VGleaks- Xbox roadmap 2013. BC, plays used games, not always online

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

What about the weak hardware? That part of the rumor is still alive and well. Heck, just looking at the hardware alone had me thinking about switching to PS4 before this stuff about always online and mandatory Kinect caught on.

Cali3350

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

What about the weak hardware? That part of the rumor is still alive and well. Heck, just looking at the hardware alone had me thinking about switching to PS4 before this stuff about always online and mandatory Kinect caught on.

Cali3350

Still a much weaker GPU and slower RAM with a smaller game footprint (as the OS and kinect take more memory than the PS4's OS) and fewer CPU cores (1 devoted purely to Kinect, so only 3 cores (6 modules) available to games.

Cali3350

how do we know how much RAM the OS of both systems will use?  PS4 has a camera, is always recording video, and will have its fair shair of background processes.  You are doing a lot of speculating.

Anyone remember what tflops sony said the ps2 was capable compared to the gc and o xbox? yeah both systems destroyed the ps2 in graphics...etcWilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="Cali3350"]

Still a much weaker GPU and slower RAM with a smaller game footprint (as the OS and kinect take more memory than the PS4's OS) and fewer CPU cores (1 devoted purely to Kinect, so only 3 cores (6 modules) available to games.

NFJSupreme

how do we know how much RAM the OS of both systems will use?  PS4 has a camera, is always recording video, and will have its fair shair of background processes.  You are doing a lot of speculating.

So I have to pay for a separate device to play games offline? lol huge fail. No buy.Rattlesnake_8

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]Anyone remember what tflops sony said the ps2 was capable compared to the gc and o xbox? yeah both systems destroyed the ps2 in graphics...etcCali3350

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]

[QUOTE="Cali3350"]

Still a much weaker GPU and slower RAM with a smaller game footprint (as the OS and kinect take more memory than the PS4's OS) and fewer CPU cores (1 devoted purely to Kinect, so only 3 cores (6 modules) available to games.

Cali3350

how do we know how much RAM the OS of both systems will use?  PS4 has a camera, is always recording video, and will have its fair shair of background processes.  You are doing a lot of speculating.

i know the bandwidth of the PS4 memory is 256 bit i believe what is the bandwidth for the 720.  If it is large enough it would essentially be the same speed.  Either way memory is something that can be changed almost literally at the final hour before production.  I'm pretty confident that the nextbox memory will be DDR5.  It wouldn't exactly be hard to do even this late in production.  As far as the GPU goes that is a little harder to do but judging how this new leak is debunking a lot of old rumors we need to wait and see on that.  Either way we wont know what's up till may.  

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="JamDev"]Hopefully these rumours prove accurate, at least MS will be in the race if the Durango plays used games and online isn't a requirement. The remaining negatives they need to address are the Kinect 2.0 and Live pricing issues. The 360-mini add-on sounds like a terrible idea though, going to create Wii U style confusion among consumers, I can see this being about as popular as the hd-dvd add-on. godzillavskong

What about the weak hardware? That part of the rumor is still alive and well. Heck, just looking at the hardware alone had me thinking about switching to PS4 before this stuff about always online and mandatory Kinect caught on.

There is a much larger gap between these specs and what was the case with PS3 and 360. And any advantage PS3 had was mostly wiped out by its complexity. That won't be the case this time.

(as the OS and kinect take more memory than the PS4's OS)

Cali3350

Link? Lets not forget the PS3 launched with an OS footprint of 120MB compared to the 360s 32MB. Microsoft are just better in that area

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

What about the weak hardware? That part of the rumor is still alive and well. Heck, just looking at the hardware alone had me thinking about switching to PS4 before this stuff about always online and mandatory Kinect caught on.

Wickerman777

There is a much larger gap between these specs and what was the case with PS3 and 360. And any advantage PS3 had was mostly wiped out by its complexity. That won't be the case this time.

[QUOTE="Cali3350"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]Anyone remember what tflops sony said the ps2 was capable compared to the gc and o xbox? yeah both systems destroyed the ps2 in graphics...etcWilliamRLBaker

Go to AMDs website and look at their different Radeon cards. More compute units equals more flops (Provided you've got em running at the same clock speed). Their cheaper, less powerful cards have less CUs, their expensive, more powerful ones have more. These chips are based on the same series from the same manufacturer. That makes them much easier to compare than PS3 and 360. As it stands right now, unless the rumors are wrong, PS4 is considerably more powerful than Nextbox. It has 6 more CUs.

