Well, that didn't take long, PC gets GDDR5 system RAM support

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="_Matt_"]

 

Oh dear, good luck getting a GTX690 and I7 into an APU... IT CANNOT YET BE DONE!!! The reason APUs can be done, is because they use less powerful and demanding specs, that generate less heat and can thus be combined together to form a symbiotic relationship between the 2, sharing resources. If you put a GTX690 and a a high end i7 on a single chip it would cause major problems! Yes, when combined into an APU, they work together really well, but that still doesn't change the fact that you jhave to sacrifice specs in the first place to put into an APU.

 

This is why having separate parts will always kick APUs butt, because you CAN have a GTX690 and i7 in this instance.

_Matt_

I think we are both missing each other's points here. Yes, they would perform better on an APU compared to a standard setup I agree, it makes the best out of those specs, with shared memory, and fast bandwidth - as I said: a symbiotic relationship. 

But you missed my point that to form an APU (as of present day), only energy efficient parts can be used, there can be no equivilent of the high end hardware used, which immediately puts the PS4 at disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I am excited for the PS4, and for consoles, it's architecture seems very very logical to me; but comparing it to pc and saying that just because the PS4 has an APU makes it superior to PCs....... Just not even worth comparing.

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] Oh dear nice way to completely miss the point.. The point is that a 8 core Jaguar and a 18CU GPU will perform way better on an APU than they will on a normal set up,which make any PS4 vs 7850 or 7870 comparison or 8 core CPU to others CPU useless..tormentos

I think we are both missing each other's points here. Yes, they would perform better on an APU compared to a standard setup I agree, it makes the best out of those specs, with shared memory, and fast bandwidth - as I said: a symbiotic relationship. 

But you missed my point that to form an APU (as of present day), only energy efficient parts can be used, there can be no equivilent of the high end hardware used, which immediately puts the PS4 at disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I am excited for the PS4, and for consoles, it's architecture seems very very logical to me; but comparing it to pc and saying that just because the PS4 has an APU makes it superior to PCs....... Just not even worth comparing.

Yes, then we are in agreement on the first part of what you said at least. I highly doubt the PS4 will deliver something more impressive than pc, unless you mean in the same way Uncharted 2 (or insert similar title here) is impressive, that it makes amazing use out of a limited system.

I apologise sir, but it seems my initial argument was intended against the other user (the obvious troll that was claiming the APU was far superior to PC), and not to you, it seems we were mostly in agreement all along, unless you deleted a post...

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"] Note that i quote 3 times already against you that you need hardware HSA for windows to be implemented,windows HSA will not make all other card work like HSA,HSA is a design not a software.tormentos

If HSA was software based all GPU from AMD would be HSA by now.. In fact windows HSA mean nothing more than MS software support for HSA compliant hardware nothing more nothing less.

AMD's HSA software is not released yet i.e. plan to be release around late Q3/Q4 2013. It's about the same time as AMD's Fusion Developer Summit 2013 and AMD's Kaveri APU release window.

AMD's fusion partners.

AMD's current OpenCL running on existing driver stack i.e. shares the same driver stack as OpenGL and DirectX

AMD's OpenCL running on the new HSA driver stack.

OpenCL runtime gets moved on top of HSA.

Sorry, HSA would have the existing OpenCL apps i.e. it just runs faster.

PS; Some parts of HSA is hardware e.g. shader interrupts. I haven't checked if HSA can abstract the missing hardware features i.e. non-accelerated path.

Why are we talking about memory type/speed like it's an important aspect? I don't think anybody's ever had a speed bottleneck for memory, it's always been about quantity.General_X

It's because of the PS4 crap, cows egard 8GB GDDR5 and went nuts without fully knowing what it meant and they were all tricked by fancy numbers and letters. 

This thread is more of a "Cows look, it really means fvck all" type thread

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

KillzoneSnake

I'm sure there are thousands of console players that would love to have incremental upgrades every now and then for their system. And it's because the hardware is stuck in the same place that devs won't make games that look better than Crysis 3 or KZ:SF. 

