Valve haven't been up to standard this gen

HL2 is a tough act to follow, but I'd say they've done exceptional job, no single game that matches HL1 or even HL2. But Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2, Episode 2 and Portal are some of the best games this gen and more is on the way for sure.

I think that when it comes to ambitious projects Valve is being held back by the source engine, it still does the job but it's not all that impressive anymore, I think they're saving the big stuff for their next engine.

Portal, TF2, L4D. Nice try but no. :p

And what standard are we talking about here? Because a propper HL is the only thing they are lacking. CS, CSS, TFC, DoD were all content lacking multiplayers in comparison.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Yeah they did.

Microsoft paid/incentivised Valve to get L4D as a "console exclusive".

That is why Portal 2 is going to be on PS3....because Portal is part of the HALF LIFE universe and Valve doesn't want to alienate Half Life, its biggest and most important franchise.

Very obvious that Microsoft Paid Valve. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but seeing the obvious is obvious.

HarlockJC

No, I don't have a specific link, but I do have lots of profound evidence and information, that when looked at, if you're a reasonable person, you have no choice but to agree. Kinda like the "if it looks looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its gotta be a duck" scenereo.

Would you care to hear my strong evidence, HarlockJC?

Valve is one of the greatest.

I agree, I'd also like to stick Bungie and relic in there.

Espada12

Haha no. Relic have been great this gen.

No, I don't have a specific link, but I do have lots of profound evidence and information, that when looked at, if you're a reasonable person, you have no choice but to agree. Kinda like the "if it looks looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its gotta be a duck" scenereo.

Would you care to hear my strong evidence, HarlockJC?

Persistantthug

That statement can't be true because of Team Fortress 2. Portal this gen also?

Portal was drop dead superb. That is all.

789shadow

The Orange Box

[QUOTE="AlphaJC"]*cough* PORTAL 2 HELLO!!! *cough*789shadow

Except that isn't quite out yet, is it?

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

No, I don't have a specific link, but I do have lots of profound evidence and information, that when looked at, if you're a reasonable person, you have no choice but to agree. Kinda like the "if it looks looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its gotta be a duck" scenereo.

Would you care to hear my strong evidence, HarlockJC?

Ninja-Hippo

Yes, Yes I shall bless you all. :P

Follow closely:

1. Contrary to many peoples thoughts, Valve is not a small developer. Among independeant developers, Valve is one of the larger ones, with over 250 employees in 2009 and growing. Valve is not small

2. Valve is also not poor or short on resources...Valve is quite wealthy. Valve has money that runneth over, out of their ears through Steam. Valve has plenty money.

3. Valve has had ported every Half Life game through a third party. In fact, every one of its console games except for L4D2 has been ported through a 3rd party. Valve has the KNOW HOW to get ports done, if it wants.

4. Valve has hired its own developers that know how to program for the PS3. Valve employs several knowlegable PS3 developers.

5. Valve is technically independent, but Valve has backing and is in bed with EA through EA's PARTNER program. EA has expressed interest in porting L4D (both), but Valve has rebuffed. We are not in 2007 anymore, EA in 2009 and 2010 has become a virtual master at programing for the PS3. EA could paradrop developers on Valves rooftop round the clock. EA's greed is legendary, they would port all of Valves games, if Valve would let them. Valve is in bed with EA, EA is huge, and Valve has access to EA's resources.

All of this basically shows that Valve's decision to not put L4D on PS3 was not based off of fanboy'ism, preference, or lack of ability or resources...clearly it was something else. Business is business, folks...money talks, BS walks...hence the reason PORTAL 2 (part of their bread and butter game franchise/universe) is going on the PS3

That something else is the strong likelyhood that Microsoft paid/incentivised Valve (extra) to get L4D on the XBOX 360 as a console exclusive.

If it barks, pants, has 4 legs, a tail and has fur..... reasonable people would say that its dog.....

They would be right.

TF2

Portal

Left 4 Dead and LFD2

and quite arguably the best that half life has to offer episode 2.

I disagree.

I actually would go as far to say that Valve has been better in this generation then all before it.

Valve games lacking polish? That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Nice one TC. Valve is the penicle of gaming. Though I would not expect console players to truly understand their greatness.millerlight89

Many of Valves games do lack polish. When I look at HL2, it lacks "epic'ness". It lacks that extra "oomph". Its almost sterile and bland in terms of production values. One could say that, that's just the way they wanted the style of the game to be for the "immersive" effect...but because they occasionally have crappy house music in some parts, that pretty much closes that case and excuse.

Also, since Valve doesn't make anything except FPS type games, I'm affraid calling Valve the Pinnacle is actually laughable...seriously. On top of that, half of their games are Mods...some of which they didn't even create themselves.