The Xbox's hardware power is almost irrelevant, as long as it isnt a generation behind like the Wii U is publishers will just force devs to build it on the weakest console and then port it to the stronger consoles. Whats important here is that Microsoft isnt going to require internet to play games. I doubt the Xbox will be much weaker than the PS4 anyways.

So basically it looks like this

PS4 selling points

-Generational jump in hardware power

-Full third party support (Including strong indie support)

-Great first party games

-Strong online network

-Cloud gaming features

-Multimedia device

Nextbox selling points

-Multimedia device that "competes with Apple"

-Genertional jump in hardware power

-Full third party support

-Kinect

-Strong online network

Pretty similar devices, but Sonys focus is on games, Microsofts is on multimedia functionality, let the games begin, i predict another close race, Microsofts superior advertising budget will probably give them a small lead against Sony.

The Xbox's hardware power is almost irrelevant, as long as it isnt a generation behind like the Wii U is publishers will just force devs to build it on the weakest console and then port it to the stronger consoles. Whats important here is that Microsoft isnt going to require internet to play games. I doubt the Xbox will be much weaker than the PS4 anyways.

So basically it looks like this

PS4 selling points

-Generational jump in hardware power

-Full third party support (Including strong indie support)

-Great first party games

-Strong online network

-Cloud gaming features

-Multimedia device

Nextbox selling points

-Multimedia device that "competes with Apple"

-Genertional jump in hardware power

-Full third party support

-Kinect

-Strong online network

Pretty similar devices, but Sonys focus is on games, Microsofts is on multimedia functionality, let the games begin, i predict another close race, Microsofts superior advertising budget will probably give them a small lead against Sony.

crimsonman1245

Meh, I wish you guys would stop saying that. As long as people keep chanting power doesn't matter the console makers are gonna listen and keep releasing junkier and junkier hardware. You should want them to build the best machines possible. But if you go in telling them "I don't care what's in it" then you're encouraging them to rip you off. I truly despise this Nintendoization of the industry. If y'all would demand more you'd probably get it.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

There is a much larger gap between these specs and what was the case with PS3 and 360. And any advantage PS3 had was mostly wiped out by its complexity. That won't be the case this time.

Wickerman777

Yeah, if you wanna get all word-policey about it I suppose you could say that. But if you simply change the wording to PS4 is 50% more powerful than Xbox 720 then the 50% figure is correct.

[QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

The Xbox's hardware power is almost irrelevant, as long as it isnt a generation behind like the Wii U is publishers will just force devs to build it on the weakest console and then port it to the stronger consoles. Whats important here is that Microsoft isnt going to require internet to play games. I doubt the Xbox will be much weaker than the PS4 anyways.

So basically it looks like this

PS4 selling points

-Generational jump in hardware power

-Full third party support (Including strong indie support)

-Great first party games

-Strong online network

-Cloud gaming features

-Multimedia device

Nextbox selling points

-Multimedia device that "competes with Apple"

-Genertional jump in hardware power

-Full third party support

-Kinect

-Strong online network

Pretty similar devices, but Sonys focus is on games, Microsofts is on multimedia functionality, let the games begin, i predict another close race, Microsofts superior advertising budget will probably give them a small lead against Sony.

Wickerman777

Meh, I wish you guys would stop saying that. As long as people keep chanting power doesn't matter the console makers are gonna listen and keep releasing junkier and junkier hardware. You should want them to build the best machines possible. But if you go in telling them "I don't care what's in it" then you're encouraging them to rip you off. I truly despise this Nintendoization of the industry. If y'all would demand more you'd probably get it.

neither the nextbox nor the PS4 are all that powerful compared to the hardware that is available.  I don't think he is saying hardware doesn't matter I think he is saying that when comparing the two the hardware difference wont matter because the nextbox will be strong enough.  PS4 exclussives will look slightly  better but the nextbox is not exactly a generation behind.  

Personally I would love if they went with a more top of the line card like the 7950 or 670 but this is a business and they are the ones taking the financial risks so they will go with the options that make the most sense financially.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] the next xbox isn't 50% weaker like you said,is already been discussed several times at beyond3D..the rumored specs are 33% less powerful.Tessellation

Yeah, if you wanna get all word-policey about it I suppose you could say that. But if you simply change the wording to PS4 is 50% more powerful than Xbox 720 then the 50% figure is correct.