This is just hilarious.. Heil68

Isn't SW always hilarious? :lol:

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

So if you care enough about this GDDR5 thing, you will be able to have it on a PC.

Long story short: when DDR4 arrives, GDDR5 will be rendered irrelevant. Quote:

"Once the DDR4 memory comes along the advantages of GDDR5 start to diminish again. DDR4 will enable higher densities at comparable speeds as well as upgradeable modules which might be more desirable for customers."

Also

GDDR6 Memory Coming in 2014

IgGy621985

here we go..PC trying to capitalize on consoles hype ...its not a gaming machine..its for photoshop,music,and spreadsheets and internet..quit trying to game on them.

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

KillzoneSnake

This is the point I guess the hermits are missing. PS4 is one product plug and play out the box. You don't have to hack mod patch or build sh!t. 

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

Rage010101

They all get fooled by PR talk. They also think magic console optimisation can do extremely powerful things. Sure it's great optimisation but you can only do so much with so little

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

Pray_to_me

This is the point I guess the hermits are missing. PS4 is one product plug and play out the box. You don't have to hack mod patch or build sh!t. 

you dont have to hack, mod or build sh!t on on both pc or consoles, but you are completely wrong on patching games.  now adays, consoles get some patch support.  but wait, since when is getting a patch a bad thing?  you do realize patches fix bugs and balance for a game right?  what do you think that ps3 or 360 system update is?  what do you think those games for your ps3 or 360 are doing when it says they need to be updated?  thats right, they are getting patched.  LMFAO

So you are implying the PC tech is getting more advanced over time? Im shocked! :lol:

BlbecekBobecek

[QUOTE="Heil68"]This is just hilarious.. seanmcloughlin

Isn't SW always hilarious? :lol:

i learn never to listen to lemmings or cows when it comes to graphics, because at the end of the day sony especally beats their chest , yet when the final product is out they show little to no support for it,    if vita isnt anything to go by ,  by now we should have had driver gta gran turismo  but what do we have-- - killzone resistance the same lousy games no one bought in the first place only a couple million vs the 10 million that could easily be sold with a gt or gta game , 

 fact is , im not that hyped for ps4,   im getting one sure but i got a vita to  ill still support nintendo at the end of every road,  because they dont just talk about graphics, 

and when cows brag about there gddr5 bull$%^&   they only set them selves up for post like this one   tc made good job tc exposing them for what they are , yet theyll flail around saying xbox360 has no games,  when its vita that desperatelly needs games 

[QUOTE="Pray_to_me"]

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

Rage010101

This is the point I guess the hermits are missing. PS4 is one product plug and play out the box. You don't have to hack mod patch or build sh!t. 

you dont have to hack, mod or build sh!t on on both pc or consoles, but you are completely wrong on patching games.  now adays, consoles get some patch support.  but wait, since when is getting a patch a bad thing?  you do realize patches fix bugs and balance for a game right?  what do you think that ps3 or 360 system update is?  what do you think those games for your ps3 or 360 are doing when it says they need to be updated?  thats right, they are getting patched.  LMFAO

You can equivocate and obsess about semantics you want. Most people don't feel like building a PC to play videogames. Gaming is in itself a leisurly activity. A waste of time. Jumping through all those hoops to play games on PC you're wasting time to waste time, a double wammy of wackness. Console gamers have lives. There's no way to justify spending 2-3 times as much money, invest 5-10 times the ammount of time just to play xbox ports. 

I don't get it. What does GDDR5 mean and why is this so important?

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] AND I post HSA benchmark from AMD that listed AMD Trinity APU running HSA software stack. ronvalencia

If HSA was software based all GPU from AMD would be HSA by now.. In fact windows HSA mean nothing more than MS software support for HSA compliant hardware nothing more nothing less.

AMD's HSA software is not released yet i.e. plan to be release around late Q3/Q4 2013. It's about the same time as AMD's Fusion Developer Summit 2013 and AMD's Kaveri APU release window.

