TOUGH REALITY check about pre owned games business...

[QUOTE="mkaliaz"]

Most gamers "budgets" are pretty much set. The only question is where those dollars get spent. Yes, the gamers might lose more in the end because they can buy less titles with their funds, but the reality of restricting used sales will be more money will go to people who actually make them instead of people who operate retail establishments.

Pug-Nasty

Yep, which means they will be rewarded for pumping out sub par, short games. I'm not saying this applies to all games, as it certainly doesn't. But this is how capitalism works, consumers show companies what their product is worth, and the price is adjusted accordingly. If a publisher sees their game being resold and their new units aren't moving, it's on them to adjust their price to attract buyers and compete with their own used product and, at the same time, learn a lesson for the next game.

If they don't do that, it is only their fault for bad sales. Pretty much the publisher of any game that you see sitting full price for a long time after launch has no business whining about sales, because they haven't even tried to make the system work for them.

I agree with pretty much your entire argument, but wouldnt you also agree that if the used sales was not an option that these games would not sell regardless? A lot of people will wait for reviews first. Also, I agree that pricing will drop NOW if the game stinks and its being resold at cheap prices, but I also believe that the games would be discounted equally as fast if the game just simply isn't selling on its own. Maybe this is less of an issue for me since I rarely pre-order games and usually wait to see at least a few reputable reviews before putting money down on a new game. I agree though, there isn't excuses for putting out poor products, but i dont think the used game market (or a lack of one) would change this from hurting the developer/publisher. Putting out gatbage titles will hurt them regardless of the used sale markets.

And game companies charge $15 for DLC that costs them near to $0 to make. Of course when a company steals from the consumer it is just how the system works and not theft.kuraimen

You dont have to buy that overpriced DLC. In fact, i would discourage anyone from paying that much. I would even encourage people to not buy the original games if the developers are holding back content or (even worse) charging for content already on the disc.

[QUOTE="svetzenlether"]

I love how the TC is completely ignoring any post that states there being a tolerated used market for every type of consumable product out there.

True_Gamer_

I'm not talking about digital, Einstein, I'm talking about legally buying a used game from a store.

[QUOTE="svetzenlether"]

I love how the TC is completely ignoring any post that states there being a tolerated used market for every type of consumable product out there.

True_Gamer_

Piracy isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. It's still illegal.

If I could make an infinite number of Ferraris for free in my garage and give them away to anyone who wanted to, I'd be breaking the law, because I'm not allowed to sell Ferraris.

Yes, piracy is "better" to the developers because at least there's still a slim chance the pirate will buy the game at some point, maybe he wants to show support to the developer because it's a great game, whereas a guy who's bought a pre-owned game has zero intentions of giving money to the developers.

Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. sSubZerOo

so dev's/publishers should get paid multiple times for the same copy of a game?

Yes because your not paying for the copy of the game.. Your paying for permission by the software developer to use their license.

should ford get paid multiple times for the same fiesta?

That is completely different, that is 100% a physical product you use.. While that $60 is 99.9% for the license it self and not the physical property.

It's simple once that copy is sold it's nothing to do with anyone except the purchaser,

Wrong again.. Software is a intellectual property.. This will be enforced by next gen easy.. Its has been enforced on the pc for a decade..

if i choose to sell it on thats up to me,

No it isn't you can not sell your permission to play the game over others.. The only reason why this hasn't be enforced yet is because consoles havn't advanced as fast as the pc in this regard..

it's not a lost sale to the dev/pub

Yes it is.. If anything its far more tangible then piracy. Because peopel are actually paying some money for it..

they've already been paid for the games in the shop and if someone isn't willing to pay full price then they'll either wait till it's cheaper and buy it discounted when the retailer's trying to shift dead stock or buy it pre-owned either way the dev/pub got paid, this all boils down to pure greed.

