Valve: PC is centre of innovation

and yet the first words out of Hermits mouths on good games are....
Star craft...counter strike...etc I keep hearing of this innovative nature...and yet whats continually played or used as high quality are the same old same old...face it hermits just like consoles the truely innovative is niche and will remain that way.

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="Fusiondonut"][QUOTE="The_RedLion"] Yes, this gen started q4 2005 when the xbox 360 was released

The_RedLion

If you play specific games like starcraft 2 you would know how innovative the pc is (ex. integrating the entire game on battlenet, integrating facebook into starcraft 2). 3D vision kit by nvidia released nearly 2-3 years ago. This is now being copied by Sony for the ps3 lawl.

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

Puckhog04

The Indy scene on the PC this generation has been nothing short of awesome and it keeps getting better. They are innovating, without question.

Minecraft and Amnesia being my favorite Indy games, and two of my favorite games over all this generation.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

subrosian

You're going to argue that games like LBP, Vanquish (rocket boots), Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Disney's Epic Mickey didn't at least have a bit of innovation to them? If you think Innovation is only PC then you're delusional as it is. Innovation is on every platform, regardless of what you think. Just depends on the game. You're argument is irrelevant. I'm not a game developer so I couldn't make a game to begin with nor would I want to.

The Indy scene on the PC this generation has been nothing short of awesome and it keeps getting better. They are innovating, without question.

Minecraft and Amnesia being my favorite Indy games, and two of my favorite games over all this generation.

Kiyobear

I agree completely. Amnesia is quite possibly my favorite game this generation. Such great atmosphere. But this elitist notion that innovation is only present on the PC is frustratingly stupid. Most PC fanboys get it and for what reason I have no idea.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

subrosian

Such a piss poor argument. Yeah, games are created, all games, on a PC. However,when you develop for a console you design with that platform in mind.

I see the PC has being the place to innovate but it has nothing to do with the power of the platfrom (potential power). It has to do with the freedom an Indy developer can use to try something new.

Crysis was NOT innovative, as an example. Minecraft is.

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

Puckhog04

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

Puckhog04

You're going to argue that games like LBP, Vanquish (rocket boots), Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Disney's Epic Mickey didn't at least have a bit of innovation to them? If you think Innovation is only PC then you're delusional as it is. Innovation is on every platform, regardless of what you think. Just depends on the game. You're argument is irrelevant. I'm not a game developer so I couldn't make a game to begin with nor would I want to.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"] Innovation isn't everywhere. Go ahead, make an innovative game on your console. Don't use a PC *at all*, develop and publish the game purely on the console of your choice *without using any other hardware / software*. - I'll wait.subrosian

You're going to argue that games like LBP, Vanquish (rocket boots), Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Disney's Epic Mickey didn't at least have a bit of innovation to them? If you think Innovation is only PC then you're delusional as it is. Innovation is on every platform, regardless of what you think. Just depends on the game. You're argument is irrelevant. I'm not a game developer so I couldn't make a game to begin with nor would I want to.

If you think you're being clever with such a foolish argument as "all games are craeted using a PC thus all innovation comes from a PC" you're not. By that logic there is NO SUCH THING AS A CONSOLE GAME. We are all PC gamers because all games are PC games.

Little Big Plannet is very innovative and very cool and very much a console game.

[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Innovation is everywhere regardless of what Valve says. As for the piracy argument...anyone arguing on the side of PC piracy (as in defending it) isn't the brightest person to begin with. PC piracy is rampant. And, No, Console games jumping to PC is not happening as much as PC games jumping to consoles. RDR, Vanquish, Enslaved, Tron...etc etc. More games do jump from PC to console. That's just the way it is at this point.

DudeNtheRoom

The PC has great exclusives. Amnesia and SC2 are two of my favorite games this gen. I agree as well, people defending piracy probably pirate.

I could understand the other games Puckhog mentioned for innovation, but LBP is by far the most ludicrous example of innovation I can think of.

Please don't mention it anymore.

I could understand the other games Puckhog mentioned for innovation, but LBP is by far the most ludicrous example of innovation I can think of.

Please don't mention it anymore.

N30F3N1X

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "mention that", too.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

I could understand the other games Puckhog mentioned for innovation, but LBP is by far the most ludicrous example of innovation I can think of.

Please don't mention it anymore.

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

I could understand the other games Puckhog mentioned for innovation, but LBP is by far the most ludicrous example of innovation I can think of.

Please don't mention it anymore.