OK, before I was getting the argument that it's incorrect to say that Nextbox is 50% weaker than PS4 because if you want to get literal 50% of 1.8 tflops is 900gflops. I'll concede that if one words it that way then it is more correct to say 33%. However, if the statement is PS4 is 50% more powerful than Nextbox then that is 100% accurate!!!! And the reason is that 50% of 1.2 tflops is 600 gflops and that is exactly the difference between them.

And even if you refuse to accept the 50% figure no matter what because you can't stand the sound of it a 33% difference would be huge in and of itself for 2 consoles released in the same time window. But the difference isn't 33%, it's 50% because PS4 has half as many again CUs as Durango does.

50% of 12 is 6 and that's the number of extra CUs PS4 has.

If things are so bad that people are resorting to silly word games to defend MS's hardware then that console truly is in trouble.

The thing I don't get though is why MS didn't just add this "xbox mini" as an emulation to their XBL Gold subscription instead added another sub fee on top of it. So on top of Live, MS is also going to charge you for another peripheral that you'd probably won't even use. Incoming HD-DVD 2.0...Bazooka_4ME

you are looking at it the wrong way.  If these rumors are true this is not a peripheral.  It is a stand alone product.  You can just get this "xbox mini" and use it as your stream box as well as to play 360 games.  Think of it as a roku, boxee, or apple tv, on steroids.  One of the perks of this stand alone product is that it works hand in hand with the new xbox letting your new xbox play 360 games.  They are two seperate products that work hand in hand with each other.   People wanting a streaming device for their tv only will get the xbox mini.  People wanting a gaming device will get the durango.  People who want to play 360 games on their durango will get both.  They are going after all fronts by making these two seperate products that can work together with each other.  I could see myself buying a durango and getting the mini for my girlfriend to replace her roku.  Don't be surprised if the new xbox has tons of new channels available to really make it worth getting for those who just want an internet streaming device and aren't really interested in gaming.  

Microsoft realizes that people do more than play video games in their living rooms and they are trying to appeal to a larger demographic but not by abandoning core gaming  like the cows would have you belive but by offering different products for different people.  This could end up being very successful and don't be surprised if Sony follows.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Yeah, if you wanna get all word-policey about it I suppose you could say that. But if you simply change the wording to PS4 is 50% more powerful than Xbox 720 then the 50% figure is correct.

Wickerman777

OK, before I was getting the argument that it's incorrect to say that Nextbox is 50% weaker than PS4 because if you want to get literal 50% of 1.8 tflops is 900gflops. I'll concede that if one words it that way then it is more correct to say 33%. However, if the statement is PS4 is 50% more powerful than Nextbox then that is 100% accurate!!!! And the reason is that 50% of 1.2 tflops is 600 gflops and that is exactly the difference between them.

And even if you refuse to accept the 50% figure no matter what because you can't stand the sound of it a 33% difference would be huge in and of itself for 2 consoles released in the same time window. But the difference isn't 33%, it's 50% because PS4 has half as many again CUs as Durango does.

50% of 12 is 6 and that's the number of extra CUs PS4 has.

If things are so bad that people are resorting to silly word games to defend MS's hardware then that console truly is in trouble.

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]The thing I don't get though is why MS didn't just add this "xbox mini" as an emulation to their XBL Gold subscription instead added another sub fee on top of it. So on top of Live, MS is also going to charge you for another peripheral that you'd probably won't even use. Incoming HD-DVD 2.0...NFJSupreme

you are looking at it the wrong way.  If these rumors are true this is not a peripheral.  It is a stand alone product.  You can just get this "xbox mini" and use it as your stream box as well as to play 360 games.  Think of it as a roku, boxee, or apple tv, on steroids.  One of the perks of this stand alone product is that it works hand in hand with the new xbox letting your new xbox play 360 games.  They are two seperate products that work hand in hand with each other.   People wanting a streaming device for their tv only will get the xbox mini.  People wanting a gaming device will get the durango.  People who want to play 360 games on their durango will get both.  They are going after all fronts by making these two seperate products that can work together with each other.  I could see myself buying a durango and getting the mini for my girlfriend to replace her roku.  Don't be surprised if the new xbox has tons of new channels available to really make it worth getting for those who just want an internet streaming device and aren't really interested in gaming.  