AMD's fusion partners.

AMD's current OpenCL running on existing driver stack i.e. shares the same driver stack as OpenGL and DirectX

AMD's OpenCL running on the new HSA driver stack.

OpenCL runtime gets moved on top of HSA.

Sorry, HSA would have the existing OpenCL apps i.e. it just runs faster.

PS; Some parts of HSA is hardware e.g. shader interrupts. I haven't checked if HSA can abstract the missing hardware features i.e. non-accelerated path.

I don't get it. What does GDDR5 mean and why is this so important?

The_Power_of_X

It's really fast memory. It's also 8GB which is a collosal jump from what the PS3 and 360 had. But consolites here are making it sound like the determining factor in what will make the new games so good looking. Which it doesn't really, just allows for the system to do a lot more and do simultaneous things like background apps while playing games etc.

But it is a nice thing to have and allows for a lot of headroom so the system doesn't choke up. But it means nothing in a system if the CPU and GPU are crap

Don't piss in the cows cornflakes.

 

The peasants don't often get moments to stand tall.

tenaka2

[QUOTE="The_Power_of_X"]

I don't get it. What does GDDR5 mean and why is this so important?

seanmcloughlin

It's really fast memory. It's also 8GB which is a collosal jump from what the PS3 and 360 had. But consolites here are making it sound like the determining factor in what will make the new games so good looking. Which it doesn't really, just allows for the system to do a lot more and do simultaneous things like background apps while playing games etc.

But it is a nice thing to have and allows for a lot of headroom so the system doesn't choke up. But it means nothing in a system if the CPU and GPU are crap

which they arent..so..everything should be just fine.

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

Rage010101

Thank god I didnt buy new computer this year. Ps4 and 720 for couple of years, then buying new pc (ddr4 and gddr6 goodness for fairly cheap price).

Nohtnym

This is exactly what I do.  I build a PC a couple years into the gen that is not too expensive but is better than the current gen consoles.  Then when next gen consoles come out and (come close) to matching my PC, I wait a couple years before building a new one.

Looking forward to ddr4 motherboards on pc. I think sony/ms would have went with ddr4 if the tech was ready earlier.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

seanmcloughlin

They all get fooled by PR talk. They also think magic console optimisation can do extremely powerful things. Sure it's great optimisation but you can only do so much with so little

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="The_Power_of_X"]

I don't get it. What does GDDR5 mean and why is this so important?

VanDammFan

It's really fast memory. It's also 8GB which is a collosal jump from what the PS3 and 360 had. But consolites here are making it sound like the determining factor in what will make the new games so good looking. Which it doesn't really, just allows for the system to do a lot more and do simultaneous things like background apps while playing games etc.

But it is a nice thing to have and allows for a lot of headroom so the system doesn't choke up. But it means nothing in a system if the CPU and GPU are crap

which they arent..so..everything should be just fine.

They're nothing spectacular either, but yeah definitely not crap anyway

The biggest thing for next gen consoles is the architecture they've gone for, it's much more like a PC now and I'm hoping for great ports between all platforms

So you are implying the PC tech is getting more advanced over time? Im shocked! :lol:

BlbecekBobecek

Hermits lol this only proves the PS4's RAM made them VERY uncomfortable. Everybody knows PC is more powerful than console

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

tormentos

They all get fooled by PR talk. They also think magic console optimisation can do extremely powerful things. Sure it's great optimisation but you can only do so much with so little

I just said it was great, but it can't perform magic like some console people think. I never said they had bad optimisation and console games are always better optimised for their hardware than PC games due to the nature of the consoles themselves.

Stop trying to find and stir sh!t where there is none

lol at cows trying to speak tech.  there hasnt been even one cow in this entire thread who has made sense, not one cow who knows what they are talking about, and not one cow who understands tech.  they think apu's designed for laptops all of a sudden magically outperform dedicated gpu and cpu in the glorious pc world lol.  hey maybe if you sprinkle some more magic fairy dust on that ps4 tech you have no understanding about, maybe it'll grow a crossfire setup out of it's @ss and maybe if you feed dem 8 cores enough chicken, they'll actually clock at a speed worth talking about.