DudeNtheRoom

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

Absolutely nothing.

Consoles got their first prototype of working mod tools with LBP. The same kind of prototype PC had almost twenty years ago.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

I could understand the other games Puckhog mentioned for innovation, but LBP is by far the most ludicrous example of innovation I can think of.

Please don't mention it anymore.

DudeNtheRoom

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

It's apporach towards a community for a platforming game. It's implementation of "mod tools". Mod tools that are so easy to use, yet so versatile, even someone like me can use them to create cool stuff. I have made maps for UT and stuff but I bought the collectors edition of UT2004 when it came out and it had a very deep video tutorial that was like taking a mod'ing class. I spent countless hours just learning how to make a map, much less a true mod. I mean, it was a serious course in how to use a very deep set of development tools.

You could look back to the early NES days and talk about a game like Excitbike and it's track creator but it's nothing like what LBP does. I recall making a level and being blown away at how easy it was to do the crazy stuff I did. I was so proud of myself. Then I got online and played other peoples stuff and felt like a fool. People do amazing things with that game.

LBP is innovative, right down to opening cinema and the vibe it creates. I've never played anything like it.

The way to connect to the community, make you're own content, and play a co-op platforming game, would have been innovative on the PC, much less a console.

LBP and Minecraft are my picks for most innovative games this generation.

[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"][QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

N30F3N1X

Absolutely nothing.

Consoles got their first prototype of working mod tools with LBP. The same kind of prototype PC had almost twenty years ago.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Not even a little.

For one thing there have been games with "mod tools" since the NES. Right up to being able to make you're own maps for the horrid console Far Cry games of last generation.

I use "" for mod tools becuase it's not like getting a set of mod tools for a PC game, not even a little.

Just another PC gamer that think they know everything just because they play a PC, I guess.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Not even a little.

Kiyobear

May be. Still more than what you do, that bit I'm sure of.

That "ease of use" you speak of about LBP existed in the nineties.

I was a Starcraft modder so plz don't come telling me it didn't and was only introduced by LBP.

For one thing there have been games with "mod tools" since the NES. Right up to being able to make you're own maps for the horrid console Far Cry games of last generation.

Kiyobear

Completely irrelevant.

They have begun to be used heavily only later on.

Also, the music and developer levels of LBP deserve a shout out. It's art in motion and just a great game all around.

It's really strange. If you own a ps3 I recommend a rental or cheap purchase. I can't promise you will like it, but right when you turn the game on you will know you're playing something different.

Also, the music and developer levels of LBP deserve a shout out. It's art in motion and just a great game all around.

It's really strange. If you own a ps3 I recommend a rental or cheap purchase. I can't promise you will like it, but right when you turn the game on you will know you're playing something different.

Kiyobear

I don't doubt it. If I could afford a PS3 LBP would be the third game I get after the Uncharted games.

To call it innovation is a whole 'nother story.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

You have no clue what you are talking about. Not even a little.

N30F3N1X

May be. Still more than what you do, that bit I'm sure of.

That "ease of use" you speak of about LBP existed in the nineties.

I was a Starcraft modder so plz don't come telling me it didn't and was only introduced by LBP.

For one thing there have been games with "mod tools" since the NES. Right up to being able to make you're own maps for the horrid console Far Cry games of last generation.

Kiyobear

Completely irrelevant.

They have begun to be used heavily only later on.

It's a shame you call yourself a gamer.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

Also, the music and developer levels of LBP deserve a shout out. It's art in motion and just a great game all around.

It's really strange. If you own a ps3 I recommend a rental or cheap purchase. I can't promise you will like it, but right when you turn the game on you will know you're playing something different.

N30F3N1X

I don't doubt it. If I could afford a PS3 LBP would be the third game I get after the Uncharted games.

To call it innovation is a whole 'nother story.

'nuff said.

Also, to me they are not Mod tools. To me Mod tools are developer tools that you can use that are just that, developer tools, you can create an entirely new game.

I made maps for UT2004 but not mod's. A mod is the stuff you get like Red Orchestra, not mere maps or skins.

'nuff said.

Kiyobear

?

It's a shame you call yourself a gamer.Kiyobear

Why thank you.

Any other philosophical fallacy you can come up with?

Also, to me they are not Mod tools. To me Mod tools are developer tools that you can use that are just that, developer tools, you can create an entirely new game.

I made maps for UT2004 but not mod's. A mod is the stuff you get like Red Orchestra, not mere maps or skins.

