The ps4 shows again its weakness.

@ronvalencia said:

@robert_mueller:

3. Hawaii GCN was released ahead of PS4.

Temash APU has 4 ACE units and it was released ahead of PS4.

Hints for ACE's future unit growth was from 7970's release (DEC 2012) i.e. nth count.

Did you when to school.? Since when 4 = 8.?

Not only that it was confirmed by an engineer who worked on the PS4 APu on Beyond3D that the 8 Aces were take from sony,Temach as well as Kabini were develop at the same time,the PS4 is based on Kabini,so yeah you are wrong.

Not only 8 Aces were sony's idea so was the volatile bit as well,this were customization order by sony,AMD implemented 8 Aces in Hawaii and Temach release with 4 first mean nothing as the PS4 soc was also produce at the same time and 4 and 8 are not the same.

Save up money in comparison to what? The Microsoft approach was even cheaper.

can't argue with facts microsoft really banked on the 360 brand carrying over to next gen and went ultra cheap an had the nads to charge more or the same price dunno what they were thinking consumers who read up on these systems aren't gonna buy something worse at the same price or more its like any other industry

Exactly: There is no doubt that these were explicit change requests by SONY. Thus, they prove that SONY was deliberately going for GPGPU. Nothing else matters.

@tormentos:

Again, you missed

Hints for ACE's future unit growth was from 7970's release (DEC 2012) i.e. nth count.

Yes, but it was *not* part of AMD's original proposal for the 8th gen console APU.

SONY made an explicit change request to bring this forward to the PS4 APU. And it was not the only change request in this direction that SONY made. The other two were the Onion+ bus and the volatile bit.

That is enough evidence to prove that SONY was aiming for improved GPGPU performance deliberately.

Yes there were going for it and they are from the first to exploit it to,BF4,Infamous,The tomorrow children is clear they did,not only that they were speaking of it before AMD or any company was doing so,now AMD is talking about it a little more.

The gap between the xbox one and PS4 will probably widen when compute really kick in on multiplatforms.

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos:

Again, you missed

Hints for ACE's future unit growth was from 7970's release (DEC 2012) i.e. nth count.

“I worked on modifications to the core graphics blocks. So there were features implemented because of console customers. Some will live on in PC products, some won’t. At least one change was very invasive, some moderately so. That’s all I can say.

Since Cerny mentioned it I’ll comment on the volatile flag. I didn’t know about it until he mentioned it, but looked it up and it really is new and driven by Sony. The extended ACE’s are one of the custom features I’m referring to. Also, just because something exists in the GCN doc that was public for a bit doesn’t mean it wasn’t influenced by the console customers. That’s one positive about working with consoles. Their engineers have specific requirements and really bang on the hardware and suggest new things that result in big or small improvements.”

http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-gpu-next-gen-amd-radeon-volcanic-island-gpu-compute-similarities/

BY December 2012 sony PS4 was basically finish in design and actual working soc,in fact the unit was show for the first time 2 months latter in February.

That second bold part complete destroy your argument he worked on the PS4 APU did you.?

Now carry on with your conspiracy theories.

Let him be i just owned his ass over,i quote the guy who worked on the PS4 APU about Aces,it was a modification by sony,and the document he posted is useless as it is from December 2012 by that time the PS4 Soc was already in production or ready for it,AMD and sony's deal probably is from late 2011 the customization they did which he talk about were brought in play by sony not AMD like always he just want to downplay anything PS4.

Not only more Aces will allow for faster task completion,they are modification sony did for better use of compute something the xbox one doesn't have and which explain why when Ubisoft did a compute test the gap was so huge between the 2 platforms.

@tormentos said:

@commander said:

Sorry but havok isn't part of nivida phsysX library. Havok was actually mostly used in videogames last gen.

And hat article is from 2009. You stil haven't shown me a game that uses physX

Who say Havok was part of PhysX.? Havok is a physics middle ware just like PhysX the only difference is that Havok get license to every one,unlike PhysX which Nvidia doesn't want it on AMD has.

No console out now need PhysX to run Physics and Havok like PhysX both worked on last gen consoles and still work on new ones,you are just to ignorant to get it.