Companies should have the right to defend their intellectual property.. And by next gen it will be fully enforced.. No used games, no rental services will exist.

sonny2dap

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. Bigboi500

Explain that to me seeing as both services they see a extremely small amount of money from.. They don't gain money from this what so ever.. Infact they lose money.. Because people are willing to pay for it.. So instead of shelling out the full price, or even a reduced price later on (due to sales or lowering in price over time) they see absolutely NO money what so ever.. This is as bad as piracy on the PC, if not worse.. Because they can be measured.. And people are able to willingly pay a certain amount of money..

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. sSubZerOo

Explain that to me seeing as both services they see a extremely small amount of money from.. They don't gain money from this what so ever.. Infact they lose money.. Because people are willing to pay for it.. So instead of shelling out the full price, or even a reduced price later on (due to sales or lowering in price over time) they see absolutely NO money what so ever.. This is as bad as piracy on the PC, if not worse.. Because they can be measured.. And people are able to willingly pay a certain amount of money..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]If both used and rental game services are put out of business, game sales will plummet, and devs will lose even more money.

Bigboi500

Explain that to me seeing as both services they see a extremely small amount of money from.. They don't gain money from this what so ever.. Infact they lose money.. Because people are willing to pay for it.. So instead of shelling out the full price, or even a reduced price later on (due to sales or lowering in price over time) they see absolutely NO money what so ever.. This is as bad as piracy on the PC, if not worse.. Because they can be measured.. And people are able to willingly pay a certain amount of money..

.. What difference does that make to the publisher? They still get no money just like when they rent or buy a used game.. Furthermore piracy can be curved and ban the person.. And lastly nothing is stopping the person to wait intil the price comes down or goes on sale..

Pre owned games business is detrimental to the industry let me explain why:

1. Person X buys game A....

2. X sells it to GAME store.

3. GAME sells it to person Y.

3 Y sells it BACK to GAME.

4. Game sells it to Z.

Now we have X Y and Z ALL playing game A. How much publisher B got from this deal? THE PRICE OF ONE FREAKING GAME £50....How much did GAME store make? At least £70....

Now TAKE PRE OWNED SALES OUT OF THE PICTURE:

X paid £50 plus £50 from Y plus another £50 from Z.

How much did publisher B make? £150.

DISCLAIMER

The above practice is LEGAL. OPERATES in BROAD daylight in high street shops. Thus its TOLERATED, NOT persecuted and NOT stigmatized.

As opposed to piracy...

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Explain that to me seeing as both services they see a extremely small amount of money from.. They don't gain money from this what so ever.. Infact they lose money.. Because people are willing to pay for it.. So instead of shelling out the full price, or even a reduced price later on (due to sales or lowering in price over time) they see absolutely NO money what so ever.. This is as bad as piracy on the PC, if not worse.. Because they can be measured.. And people are able to willingly pay a certain amount of money..

sSubZerOo

.. What difference does that make to the publisher? They still get no money just like when they rent or buy a used game.. Furthermore piracy can be curved and ban the person.. And lastly nothing is stopping the person to wait intil the price comes down or goes on sale..

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Pre owned games business is detrimental to the industry let me explain why:

1. Person X buys game A....

2. X sells it to GAME store.

3. GAME sells it to person Y.

3 Y sells it BACK to GAME.

4. Game sells it to Z.

Now we have X Y and Z ALL playing game A. How much publisher B got from this deal? THE PRICE OF ONE FREAKING GAME £50....How much did GAME store make? At least £70....

Now TAKE PRE OWNED SALES OUT OF THE PICTURE:

X paid £50 plus £50 from Y plus another £50 from Z.

How much did publisher B make? £150.

DISCLAIMER

The above practice is LEGAL. OPERATES in BROAD daylight in high street shops. Thus its TOLERATED, NOT persecuted and NOT stigmatized.