Kiyobear

What are you referring to?

[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"][QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

Kiyobear

It's apporach towards a community for a platforming game. It's implementation of "mod tools". Mod tools that are so easy to use, yet so versatile, even someone like me can use them to create cool stuff. I have made maps for UT and stuff but I bought the collectors edition of UT2004 when it came out and it had a very deep video tutorial that was like taking a mod'ing class. I spent countless hours just learning how to make a map, much less a true mod. I mean, it was a serious course in how to use a very deep set of development tools.

You could look back to the early NES days and talk about a game like Excitbike and it's track creator but it's nothing like what LBP does. I recall making a level and being blown away at how easy it was to do the crazy stuff I did. I was so proud of myself. Then I got online and played other peoples stuff and felt like a fool. People do amazing things with that game.

LBP is innovative, right down to opening cinema and the vibe it creates. I've never played anything like it.

The way to connect to the community, make you're own content, and play a co-op platforming game, would have been innovative on the PC, much less a console.

LBP and Minecraft are my picks for most innovative games this generation.

[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"][QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

Little Big Planet is very innovative. I will continue to "use that", too.

It's apporach towards a community for a platforming game. It's implementation of "mod tools". Mod tools that are so easy to use, yet so versatile, even someone like me can use them to create cool stuff. I have made maps for UT and stuff but I bought the collectors edition of UT2004 when it came out and it had a very deep video tutorial that was like taking a mod'ing class. I spent countless hours just learning how to make a map, much less a true mod. I mean, it was a serious course in how to use a very deep set of development tools.

You could look back to the early NES days and talk about a game like Excitbike and it's track creator but it's nothing like what LBP does. I recall making a level and being blown away at how easy it was to do the crazy stuff I did. I was so proud of myself. Then I got online and played other peoples stuff and felt like a fool. People do amazing things with that game.

LBP is innovative, right down to opening cinema and the vibe it creates. I've never played anything like it.

The way to connect to the community, make you're own content, and play a co-op platforming game, would have been innovative on the PC, much less a console.

LBP and Minecraft are my picks for most innovative games this generation.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

Also, to me they are not Mod tools. To me Mod tools are developer tools that you can use that are just that, developer tools, you can create an entirely new game.

I made maps for UT2004 but not mod's. A mod is the stuff you get like Red Orchestra, not mere maps or skins.

N30F3N1X

What are you referring to?

To me a Mod is something much, much deeper then what LBP provides. Though I admit I don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes with LBP, and we will see what LBP 2 can do.

There never have been true mod's on a console and there never will be.

Anything other then a full conversion mod is mere editing to me. That doesn't change the fact that LBP is innovative as hell and one elegant game.

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"] What is so innovative about LBP? I don't have a PS3 thats why I'm asking.DudeNtheRoom

It's apporach towards a community for a platforming game. It's implementation of "mod tools". Mod tools that are so easy to use, yet so versatile, even someone like me can use them to create cool stuff. I have made maps for UT and stuff but I bought the collectors edition of UT2004 when it came out and it had a very deep video tutorial that was like taking a mod'ing class. I spent countless hours just learning how to make a map, much less a true mod. I mean, it was a serious course in how to use a very deep set of development tools.

You could look back to the early NES days and talk about a game like Excitbike and it's track creator but it's nothing like what LBP does. I recall making a level and being blown away at how easy it was to do the crazy stuff I did. I was so proud of myself. Then I got online and played other peoples stuff and felt like a fool. People do amazing things with that game.

LBP is innovative, right down to opening cinema and the vibe it creates. I've never played anything like it.

The way to connect to the community, make you're own content, and play a co-op platforming game, would have been innovative on the PC, much less a console.

LBP and Minecraft are my picks for most innovative games this generation.

It's implementation. I've already stated that "this sort of thing" has been going on for years. It's something you really need to check out and make your own decision on.

If you have a ps3 I really recommend you try it. Just don't pay the full price because I can't tell you how you will feel about it.

It's too difficult to describe the platforming experience you will get from LBP. Trust me, nobody else was looking at the genre like this, though.

*cough* especially not Nintendo *cough*.

i feel like consoles are pop music, and pc is rock music. The media flocks all over pop music and makes it seem like rock is dead, but somehow rock makes more money thanks to its die hard fans. Heck the media even makes it seem like certain huge band are irrelevant just because they dontfit what they want. Right now the media wants consoles to be big since there is more advertising dollars there,