate the console sales not 3rd party. Afterall, we are the ones buying the games and console. If 3rd party developers only caters on one gamer group (elitist), it could lead to financial disaster as other gaming groups are isolated. Surprisingly, filling the gap of other gaming groups is what Nintendo did on Wii. So it isn't exactly beneficial for 3rd party developer to dictate the market rather consumers should. Just remember, as I also learn it the hard way, we are not the only gamers. These other gaming group are the majority especially the casuals. The Wii offered something that the casual and non-gamer like, and you cannot hate that.[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"][QUOTE="tok1879"] Though, i won't consider myself elitist, i do concede that your first paragraph(relating to the success of the wii) applies to me. But everything afterward is just your theory which i believe is not correct. There are gamers after all who did buy the Wii(definitely not me though, hated that thing from the beginning) but got turned off by either or a combination of its lack of enough good games, the controls or even the graphics. And what exactly is the benefit of 3rd party developers not dictating the console sales? How is that beneficial to you or me as gamers?tok1879
Okay so i look at the Wii, and i see that it has the least percentage of gamers. I'm looking at Nintendo and seeing them come out with stuff like Wii play, Wii fit and Wii music. I'm looking at third parties, and seeing things like new interesting stuff like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, SFIV, so i ask you again, as a gamer who is into the types of games i listed(in the third party developer portion), how does Nintendo selling a majority of their consoles to people who are into Wii fit and "not letting the third party developers dictate console sales" benefit me?
Who are you to judge whether who's a gamer or not. If a person plays games, he/she is a gamer. That is exactly an elitist view (in general). Just because he/she does not play your kind of gaming, he/she is not a gamer? Just because it does not benefit you, does not mean you should hate it (again this is an elitist view in general). You're saying that you wish these other gamers should be outcast and isolated while you elitist gamers should be only pleased. How can the industry support a minority (elitist) and ignore the majority (casuals). That would be financial suicide. The reason why 3rd parties nowadays are making games for casuals and less on your type of gaming because the last time they did that has lead to financial catastrope. Get real, don't hate the player (Wii), hate the game.
Making general accusations about gametrailers is a good way to discredit your defense against general accusations about the wii, although I agree with most of your points at the bottom. There are plenty of episodes of IW that defend the wii and rip on the other systems.
Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
eveileb-ekam
Its more about quantity man, I guess she could be a gamer, but does she only play wii bowling? Does that really mean that she's a gamer. Thats like me going and playing 1 round of golf a year, am I a golfer? If I install a light socket am I suddenly an electrician? If I pound on some drums for an hour every month am I a drummer? Probably not, but I think you see where this is going. Are you a gamer? Probably, why else would you waste your life on gamespot.
falconclan
That's what additional labels such as professional, amateur, hardcore, and casual were invented for.
Might break the record for the system with the most shovel ware in the history of gaming. Few games have any depth. And honestly I don't hate it. But if I didn't own a Xbox 360 and PS3 I would be a true hater! Because I would be so angry with the lack of quality games that actually have some depth. Inferior graphics to Xbox in most games and the lack of quality sports games.
It was not a general accusation. I was referring to the comments posted in relation to the Invisible Walls video where they spewed nonsense drivel about the Wii being dead in the water. Thats a bit more specific ;)Making general accusations about gametrailers is a good way to discredit your defense against general accusations about the wii, although I agree with most of your points at the bottom.
[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]
Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
topgunmv
[QUOTE="falconclan"]
Its more about quantity man, I guess she could be a gamer, but does she only play wii bowling? Does that really mean that she's a gamer. Thats like me going and playing 1 round of golf a year, am I a golfer? If I install a light socket am I suddenly an electrician? If I pound on some drums for an hour every month am I a drummer? Probably not, but I think you see where this is going. Are you a gamer? Probably, why else would you waste your life on gamespot.
Technoweirdo
That's what additional labels such as professional, amateur, hardcore, and casual were invented for.
but the labels are stupid, they are ill defined and never work right because everyone sees them differently. If there was one definition to each it would work fine, but we can't seem to do that. Honestly I don't see what all the business about being a gamer is, its not exactly something to be proud of, perhaps I am still living in the days of old when playing video games did nothing but get you looked down upon.All in all, I think if you play games, you know whether you are a gamer, or whether you just do it from time to time to pass the day.