Valve is overrated to be honest.

Their games arent by any means bad, but yeah i think the best of valve has been found in previous gens.

Simply making the Orange Box means I cannot agree with you. 3 standalone high quality games (Im no puzzle gamer, but Portal was one of the most polished games i've seen this gen) and 2 high quality almost full games (Ep 1 and 2) for the price of a single game. Amazing quality, quantity and value

Agreed, to be honest the Half Life games are the best thing they've done this gen, every other game is good but pretty flawed.

Episode 2

Portal

Team fortress 2

Left 4 dead

Left 4 dead 2

5 games is quite alot (and portal 2 is coming)

HL: EP2, portal, TF2

soon portal 2

L4D might have been low on content, but was arguably the best for a coop game. later add-ons + user created content made it a complete package

L4D2 is actually really good and while it seemed to only add more content, it really added to gameplay and made it better (you cant really argue this seeing as how any sequal out there is just a glorified update) also for source engine it looked really really good

and why does everyone seem to forget steam? they have such great sales, community, auto updates, friend intergration, etc. which they are making for the mac

please look at your favorite dev and ask them how often and at what price they offer DLC and patches for their games both new and old (DLC free for pc)

oh yeah and user created content

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't play halo's MP and I thought L4D was a rip, portal and Tf2 are great, but they didn't blow me away like HL2.

HarlockJC

According to them, Portal 2 could change all of that. I too, was sort of underwhelmed by Left 4 Dead.

That's only in the past year though. Overall this gen they've been amazing.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

No, I don't have a specific link, but I do have lots of profound evidence and information, that when looked at, if you're a reasonable person, you have no choice but to agree. Kinda like the "if it looks looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its gotta be a duck" scenereo.

Would you care to hear my strong evidence, HarlockJC?

Persistantthug

Yes, Yes I shall bless you all. :P

Follow closely:

1. Contrary to many peoples thoughts, Valve is not a small developer. Among independeant developers, Valve is one of the larger ones, with over 250 employees in 2009 and growing. Valve is not small

2. Valve is also not poor or short on resources...Valve is quite wealthy. Valve has money that runneth over, out of their ears through Steam. Valve has plenty money.

3. Valve has had ported every Half Life game through a third party. In fact, every one of its console games except for L4D2 has been ported through a 3rd party. Valve has the KNOW HOW to get ports done, if it wants.

4. Valve has hired its own developers that know how to program for the PS3. Valve employs several knowlegable PS3 developers.

5. Valve is technically independent, but Valve has backing and is in bed with EA through EA's PARTNER program. EA has expressed interest in porting L4D (both), but Valve has rebuffed. We are not in 2007 anymore, EA in 2009 and 2010 has become a virtual master at programing for the PS3. EA could paradrop developers on Valves rooftop round the clock. EA's greed is legendary, they would port all of Valves games, if Valve would let them. Valve is in bed with EA, EA is huge, and Valve has access to EA's resources.

All of this basically shows that Valve's decision to not put L4D on PS3 was not based off of fanboy'ism, preference, or lack of ability or resources...clearly it was something else. Business is business, folks...money talks, BS walks...hence the reason PORTAL 2 (part of their bread and butter game franchise/universe) is going on the PS3

That something else is the strong likelyhood that Microsoft paid/incentivised Valve (extra) to get L4D on the XBOX 360 as a console exclusive.

If it barks, pants, has 4 legs, a tail and has fur..... reasonable people would say that its dog.....

They would be right.

oh the conspiracies. :roll: valve hired ps3 employees so they could put their games on the ps3, most likely valve did not port l4d because they did not want to make a crappy port like the ps3 orange box, as you said valve and ea are partners and ea has all those resources, but with all of ea's magical resources they slill only produced a less than lackluster port.

And lastly your theory hasabsolutelynothing to do with microsoft at all except that they make the 360.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]Valve games lacking polish? That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Nice one TC. Valve is the penicle of gaming. Though I would not expect console players to truly understand their greatness.Persistantthug

Many of Valves games do lack polish. When I look at HL2, it lacks "epic'ness". It lacks that extra "oomph". Its almost sterile and bland in terms of production values. One could say that, that's just the way they wanted the style of the game to be for the "immersive" effect...but because they occasionally have crappy house music in some parts, that pretty much closes that case and excuse.

Also, since Valve doesn't make anything except FPS type games, I'm affraid calling Valve the Pinnacle is actually laughable...seriously. On top of that, half of their games are Mods...some of which they didn't even create themselves.

