The best jrpg(story and event)ever made?

FFVI.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Its better executed and less forced, more original as well, than anything with Xeno- in its title.texasgoldrush

Out of all the JRPG stories I have experienced, the character development in Suikoden 2 is among the most "forced" I've seen.

Xenogears and Xenosaga on the other hand, are able to boast more natural character development fueled by well thought out characters.

Joey's development is terrible and illogical. Suikodenapproaches "children in war" by giving the children characters far greater responsibilities than child soldiers would have in real life, and then throwing in scenes where they cry about it as if it counts as "good development."

There is one pretty pretentious "preachy" moment in Xenogears I can note, which is in ep III. Of course, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the Xenosaga games. Other than that, the Xenosaga plot is busy being good.

It should be noted that Suikoden 2 has equally dramatic scenes as Xenosaga. The difference is that Xenosaga has a good plot to back them up. Suikoden 2 on the other hand, is very shallow.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Out of all the JRPG stories I have experienced, the character development in Suikoden 2 is among the most "forced" I've seen.

Xenogears and Xenosaga on the other hand, are able to boast more natural character development fueled by well thought out characters.

Joey's development is terrible and illogical. Suikodenapproaches "children in war" by giving the children characters far greater responsibilities than child soldiers would have in real life, and then throwing in scenes where they cry about it as if it counts as "good development."

There is one pretty pretentious "preachy" moment in Xenogears I can note, which is in ep III. Of course, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the Xenosaga games. Other than that, the Xenosaga plot is busy being good.

It should be noted that Suikoden 2 has equally dramatic scenes as Xenosaga. The difference is that Xenosaga has a good plot to back them up. Suikoden 2 on the other hand, is very shallow.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] how is Suikoden II's character developement forced? Hint, it isn't. In fact, Jowy's was incredibly well done and thought out. And except for maybe one instance, Suikoden II never forces its themes or its influences. Xenogears and Xenosaga feel forced and pretentious, eevn preachy. Even Gamespot has said it. Xenogears is not a bad story, its actually pretty good, however, its not as great as fans of the game crack it up to be.texasgoldrush

Joey's development is terrible and illogical. Suikodenapproaches "children in war" by giving the children characters far greater responsibilities than child soldiers would have in real life, and then throwing in scenes where they cry about it as if it counts as "good development."

There is one pretty pretentious "preachy" moment in Xenogears I can note, which is in ep III. Of course, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the Xenosaga games. Other than that, the Xenosaga plot is busy being good.

It should be noted that Suikoden 2 has equally dramatic scenes as Xenosaga. The difference is that Xenosaga has a good plot to back them up. Suikoden 2 on the other hand, is very shallow.

"Elements influenced by the Water Margin?" The Warring kingdoms? Gensou Suikoden's connection to the Water Margin is superficial at best. Just the same with "the Warring Kingdoms." I have no interest in discussing Suikoden 2 with you. I can assure you, however, that you have no idea what I meant by Joey's development being terrible based on the argument you've made.

Xenosaga is well regarded as an excellent JRPG. The 2nd title was less popular due to gameplay changes and the 3rd title was released without notice. As for Xenogears fans, they were upset with Xenosaga because it was not exactly like Xenogears. The good elements of Xenosaga don't come from the religious or philosophical references. The story told in Xenosaga was not "about the meaning of existence."

Why all the love for FFX, that game is simply horrible. I'll go with FF7 8)

ubpoker123

Writers should never feel as if they have to "show restraint."

Tales of Vesperia.

Seriously, am i the only one who thinks that the Tales series deserves more praise than Final Fantasy?

Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy IX, and Odin Sphere.

Honorable mentions: Persona 3, Persona 4 and Muramasa: The Demon Blade.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Joey's development is terrible and illogical. Suikodenapproaches "children in war" by giving the children characters far greater responsibilities than child soldiers would have in real life, and then throwing in scenes where they cry about it as if it counts as "good development."

There is one pretty pretentious "preachy" moment in Xenogears I can note, which is in ep III. Of course, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the Xenosaga games. Other than that, the Xenosaga plot is busy being good.

It should be noted that Suikoden 2 has equally dramatic scenes as Xenosaga. The difference is that Xenosaga has a good plot to back them up. Suikoden 2 on the other hand, is very shallow.