Batman uses PhysX for batman cape and other cloth simulation,the Order use cloth simulation to it look incredibly impressive and doesn't use PhysX.

So not only PhysX work on PS4 is also not need it,Havok is there as well as others is up to developers to decide which middleware they chose for the job,just like choosing Unreal vs another engine.

Butbubut....lol

Yeah software physX, that will take up so much resources lmao. Hardware physX only takes an old ass videocard to compute.

Advanced warfare runs at better framerates on the x1 and dragon has an dlc exclusive to the x1.

Call of duty ghosts is from 2013 and hardline does indeed run at 900p on the ps4

But the x1 costs 100$ less with better network service.

No dude PhysX doesn't need hardware on Nvidia GPU to run period is just a library of SDK which run on multiple hardware.

Advanced warfare runs better on single player where the xbox one has dynamic resolution,i give an example on this already,the xbox one drops to 1360x1080p when any action take place that is the reason it drops so that frames don't get affected,is not running full 1080p like the PS4 is.

And online is another 2 cents where the CPU actually kick harder the PS4 version is 60FPS like the xbox one,but the xbox one is always 1360x1080p dynamic resolution is off online.

So online which is COD bread and butter the PS4 is 60FPS 1080p the xbox one version is not.

And several games already have DLC exclusive on PS4,Destiny was one of them,and Batman will to.

Not it is $50 less for weaker hardware with less games and lower scoring ones,nice you see you change your argument from hardware..lol

Yes it does, there's not a single game on the console that runs the physx effects that are extra on pc, end of story.

Even if you would drop the resolution on the ps4 it would still run at worse framerates because of the cpu.

The xboxone has already been on sale for 300$ and it may have a weaker gpu, it's sure nice to have a better cpu when that's the main culprit in next gen games lol.

If the CPU is the main culprit, then the developers have made the wrong design decisions. They should load off work to the GPU until the GPU is saturated.

Yes, I know that there are tasks that are too branch-heavy for GPGPU. Those still have to be executed on the CPU of course. But everything else should be moved to the GPU in order to free enough CPU resources for those tasks that cannot be offloaded to the GPU.

Not really , it's more the console makers that made the wrong decisions. It was a different story last gen, then the devs couldn't make a stronger console and the devs ran into gpu bottlenecks and ram bottlenecks (like with crysis). They could have released a console with more ram but the consoles were already very expensive.

This gen both cheaped out. Especially microsoft of course but microsoft does know a lot more about hardware and operating systems than sony, they have the same cpu and they manage too squeeze 25 percent more out of it. The stuff they pull off with that weak ass 7770 is admirable at least as well.

@tormentos:

That slide was from 2011

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2011/06/17/radical-changes-in-the-architecture-of-amd-s-future-gpus

Dated: 17th of June, 2011. About 6 years after Xbox 360's release.

Notice

1. 7970 has 3 compute shader pipes i.e. two from ACE units and 1 from GCP.

2. ACE CP has Nth count.

3, Primitive Pipe has Nth count.

Both Microsoft and Sony based from their licensed IP from Sea Islands NOT from Southern Islands.

Southern Islands(7970) already has ACE units with nth count i.e. AMD can scale it at will.

From http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/03/ps3-successor-orbis-rumored-for-late-2013-ties-retail-games-to-online-accounts/

PS4's rumors started around March 2012.

---------------

From http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/5

Dated: Dec, 2010 (about five years after Xbox 360's release), while you are talking about virtues of PS3's CELL.

Radeon HD 6970 already has the following

1. "Asynchronous dispatch" which was exposed under OpenCL in the form of an extension". Compute has asynchronous features.

The limit of NVIDIA’s design is that while Fermi can execute multiple kernels at once, each one must come from the same CPU thread. Independent threads/applications for example cannot issue their own kernels and have them execute in parallel, rather the GPU must context switch between them. With asynchronous dispatch AMD is going to allow independent threads/applications to issue kernels that execute in parallel.

GCN's ACE unit enables out of order asynchronous compute i.e. a queue can stall while other queues can continue. This is about controlling the command stream from GPU's POV instead of from the CPU's POV. This is different from out-of-order wave-front processing i.e. independent ready wave-front can jump the queue.