Valve is overrated to be honest.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Can you at least share your profound evidence, then? ferret-gamer

Yes, Yes I shall bless you all. :P

Follow closely:

1. Contrary to many peoples thoughts, Valve is not a small developer. Among independeant developers, Valve is one of the larger ones, with over 250 employees in 2009 and growing. Valve is not small

2. Valve is also not poor or short on resources...Valve is quite wealthy. Valve has money that runneth over, out of their ears through Steam. Valve has plenty money.

3. Valve has had ported every Half Life game through a third party. In fact, every one of its console games except for L4D2 has been ported through a 3rd party. Valve has the KNOW HOW to get ports done, if it wants.

4. Valve has hired its own developers that know how to program for the PS3. Valve employs several knowlegable PS3 developers.

5. Valve is technically independent, but Valve has backing and is in bed with EA through EA's PARTNER program. EA has expressed interest in porting L4D (both), but Valve has rebuffed. We are not in 2007 anymore, EA in 2009 and 2010 has become a virtual master at programing for the PS3. EA could paradrop developers on Valves rooftop round the clock. EA's greed is legendary, they would port all of Valves games, if Valve would let them. Valve is in bed with EA, EA is huge, and Valve has access to EA's resources.

All of this basically shows that Valve's decision to not put L4D on PS3 was not based off of fanboy'ism, preference, or lack of ability or resources...clearly it was something else. Business is business, folks...money talks, BS walks...hence the reason PORTAL 2 (part of their bread and butter game franchise/universe) is going on the PS3

That something else is the strong likelyhood that Microsoft paid/incentivised Valve (extra) to get L4D on the XBOX 360 as a console exclusive.

If it barks, pants, has 4 legs, a tail and has fur..... reasonable people would say that its dog.....

They would be right.

oh the conspiracies. :roll: valve hired ps3 employees so they could put their games on the ps3, most likely valve did not port l4d because they did not want to make a crappy port like the ps3 orange box, as you said valve and ea are partners and ea has all those resources, but with all of ea's magical resources they slill only produced a less than lackluster port.

And lastly your theory hasabsolutelynothing to do with microsoft at all except that they make the 360.

Lackluster port back in 2007. I'm not sure why, but there seems to be alot of people that seem to not understand that 2007 =/= 2010. Like I said, ferret-gamer, EA has pretty much mastered PS3 development now.

And to your second point, All of my points in my "theory" has everything to do with Microsoft, especially as one of Microsofts core strategies this generation has been to buy exclusives.

Again, I'm not necessarily condemning Valve or Microsoft here, I'm just telling you that the supossedly undefined animal is barking, pants, has fur and 4 legs.

Really isn't that hard to be reasonable here...seriously.

Edit in...

By the way ferret-gamer, I own THE ORANGE BOX for the PS3. I bought it with my PS3 Jan 2009....it plays fine. I still play Team Fortress on it to this day. You see, EA patch fixed that game years ago. Just thought I'd inform you of that, since alot of people aren't aware. Later.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]Valve games lacking polish? That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Nice one TC. Valve is the penicle of gaming. Though I would not expect console players to truly understand their greatness.millerlight89

Many of Valves games do lack polish. When I look at HL2, it lacks "epic'ness". It lacks that extra "oomph". Its almost sterile and bland in terms of production values. One could say that, that's just the way they wanted the style of the game to be for the "immersive" effect...but because they occasionally have crappy house music in some parts, that pretty much closes that case and excuse.

Also, since Valve doesn't make anything except FPS type games, I'm affraid calling Valve the Pinnacle is actually laughable...seriously. On top of that, half of their games are Mods...some of which they didn't even create themselves.

Valve is overrated to be honest.

The Key word here is: ONE TRICK PONY.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Many of Valves games do lack polish. When I look at HL2, it lacks "epic'ness". It lacks that extra "oomph". Its almost sterile and bland in terms of production values. One could say that, that's just the way they wanted the style of the game to be for the "immersive" effect...but because they occasionally have crappy house music in some parts, that pretty much closes that case and excuse.

Also, since Valve doesn't make anything except FPS type games, I'm affraid calling Valve the Pinnacle is actually laughable...seriously. On top of that, half of their games are Mods...some of which they didn't even create themselves.

Valve is overrated to be honest.

Persistantthug

The Key word here is: ONE TRICK PONY.

uh...dude... there were plenty of games that had dedicated servers ..quake 1,2 and 3 all had dedicated servers. Half -life 1 and counter strike as well as unreal 1 and ut 99 all had dedicated servers and clans years before bungie 's halo.. And hell I thought the first halo didn't have online. Wasn't that just system link lan party play?