You really don't know what your'e talking about; "Suikoden" is called "Magical Suikoden" in Japan for a reason; it bears no resemblance to the original "Water Margin" story, which has its heroes commit terrible acts of rape and violence. Any resemblance to the warring kingdoms is vague at best. I'm not going to sit here and explain to you why Suikoden II is a bad story. I have no real interest in discussing a game I dislike and you don't have a full grasp of.

Xenosaga is well regarded as an excellent JRPG. The 2nd title was less popular due to gameplay changes and the 3rd title was released without notice. As for Xenogears fans, they were upset with Xenosaga because it was not exactly like Xenogears. The good elements of Xenosaga don't come from the religious or philosophical references.

There being 108 heroes and the same number of warring states are both superficial connections. Congratulations, you pointed out exactly the superficial connections I was referring to.

You can't say why Suikoden II is a bad story because you got nothing...despite a poor translation and some script issues, its a perfectly paced, well told, mostly original JRPG storyline. I wonder why is has a nearly universal positive reception from those who have played the game. The storyline relies on realistic human emotions instead of convoluted sci fi fantasy elements with philosphy forced into the game.

You can't play the "bad translation" game with me; I played the original Japanese. Suikoden 2 doesn't have "realistic human emotions." Far from it.

Xenosaga is generally regarded as a series with a great first game, a weaker 2nd title, and a return to the greatness of the original with the final chapter. Likewise, the series scored in the 80, 70, and 80 again percentiles on metacritic.

There being 108 heroes and the same number of warring states are both superficial connections. Congratulations, you pointed out exactly the superficial connections I was referring to.

You can't say why Suikoden II is a bad story because you got nothing...despite a poor translation and some script issues, its a perfectly paced, well told, mostly original JRPG storyline. I wonder why is has a nearly universal positive reception from those who have played the game. The storyline relies on realistic human emotions instead of convoluted sci fi fantasy elements with philosphy forced into the game.

You can't play the "bad translation" game with me; I played the original Japanese. Suikoden 2 doesn't have "realistic human emotions." Far from it.

Xenosaga is generally regarded as a series with a great first game, a weaker 2nd title, and a return to the greatness of the original with the final chapter. Likewise, the series scored in the 80, 70, and 80 again percentiles on metacritic.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

There being 108 heroes and the same number of warring states are both superficial connections. Congratulations, you pointed out exactly the superficial connections I was referring to.

You can't say why Suikoden II is a bad story because you got nothing...despite a poor translation and some script issues, its a perfectly paced, well told, mostly original JRPG storyline. I wonder why is has a nearly universal positive reception from those who have played the game. The storyline relies on realistic human emotions instead of convoluted sci fi fantasy elements with philosphy forced into the game.

You can't play the "bad translation" game with me; I played the original Japanese. Suikoden 2 doesn't have "realistic human emotions." Far from it.

Xenosaga is generally regarded as a series with a great first game, a weaker 2nd title, and a return to the greatness of the original with the final chapter. Likewise, the series scored in the 80, 70, and 80 again percentiles on metacritic.

texasgoldrush

Only superficial connections to Chinese literature, which is terribly ironic given your response to Xenosaga and philosophical works.

After Final Fantasy VI, story writers from the FFVI team who were inspired by philosophical works decided to make a game. That game, which was supposed to be Final Fantasy VII, became Xenogears. Square would not continue Xenogears, so they moved to continue the series with another publisher which was legally impossible. A modification of Xenogears was devised and Xenosaga was born.

The religious elements of the games aren't terribly important. I am fairly certain I read an interview where Takahashi went as far as to suggest that elements were a "parody" of religion. Neither are the philosophical elements of these works; the Xenosaga games do not stand as philosophical interpretations of Nietzsche's works for the most part. Those who make claims that cry out "religious symbolism" and "philosophy you have to understand to understand Xenosaga," which I believe your posts are in response to, are out of the loop and are making weak appeals that hold no basis. Xenosaga is not good for these reasons and it is even harmed by its insistence in portraying some of the more creative elements in the story in a Judeo-Christian backdrop. I would not object to the use of the word "forced" in this area. Of course, because Xenosaga is not good for these reasons it is irrelevant to the point.

You keep using the word "symbolism" in reference to things that do not constitute "symbolism."

Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy X are my personal faves.

