Let me repeat my self again, without GT there would not be a Forza today.
In fact MS first official racer was PGR which was name metropolis street racer before that and was a dreamcast game before the xbox release and MS bought the game and again was after develop after years after GT.
That's asinine. There would racing games with or without GT. Papyrus released racing SIMs years before any GT game released.
@i_p_daily: Ahhh, the whole lack of reading comprehension yet again from you. Go back and reread what I wrote...second thought just don't, you've probably trolled enough today.
They both have their pros and cons. If you want something more sim-like, I would suggest GT, I also believe GT is a bit more technical than Forza. But Forza is more arcadey, and arguably more fun for the general audience.
They both have their pros and cons. If you want something more sim-like, I would suggest GT, I also believe GT is a bit more technical than Forza. But Forza is more arcadey, and arguably more fun for the general audience.
Sums up my experiences with them. I find Forza a better pick up and play title where GT is a little more involved, for better or for worse.
Forza is an arcade and Gran Turismo is a racing simulator. It’s offensive to make this comparison.
They're both more arcade than actual SIM. It's insulting to actual sims to pretend GT is even close.
They're both more sim than arcade. It's insulting to actual arcade racers to pretend GT is even close.
On the simcade scale, I'd say Forza is about 60-40 sim-arcade and GT is about 70-30 sim-arcade. Which makes GT slightly more realistic, but Forza slightly more fun. But neither is quite as fun as proper arcade-style racers like OutRun and Burnout.
@kingtito said:
@tormentos said:
Let me repeat my self again, without GT there would not be a Forza today.
In fact MS first official racer was PGR which was name metropolis street racer before that and was a dreamcast game before the xbox release and MS bought the game and again was after develop after years after GT.
That's asinine. There would racing games with or without GT. Papyrus released racing SIMs years before any GT game released.
Again, the original GT is one of the most influential racing games of all time. It did not invent racing sims, but it certainly popularized the sub-genre. It was the first racing sim to sell in the millions, and the first hit racing sim on consoles. It changed the racing landscape, which was previously dominated by arcade racers before GT came along.
Bullshit Papyrus made nascar and indy racers,in fact they make several games for PS back in the 90s.
They are nothing like GT, SIM racers have existed before GT and i never claim other wise quote me, GT was the first game to allow you to use your own cheap ass non racing car and modify it, this is one of the reasons it was so popular, no more you driving cars you could not own, now you could use your Toyota corolla,or your Honda civic.
There was no racing like GT and with such staggering amount of cars to chose from.
So no nascar and Indy were no like GT at all, hell i remember playing in the arcade hard driving which let you drive a car and had an actual clutch,key and the car would even stop if you pull the clutch to fast.
Racing SIMs have existed for a long time,but not racing games like GT, sega GT and Forza both were clones of GT.
Forza is an arcade and Gran Turismo is a racing simulator. It’s offensive to make this comparison.
They're both more arcade than actual SIM. It's insulting to actual sims to pretend GT is even close.
They're both more sim than arcade. It's insulting to actual arcade racers to pretend GT is even close.
On the simcade scale, I'd say Forza is about 60-40 sim-arcade and GT is about 70-30 sim-arcade. Which makes GT slightly more realistic, but Forza slightly more fun. But neither is quite as fun as proper arcade-style racers like OutRun and Burnout.
@kingtito said:
@tormentos said:
Let me repeat my self again, without GT there would not be a Forza today.
In fact MS first official racer was PGR which was name metropolis street racer before that and was a dreamcast game before the xbox release and MS bought the game and again was after develop after years after GT.
That's asinine. There would racing games with or without GT. Papyrus released racing SIMs years before any GT game released.
Again, the original GT is one of the most influential racing games of all time. It did not invent racing sims, but it certainly popularized the sub-genre. It was the first racing sim to sell in the millions, and the first hit racing sim on consoles. It changed the racing landscape, which was previously dominated by arcade racers before GT came along.
No they're not. They're just as much arcade as they are SIM. They're not more SIM. You want a SIM play iRacing.
So what? They didn't start the genre and they aren't responsible for Forza or any other game close to it.
Bullshit Papyrus made nascar and indy racers,in fact they make several games for PS back in the 90s.
They are nothing like GT, SIM racers have existed before GT and i never claim other wise quote me, GT was the first game to allow you to use your own cheap ass non racing car and modify it, this is one of the reasons it was so popular, no more you driving cars you could not own, now you could use your Toyota corolla,or your Honda civic.
There was no racing like GT and with such staggering amount of cars to chose from.
So no nascar and Indy were no like GT at all, hell i remember playing in the arcade hard driving which let you drive a car and had an actual clutch,key and the car would even stop if you pull the clutch to fast.