As opposed to piracy...

tomarlyn

The market overall probably.. But the actual publishers? No.. Furthermore used games especially for games within the last 6 months are barely ever cheaper then their new game.. Like $10 to $15 cheaper often times.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]It's quite simple really, there are a lot of single-player only gamers out there, and they will NEVER spend $60 to play the SP campaigns in games like Halo, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, and their likes. If their only legit option is to buy those games at such high rates, they will pirate them instead.

Bigboi500

.. What difference does that make to the publisher? They still get no money just like when they rent or buy a used game.. Furthermore piracy can be curved and ban the person.. And lastly nothing is stopping the person to wait intil the price comes down or goes on sale..

I have no clue what your talking about there..

and someone said the other day that rental service providers have to pay a lot of money to devs in the way of royalty fees, so how is that bad for the devs? They're still getting paid for those games.

No where near a brand new game.. Yet again.. Expect this to be enforced by next gen.. It has been enforced actively on the pc platform for the past 5 years easily.. Expect the same thing to happen for consoles soon.

The EULA is a joke. It's been appealed at court more times than Lindsay Lohan has been to rehab.

The video game industry is just becoming a joke in itself. It wants to be a legitimate art form, it wants every single penny to go to the publishers, it wants to charge for every minute someone plays a game..... lmfao.

Can't believe some gamers actually support this.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Pre owned games business is detrimental to the industry let me explain why:

1. Person X buys game A....

2. X sells it to GAME store.

3. GAME sells it to person Y.

3 Y sells it BACK to GAME.

4. Game sells it to Z.

Now we have X Y and Z ALL playing game A. How much publisher B got from this deal? THE PRICE OF ONE FREAKING GAME £50....How much did GAME store make? At least £70....

Now TAKE PRE OWNED SALES OUT OF THE PICTURE:

X paid £50 plus £50 from Y plus another £50 from Z.

How much did publisher B make? £150.

DISCLAIMER

The above practice is LEGAL. OPERATES in BROAD daylight in high street shops. Thus its TOLERATED, NOT persecuted and NOT stigmatized.

As opposed to piracy...

sSubZerOo

The market overall probably.. But the actual publishers? No.. Furthermore used games especially for games within the last 6 months are barely ever cheaper then their new game.. Like $10 to $15 cheaper often times.

Garage sales = bad

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

.. What difference does that make to the publisher? They still get no money just like when they rent or buy a used game.. Furthermore piracy can be curved and ban the person.. And lastly nothing is stopping the person to wait intil the price comes down or goes on sale..

sSubZerOo

I have no clue what your talking about there..

and someone said the other day that rental service providers have to pay a lot of money to devs in the way of royalty fees, so how is that bad for the devs? They're still getting paid for those games.

No where near a brand new game.. Yet again.. Expect this to be enforced by next gen.. It has been enforced actively on the pc platform for the past 5 years easily.. Expect the same thing to happen for consoles soon.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"] You forget that if a person likes that used game, they're more likely to buy the sequel new. I wouldn't be buying The Last Gaurdian if I hadn't got SoTC used. If I HAD to buy SoTC new I wouldn't have taken the risk, because I honestly wasn't sure I'd like it after reading what it was all about. The market will probably shrink without the great value of used games.Bigboi500

The market overall probably.. But the actual publishers? No.. Furthermore used games especially for games within the last 6 months are barely ever cheaper then their new game.. Like $10 to $15 cheaper often times.

And then they wait for the game to come down on price or go on sale.. There is no legitimate reason for the publisher to defend this kind of practice on either end.. Especially when demos have become so widespread.. And the fact this has been in practice on the pc for years now.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Some used game services provide the option for the gamer to buy the game,

I have no clue what your talking about there..

and someone said the other day that rental service providers have to pay a lot of money to devs in the way of royalty fees, so how is that bad for the devs? They're still getting paid for those games.

No where near a brand new game.. Yet again.. Expect this to be enforced by next gen.. It has been enforced actively on the pc platform for the past 5 years easily.. Expect the same thing to happen for consoles soon.