Also, GCN's ACE unit enables the CPU to place the compute instructions on a queue and do something else. On Cayman, it's the CPU's responsibility to queue the compute instructions for the GPU. Cayman itself supports Async compute dispatch.

Hints for DirectX12/Mantle's parallel async compute originated from 6970.

2. Second DMA engine. The DMA engines enables two concurrent reads and two writes concurrent operations. This is to enhance async compute. All GCNs has dual DMA engine feature which is inherited from Cayman.

3. Feature to bypass cache cache hierarchy (L1, L2) via LDS (local data storage).

4. Two Rasterizer units

7770 only has half of Cayman's dual graphics engines.

This is where you get XBO's and PS4's duel graphics engines. GCN's greater than 7770 has the feature.

"AMD can scale the number of graphics engines at will" - Anandtech quoting AMD claims, 2010

Points towards R9-290X/R9-285's graphics engine scaling i.e. 2X of the above.

It's too bad AMD abandoned 6970 for DX12, while NVIDIA still supports DX12 for Fermi.

Octodad runs PhysX on PS4 you idiot...hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Advance Warfare is 60FPS on PS4 online while been 1080p the xbox one is 1360x1080p because dynamic resolution would have send the frames down period,funny isn't that online where CPU is more active the PS4 actually command a lead..lol

An offer is not the same as normal price,it is $349 period and is been outsold to hell and beyond people don't want it.

“I worked on modifications to the core graphics blocks. So there were features implemented because of console customers. Some will live on in PC products, some won’t. At least one change was very invasive, some moderately so. That’s all I can say.

Since Cerny mentioned it I’ll comment on the volatile flag. I didn’t know about it until he mentioned it, but looked it up and it really is new and driven by Sony. The extended ACE’s are one of the custom features I’m referring to. Also, just because something exists in the GCN doc that was public for a bit doesn’t mean it wasn’t influenced by the console customers. That’s one positive about working with consoles. Their engineers have specific requirements and really bang on the hardware and suggest new things that result in big or small improvements.”

http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-gpu-next-gen-amd-radeon-volcanic-island-gpu-compute-similarities/

You have no argument period Aces increase was sony idea just like the volatile bit.

• Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

Is not like we didn't know this already.is incredible how emotionally invested you are in proving that sony can't do anything right,it most be killing you that the PS4 mop the floor with the xbox one..hahahaa

It was sony idea stated by the guy who worked on that GPU for the PS4,you weren't there so you know shit.

Yup, PS4 is gimped for the rest of this gen. and just wait until X1 starts off loading CPU AI & NPC routines to StormCloud... oh my... gonna be a bumpy road for PS4. :P

He was waiting for the end level to load in bloodborne

1. Octodad?.

looks like a game from 2 gens ago, physx is running on the cpu here lmao

2. Sure the xboxone gets better frames with a lower resolution? The resolution isn't that low, the framerates are better on the x1 because of the superior cpu power, end of story

3 Whatever, I haven't seen 50$ discounts on the ps4. The xboxone is cheaper and the ps4 is gimped

lol

7970 has 4 Async hardware queues i.e. two ACE units with two hardware queues each.

A correction from a developer (non-Sony).

GCP itself has a source for compute shaders(CS).

7970's command queues consumption rate is faster than PS4 i.e. 7970's has larger CU count and faster PC CPU feed.

The net result, 7970 delivers low render time per frame than PS4

1-Is not how it look moron physic have to do with how things behave,and now you running to hide on the CPU nice one my argument was PhysX runs on PS4 not that it did run on the GPU nice owning your self ass.

2-The PS4 is 60FPS online where the CPU has to work more that alone kill your theory.

3-Is $349 and the xbox one is even more gimped and with more than 80 games less.

The extended ACE’s are one of the custom features I’m referring to. Also, just because something exists in the GCN doc that was public for a bit doesn’t mean it wasn’t influenced by the console customers.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

Again if you can't grasp what that architect is saying then your dumber than i ever tough possible,is very easy to see.