WRPGs > JRPGs. EVery JRPG that i've played has an incredibly lackluster story full of deus ex machina and nonsensical plotline flow with ridiculous hairstyles. The JRPG with the best story doesn't say much. It's like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

Xenogears has absolutely no competition when it comes to storyline, and hasn't in the 12-13 years of its existence. Even in its incomplete, badly translated state, it has infinitely more depth and originality than any other storyline in gaming to date. Often times an average story that's told well gets infinitely more praise over an original and engaging story that may have presentation or translation problems. Xenogears suffers from the latter, but those who really involve themselves in the seemingly endless layers the storyline is made up of find something with actual substance, unlike other average storylines that are universally lauded as the second coming (Mass Effect 2 comes to mind...).

Xenosaga is close to matching Xenogears, but being even more incomplete than Xenogears is, it's hard to put it over Xenogears, even though the scale and characterization may very well exceed that in Xenogears. It's a shame the vast majority of people never made it to Episode III, because it pretty much undid the damage Episode II did (although I don't think Episode II did much damage storywise aside from a few pointless detours, just in general game design), and in my opinion blew Episode I out of the water in just about every category.

Really, I just find the origins and end of existence, what "God" is, the effects of religion on politics and society, the components of our mind that dictate how we act and what we show to others, and other meaningful themes found in the Xeno series to be something other games are afraid to touch on out of fear that players will find it confusing or boring. By no means are they perfect, but they provide a side to game storytelling that very, very few others are willing to even attempt.

Xenogears has absolutely no competition when it comes to storyline, and hasn't in the 12-13 years of its existence. Even in its incomplete, badly translated state, it has infinitely more depth and originality than any other storyline in gaming to date. Often times an average story that's told well gets infinitely more praise over an original and engaging story that may have presentation or translation problems. Xenogears suffers from the latter, but those who really involve themselves in the seemingly endless layers the storyline is made up of find something with actual substance, unlike other average storylines that are universally lauded as the second coming (Mass Effect 2 comes to mind...).

Xenosaga is close to matching Xenogears, but being even more incomplete than Xenogears is, it's hard to put it over Xenogears, even though the scale and characterization may very well exceed that in Xenogears. It's a shame the vast majority of people never made it to Episode III, because it pretty much undid the damage Episode II did (although I don't think Episode II did much damage storywise aside from a few pointless detours, just in general game design), and in my opinion blew Episode I out of the water in just about every category.

Really, I just find the origins and end of existence, what "God" is, the effects of religion on politics and society, the components of our mind that dictate how we act and what we show to others, and other meaningful themes found in the Xeno series to be something other games are afraid to touch on out of fear that players will find it confusing or boring. By no means are they perfect, but they provide a side to game storytelling that very, very few others are willing to even attempt.

Melkari

It's like a brilliant paper that has grammar, punctuation, and organizational issues being shown up by ones that follow all the rules but don't have anything to say.

While Ep.2 was a detour, it was really an entire game for Jr and Momo and in that sense it was kind of cool. If the story had been more practical, they wouldn't have nearly gotten the same amount of attention.

Which is why they're so valuable.

I can never decide with this kind of stuff. Probably Chrono Trigger.

Xenogears has absolutely no competition when it comes to storyline, and hasn't in the 12-13 years of its existence. Even in its incomplete, badly translated state, it has infinitely more depth and originality than any other storyline in gaming to date. Often times an average story that's told well gets infinitely more praise over an original and engaging story that may have presentation or translation problems. Xenogears suffers from the latter, but those who really involve themselves in the seemingly endless layers the storyline is made up of find something with actual substance, unlike other average storylines that are universally lauded as the second coming (Mass Effect 2 comes to mind...).

Xenosaga is close to matching Xenogears, but being even more incomplete than Xenogears is, it's hard to put it over Xenogears, even though the scale and characterization may very well exceed that in Xenogears. It's a shame the vast majority of people never made it to Episode III, because it pretty much undid the damage Episode II did (although I don't think Episode II did much damage storywise aside from a few pointless detours, just in general game design), and in my opinion blew Episode I out of the water in just about every category.

Really, I just find the origins and end of existence, what "God" is, the effects of religion on politics and society, the components of our mind that dictate how we act and what we show to others, and other meaningful themes found in the Xeno series to be something other games are afraid to touch on out of fear that players will find it confusing or boring. By no means are they perfect, but they provide a side to game storytelling that very, very few others are willing to even attempt.