Rage010101

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

KillzoneSnake

So if you care enough about this GDDR5 thing, you will be able to have it on a PC.

Long story short: when DDR4 arrives, GDDR5 will be rendered irrelevant. Quote:

"Once the DDR4 memory comes along the advantages of GDDR5 start to diminish again. DDR4 will enable higher densities at comparable speeds as well as upgradeable modules which might be more desirable for customers."

Also

GDDR6 Memory Coming in 2014

IgGy621985

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

seanmcloughlin

I'm sure there are thousands of console players that would love to have incremental upgrades every now and then for their system. And it's because the hardware is stuck in the same place that devs won't make games that look better than Crysis 3 or KZ:SF. 

Looks like hermits will be counting specs this gen.

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

Douevenlift_bro

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

no-scope-AK47

GDDR5 was a good move. It's available, it's cheap, and it's high bandwidth. That's really all that matters. 

The problem with PC hardware is that developers need to wait a year or two before they can safely start pushing the hardware. A new GPU comes out but the devs can't really utilize it for a few years because they have to support a variety of different aged hardware.

PC gaming is actually the only thing holding back PC gaming. People who buy laptops then go to the PC game forum and ask "can I run Crysis 3 on this?" actually do more damage to PC gaming than consoles do. That is the unfortunate truth about PC gaming which most people here seem to ignore.

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]Yeah, well said. End thread

Douevenlift_bro

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]If you can't afford a gaming pc then console is your next best choice. It is not that console gamers don't care they just got no bank.

no-scope-AK47

All Hail the PS4 and AAA games, exclusives, Multiplats and gaming on your couch in sunlight. YEAH!

Thank you Sony.

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]If you can't afford a gaming pc then console is your next best choice. It is not that console gamers don't care they just got no bank.

no-scope-AK47

Actually Steam hardware statistics don't lie, 95% of gaming rigs are 2+ years old or have the power of a 2+ year old machine. 

Hell 25% of the market is still using Windows XP, a now 12 year old operating system. They wonder why PC gaming is being held back.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

They all get fooled by PR talk. They also think magic console optimisation can do extremely powerful things. Sure it's great optimisation but you can only do so much with so little

seanmcloughlin

I just said it was great, but it can't perform magic like some console people think. I never said they had bad optimisation and console games are always better optimised for their hardware than PC games due to the nature of the consoles themselves.

Stop trying to find and stir sh!t where there is none

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="KillzoneSnake"]

Constantly upgrading i guess is cool if you rich or something. Normal people just buy PS4 and game for years with better exclusives. It's not like devs are gonna be making games that look 10x better than the flop Crysis 3 or KZ SF. Budget, dev time, and most gamers that dont give a ****.

no-scope-AK47

Most people cant afford the that brand new spanking i7 , with dual 690GTXs running in SLI, and 32GB of gddr3 ram (hyperbole i know, but im just trying to make a point :P ) that IGN or GS have for their PC setup. Sure, hardcore gamers with that type of money can afford it, but the majority of the world cant. If you are independently wealthy and can, im really happy for u. If your parents are rich and they spoil you, once again, im happy for u. Some of us though have other more pressing financial obligations and thus cant justify spending so much money on a new rig. So most of us will never get a game running the way we see it on TV/GS/IGN or whatever. And that's a complete bummer and certainly something a lot of people take into consideration when choosing what platform to game on.

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]Pfft :lol: 95% of you PC gamers have crappy rigs. The reason why most gamers play on consoles is, we have all the good games you have + exclusives.

Wasdie

Actually Steam hardware statistics don't lie, 95% of gaming rigs are 2+ years old or have the power of a 2+ year old machine. 