Bigboi500

That doesn't matter htough.. Piracy is a unmeasurable FIGURE.. While used games we can measure the amount of money PEOPLE are willing to pay.. All they have to do is wait for a lower price.. Piracy isn't measurable.

bla..waste of time and money I just rent.

Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. sSubZerOo

What interest do you have in trying to destroy the right to resell that all consumers deservedly possess?

Do you like it when corporations step all over you and control how you use the goods you purchased in the name of their own profits?

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

Difference: used game sales are legal.

True_Gamer_

▲ Sounds good to me. Anyway, it's legal, op, so get over it. ▲

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. sonicmj1

What interest do you have in trying to destroy the right to resell that all consumers deservedly possess?

Do you like it when corporations step all over you and control how you use the goods you purchased in the name of their own profits?

Where was I defending this? I was pointing out the facts.. That your paying for a intellectual property that can not be used up like a car or a phyiscal product.. You pay for the permission.. Console gamers are lucky that they are not trying to enforce this gen, by next gen is most likely guarentee where game licenses will be tied to your account.. In cd key and all..

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

sSubZerOo

That doesn't matter htough.. Piracy is a unmeasurable FIGURE.. While used games we can measure the amount of money PEOPLE are willing to pay.. All they have to do is wait for a lower price.. Piracy isn't measurable.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Pre owned games business is detrimental to the industry let me explain why:

1. Person X buys game A....

2. X sells it to GAME store.

3. GAME sells it to person Y.

3 Y sells it BACK to GAME.

4. Game sells it to Z.

Now we have X Y and Z ALL playing game A. How much publisher B got from this deal? THE PRICE OF ONE FREAKING GAME £50....How much did GAME store make? At least £70....

Now TAKE PRE OWNED SALES OUT OF THE PICTURE:

X paid £50 plus £50 from Y plus another £50 from Z.

How much did publisher B make? £150.

DISCLAIMER

The above practice is LEGAL. OPERATES in BROAD daylight in high street shops. Thus its TOLERATED, NOT persecuted and NOT stigmatized.

As opposed to piracy...

The market overall probably.. But the actual publishers? No.. Furthermore used games especially for games within the last 6 months are barely ever cheaper then their new game.. Like $10 to $15 cheaper often times.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

The market overall probably.. But the actual publishers? No.. Furthermore used games especially for games within the last 6 months are barely ever cheaper then their new game.. Like $10 to $15 cheaper often times.

sSubZerOo

And then they wait for the game to come down on price or go on sale.. There is no legitimate reason for the publisher to defend this kind of practice on either end.. Especially when demos have become so widespread.. And the fact this has been in practice on the pc for years now.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm talking about GameFly and companies like that. And to respond to your other bolded part, that's why pirating is so high on PC gaming.

Bigboi500

That doesn't matter htough.. Piracy is a unmeasurable FIGURE.. While used games we can measure the amount of money PEOPLE are willing to pay.. All they have to do is wait for a lower price.. Piracy isn't measurable.

... No no no.. None of these corporations can match in funds against Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.. Furthermore Blockbuster just recently declared bankrupcy.. And Gamefly is a small organization that is plagued iwth numerous problems.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Its a loop hole that is trying to be closed.. Furthermore your not suppose to sell such things, its against their EULA.. When you buy a game your buying for the rights to use it, and only you.. Its only a matter of time when consoles begin to enforce this.. I reckon this will occur next gen.. Where the rental and used game industries are put out of business. sSubZerOo

What interest do you have in trying to destroy the right to resell that all consumers deservedly possess?

Do you like it when corporations step all over you and control how you use the goods you purchased in the name of their own profits?

Where was I defending this? I was pointing out the facts.. That your paying for a intellectual property that can not be used up like a car or a phyiscal product.. You pay for the permission.. Console gamers are lucky that they are not trying to enforce this gen, by next gen is most likely guarentee where game licenses will be tied to your account.. In cd key and all..