Racing SIMs have existed for a long time,but not racing games like GT, sega GT and Forza both were clones of GT.
Without GT there would be no Forza.
So in other words, racing games. You trying to say to GT and Forza aren't racing games? Who cares if the cars are different aren't Indy or Nascar, it's still racing and they were doing it long before GT. GT was popular on consoles because anyone could pick up a controller and play and it had cars that were accessible in real life. Make no mistake GT isn't responsible for Forza. Racing has a huge following outside more so than in the US. You're delusional to think it's the reason we have Forza.
Keep white knighting for Sony you shill. Hope they're paying you well
GT for me as it's always felt more like a simulator than Forza. For a while, Forza's simulation felt like the cars were floating on the track. It felt worse once I started trying PC sims like Race Room and Project Cars.
Forza is an arcade and Gran Turismo is a racing simulator. It’s offensive to make this comparison.
They're both more arcade than actual SIM. It's insulting to actual sims to pretend GT is even close.
They're both more sim than arcade. It's insulting to actual arcade racers to pretend GT is even close.
On the simcade scale, I'd say Forza is about 60-40 sim-arcade and GT is about 70-30 sim-arcade. Which makes GT slightly more realistic, but Forza slightly more fun. But neither is quite as fun as proper arcade-style racers like OutRun and Burnout.
@kingtito said:
@tormentos said:
Let me repeat my self again, without GT there would not be a Forza today.
In fact MS first official racer was PGR which was name metropolis street racer before that and was a dreamcast game before the xbox release and MS bought the game and again was after develop after years after GT.
That's asinine. There would racing games with or without GT. Papyrus released racing SIMs years before any GT game released.
Again, the original GT is one of the most influential racing games of all time. It did not invent racing sims, but it certainly popularized the sub-genre. It was the first racing sim to sell in the millions, and the first hit racing sim on consoles. It changed the racing landscape, which was previously dominated by arcade racers before GT came along.
No they're not. They're just as much arcade as they are SIM. They're not more SIM. You want a SIM play iRacing.
So what? They didn't start the genre and they aren't responsible for Forza or any other game close to it.
GT and Forza have very little in common wirh actual arcade-style racers. Try playing an actual arcade-style racer like OutRun or Burnout. GT and Forza don't come anywhere close to providing the thrilling, physics-defying, arcade-style experiences of, say, OutRun 2 or Burnout 3.
Being the "first" don't mean squat if nothing else is influenced by it. Super Mario Bros didn't invent side-scrolling platformers, Street Fighter II didn't invent fighting games, Doom didn't invent FPS games, etc. Yet they were highly influential games that defined their genres. What really matters is how much influence you have, not being the "first" at something. GT is the grandfather of all modern console racing sims, period.
Just for the record, IGN listed GT as the second most influential racing game of all time, second only to Pole Position:
The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever
Also, Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Both are extremely popular. The only metric we can use without bias is sales. Gamers vote with their wallet. More gamers prefer GT over forza. Forza is on Xbox and PC, while GT is only on PS4 and yet GT stills outsells forza considerably.
Both are extremely popular. The only metric we can use without bias is sales. Gamers vote with their wallet. More gamers prefer GT over forza. Forza is on Xbox and PC, while GT is only on PS4 and yet GT stills outsells forza considerably.
Cows use scores, if that fails use sales lol.
You heard it here first folks, cows love Justin Bieber & Taylor Swift because they sell more than other music, so therefore it must be better :)
@i_p_daily: I knew you'd be the first to reply to me. Scores are subjective. You can use them if you want, as they are a decent indicator of whether or not a game is good. But sales numbers show where gamers spend their money. There are more people on PC and X1 than PS4, so you'd think forza sales numbers would be higher than GT. Both are well known series. So why would more people buy GT over Forza if Forza in their opinion is better? Wouldn't make sense. So what I said was accurate: More gamers prefer the GT series over Forza series. One being better than the other can only be answered by personal opinion.
@i_p_daily: I knew you'd be the first to reply to me. Scores are subjective. You can use them if you want, as they are a decent indicator of whether or not a game is good. But sales numbers show where gamers spend their money. There are more people on PC and X1 than PS4, so you'd think forza sales numbers would be higher than GT. Both are well known series. So why would more people buy GT over Forza if Forza in their opinion is better? Wouldn't make sense. So what I said was accurate: More gamers prefer the GT series over Forza series. One being better than the other can only be answered by personal opinion.
So what you're saying is that you love Justin Bieber because he sells more records than other musicians, so therefore more people like yourself prefer him.