There are also episodes where they defend the wii and bash the other systems. They switch their stance depending on whats going on. Your posting reminds me of that fox news piece with the heading "sexbox?" where they talked up mass effect as a big porn fest based on one small sampling.
[QUOTE="topgunmv"]It was not a general accusation. I was referring to the comments posted in relation to the Invisible Walls video where they spewed nonsense drivel about the Wii being dead in the water. Thats a bit more specific ;)Making general accusations about gametrailers is a good way to discredit your defense against general accusations about the wii, although I agree with most of your points at the bottom.
[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]
Lets just skip all of the rhetoric about shovelware, lack of games, the input method, the online - because we all know that Nintendo's consoles have been the same since the NES, and the arguments have just shifted and used different words.
Kiddy Vs Mature, Casual Vs Hardcore, is all the same old same old.
Just admit it. Fanboys, developers, publishers and enthusiast press hate the Wii simply because its made by Nintendo.
They were always going to hate it anyway. The comments when the Wii was revealed proved that.
Then the Wii became the top selling console of the generation, and Nintendo became market leader, effectively multiplying the already persistent Nintendo hate.
TC should be asking "what is it about Nintendo that makes so many of you inherently hate them?". Then he would perhaps get proper answers rather than "teh waggle" and "casual shovelware lulz". (they are reasons to dislike a console guys, not inherently hate it.)
I believe the reason everyone that hates Nintendo with such a passion does so because of all Nintendo's stacked up flaws. Developers hate them because Nintendo was a pain in the ass to work with during the 8 and 16 bit days, right up to using cartiridges and stupidly sized discs. Fanboys hate it because they likely grew into Sony's expanded market during the PS1 era, when it was cool to game, and Nintendo was too "kiddy". After all, those children grew up to be the kind of manchildren that exist on shows like Invisible Walls, and in the comments section of Game Trailers. And publishers hate them because Nintendo consistently released top quality software that proves to be part of the best of of each generation (Super Mario Bros, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Prime, Galaxy ect).
eveileb-ekam
[QUOTE="falconclan"]Its more about quantity man, I guess she could be a gamer, but does she only play wii bowling? Does that really mean that she's a gamer. Thats like me going and playing 1 round of golf a year, am I a golfer? If I install a light socket am I suddenly an electrician? If I pound on some drums for an hour every month am I a drummer? Probably not, but I think you see where this is going. Are you a gamer? Probably, why else would you waste your life on gamespot.
IronBass
Your analogies are flawed.
All the terms you compared "gamer" with need something else than doing the activity.
A golfer is somebody that plays golf at a competitive level.
An electrician is somebody that has that profesion.
A drummer is somebody that has mastered the instrument.
Gaming has not such restrictions.
But this is your term, this is how you interpret it, and it may very well be true that you see it this way, but its not the same way with me. If we have a universal ideal of what it is to be a gamer, I'd go by it, but for now I see gaming as the same thing, to me I have mastered games, I do play competitively and at one time and possibly again some day, it was my profession.[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
[QUOTE="W1NGMAN-"]
Is it fair to say the hate all started with Nintendo's 08 E3? I remember Sony having a bad E3 in 06 and after that the hate carried on up until what MGS4? E3 is the root to all the hate I say!
W1NGMAN-
That has something to do with it for sure. But the hate was from the second they announced it so I assume it started earlier. E3 08 was truly an embarrassment.
Well every console gets slammed before release, I don't think it got any out of the ordinary....Sony had the whole 600 dollar price point, on top of that they were viewed as being arrogant AND got caught lying about the whole KZ2 and Motorstorm videos being real time, were as Nintendo was slammed for the tech under the Wiis hood...
Fastforward a couple of years later, the PS3 is now 299, Sonys been releasing top notch first party titles, and putting a ton of effort in making PSN as good as XBL without charging a dime...
Now Nintendo's viewed as the arrogant one especially after the E3 08 showing , now the 249 price point is looking way overpriced, the wiimote isn't what everyone thought it was gonna be but the Wii motion plus looks to change that, they haven't given their online a second thought...
but I think at the end of the day it's the software line up doesn't match up with the amount of popularity the Wii receives from the mass market.
I'm not sure if any of this cohencides with what the OP was about but I tried my best to try and make sense of it all.