You aren't. You're paying for a disk that only plays in a certain game device. You can play that disk on any machine you want. You can sell that right to any person you want to sell it to. That is your legal privilege, as it is for any other piece of media or any physical device.

There's no reason to accept the reasoning of game companies that want to restrict your privileges. Given that the disk can only be played on one machine at a time, there's no reason to use CD keys to enforce licenses. Games are currently distributed as they ought to be, and if game companies try to lock people out of reselling their retail goods, people will be upset, and it will be bad for those companies in the long run.

As Liquid pointed out, EULAs are not legally binding, as has been pointed out time and time again in courts of law. Why bend over to accept the whims of corporations whenver they try to steal your rights with legalese?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]The used game market is lucrative because a lot of people don't think certain games are worth what they charge for new games, and they're right. $10 to $15 cheaper makes quite a bit of difference to people not willing to spend money on something that they don't know what they're getting, and can't return.

tomarlyn

And then they wait for the game to come down on price or go on sale.. There is no legitimate reason for the publisher to defend this kind of practice on either end.. Especially when demos have become so widespread.. And the fact this has been in practice on the pc for years now.

No they don't.. Because the vast majoirty of people out there are going to choose the cheaper price, meaning the used game.. Over the brand new game 8 out of 10 times.. There is no legitimate reason why a publisher or developer wants this.. ESPECIALLY when games are getting so short in length..

... No no no.. None of these corporations can match in funds against Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.. Furthermore Blockbuster just recently declared bankrupcy.. And Gamefly is a small organization that is plagued iwth numerous problems.

sSubZerOo

Not sure if Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo care much for used game sales. They'd make money from XBL and console accessories. It's the EAs, Activisions and Bethesdas that will cry more.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

That doesn't matter htough.. Piracy is a unmeasurable FIGURE.. While used games we can measure the amount of money PEOPLE are willing to pay.. All they have to do is wait for a lower price.. Piracy isn't measurable.

sSubZerOo

... No no no.. None of these corporations can match in funds against Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.. Furthermore Blockbuster just recently declared bankrupcy.. And Gamefly is a small organization that is plagued iwth numerous problems.

Game companies need retailers to stock and display their products. If one company chooses an alternative that alienates major retailers (such as Gamestop), that retailer will choose that company's competitors instead. That's the beauty of competition.

You can look at the PSP Go and see how enthusiastic retailers were about selling a machine that kept them from making money by selling games.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

What interest do you have in trying to destroy the right to resell that all consumers deservedly possess?

Do you like it when corporations step all over you and control how you use the goods you purchased in the name of their own profits?

sonicmj1

Where was I defending this? I was pointing out the facts.. That your paying for a intellectual property that can not be used up like a car or a phyiscal product.. You pay for the permission.. Console gamers are lucky that they are not trying to enforce this gen, by next gen is most likely guarentee where game licenses will be tied to your account.. In cd key and all..

You aren't. You're paying for a disk that only plays in a certain game device. You can play that disk on any machine you want. You can sell that right to any person you want to sell it to. That is your legal privilege, as it is for any other piece of media or any physical device.

No it isn't yet again.. The only reason why it hasn't been enforced yet is because of technology blocks, this is changing dramatically..

There's no reason to accept the reasoning of game companies that want to restrict your privileges.

Well then your in for a rude awakening, because this has been common practice for pc games well over 5 years..

Given that the disk can only be played on one machine at a time, there's no reason to use CD keys to enforce licenses.

That doesn't make a difference.. Your not paying them hourly or monthly to play your game.. You paid once for permission.. When you give it to a friend, yoru shorting them an extra copy.. You didn't buy the game, yo do not the own game.. You own a license in which only your self can use.

Games are currently distributed as they ought to be, and if game companies try to lock people out of reselling their retail goods, people will be upset, and it will be bad for those companies in the long run.

No it won't because if this happens to everything your choice is not to be a gamer. So have fun with that.