Midnightshade29

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] WTH does it matter if they are FPS games. They are great game no matter what. Valve is not really that great at concole gaming yet so I would understnd if you do not get it. Though on the PC they are easily one of the best. By the way polish does not equal epicness. It is how the game plays, the amount of bugs, the controls etc.... Not if a game is epic.DarkLink77

The Key word here is: ONE TRICK PONY.

You'll find that Very few developers with 14 or more years experience develop just 1 type of game, Especially not the Ones that have won AIAS GOTY Awards.

Nothing to argue, really.

Valve = ONE TRICK PONY

Portal and Team fortress were up to valve standard but the rest was a big disappointment. We need Hl3 or even confirmation they are planning on making it. As of now I consider HL3 to be cancelled because honestly at least the third installment should of been made or we should of been notified about it. Valves hush hush policy is bad business and might fit their style but it doesn't make much sense. This is my opinion, I love valve but recently they have been letting everyone down.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

huh, what?

The Orange Box - 9.5 here, 96 metacritic

Individually in that box you got

Half Life 2 - 9.2 here, 96 metacritic

Half Life 2 Ep 1 - 8.7 here, 87 metacritic

Half Life 2 Ep 2 - Not reviewed here, 90 metacritic

Team Fortress 2 - 8.5 here, 92 metacritic

Portal - 9.0 here, 90 metacritic

And then both L4D games

L4D - 8.5 here, 89 metacritic

L4D2 - 9.0 here, 89 metacritic

TOTALLY lacking in quality imo. I've played hundreds of hours of these bad games over the last few years. I just can't stop. I need help! Why can't I just play good games?!?!?!??! :cry:

Ninja-Hippo

Well, a lot of Valve's games have been multiplayer only, and they have a huge modding community behind them. A game being multiplayer only doesn't make it any less of a game. If the multiplayer is just as good as a great single player game then there's no real problem. Not to mention Valve always updates TF2 for free which is a bonus.

Portal is nearly universally liked. It was something nobody had seen before. A first person puzzle game with adventure and platformer aspects that had a dark atmosphere. It was ambitious. You're right though. It's not a Half Life game, but imo no game is a Half Life game as HL2 is my #1 game of all time :P

L4D and L4D2, however, are two of the best co-op experiences this gen. I'd put Gears of War and Halo as two other great co-op experiences, but L4D is an online multiplayer game which has given me hundreds of hours of play. About a hundred on L4D, and 120 on L4D2 and still going. Also, both these games benefit from that huge modding community behind Valve except the console versions, but that's a given :P

imo there's nothing wrong with what Valve has done this gen. They operate the largest online marketplace on the PC in addition to trying to create new games. It'd be like knocking Epic for only putting out Gears of War and UT3, yet they are the largest provider of development engines. They don't make only games, so they don't focus 100% of their resources on games.

But Valve has been nothing short of one of the best devs this gen imo. Not THE best, but they are not leaving us with poor excuses for products ever.

Few developers have been up to previous standards this generation. It seems like poor game design is endemic this generation. Vandalvideo

I don't see that happening.

They haven't been as busy as a lot of other devs out there that's for sure. I also think it hurts them by shying away from the PS3. I love the L4D series, but I agree that it is short and it would be nice if Valve released a Half Life 3 on the next gen consoles.

I don't see that happening.789shadow

[QUOTE="789shadow"]I don't see that happening.Vandalvideo

That would also just be my opinion.

That would also just be my opinion.789shadow

[QUOTE="789shadow"]That would also just be my opinion.Vandalvideo

You didn't exactly give any evidence for your original statement, either.

Eh, Episode 2 was really good and Portal was ****ing great so I can't complain.

Besides, I had fun with L4D 1 and 2, even if they were lacking in some areas.

You have to understand that Valve is a small team and Half Life 2 was their hardest and longest game to develop. While I thoroughly enjoyed playing The Orange Box, I didn't enjoy L4D so much due to its lack of content and overall shallow and short campaign. Releasing a full sequel only a year later didn't do much for me either.

You have to understand that Valve is a small team and Half Life 2 was their hardest and longest game to develop. While I thoroughly enjoyed playing The Orange Box, I didn't enjoy L4D so much due to its lack of content and overall shallow and short campaign. Releasing a full sequel only a year later didn't do much for me either.

SpinoRaptor24

I don't know about standard but Insomniac don't seem to be remotely relevant.

You might as well have called this thread "Left 4 Dead isn't anything great".

I still never got why HL 2 is great. (got it at release when my PC was still up to gaming standards)

The only 2 OMG this is great parts of the game where

1: Ravenholm

2: The final section with the mega gravity gun.

The rest was pretty meh