Sad thing is that only like 2% of people who play gtav on PS4 would've noticed all of those "complaints" you listed. There are still gamers out there who take what they get and have tons of fun. Gamers are being too needy and spoiled. Pretty soon you'll see people complaining about the graphics of the actual real world.

There seems to be a lot of misconception regarding Physx in this thread. While old CPU physx definitely had some problems, the current CPU Physx implementation is very efficient. Current Physx can be 2-3 times faster than older Physx and is now notably faster than Bullet is (I haven't seen any direct same engine comparisons to Havok). CPU Physx is a more than competent physics engine nowadays; Unreal 4 uses Physx however only the CPU portion, completely leaving out the GPU Physx in the base engine, Epic has said that in some things the newest CPU Physx implementation is faster than the old GPU implementation. Nvidia is also choosing to use Directcompute over CUDA for some GPU accelerated stuff. For example Hairworks, Turbulence, Flameworks, TurfEffects use Directcompute instead of CUDA,. This means it can be easily supported by AMD cards and more readily ported to consoles, though in true Nvidia fashion, Hairworks on AMD is optimized a lot worse than Nvidia.

@tormentos:

Couldn't find the word "customers." in http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1 link

This statement is your manufacture

"The extended ACE’s are one of the custom features I’m referring to. Also, just because something exists in the GCN doc that was public for a bit doesn’t mean it wasn’t influenced by the console customers."

AMD already claimed command processor scalability from 6970 era.

All Sony did is to request AMD to follow through the scalability claim.

I have both PS4, XO and also an awesome gaming PC, I reckon unless you're a big Halo fan having a PS4 and decent PC is the best possible combination. PS4 for the range of brilliant exclusives and PC to max out all the graphically incredible games like The Witcher 3 and Dying Light.

@commander said:

@SecretPolice said:

Yup, PS4 is gimped for the rest of this gen. and just wait until X1 starts off loading CPU AI & NPC routines to StormCloud... oh my... gonna be a bumpy road for PS4. :P

He was waiting for the end level to load in bloodborne

hahahaha, yeah man, my son's a huge souls fan and bought a PS4 just for it ( dumb, dumb, he must take after his mom in that respect :P ) and he told me that... the waaaaiittinng is the haaaaaardest paart. :P

PS4 is the best next gen console.....deal with this.

"The extended ACE’s are one of the custom features I’m referring to. Also, just because something exists in the GCN doc that was public for a bit doesn’t mean it wasn’t influenced by the console customers."

If you can't grasp that is not my problem,not only sony pushed for 8 ACES it is also the PS4 the first platform to take advantage of it,and i am sure it will increase.

Well that's what tormentos can't seem to get. He claims that physics are much easier done on the gpu, which is partially true. He posted a video saying that physx took 6 times more power on the gpu , or something like that.

When we laughed at him saying, that physX isn't the same physics. He starts blabbering about the fact that physx is a physics engine, that nvidia has a physx librabry which is more than cuda physX alone and that physx is on next gen consoles.

That might all be true but the fact is that the video he posted doesn't have anything to do with the cpu physX you and him are talking about. Cuda physx takes a lot more resources when you run it of the cpu, since it's made for cuda cores on nivdia and the cpu emulates it. When you run physx or todays computer physics in general directly of the cpu it doesn't take that many resources. It's of course different when you start doing very detailed physics on hundreds of npc's. Then it could be a better idea to use the gpu a lot more for calculations

But the cpu will always play a role here, since the cpu has less latency and faster threads. What you can do is use a ppu (physics processing unit, which combines the low latency of the cpu and the multi core architecture of the gpu.) but both next gen consoles don't have this. They actually don't make ppu's anymore because current cpu's and gpu's, especially combined can easily handle those tasks and have room to spare.

And that's why the whole gpgpu advantage is greatly exaggerated in this debate. More gpgpu work will always come with cpu work and in a already bottlenecking cpu scenario it doesn't mean that a stronger gpu can just make up for the shortage in cpu power, it can alleviate it for sure but like we saw in ac unity, a cpu bottleneck simply made the game run a lot worse on the ps4. Even after patches and optimizations the games still runs worse on the ps4, simply because that cpu bottleneck is bringing the whole system down.

So while the ps4 may have a big advantage in a lot of games, it has a major disadvantage in a lot of games as well, especially with that 7th core unlocked on the x1. The only thing is , we haven't seen that disantvange a lot yet, simply because that 7th core only unlocked in january and because most games up until now are nothing more than last gen games (or games running on last gen engines) in higher resolution and/or higher detail settings.

ac unity brought the series into the next gen, and they needed a lot of cpu for it. Other games like dragon age inquisition didn't have the same problem because they only focussed on detail settings of monster and npc. Crowds and living breathing cities are more an assassins creed thing. There are other (upcoming) open world games like that , and you can be sure that that cpu advantage in the x1 will show.

First of all moron,the video i posted still is 100% true why because it compares PhysX CPU vs GPU and the GPU give the CPU a runs for its money.

Second Physics don't need to be from Nvidia to run on PS4,again a proprietary one or Havok will do fine,and the end result would be the same faster physics on the GPU PhysX or Havok were both irrelevant because the point is the GPU is faster at those and it is.

PhysX is the same as Physics you moron and you and another moron who doesn't know that were the only 2 laughing.

PhysX is just the name on Nvidia physics engine nothing more,is just like Havok you are just to moron to understand it.

The video i posted showed PhysX on CPU vs GPU regardless of what engine is it will always run faster on the GPU..lol

The 7 core of the xbox one can't even be use fully and i already explained that to you,only like 30% can be use and there is no way of telling how much is free is basically useless.

Published on Feb 21, 2013

A high resolution look at Havok Physics technology demonstrated at Sony's live event in New York. This demo shows a million particle real-time physics simulation running on the GPU of the Playstation 4.

But but but Physics can only run on Cuda on the GPU,like i already told you the PS4 doesn't need PhysX to run physics on the GPU and basically no one use PhysX on PS4 because it is not need it..lol

Hardware Physx is only supported on Nvidia GPU's dude, it says so on NVIDIA own site

http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/physx/supported-gpus

You can only get Hardware physx on Nvidia GPU's, it's software on everything else which to my Knowledge, which isn't much, that requires more resources

He was waiting on the powa of the cloud to save the X1.

1. Yes the video is true, but you're making the wrong assumptions. The 'physX' you see there is particulary made for nvidia gpu's with cuda cores on the pc. If you disable it it's not like the game hasn't got any physics at all anymore, it's just the extra stuff you getting with nvidia physX for the pc like extra particles, etra physics on clothing, glass that breaks etc..

That software isn't written particulary for the cpu either. I'm not saying the cpu wouldn't do it slower but not as much slower as in that video. The cpu is emulating the code, that's not the same as something that's deliberately written for the cpu. Besides even with hardware accelerated nvidia physX on the pc, the gpu and cpu are still working together to make it happen. Not everything is calculated by the gpu only. It's actually like that for all hardware accerated physics, because gpu's have too much latency to do everything alone.

2. The physics you see in the last video you posted are not the same as nvidia physX on the pc, this one is made with the havok engine. I never said that the gpu wasn't faster at certain calculations but the cpu does still work as well.

3. PhysX may be a name for the physics sdk of nvidia, which consists out of several physics engines, the video you posted before is about nvidia physX on the pc, that's just one engine and certainly doesn't span over all computer physics in general.

4. See 3

5. Physics will never run of the gpu only, it has too much latency.

6. The 7 th core is 80 percent usable when voice commands are disabled, 50 percent when not, that can even be done on the fly, making up for a 5 percent fps drop when you do a voice command or they can just disable voice commands for that game. That core is overclocked as well. making up for 88 percent of cpu performance when you compare with 1 core of the ps4. With that 7th core enabled and the base overclock on all cores, the x1 has a total of 25 percent more cpu power available .

7. Nvidia physX on the pc runs only on nvidia cards, end of story

You don't get it you don't need PhysX to run physics on the GPU on PS4,PhysX is just a library of physics than run on Nvidia hardware,and now with Nvidia using directcompute instead of cuda it can even run on AMD GPU all it would take is a simple port.

But again to run physics on the GPU you don't need PhysX and the argument about PhyX is a stupid one,because regardless of not running on AMD GPU the test i posted is of PhysX CPU vs GPU running on a 660ti which is Nvidia hardware the point was to illustrate how Physics on GPU would run faster than on CPU up to 6 times faster from the test i posted i advice you to read the complete argument instead of one post in which you think you are proving me wrong.

1-No i am not independent of been Nvidia or AMD the end results it what matter since the point was Physics run faster on GPU which they are,you like a blind fool think that because it was physX and sony hardware is AMD that doesn't apply which is not true.

That R265 like GPU inside the PS4 will destroy that Jaguar running physics after all the test Nvidia did wasn't vs a 1.6 Jaguar dude.

That is where you are wrong,because you totally lack the skill to argue this,PhysX ran on Cell and xenon before it even ran on Cuda,PhysX was a separate card to accelerate physics it wasn't a GPU,and Cell was basically like the Ageia chip and was a CPU optimize library.

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. March 21, 2006 – AGEIA Technologies, Inc., the pioneer in hardware-accelerated physics for games, today announced that the latest version of AGEIA PhysX SDK version 2.4 will become available to registered PLAYSTATION 3 game content developers on March 31, 2006.

The AGEIA PhysX SDK is highly recognized for its extensive physics functionality and multithreading capabilities, which are uniquely suited for the multicore architecture of the Cell processor adopted on PLAYSTATION 3. The latest AGEIA PhysX SDK version 2.4 is optimized for the Cell processor, adding mind-blowing physics action to the high-definition graphics of PLAYSTATION 3 titles.

In the 2.4 release, several components of the AGEIA PhysX pipeline have been offloaded from the PPU of the PLAYSTATION 3 to the SPUs; developers can fully control the component deployment. This has resulted in a 50% reduction in maximum PPU load, leaving more room for game code and smooth frame rates.

You are like 10 years late before PhysX ran on Cuda it was already running on CPU it was even customize to run on Cell SPE,so you can see how customize it can be.

2-Physics are Physic and you should know that,you don't need PhysX period to run physics on the GPU.

3-The video i posted of Nvidia show PhysX running on CPU vs GPU and the GPU spank it,oh and that wasn't a crappy Jaguar.

4-See 3.

5-Latency mean shit,and is not GPU that have latency idiot is memory which has latency,and we already establish that latency in GDDR5 isn't particularly higher than DDR3,Physics will run fine on the GPU and the video i posted owned your ass over...

6-Is not 80% usable because system calls will eat 50% on the spot,which mean if you use 80% of the CPU and you make a system call the performance of what your are running will drop or even freeze.

You don't get it you can give up system call IN GAME that mean voice command for game specific things,the system call are not given and still will consume 50%,oh and there is no way to know how much is free.

Oh and god forbid if sony does the same,since sony has a 2 core reservation but they have no snap or Kinect so if they want to get a core from the OS it will be a complete one,just like they did ram on PS3 when they lower the usage from 125mb to about 40mb.

7-No Nvidia PhysX on PC runs on CPU as well moron,in fact how the fu** you think they did a comparison CPU vs GPU.?

You know shit about this..

1. The physX that ran on cell and xenon are nothing like the physX effects you see on the pc. Besides, cell and xenon are vector cpu's which are more suited to do gpu tasks than general purpose cpu's.

2. The havok engine is not the same as nvidia physX on the pc.

3. Nividia PhysX was not written to run on a general purpose cpu, the whole point of nvidia physX on the pc was to use hardware acceleration through gpu's and/or ppu's. It has been adapted to run better on cpu's in 2011.

From wiki "On July 5, 2010, Real World Technologies published an analysis^[19] of the PhysX architecture. According to this analysis, most of the code used in PhysX applications at the time was based on x87 instructions without any multi-threading optimization. This could cause significant performance drops when running PhysX code on the CPU. The article suggested that a PhysX rewrite using SSE instructions may substantially lessen the performance discrepancy between CPU PhysX and GPU PhysX.PhysX SDK 3.0 was released in May 2011 and represented a significant rewrite of the SDK, bringing improvements such as more efficient multithreading and a unified code base for all supported platforms"

source

That doesn't change the fact that the physics in nvidia physX (which involves an insane amount of particles) still run better when the gpu helps out but physics like gravity just run fine on the cpu, halflife 2 havok engine only used cpu and that ran on an old pentium III.

4. you changed the subject here, the point was here that you said that nvidia physX is the same as computer physics in general, which is hilarious

5. from wiki "The drive toward GPGPU is making GPUs more and more suitable for the job of a PPU; DX10 adds integer data types, unified shader architecture, and a geometry shader stage which allows a broader range of algorithms to be implemented; NVidia CUDA provides a little more in the way of inter-thread communication and scratchpad-style workspace associated with the threads. Nonetheless GPUs are built around a larger number of longer latency, slower threads, and designed around texture & framebuffer data paths; this distinguishes them from PPU's & the Cell as being less well optimized for taking over game world simulation tasks"

source

6. If that's the case (that it would freeze) they can just disable kinect. This is microsoft you know, the leading developper when it comes to operating systems. IF they can upgrade the whole system to windows 10, I can't see why they couldn't do something simple like disabling voice commands for a game.

I can't see sony doing something similar (freeing up an extra core), the os is running on a linux based os and they're nowhere near microsoft when it comes to operating systems. Still, it might be possible, but there's not even a rumour that this would happen lol.

7. It was written to run on gpu's and adapted so the cpu could emulate it.

@commander:

1. Intel SSE are also vector extensions. Intel AVXv2 (256bit SIMD) also has GPU like gather instructions.

From http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/independent-test-xeon-phi-shocks-tesla-gpu/

Intel’s Xeon Phi SE10P (red) beat Nvidia’s Tesla C2050 and K20 GPUs (light and dark green, respectively) in 18 out of 22 tests. The Xeon Phi also beat dual Xeon X5680s (each with six cores for 12 cores total, light blue) and dual Xeon E5-2670s (each with eight cores for 16 total, dark blue) in 15 out of 22 tests. Source: Ohio State.

They didn't test AMD's HPC solution.

2. Running "Physx-Apex" effects on AMD Radeon R9-280X(renamed 7970 GE/8970 OEM) + AMD FX 6300, with DX11+compute shader

This is my benchmark + fps video of "PhysxApex- effects" running on my PC. These are not supported by Nvidia, but they offer the same particle effects with similar (or even better) performance.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (AMD Gaming Evolved title with DirectX12) includes plenty of particle physics.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided doesn't run on DirectX11.

AMD Gaming Evolved titles usually avoids NVIDIA PhysX library.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/04/08/deus-ex-mankind-divided-officially-revealed-with-cinematic-trailer/

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided will also mark a new era in Eidos-Montréal’s technology, utilizing the advanced visual and immersive capabilities of the Dawn Engine™, specifically built for the recent generation of consoles and PC. Under the umbrella of the Gaming Evolved program, AMD and Eidos-Montréal have been collaborating on Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and the game will feature Microsoft’s DirectX® 12 support as well as AMD’s TressFX™

DirectX12 enables XBO and PC to have unified programming model. PS4's API is closer to DirectX12 or Mantle and should benefit from it i.e. common CPU and GCN optimisations for PC (with GCN), XBO and PS4.

5. That wiki article with DirectX10 is obsolete with DirectX12 (concurrent multithreading capable with low latency).

Fable Legends (UE4, NVIDIA) and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DE, AMD) known to support DirectX12.

1-No the Xenon wasn't suited better for Physics,Cell was because of its hybrid stated,Cell could ran GPU task and was great with parallelism and crunching numbers like GPU are.

2-Havok is physics period,physics is how things behave inside the game,for example getting in contact with water and not getting wet,that is a total lack of physics many games have carry over the years,and which make games like Uncharted 3 on PS3 so great,the physics simulation was quite outstanding,from fire to water and even elements like sand.

Killzone 2 did some incredible Physics to and didn't use PhysX,PhysX is just another physics engine like Havok you don't need it period on any platform and making your own simulation is not a problem.

3-Oh STFU is call Nvidia PhysX because they bough it,but it ran on CPU before it did on Cuda,and if done to run on AMD it would ran no problems period,the only reason it doesn't run is competition between both Nvidia and AMD.