As Liquid pointed out, EULAs are not legally binding, as has been pointed out time and time again in courts of law. Why bend over to accept the whims of corporations whenver they try to steal your rights with legalese?

Its just in the EULA now because it can't be enforced well enough on consoles.. This will change next gen.. It has been that way for the PC for years.. World of Warcraft in its 12 million subscribers are a huge example of this.. In which they have the right to ban your account (which is the game bought) at their descrition including having people share account, and selling your account.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"] Not everything gets a demo, even if it does you might like it but not feel its worth the full price. In that case you might wait a long time for a price drop, chances are something ele will take your interest in that time and you'll never bother (everyone loses in that case).sSubZerOo

No they don't.. Because the vast majoirty of people out there are going to choose the cheaper price, meaning the used game.. Over the brand new game 8 out of 10 times.. There is no legitimate reason why a publisher or developer wants this.. ESPECIALLY when games are getting so short in length..

If it's such a problem for publishers/developers, maybe they should make longer games that people want to keep instead of disposable products that they release for $60.

Nintendo seems to have worked out a good system. Their releases maintain high used prices months after release, and I don't see them whining about used sales preventing their chart-topping success.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Rental and used game services are not gonna go away next gen. Companies like GameFly, Blockbuster, and GameStop have lobbyists that will just find a way to keep the politicians' wheels greased. Nothing is gonna change any time soon.

sonicmj1

... No no no.. None of these corporations can match in funds against Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.. Furthermore Blockbuster just recently declared bankrupcy.. And Gamefly is a small organization that is plagued iwth numerous problems.

Game companies need retailers to stock and display their products. If one company chooses an alternative that alienates major retailers (such as Gamestop), that retailer will choose that company's competitors instead. That's the beauty of competition.

You can look at the PSP Go and see how enthusiastic retailers were about selling a machine that kept them from making money by selling games.

Thats funny because Bestbuy and numerous retail stores sell games as well. Gamestop thrives off used games and will go bankrupt when it comes.. Furthermore we are most likely going to see a direct download service come into the mix.. And this is a practice that all consoles will lead to because it leads to maximised profits.

Boo hoo, poor multimillion dollar corporation.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"] Not everything gets a demo, even if it does you might like it but not feel its worth the full price. In that case you might wait a long time for a price drop, chances are something ele will take your interest in that time and you'll never bother (everyone loses in that case).sonicmj1

No they don't.. Because the vast majoirty of people out there are going to choose the cheaper price, meaning the used game.. Over the brand new game 8 out of 10 times.. There is no legitimate reason why a publisher or developer wants this.. ESPECIALLY when games are getting so short in length..

If it's such a problem for publishers/developers, maybe they should make longer games that people want to keep instead of disposable products that they release for $60.

Nintendo seems to have worked out a good system. Their releases maintain high used prices months after release, and I don't see them whining about used sales preventing their chart-topping success.

Their success can be so much more with out used games in the mix.. that is the point to maximize profits.. This is going to happen whether you like it or not..

Its just in the EULA now because it can't be enforced well enough on consoles.. This will change next gen.. It has been that way for the PC for years.. World of Warcraft in its 12 million subscribers are a huge example of this.. In which they have the right to ban your account (which is the game bought) at their descrition including having people share account, and selling your account.

sSubZerOo

Blizzard have always been stingy with their EULA. However, no one seemed to notice when people installed Warcraft 3 and Starcraft and WoW about a million times over on each other's PCs.

MMOs are rather different altogther, anyway.

No they don't.. Because the vast majoirty of people out there are going to choose the cheaper price, meaning the used game.. Over the brand new game 8 out of 10 times.. There is no legitimate reason why a publisher or developer wants this.. ESPECIALLY when games are getting so short in length..

sSubZerOo

Then power to the people :P

But like I said if I hadn't got SoTC used I wouldn't give a damn about buying The Last Guardian new, a new copy of SoTC was nowhere to be found (price drop or not). Sony benefits this way from me. Its not in the best interest of the publisher to support used games, but it is a neccesary evil (from their perspective).