Microsoft realizes that people do more than play video games in their living rooms and they are trying to appeal to a larger demographic but not by abandoning core gaming  like the cows would have you belive but by offering different products for different people.  This could end up being very successful and don't be surprised if Sony follows.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] no, is not correct 50%=/= 33%, you clearly can't do math.Tessellation

OK, before I was getting the argument that it's incorrect to say that Nextbox is 50% weaker than PS4 because if you want to get literal 50% of 1.8 tflops is 900gflops. I'll concede that if one words it that way then it is more correct to say 33%. However, if the statement is PS4 is 50% more powerful than Nextbox then that is 100% accurate!!!! And the reason is that 50% of 1.2 tflops is 600 gflops and that is exactly the difference between them.

And even if you refuse to accept the 50% figure no matter what because you can't stand the sound of it a 33% difference would be huge in and of itself for 2 consoles released in the same time window. But the difference isn't 33%, it's 50% because PS4 has half as many again CUs as Durango does.

50% of 12 is 6 and that's the number of extra CUs PS4 has.

If things are so bad that people are resorting to silly word games to defend MS's hardware then that console truly is in trouble.

That's several times now you've mentioned this other forum as though namedropping it magically ends the conversation. So an so said this... so what!!! It's just meatbags with keyboards like any other forum. I don't need them to tell me grade school math. 18 is 50% greater than 12! I'll use a very easy to understand example to show you:

Large pizzas usually come in 12 slices. Suppose somebody gives you 12 slices and they give another guy 18. Are you gonna say "Hey, you gave that guy a third more of a pizza than you gave me"? Of course not. You're gonna say "You gave him half of a pizza more than me." Half of a pizza is 50% of a pizza! If it was 24 to 12 it would be a 100% difference... 2 pizzas vs 1.

But if that isn't good enough for you then ya can easily find out with a calculator. Type in 12 + 50% and the answer it gives you is 18!!! If you type in 12 + 33% you only get 15.96.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="trollhunter2"]

MS saved confirmed?

StrongBlackVine

The cows will be damage controlling like crazy if this is true.

Hmm as an admitted cow I see nothing to damage control. Specs will still be weaker than PS4 and no true BC. Price will be in line with PS4.

ORLY??? So who is doing the damage control now??? :lol:

This rumour now contradicts several other rumours. I wonder which rumour is true.

This rumour now contradicts several other rumours. I wonder which rumour is true.

jhcho2

Until MS officially releases the final specs/features for its next console we cannot determine which rumours to believe.

MS haters will surely side with the rumours showing a weaker console while Xbox fanboys will surely follow the positive ones... The only positive thing from this is an even more entertaining SW :) 

But will it have any games?

PS4 should be launced like RIGHT NOW!!! before Microsoft confirms that the always online requirment is for the xbox and not the durango

Well, sounds better than any rumor so far.

I'll just wait and see.

lowkey254

Agreed. Beautiful sig, by the way!

Poor lems :(kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Poor lems :(delta3074

  at the end of the day, it is all rumors.  This is the exact reason why cows are looking so foolish these days, they are emotionally invested in the PS4 against a system that they have no idea about.   As for this rumor, it sounds right, I guess this is bad news for cows, but MS knows what they are doing.   Sorry cows, I know this news ruined your pathetic last place day.....  Wow this gen really has butthurt the cows.

Mr720fan

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]Poor lems :(kuraimen

No games? Please. Both Xbox 360 and PS3 have craploads of games to play. There's more to play on either one of them than anyone would ever have time to. That should continue into the next generation.

I am now offically confused they previous rumour stated that the console shuts down if you remain offline for more than 3 minutes.....

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]Poor lems :(kuraimen

So much virulent hate for gays can sometimes means there's a raging queen lying horribly repressed underneath. Hatred being but a veil and distraction for harboured lust, I assume it must be the same for fanboys of either the PS4 or 360 locked in their loveless union and pained by a wretched lust.

Then again they may just be bored of life.

Anyway, back on track I guess. PS4 may be a great fighter, but we don't know who it's oppnent is yet. There will be pros and cons to each as always, however I've no doubt official durango announcements will raise our eyebrows in unison.