Hell 25% of the market is still using Windows XP, a now 12 year old operating system. They wonder why PC gaming is being held back.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]Keep telling yourself that buddy pc is the best gaming platform. I get it I was a kid once, being broke sucks and I also made fun of the people with a higher standard of life.

no-scope-AK47

Actually Steam hardware statistics don't lie, 95% of gaming rigs are 2+ years old or have the power of a 2+ year old machine. 

Hell 25% of the market is still using Windows XP, a now 12 year old operating system. They wonder why PC gaming is being held back.

Actually a game console is going to be way more capable of a 3 year old laptop for dedicated game processing. The overhead of the operating system and lower clock-speeds of laptops basically make them terrible gaming devices. 

Gaming rigs don't have this issue as much, but they are the smallest percent of actual computer gaming. Most people are gaming on laptops and laptops are never anywhere close to their PC counterparts. Everything is weaker on a laptop. Slower clock speed, less transistors, all of that jazz. The idea is lower heat and lower power consumption. Then you have the OS overhead, the tons of drivers and crap running all of the various components on the laptop adding a lot of overhead, the smaller screens... so many things. Their performance is just terrible.

Why do you think games like World of Tanks, LoL, DotA 2, and WoW are so huge? They run on everything, including the aforementioned laptops that are outperformed by consoles. 

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]Keep telling yourself that buddy pc is the best gaming platform. I get it I was a kid once, being broke sucks and I also made fun of the people with a higher standard of life.

no-scope-AK47

Actually Steam hardware statistics don't lie, 95% of gaming rigs are 2+ years old or have the power of a 2+ year old machine. 

Hell 25% of the market is still using Windows XP, a now 12 year old operating system. They wonder why PC gaming is being held back.

Or they might just buy a console instead of upgrading.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="Pray_to_me"]

This is the point I guess the hermits are missing. PS4 is one product plug and play out the box. You don't have to hack mod patch or build sh!t. 

Pray_to_me

you dont have to hack, mod or build sh!t on on both pc or consoles, but you are completely wrong on patching games.  now adays, consoles get some patch support.  but wait, since when is getting a patch a bad thing?  you do realize patches fix bugs and balance for a game right?  what do you think that ps3 or 360 system update is?  what do you think those games for your ps3 or 360 are doing when it says they need to be updated?  thats right, they are getting patched.  LMFAO

You can equivocate and obsess about semantics you want. Most people don't feel like building a PC to play videogames. Gaming is in itself a leisurly activity. A waste of time. Jumping through all those hoops to play games on PC you're wasting time to waste time, a double wammy of wackness. Console gamers have lives. There's no way to justify spending 2-3 times as much money, invest 5-10 times the ammount of time just to play xbox ports. 

1 - I can build a pc extremely quick in about an hour or two, probably less than an hour if i dont worry about cable management.

2 - If you dont want to build, you can just buy prebuilt.

3 - PC gaming is as expensive as you want it to be.

4 - Xbox ports?  I've bought more pc exclusives year after year than both ps3 and 360 combined lol.

5 - You didn't even attempt to counter any of the points I owned you with because you know it's true.  

LOL at the part when you mentioned "patches"

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]Yeah, well said. End thread

II_Seraphim_II

Most people cant afford the that brand new spanking i7 , with dual 690GTXs running in SLI, and 32GB of gddr3 ram (hyperbole i know, but im just trying to make a point :P ) that IGN or GS have for their PC setup. Sure, hardcore gamers with that type of money can afford it, but the majority of the world cant. If you are independently wealthy and can, im really happy for u. If your parents are rich and they spoil you, once again, im happy for u. Some of us though have other more pressing financial obligations and thus cant justify spending so much money on a new rig. So most of us will never get a game running the way we see it on TV/GS/IGN or whatever. And that's a complete bummer and certainly something a lot of people take into consideration when choosing what platform to game on.

Keep telling yourself that buddy pc is the best gaming platform. I get it I was a kid once, being broke sucks and I also made fun of the people with a higher standard of life.no-scope-AK47