This was also a used special edition copy of SoTC for £12 (new games in the UK retail for around £40), very lucky find. If I had seen a regular copy in new condition for more money I would have been a complete idiot to buy that instead.

Their success can be so much more with out used games in the mix.. that is the point to maximize profits.. This is going to happen whether you like it or not..

sSubZerOo

Yeah, and Karl Marx said that the proleteriat revolution was inevitable.

Still waiting on Marx. When his prediction comes true, I'll get back to you on used game sales.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Its just in the EULA now because it can't be enforced well enough on consoles.. This will change next gen.. It has been that way for the PC for years.. World of Warcraft in its 12 million subscribers are a huge example of this.. In which they have the right to ban your account (which is the game bought) at their descrition including having people share account, and selling your account.

FrozenLiquid

Blizzard have always been stingy with their EULA. However, no one seemed to notice when people installed Warcraft 3 and Starcraft and WoW about a million times over on each other's PCs.

MMOs are rather different altogther, anyway.

:| faceplam.. You can not play Starcraft 2 or WoW if you don't have an account with the registered games.. Installation is meaningless because you can't do anything with inless you havea account in which the games are activated..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Their success can be so much more with out used games in the mix.. that is the point to maximize profits.. This is going to happen whether you like it or not..

FrozenLiquid

Yeah, and Karl Marx said that the proleteriat revolution was inevitable.

Still waiting on Marx. When his prediction comes true, I'll get back to you on used game sales.

:| Your comparison falls flat on its face when it has already been in use for computers both software and games in general for years now..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

No they don't.. Because the vast majoirty of people out there are going to choose the cheaper price, meaning the used game.. Over the brand new game 8 out of 10 times.. There is no legitimate reason why a publisher or developer wants this.. ESPECIALLY when games are getting so short in length..

tomarlyn

Then power to the people :P

But like I said if I hadn't got SoTC used I wouldn't give a damn about buying The Last Guardian new, a new copy of SoTC was nowhere to be found (price drop or not). Sony benefits this way from me. Its not in the best interest of the publisher to support used games, but it is a neccesary evil (from their perspective).

This was also a used special edition copy of SoTC for £12 (new games in the UK retail for around £40), very lucky find. If I had seen a regular copy in new condition for more money I would have been a complete idiot to buy that instead.

Your ancedotal evidence doesn't mean anything.. Companies will not use such flimsy logic and unlikely scenerios to why they should not attack this..

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Its just in the EULA now because it can't be enforced well enough on consoles.. This will change next gen.. It has been that way for the PC for years.. World of Warcraft in its 12 million subscribers are a huge example of this.. In which they have the right to ban your account (which is the game bought) at their descrition including having people share account, and selling your account.

sSubZerOo

Blizzard have always been stingy with their EULA. However, no one seemed to notice when people installed Warcraft 3 and Starcraft and WoW about a million times over on each other's PCs.

MMOs are rather different altogther, anyway.

:| faceplam.. You can not play Starcraft 2 or WoW if you don't have an account with the registered games.. Installation is meaningless because you can't do anything with inless you havea account in which the games are activated..

As I said MMOs are a different beast altogether. If you look at Blizzard's WoW EULA anyway, it's one physical copy, one account or something. Itw as the same with Starcraft and Warcraft 3 - one computer, one physical copy.

Don't be facepalming. As logical as the elimination of second hand games sales is, trust me, it's not going to fly in the courts. Unfortunately, most gamers will never understand this, as they most of them like to keep their heads in the clouds. If it were truly possible to do so, Activision, the most aggressively business-minded of all companies, would have done so unabashedly. They haven't. There's a reason for that.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

You aren't. You're paying for a disk that only plays in a certain game device. You can play that disk on any machine you want. You can sell that right to any person you want to sell it to. That is your legal privilege, as it is for any other piece of media or any physical device.