Melkari

Ummmm...Planescape Torment absolutely destroys Xenogears when it comes to storyline. This was the only game to have both a deep and complex storyline and be told incredibly well. Add the fact that the player can make choices to effect the outcome and it becomes even more incredible. Also, Planescape Torment never (or rarely)uses the blantant obvious symbolism that Xenogears and Xenosaga uses. Planescape Torment is also far more original than Xenogears as well.

Mass Effect 2 was not praised for the overall plot, it was praised for the excellent characters and character arcs it had. Most reviewers found the main plot to be disappointing at worst or servicable at best but its characters got universal acclaim.

I applaud the efforts of the "Xeno-series" to touch on issues most games don't go, however effortand results are two different things, and many stories have been much better told with less.

1. Xenogears
2. Vagrant Story
3. Final Fantasy Tactics

FF IX, VII & X

FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF Tactics

Xenogears, Xenosaga 1,2,3, Xenoblade

Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross

Vagrant Story

The Last Story

Suikoden II

Digital Devil Saga 1,2

SMT Nocturne

Persona 2 Innocent Sin, Persona 2 Eternal Punishment, Persona 3, Persona 4

Final Fantasy X

Dragon Quest 8

Persona 3

really big fan of grandia 2 and dragon quest 8 also xenosaga, shadow hearts series and the persona games

Best JRPG? That sounds oxymoronic. :PStevo_the_gamer

You would probably like Vagrant Story or Parasite Eve,

You would probably like Vagrant Story or Parasite Eve,

ActicEdge

Edit: Oh, I guess it kind of it. Damn it. Now I got to go kill it with fire. :/

The one Stevo doesn't like.

The one Stevo doesn't like.

Yangire

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

You would probably like Vagrant Story or Parasite Eve,

Stevo_the_gamer

Edit: Oh, I guess it kind of it. Damn it. Now I got to go kill it with fire. :/

Parasite Eve 2 is more of a survival horror RE game. PE1 is a straight up JRPG :P

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

You would probably like Vagrant Story or Parasite Eve,

ActicEdge

Edit: Oh, I guess it kind of it. Damn it. Now I got to go kill it with fire. :/

Parasite Eve 2 is more of a survival horror RE game. PE1 is a straight up JRPG :P

.

I can't decide... it's a draw between FFIX and FFXII

I enjoyed the shadow hearts stories mainly 1&2. 1 ending still caught me off guard.

As far as being strictly judged on the main story, I would say radiant Historia is the best I've played. Excellent pacing, great writing, unique ideas, awesome combat and a beautiful soundtrack.

However gameplay wise it's not the best I've ever played. It all depends on what we mean by "best". For instance, in terms of gameplay/ content it would be Xenoblade, Pokemon, Dragon Quest IX etc.

I never feel very comfortable saying my favorite of a specific genre since it seems like I tihnk all the other games in that genre are bad. Au contraire, I love JRPG's, alot of them.

Both of the Chrono games were pure gold. Also, FFIX.

Shenmue was badass too, but probably fits better in the cinematic RPG category that I would bundle games like Mass Effect into as well.

FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF Tactics

Xenogears, Xenosaga 1,2,3, Xenoblade

Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross

Vagrant Story

The Last Story

Suikoden II

Digital Devil Saga 1,2

SMT Nocturne

Persona 2 Innocent Sin, Persona 2 Eternal Punishment, Persona 3, Persona 4

Slayergio

totally worth to revive a 2 year old thread for this post >__>

I have to say ether Chrono Cross or Chrono Trigger.

Hard choice... SW may hate jrpgs but the genre has several legends.

totally worth to revive a 2 year old thread for this post >__>

ArchoNils2

Ha! Nice catch.

I should go back and see if I had already posted in the thread. lulz.

[QUOTE="Slayergio"]

FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF Tactics

Xenogears, Xenosaga 1,2,3, Xenoblade

Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross

Vagrant Story

The Last Story

Suikoden II

Digital Devil Saga 1,2

SMT Nocturne

Persona 2 Innocent Sin, Persona 2 Eternal Punishment, Persona 3, Persona 4

ArchoNils2

totally worth to revive a 2 year old thread for this post >__>

It feels like just yesterday that I posted in this thread! Where does the time go!? :lol: