The return of the cartridge, are you ready?

[QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]I have a feeling that before that, we will just have direct downloads, so itll neva happen.FunkyHeadHunter

^^^^THIS^^^^^.....Honestly...dvd, bluray are going to be a thing of the past very soon. My local walmart at one time had quite a few bluray dvds...BUT now they have nearly none...I think its only a matter of time before all moveable media is a thing of the past...everything is going to be downloadable very soon.

And people will also want long lasting solid-state hard drives to put those downloaded movies & games on. They will also want a portable media format so they can take those movies & games to their girlfriend's house instead of lugging their desktop or laptop everywhere they go. That's where these cards will come into play.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="nethernova"] Go back in time far enough and people will say the same about GB or even MB. "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gatesdkrustyklown

It would be too expensive to create a game worth TB of data. Games under 50GB of data are putting devs out of business, there's certainly not going to be a game thats 1000GB of data. No amount of FMV in any game is ever going to even amount to more than 100GB.

This sentiment has been repeated many times over the last 30 years (even further if you start digging up the military R&D efforts of the '60s & '70s).

As developer tools become more & more sophisticated, the products developed with those tools will require more and more space. This storage inflation has been a constant in computing, and I don't see it ever ending.

I don't think you understand that technology doesn't make games, people make games, and now they have to hire much more people to create games. And while devs were able to accomodate to the higher costs on the PSX and PS2, they're not going to be able to accomodate to higher costs. Games are already getting shorter because they can't accomodate to the costs this gen alone.

[QUOTE="mr_poodles123"]Holy crap... What if the future of games IS in the future of SD cards; in a different way. What if you have a 2 terabyte chip for ALL of your games? So you go to the kiosk at gamestop or next to the pony ride at your supermarket, plug the card in, and select what game you want? Head home and plug in the card into your xbox 720 or PS4 and the game starts up. Load times will be almost non-existant, and no more discs to buy. That is what the gaming of the future will be.dkrustyklown

That's what I'm getting at!

:D

Well, I'm going to pass on the torch whoever can explain this to the TC.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

Simple. Price. Memory cards have dropped substantially in price this decade, but they are no where near as cost effective as DVD or BluRays. Manufacturing discs costs pennies. Memory cards are prohibitively expensive, by comparison. Meory will continue to get cheaper, but it will be a LOOOOONG time before it could compare with discs in price, if ever.

dkrustyklown

In the early 1980's CD's cost as much as $50. They hovered at $30 for a VERY LONG TIME. They were considered more expensive than cassettes because cassettes had such a large install-base and there were so many factories mass-producing them that there was a market glut. Even so, cassettes went the way of the dodo by the mid '90s.

EDIT: The key is mass-production. With more & more SD cards being produced, the technology will steadily decline in price.

No. Not even kinda. I defy you to find any link for blank CDs costing $50 bucks apiece. Heck, since it occured for a "VERY LONG TIME", it should be easy to show a period where Blank CDs cost $30 bucks apiece to make. Never happened. My family owned a CD player by '85... and that's only 3 years after release. They Weren't paying 30 dollars for full albums... Blank CDs were dirt cheap to make, and quickly. That's why the music industry flocked to them, and mass adoption came so quickly.

Memory cards HAVE been mass produced for years. And that's helped drop the price steadily. However a memory card today is vaaaaastly more expensive to produce than a plastic BluRay Disc. I'd be willing to bet that 50gb card costs well over 1,000x times as much to make as a BluRay disc. They'll keep making them larger, and they'll keep making them cheaper. But it's a massive divide to overcome and not one we're likely to see anytime soon.

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="santoron"]

Simple. Price. Memory cards have dropped substantially in price this decade, but they are no where near as cost effective as DVD or BluRays. Manufacturing discs costs pennies. Memory cards are prohibitively expensive, by comparison. Meory will continue to get cheaper, but it will be a LOOOOONG time before it could compare with discs in price, if ever.

santoron

In the early 1980's CD's cost as much as $50. They hovered at $30 for a VERY LONG TIME. They were considered more expensive than cassettes because cassettes had such a large install-base and there were so many factories mass-producing them that there was a market glut. Even so, cassettes went the way of the dodo by the mid '90s.

EDIT: The key is mass-production. With more & more SD cards being produced, the technology will steadily decline in price.

No. Not even kinda. I defy you to find any link for blank CDs costing $50 bucks apiece. Heck, since it occured for a "VERY LONG TIME", it should be easy to show a period where Blank CDs cost $30 bucks apiece to make. Never happened. My family owned a CD player by '85... and that's only 3 years after release. They Weren't paying 30 dollars for full albums... Blank CDs were dirt cheap to make, and quickly. That's why the music industry flocked to them, and mass adoption came so quickly.

Memory cards HAVE been mass produced for years. And that's helped drop the price steadily. However a memory card today is vaaaaastly more expensive to produce than a plastic BluRay Disc. I'd be willing to bet that 50gb card costs well over 1,000x times as much to make as a BluRay disc. They'll keep making them larger, and they'll keep making them cheaper. But it's a massive divide to overcome and not one we're likely to see anytime soon.

Did I use the word "blank" anywhere? You can put your strawman away, now. The first retail CD albums retailed for about $40-$50, depending on where you made your purchase. They didn't even sell blank CD's to the general public in the 1980's anyways. The price then dropped to $20-$30 by 1984, again, depending on where you made your purchase. Audio CD's on the base exchange where I did my shopping back then went for $25 a pop, and that was at military base prices, which are always lower than your standard civillian retail. They stayed at that price for about 6 years, and then they started to drop to the levels that we see today.

Oh, and here's your link, BTW. The first blank CD's available to the general public retailed for $40 each, in 1991.

As long as I don't have to blow on it again.siLVURcross

Till this day anytime I play Double Dragon 2, my cheeks begin to cause me excruciating pain:cry:

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"]As long as I don't have to blow on it again.PSP107

that would be nice, I alays did prefer cartridges to discs.

except made the game's shipping on flashcards bigger so less easier to lose lol.casualtrashnow4

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]except made the game's shipping on flashcards bigger so less easier to lose lol.casualtrashnow4

[QUOTE="santoron"]

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

In the early 1980's CD's cost as much as $50. They hovered at $30 for a VERY LONG TIME. They were considered more expensive than cassettes because cassettes had such a large install-base and there were so many factories mass-producing them that there was a market glut. Even so, cassettes went the way of the dodo by the mid '90s.

EDIT: The key is mass-production. With more & more SD cards being produced, the technology will steadily decline in price.

dkrustyklown

No. Not even kinda. I defy you to find any link for blank CDs costing $50 bucks apiece. Heck, since it occured for a "VERY LONG TIME", it should be easy to show a period where Blank CDs cost $30 bucks apiece to make. Never happened. My family owned a CD player by '85... and that's only 3 years after release. They Weren't paying 30 dollars for full albums... Blank CDs were dirt cheap to make, and quickly. That's why the music industry flocked to them, and mass adoption came so quickly.

Memory cards HAVE been mass produced for years. And that's helped drop the price steadily. However a memory card today is vaaaaastly more expensive to produce than a plastic BluRay Disc. I'd be willing to bet that 50gb card costs well over 1,000x times as much to make as a BluRay disc. They'll keep making them larger, and they'll keep making them cheaper. But it's a massive divide to overcome and not one we're likely to see anytime soon.

Did I use the word "blank" anywhere? You can put your strawman away, now. The first retail CD albums retailed for about $40-$50, depending on where you made your purchase. They didn't even sell blank CD's to the general public in the 1980's anyways. The price then dropped to $20-$30 by 1984, again, depending on where you made your purchase. Audio CD's on the base exchange where I did my shopping back then went for $25 a pop, and that was at military base prices, which are always lower than your standard civillian retail. They stayed at that price for about 6 years, and then they started to drop to the levels that we see today.

Oh, and here's your link, BTW. The first blank CD's available to the general public retailed for $40 each, in 1991.

You're using the wrong info. I'm talking about the price to make a CD.... not charge you for an album. BluRay movies cost in the neighborhood of $30 bucks each. Blank BluRays with 50gb capacity costs around $15. That doesn't mean the BluRay actually cost 30 bucks to make, or even 15. I'm speaking about the manufacturing costs, not the retail price of an album paying royalites, retails fees, and patents fees. I'm not speaking about huge markups for high end conumer devices. None of that figures into the cost that a publisher would spend putting their game on a disc versus a card. I don't even understand why you would bring it up....

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"][QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]except made the game's shipping on flashcards bigger so less easier to lose lol.bronxxbombers

why replace something that costs $0.75 per unit with something that costs several dollars? this would simply raise game prices with little real benefit.subrosian

This is a strong misconception based upon only looking at discs, but ignoring the drives that read them. The hardware required to read an optical disc contains motors (which require copper, magnets, & bearings), as well as a laser (which require a lense, a light emission device, as well as a polarizing crystal). Compared to this, the hardware required to read a cartridge or a card is a simple metal contact.

Also, once again, engineering 101, ANY motor, no matter how well designed & manufactured, WILL FAIL. The bearings, no matter how well lubricated and housed, will experience a constant shed of atoms, making them smaller and smaller until they reach a point that the housing pieces will collide against each other and grind, thereby resulting in motor failure. This is unavoidable.

If you can invent a motor that will never fail, then you will win a Nobel prize for physics, because given our current understanding of physics, such a device is impossible.

Therein lies the benefit to the consumer. By elminating as many moving parts as possible, the durability of the consumer hardware will be maximized. Furthermore, less moving parts and components means less heat production. As many 360 owners already know, anything we can do to reduce heat production in an electronic device is a definite benefit to the consumer.

EDIT: Also, there is power consumption. Spinning a motor around actually consumes a significant amount of power. Powering up a laser also consumes a significant amount of power. Non-disc media will also provide the added benefit of consuming less power, which is good for the consumer as well as the environment.

On another environmental note, since card and cartridge readers last much longer than disc drives, then it is a natural consequence that consumers will have to replace their electronic devices less often, which leads to reduced waste and cuts down on the need for a constant stream replacement hardware. How many of you had a walkman so long that the darned thing wore out?

To summarize, here are the benefits of cartridge/card based media:

1. Reduced hardware costs because the reading device is much simpler to produce.

2. Increased durability because the minimization of moving parts dramatically reduces the wear and tear that affects ALL mechanical devices ever produced by humans.

3. Reduced heat production due to the removal of several heat producing device components. This thereby reduces the chances of device overheating, which as of late has become a major issue on many devices.

4. Reduced power consumption. This is good for the planet and my wallet.

5. Reduced waste due to increased device longevity. Once again, this is good for the planet and my wallet.

Are those benefits enough for you?

That sounds really wrong to me. :P

I wouldn't really want big cartridges, but rather DS cart-sized. Sure would be nice to have a system with no moving parts again with no load times, and no requirement for a hdd for save data.

Not even, close.

Too expensive.

DD is going to replace discs

The time of the cartridge is long gone

flash memory is becoming really cheap that would kick ass if they shipped game on like flash memory lol. screw a blu ray which can break easier or still has ability to chip. all of my cd based games are scratched the hell up, i want my games shipped on flash cards like SECUREROM lolcasualtrashnow4

Blurays don't get scratched.

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="santoron"]

No. Not even kinda. I defy you to find any link for blank CDs costing $50 bucks apiece. Heck, since it occured for a "VERY LONG TIME", it should be easy to show a period where Blank CDs cost $30 bucks apiece to make. Never happened. My family owned a CD player by '85... and that's only 3 years after release. They Weren't paying 30 dollars for full albums... Blank CDs were dirt cheap to make, and quickly. That's why the music industry flocked to them, and mass adoption came so quickly.

Memory cards HAVE been mass produced for years. And that's helped drop the price steadily. However a memory card today is vaaaaastly more expensive to produce than a plastic BluRay Disc. I'd be willing to bet that 50gb card costs well over 1,000x times as much to make as a BluRay disc. They'll keep making them larger, and they'll keep making them cheaper. But it's a massive divide to overcome and not one we're likely to see anytime soon.

santoron

Did I use the word "blank" anywhere? You can put your strawman away, now. The first retail CD albums retailed for about $40-$50, depending on where you made your purchase. They didn't even sell blank CD's to the general public in the 1980's anyways. The price then dropped to $20-$30 by 1984, again, depending on where you made your purchase. Audio CD's on the base exchange where I did my shopping back then went for $25 a pop, and that was at military base prices, which are always lower than your standard civillian retail. They stayed at that price for about 6 years, and then they started to drop to the levels that we see today.

Oh, and here's your link, BTW. The first blank CD's available to the general public retailed for $40 each, in 1991.

You're using the wrong info. I'm talking about the price to make a CD.... not charge you for an album. BluRay movies cost in the neighborhood of $30 bucks each. Blank BluRays with 50gb capacity costs around $15. That doesn't mean the BluRay actually cost 30 bucks to make, or even 15. I'm speaking about the manufacturing costs, not the retail price of an album paying royalites, retails fees, and patents fees. I'm not speaking about huge markups for high end conumer devices. None of that figures into the cost that a publisher would spend putting their game on a disc versus a card. I don't even understand why you would bring it up....

I'm using the prices that the consumer actually SEES. In all reality, it makes little difference, since the retail price is a derivative of the manufacturing price with several markups causing the difference. You're arguing semantics, anyways. You want to use manufacturing cost, and I want to use retail cost. They are correlative of each other, so your challenge is PURELY SEMANTIC and does nothing to affect my conclusions.

On top of that, your position is extremely short-sighted. At one point, optical discs cost more to produce than it costs to produce SD cards today. So if the production costs for CD's can be reduced to today's levels, then what makes a similiar price drop for SD technology impossible? When the first CD stamping facility opened in Germany, CD's cost significantly more to produce than they do today, but that was only because the manufacturing process used back then was less efficient and the raw materials, due to a smaller supply, cost more. If you think that optical discs ALWAYS cost only a few pennies to produce, then you are deluding yourself. Increased production decreased the prices, and the same thing can happen with ANY format.

Also, think about it. How much plastic & metal goes into producing an optical disc VS an SD card. An SD card is physically smaller. It weighs less. It therefore requires less raw materials. The manufacturing process itself is no more complex. It's just that since optical discs have been produced for a longer period of time, the production process is currently more streamlined. It is no less likely for SD card production to be streamlined than it was for optical disc production.

Now, I defy YOU to find information to the contrary. You demanded links and sources from me, but now I demand the same from you.

It's not going to happen. Besides, games are never going to need TB of data. Anything over bluray size will be too expensive to produce anyways.

And even if it does, it won't erase the failure of Nintendo in the past.

hakanakumono

Well, that's what they say about 50gb worth of storage on a disc back at the 80's... look where are at now.

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]flash memory is becoming really cheap that would kick ass if they shipped game on like flash memory lol. screw a blu ray which can break easier or still has ability to chip. all of my cd based games are scratched the hell up, i want my games shipped on flash cards like SECUREROM lolhakanakumono

Blurays don't get scratched.

DD is going to replace discs

The time of the cartridge is long gone

thelastguy

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]flash memory is becoming really cheap that would kick ass if they shipped game on like flash memory lol. screw a blu ray which can break easier or still has ability to chip. all of my cd based games are scratched the hell up, i want my games shipped on flash cards like SECUREROM lolhakanakumono

Blurays don't get scratched.

Blueray players DO wear out, though. Anything with moving parts wears out. Stop looking at the disc as if though it's an isolated product. A disc is worthless without a device that can read it. Also, stop ignoring the prices of the devices that read discs, as their costs are significant. Not only are the components that are necessary to read a disc expensive, but as a mechanical device, they are inherently prone to failure due to the presence of electric motors.

No motor that is free of wear has ever been invented.

The wear produced on a metal filament by the passage of an electric current is NOTHING compared to the wear that the ball bearings in an electric motor experience.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It's not going to happen. Besides, games are never going to need TB of data. Anything over bluray size will be too expensive to produce anyways.

And even if it does, it won't erase the failure of Nintendo in the past.

AlbertChai

Well, that's what they say about 50gb worth of storage on a disc back at the 80's... look where are at now.

That's because video and audio were unheard of on computers in the 80s. We have audio, video, internet, gaming, etc on computers now. We've also made the move to HD. Things like TB are great for storing lots of HD media content, but not so great for storing a single media. There are also discs in development with more space than bluray, but it's not as if we'll be putting movies on them.

The thing is, games are getting shorter, not longer due to high dev costs. So it's not like devs are going to need more space because any future improvements is going to actually result in less game, and thus less FMV and sound files to fill up a disc, even if they're slightly higher in quality (and space taken up).

In the end, this thread is based on absolutely nothing other than an idea that the TC had and nostaliga gone wild.

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

DD is going to replace discs

The time of the cartridge is long gone

casualtrashnow4

Maybe not now, but in 10 - 20 years everyone will have internet

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]flash memory is becoming really cheap that would kick ass if they shipped game on like flash memory lol. screw a blu ray which can break easier or still has ability to chip. all of my cd based games are scratched the hell up, i want my games shipped on flash cards like SECUREROM loldkrustyklown

Blurays don't get scratched.

Blueray players DO wear out, though. Anything with moving parts wears out. Stop looking at the disc as if though it's an isolated product. A disc is worthless without a device that can read it. Also, stop ignoring the prices of the devices that read discs, as their costs are significant. Not only are the components that are necessary to read a disc expensive, but as a mechanical device, they are inherently prone to failure due to the presence of electric motors.

No motor that is free of wear has ever been invented.

The wear produced on a metal filament by the passage of an electric current is NOTHING compared to the wear that the ball bearings in an electric motor experience.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]flash memory is becoming really cheap that would kick ass if they shipped game on like flash memory lol. screw a blu ray which can break easier or still has ability to chip. all of my cd based games are scratched the hell up, i want my games shipped on flash cards like SECUREROM loldkrustyklown

Blurays don't get scratched.

Blueray players DO wear out, though. Anything with moving parts wears out. Stop looking at the disc as if though it's an isolated product. A disc is worthless without a device that can read it. Also, stop ignoring the prices of the devices that read discs, as their costs are significant. Not only are the components that are necessary to read a disc expensive, but as a mechanical device, they are inherently prone to failure due to the presence of electric motors.

No motor that is free of wear has ever been invented.

The wear produced on a metal filament by the passage of an electric current is NOTHING compared to the wear that the ball bearings in an electric motor experience.

He was talking about CDs, not CD players. I was talking about blurays, not bluray players. Stay on topic.

And why are SD cards or cartridge slots going to last forever? One of the problems with the Sega Saturn is that taking out and putting in cartridges over and over again can wear it down.

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

DD is going to replace discs

The time of the cartridge is long gone

casualtrashnow4

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Blurays don't get scratched.

hakanakumono

Blueray players DO wear out, though. Anything with moving parts wears out. Stop looking at the disc as if though it's an isolated product. A disc is worthless without a device that can read it. Also, stop ignoring the prices of the devices that read discs, as their costs are significant. Not only are the components that are necessary to read a disc expensive, but as a mechanical device, they are inherently prone to failure due to the presence of electric motors.

No motor that is free of wear has ever been invented.

The wear produced on a metal filament by the passage of an electric current is NOTHING compared to the wear that the ball bearings in an electric motor experience.

And why are SD cards or cartridge slots going to last forever? One of the problems with the Sega Saturn is that taking out and putting in cartridges over and over again can wear it down.

By the time these 50TB SD cards are available, there will be discs of the same or greater size that will be much cheaper to produce.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]

Blueray players DO wear out, though. Anything with moving parts wears out. Stop looking at the disc as if though it's an isolated product. A disc is worthless without a device that can read it. Also, stop ignoring the prices of the devices that read discs, as their costs are significant. Not only are the components that are necessary to read a disc expensive, but as a mechanical device, they are inherently prone to failure due to the presence of electric motors.

No motor that is free of wear has ever been invented.

The wear produced on a metal filament by the passage of an electric current is NOTHING compared to the wear that the ball bearings in an electric motor experience.

casualtrashnow4

And why are SD cards or cartridge slots going to last forever? One of the problems with the Sega Saturn is that taking out and putting in cartridges over and over again can wear it down.

I'm not talking about the games, I'm talking about the port.

And please, if you're going to create an alternate account you post ONCE to support your claim, not 50 times in a row saying the same thing over and over again.

By the time these 50TB SD cards are available, there will be discs of the same or greater size that will be much cheaper to produce.

hakanakumono

i always broke stupid ass cd based games cartridges all the way! games shipping on flash memory=future lolcasualtrashnow4

Is your name edward scissor hands?

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

And why are SD cards or cartridge slots going to last forever? One of the problems with the Sega Saturn is that taking out and putting in cartridges over and over again can wear it down.

hakanakumono

I'm not talking about the games, I'm talking about the port.

And please, if you're going to create an alternate account you post ONCE to support your claim, not 50 times in a row saying the same thing over and over again.

i always thought cartridges all the way! games shipping on flash memory=future lolcasualtrashnow4

[QUOTE="casualtrashnow4"]i always broke stupid ass cd based games cartridges all the way! games shipping on flash memory=future lolhakanakumono

Is your name edward scissor hands?