That bold line is a lie read what i quote from Ageia it self.

The AGEIA PhysX SDK is highly recognized for its extensive physics functionality and multithreading capabilities, which are uniquely suited for the multicore architecture of the Cell processor adopted on PLAYSTATION 3.

It did support multithreaded code this is from Ageia not wiki..lol

4-The are the same you don't need physX,again Batman has cloth simulation on its cape,which will not be on AMD GPU,but the Order use cloth simulation to and doesn't use PhysX..lol

5-Stop quoting wiki which you can even edit.

6-They can't disable system call idiot,what they can disable is game base calls,in other words voice commands in game,but the system call like xbox off and xbox record can't be turn off,and will eat 50% of the core as soon as you say xbox record this.

7-No PhysX ran on a PPU card not on a GPU and was custom to run on CPU as well,before it even ran on cuda so you have nothing.

@tormentos:

3. http://techreport.com/news/19216/physx-hobbled-on-the-cpu-by-x87-code

NVIDIA PhysX PC version was gimped with single thread X87 and it was later changed. The PPE and CELL version are not gimped like the PC version. There's very little need for NVIDIA PhysX.

For once we agree on something..hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

1. That's besides the point , you were mentioning cell and xenon, not me. The point is that nivida physX on the pc is not the same engine.

2. It's the same with havok, Havok is physics but it's not the same as nvidia physX on the pc, the rest is again. besides the point.

3. Nvidia hardware accelerated physX on the pc focusses on particles, clothing and smoke, that has nothing to do with with physics engines that were running on the ps3. They may be property of nvidia, but these is not the cuda accelerated nivida physx engine that runs on the pc.

So wiki is lying now, lmao. That quote you mention of ageia doesn't have a source and it's about the cell cpu. The cell cpu doesn't have the latency a gpu does.

4. They are not the same, one is a concept, the other is a product name.

5. Wiki is lying again? try to edit it yourself, let's see how long your nonsense is going to be on there.

6. Why couldn't they disable it , if they can change the operating system, they can do everything. Besides who cares about a framerate drop when you turn the xbox off lmao

7. A ppu has the advantage that it has lower latency than gpu's but since gpu and cpu can work together and the gpucould do a lot of physics work they stopped producing ppu's. The cpu can do the lower latency tasks.

@ProtossX: LMAO

also bicycles show their weakness when i go to the schwinn site and brag about my yamaha tdm 850.

seriously pc guys. get over yourselves.

you are on a forum about $350 toys that you hook up to a tv.

why are you coming after "pc guys"?

@lostrib: because i read tc's topic.

"But hey who uses consoles for triple a games anyway, gta V is coming for the pc 14 of april,"

Thread is more about X1 vs PS4. PC line is just barely thrown in there.

Anyways, what would be the problem talking about the PC on System Wars?

I was actually being a bit sarcastic in that comment

@commander: I assumed it was either a shot at PC gamers having to wait or pre emptive shot at those that may "hide behind PC"

it's not a problem.

pc is allowed because it's not fair to exclude pc people from the stupidity.

it's just boring and getting "points" by including something that far outclasses consoles is pointless.

being a pc fanboy in sw is like being the toughest 25 year old guy in kindergarten.

yeah sure you are a badass but if you are not embarrassed by the low level of competition there is obviously something wrong with you.

@Riverwolf007: but it's often the console fans who bring the PC into the competition

and if there was a console guy ridiculing pc as the topic then i would be making fun of them right now instead of the pc guys.

@commander:

Intel's Havok Physics on PS4 has GpGPU accelerated capability. DirectX12 enables PCs and XBO to have API parity with PS4.

From http://www.pcworld.com/article/2465211/intel-microsoft-promise-directx-12-could-halve-pc-graphics-power-draw.html

Intel's DirectX12 test includes GpGPU workloads.

In part, that’s because DirectX 12 enables the GPU to take over more of the traditional computing load, including physics and collisions.

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Modern PCs includes HDMI ports for HDTVs and has one of the industry's best Blu-ray playback software and image processing.

PS4 is about $399 USD box.