I think it did. Thedifference between Sony and the Wii is Sony did that E3 to themselves, (it was literally them setting themselves up for hate)nintendo was simply hated because of what they brought to the table even though there wasn't an actual problem with it yet. (notice the emphasis on that word)
Sony has done well, now yes.
As for Nintendo the perception has been skewed. I didn't see E3 08 as arrogant, I just saw it as poor. I think they just weren't ready with new games yet is my biggest thing. E3 08 didn't have Nintendo putting the finger up at gamers, it was an embarrassment but not all they did until this year. If you follow nintendo news you would see they have been actively been seeking to improve there relations with the like of eastern developers/publishers because they way they conduct business does not gho hand in hand with western ones. The fact that they look overpriced isn't there entire fault either, they were selling at that price. Do gamers honestly think it makes sense to drop the price? I'm not asking about want but rather common sense. The wiimote was really overhyped by everyone except nintendo lol. I wish I could have seen them hype the thing but all I saw was what it is now with Ubisoft being really misleading. Granted I see your point but I just see skewed perception of what nintendo is. But really its the bolded that bothers a few of us, we are trying to look at delivering from the perspective of everyone on the market, every system sold. Most of the industryare seeing it from the core demographic. Except gaming isn't a small bubble so why is the view always so narrow.?
It was not a general accusation. I was referring to the comments posted in relation to the Invisible Walls video where they spewed nonsense drivel about the Wii being dead in the water. Thats a bit more specific ;)There are also episodes where they defend the wii and bash the other systems. They switch their stance depending on whats going on. Your posting reminds me of that fox news piece with the heading "sexbox?" where they talked up mass effect as a big porn fest based on one small sampling.
[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]
topgunmv
Its hardly the same. At all.
Whatever console they bash, theyre still man children and its offending to refer to them as journalists. But that specific video and the ensuing comments were referenced in this thread, so that is what I went by.
[QUOTE="tok1879"]
[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"] The way I see it, we consumers (PC gamer, casual, hardcore, elitist, and non-gamer) should dictate the console sales not 3rd party. Afterall, we are the ones buying the games and console. If 3rd party developers only caters on one gamer group (elitist), it could lead to financial disaster as other gaming groups are isolated. Surprisingly, filling the gap of other gaming groups is what Nintendo did on Wii. So it isn't exactly beneficial for 3rd party developer to dictate the market rather consumers should. Just remember, as I also learn it the hard way, we are not the only gamers. These other gaming group are the majority especially the casuals. The Wii offered something that the casual and non-gamer like, and you cannot hate that.Zaistev_basic
Okay so i look at the Wii, and i see that it has the least percentage of gamers. I'm looking at Nintendo and seeing them come out with stuff like Wii play, Wii fit and Wii music. I'm looking at third parties, and seeing things like new interesting stuff like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, SFIV, so i ask you again, as a gamer who is into the types of games i listed(in the third party developer portion), how does Nintendo selling a majority of their consoles to people who are into Wii fit and "not letting the third party developers dictate console sales" benefit me?
Who are you to judge whether who's a gamer or not. If a person plays games, he/she is a gamer. That is exactly an elitist view (in general). Just because he/she does not play you kind of gaming, he/she is not a gamer? Just because it does not benefit you, does not mean you should hate it (again this is an elitist view in general). You're saying that you wish these other gamers should be outcast and isolated while you elitist gamers should be only pleased. How can the industry support a minority (elitist) and ignore the majority (casuals). That would be financial suicide. The reason why 3rd parties nowadays are making games for casuals and less on your type of gaming because the last time they didthat has lead to financial catastrope. Get real, don't hate the player (Wii), hate the game. I'm sorry i didn't elaborate on what i meant when referring to a gamer. When i say gamer, i mean someone like you or me who actually care about gaming enough to come to websites like this. When we put everyone under that same "gamer" umbrella i would have to include my aunt who hated(and still does actually) the idea of me or my cousins playing videogames when we were younger, but can't seem to get away from her PC solitaire. Sony did fine in the last generation, they supported both casual and hardcore. Nobody called them out because of this. It IS possible to support the casual and hardcore. For me, i could never bring myself to support the Wii even from the beginning because they never took that next step from the previous generation, the technological step that was present in every change of gaming gens, from NES to SNES to 64 and to GC. And let me set you straight on this, i only hate the player because i hate its game. Point in case, i would hate Sony or M$ as much if the Wii was theirs. Sony started this gen with a plasticky, cheap feeling controller without the rumble with silly claims that it was last gen, and i called them out on it. I don't care about as much about these companies as i care about MY HOBBY, GAMING!![QUOTE="IronBass"]
[QUOTE="falconclan"]Its more about quantity man, I guess she could be a gamer, but does she only play wii bowling? Does that really mean that she's a gamer. Thats like me going and playing 1 round of golf a year, am I a golfer? If I install a light socket am I suddenly an electrician? If I pound on some drums for an hour every month am I a drummer? Probably not, but I think you see where this is going. Are you a gamer? Probably, why else would you waste your life on gamespot.