It's ok for Sony to have weaker consoles but not MS? Did the GC and Xbox not destroy the ps2? Am I missing something here? Now if the 720 is using last gen tech then I can understand.Kaszilla

The PS2 came out a year before Xbox. There's really no avoiding someone one-upping you with their hardware when they launch a year later. There probably should have been a similar gap with PS3 and Xbox 360 but Sony screwed up by making the hardware too complicated. And a good chunk of change went to Blu-Ray. But PS4 and the next Xbox are supposed to launch at roughly the same time. Given that the specs should be equal unless one of them drops the ball. As it stands right now they aren't equal.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]Poor lems :(kuraimen

inb4 $ony defense force

HaRmLeSS_RaGe

I am now offically confused they previous rumour stated that the console shuts down if you remain offline for more than 3 minutes.....

musalala

Yeah, these rumors are all over the place. As far as always online and mandatory Kinect are concerned I don't know how that's going to go. Lots of contradictory info out there. But it seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to not do either one of them. The hardware rumors, however, have been pretty consistent... unfortunately. I've been holding out hope that the GPU will get a significant boost but it ain't looking good. Not so much because of what is coming out of MS (Which has been zip) but what is coming out of AMD. They launched the 7790 and it looks incredibly similar to Nextbox's rumored graphics chip and they've been making statements like "The PS4 APU is the most powerful one we've ever built." Well, if that's true then there probably isn't a secret one for Xbox. Yeah, there's talk out there about dual GPUs and even dual APUs have been mentioned here and there but although I've hoped there might be some truth to those I gotta admit they seem pretty farfetched.

Checks TC, checks story, goes back checks TC :shock:...

:twisted:

Serially, story seems fairly spot on to me and cows gonna have a heepin helpin of humble pie commin their way. :P

Only 2 new xboxes? Dat self restraint!

This stack of add-ons and minis will be more confusing to consumers than Wii vs Wii U.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

OK, before I was getting the argument that it's incorrect to say that Nextbox is 50% weaker than PS4 because if you want to get literal 50% of 1.8 tflops is 900gflops. I'll concede that if one words it that way then it is more correct to say 33%. However, if the statement is PS4 is 50% more powerful than Nextbox then that is 100% accurate!!!! And the reason is that 50% of 1.2 tflops is 600 gflops and that is exactly the difference between them.

And even if you refuse to accept the 50% figure no matter what because you can't stand the sound of it a 33% difference would be huge in and of itself for 2 consoles released in the same time window. But the difference isn't 33%, it's 50% because PS4 has half as many again CUs as Durango does.

50% of 12 is 6 and that's the number of extra CUs PS4 has.

If things are so bad that people are resorting to silly word games to defend MS's hardware then that console truly is in trouble.

Wickerman777

That's several times now you've mentioned this other forum as though namedropping it magically ends the conversation. So an so said this... so what!!! It's just meatbags with keyboards like any other forum. I don't need them to tell me grade school math. 18 is 50% greater than 12! I'll use a very easy to understand example to show you:

Large pizzas usually come in 12 slices. Suppose somebody gives you 12 slices and they give another guy 18. Are you gonna say "Hey, you gave that guy a third more of a pizza than you gave me"? Of course not. You're gonna say "You gave him half of a pizza more than me." Half of a pizza is 50% of a pizza! If it was 24 to 12 it would be a 100% difference... 2 pizzas vs 1.

But if that isn't good enough for you then ya can easily find out with a calculator. Type in 12 + 50% and the answer it gives you is 18!!! If you type in 12 + 33% you only get 15.96.

Found this on GAF, from Microsoft Russia

There's gotta be a "In Soviet Russia..." joke here somewhere.

*in Bill Cosby voice*  Weeell over here you got your Xbox mini, and over there you got your Kinect 2.0, and over here you got your Durango, and over there you got your Jell-O pudding...

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] people at beyond 3D debunked this long ago and like or not is 33% i would like you to go there and say the same thing,they will laugh at you..the problem is you can't do simple math and just trow the 50% out of nowhere.YoYo278

That's several times now you've mentioned this other forum as though namedropping it magically ends the conversation. So an so said this... so what!!! It's just meatbags with keyboards like any other forum. I don't need them to tell me grade school math. 18 is 50% greater than 12! I'll use a very easy to understand example to show you:

Large pizzas usually come in 12 slices. Suppose somebody gives you 12 slices and they give another guy 18. Are you gonna say "Hey, you gave that guy a third more of a pizza than you gave me"? Of course not. You're gonna say "You gave him half of a pizza more than me." Half of a pizza is 50% of a pizza! If it was 24 to 12 it would be a 100% difference... 2 pizzas vs 1.

But if that isn't good enough for you then ya can easily find out with a calculator. Type in 12 + 50% and the answer it gives you is 18!!! If you type in 12 + 33% you only get 15.96.

Yeah, I acknowledged earlier that it depends on how you phrase it. If you say PS4 is 50% more powerful that is accurate. However, if you say Xbox 720 is 33% weaker that's also correct. It's weird.