No it isn't yet again.. The only reason why it hasn't been enforced yet is because of technology blocks, this is changing dramatically..

There's no reason to accept the reasoning of game companies that want to restrict your privileges.

Well then your in for a rude awakening, because this has been common practice for pc games well over 5 years..

Given that the disk can only be played on one machine at a time, there's no reason to use CD keys to enforce licenses.

That doesn't make a difference.. Your not paying them hourly or monthly to play your game.. You paid once for permission.. When you give it to a friend, yoru shorting them an extra copy.. You didn't buy the game, yo do not the own game.. You own a license in which only your self can use.

Games are currently distributed as they ought to be, and if game companies try to lock people out of reselling their retail goods, people will be upset, and it will be bad for those companies in the long run.

No it won't because if this happens to everything your choice is not to be a gamer. So have fun with that.

As Liquid pointed out, EULAs are not legally binding, as has been pointed out time and time again in courts of law. Why bend over to accept the whims of corporations whenver they try to steal your rights with legalese?

Its just in the EULA now because it can't be enforced well enough on consoles.. This will change next gen.. It has been that way for the PC for years.. World of Warcraft in its 12 million subscribers are a huge example of this.. In which they have the right to ban your account (which is the game bought) at their descrition including having people share account, and selling your account.

sSubZerOo

You keep acting like this is inevitable. It isn't, because there are two sides to every sale: a corporation and a consumer.

Corporations would make more profit if all games were sold for $200. They'd make more profit if we had to pay them hourly to play singleplayer games. They'd make more profit if they didn't have to routinely invest in new technology. This didn't happen because consumers had choices, and they chose options that were cheaper and more friendly to them. It's why the EA Online Store, which sold 3 year rentals at full retail, failed, and why Steam, which sells games for life, allows you to redownload your games as often as you wish, and has frequent sales at low, low prices, succeeded. This is why games with lots of options and robust multiplayer modes tend to outsell linear, throwaway singleplayer-only adventures.

People can peddle the "license" theory as frequently as they wish, but it's not how people feel. I get angry when someone tells me I don't own something I paid money for and can hold in my hand. Yes I own it. It's mine. I can do what I want with it. I can sell it, I can give it to a friend, and it doesn't matter, because it's mine. If you take that right away from me, give me absolutely nothing in return, and expect me to still pay full price for games, you can go take a long walk off a short pier into whatever profiteering cesspool you came from.

This isn't a subscription we're discussing. They aren't providing me any service. This is an attempt to steal money from consumers without any incentive, and I won't stand for it. At least have the decency to pretend that you're offering me something, like those one-use codes that come with new games do.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

That doesn't matter htough.. Piracy is a unmeasurable FIGURE.. While used games we can measure the amount of money PEOPLE are willing to pay.. All they have to do is wait for a lower price.. Piracy isn't measurable.

sSubZerOo

... No no no.. None of these corporations can match in funds against Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.. Furthermore Blockbuster just recently declared bankrupcy.. And Gamefly is a small organization that is plagued iwth numerous problems.

If those services ever were made illegal, publishers would have to lower their prices for new games considerably. Otherwise, sales, and interest in gaming overall will drop dramatically. It's just simple common sense.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Their success can be so much more with out used games in the mix.. that is the point to maximize profits.. This is going to happen whether you like it or not..

sSubZerOo

Yeah, and Karl Marx said that the proleteriat revolution was inevitable.

Still waiting on Marx. When his prediction comes true, I'll get back to you on used game sales.

:| Your comparison falls flat on its face when it has already been in use for computers both software and games in general for years now..

No not really. The People's Republic of China and North Korea are two communist states which Marx talked about. However, they're not true communist states. PRC has a capitalist economy and everyone hates North Korea. A far cry from utopia.

The current trend to eliminate second hand game sales is like the PRC and North Korea. It's twisted ideals that will get people nowhere.

Your ":|" faces aren't making your rebuttal any better either.