falconclan
Your analogies are flawed.
All the terms you compared "gamer" with need something else than doing the activity.
A golfer is somebody that plays golf at a competitive level.
An electrician is somebody that has that profesion.
A drummer is somebody that has mastered the instrument.
Gaming has not such restrictions.
But this is your term, this is how you interpret it, and it may very well be true that you see it this way, but its not the same way with me. If we have a universal ideal of what it is to be a gamer, I'd go by it, but for now I see gaming as the same thing, to me I have mastered games, I do play competitively and at one time and possibly again some day, it was my profession.So most of SW is not this demographic then because they lack your skill and knowledge correct?
]1. I have yet to find a platformer on the ps3/360 that better than SMG.The Wii is epic fail at its worst. It only has a few good games, which pale in comparison to games on the other consoles anyways. It gets boring pretty fast, has a bunch of worthless peripherals and gimmicks, and isn't really that fun to play. The Gamecube, while it didn't do so hot, was still a respectable system. The Wii is not, it talks down to gamers and laughs in their faces. They Nintendo has the nerve to make Link a sword that turns into a statue girl and 4 player Mario Bros. with two weird Toads as your partners and no online play, no nothing, just co-op. They get by doing the bare minimum they can do to generate sales. They give us the games they feel like giving us, not the games we want.
Ovirew
2. OH NOES! How dare nintendo give us another zelda! How dare they give the master sword an identity! :roll:
get over yourself. The zelda series has had ****ing talking boats and hats. A sword turning into a girl isn't too far off.
I see. To be fair they aren't any less journalistic than the news on television already is. At least some of them have backgrounds in the business. One guy was part of the PR department for monolith for a long time, so when he makes an observation, the experience is at least there to backup some of the claims.
[QUOTE="topgunmv"]
There are also episodes where they defend the wii and bash the other systems. They switch their stance depending on whats going on. Your posting reminds me of that fox news piece with the heading "sexbox?" where they talked up mass effect as a big porn fest based on one small sampling.
[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"] It was not a general accusation. I was referring to the comments posted in relation to the Invisible Walls video where they spewed nonsense drivel about the Wii being dead in the water. Thats a bit more specific ;)eveileb-ekam
Its hardly the same. At all.
Whatever console they bash, theyre still man children and its offending to refer to them as journalists. But that specific video and the ensuing comments were referenced in this thread, so that is what I went by.
But this is your term, this is how you interpret it, and it may very well be true that you see it this way, but its not the same way with me. If we have a universal ideal of what it is to be a gamer, I'd go by it, but for now I see gaming as the same thing, to me I have mastered games, I do play competitively and at one time and possibly again some day, it was my profession.[QUOTE="falconclan"]
[QUOTE="IronBass"]
Your analogies are flawed.
All the terms you compared "gamer" with need something else than doing the activity.
A golfer is somebody that plays golf at a competitive level.
An electrician is somebody that has that profesion.
A drummer is somebody that has mastered the instrument.
Gaming has not such restrictions.
ActicEdge
So most of SW is not this demographic then because they lack your skill and knowledge correct?
But everyone in SW is here for a reason though, right? Gaming? We find if a big enough interest to be here, regardless of our skill levels. Guess who is not likely to be here. The grandma we speak of.PS2 did have loads of shovelware..but it also had Amazing library with amazing games ;) Something that the wii lacks..I have been reading through the thread and find very funny how ppl bash Wii for his lower specs and great amont of shovelware and praise Ps2...
Razlses
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