I'm not into simulators but I never liked GT. Not even the older GT games. I probably wouldn't like Forza either but at least they kick out a game every couple years with Horizons in between. You'll get a GT once a generation I think so my vote is for Forza.
@i_p_daily: Close but not really. I don't like GT or Forza, and definitely not Bieber. But if Bieber has sold more albums than Taylor Swift, then I'd say more people like him over her. That's all I'm saying with these two racing series.
@i_p_daily: Close but not really. I don't like GT or Forza, and definitely not Bieber. But if Bieber has sold more albums than Taylor Swift, then I'd say more people like him over her. That's all I'm saying with these two racing series.
So if you don't like racing games why are you in here damage controlling for GT..oh your a cow that's why lol.
I don't care, I just wanted to bash kart racers while I defend the realistic car games.
Edit: You're going to get mad at me when I choose Forza Motorsport Reboot and Gran Turismo 7 over Team Sonic Racing.
Why would i get upset over what you like. Besides there are some many fence sitters in this thread yourself included, how is it so hard to pick one series over the other.
Outside of I_P, nobody plays Forza. GT is a genre defining racer. GT on the ps5 will make the forza counterpart look like an indie game with a $500 budget.
I'll just let the replies in this thread own you :)
@sealionact said:
@hardwenzen said:
Outside of I_P, nobody plays Forza. GT is a genre defining racer. GT on the ps5 will make the forza counterpart look like an indie game with a $500 budget.
You two are just jealous because you can't touch the best around. But since you don't have anything to play until god knows when, you can always use your console to watch some GT footage on youtube 😊No one would blame you if you pretended to be dirving those cars (i know I_P does this every time and for years, anyways) while watching gameplay vids of GT. 😎
your right forza wishes it had a following like grand. grand has competitions all year long. in Europe grand is the most popular racing game by far.
they even have competitions were gamers race against real drivers.
grand is more of a realistic racer. xbox fans can like forza better but it can not compete against grand popularity. grand pre happens every year on grand were the championships happen.
don't get me wrong Im not in car games but if I was forza would be my pick.
Forza is an arcade and Gran Turismo is a racing simulator. It’s offensive to make this comparison.
They're both more arcade than actual SIM. It's insulting to actual sims to pretend GT is even close.
They're both more sim than arcade. It's insulting to actual arcade racers to pretend GT is even close.
On the simcade scale, I'd say Forza is about 60-40 sim-arcade and GT is about 70-30 sim-arcade. Which makes GT slightly more realistic, but Forza slightly more fun. But neither is quite as fun as proper arcade-style racers like OutRun and Burnout.
@kingtito said:
@tormentos said:
Let me repeat my self again, without GT there would not be a Forza today.
In fact MS first official racer was PGR which was name metropolis street racer before that and was a dreamcast game before the xbox release and MS bought the game and again was after develop after years after GT.
That's asinine. There would racing games with or without GT. Papyrus released racing SIMs years before any GT game released.
Again, the original GT is one of the most influential racing games of all time. It did not invent racing sims, but it certainly popularized the sub-genre. It was the first racing sim to sell in the millions, and the first hit racing sim on consoles. It changed the racing landscape, which was previously dominated by arcade racers before GT came along.
No they're not. They're just as much arcade as they are SIM. They're not more SIM. You want a SIM play iRacing.
So what? They didn't start the genre and they aren't responsible for Forza or any other game close to it.
GT and Forza have very little in common wirh actual arcade-style racers. Try playing an actual arcade-style racer like OutRun or Burnout. GT and Forza don't come anywhere close to providing the thrilling, physics-defying, arcade-style experiences of, say, OutRun 2 or Burnout 3.
Being the "first" don't mean squat if nothing else is influenced by it. Super Mario Bros didn't invent side-scrolling platformers, Street Fighter II didn't invent fighting games, Doom didn't invent FPS games, etc. Yet they were highly influential games that defined their genres. What really matters is how much influence you have, not being the "first" at something. GT is the grandfather of all modern console racing sims, period.
Just for the record, IGN listed GT as the second most influential racing game of all time, second only to Pole Position:
The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever
Also, Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
I have and I've played actual sims and neither is even close to games like iRacing.
I don't really care which game came out 1st. That has ZERO to do with what they are now.
Since Forza Motorsport 2 on 360 GT has been dead to me and the last entry Forza Horizon 4 just put them on another level for as a developer, no other racing game has that amount of content, polish and detail out now and its open world... Turn 10 are not to be played with when it comes to the genre and I look forward to seeing what they can do with more power from next generation consoles with the Horizon Franchise and 4 is still one of the best looking games I have ever played, at 4K/60 with HDR on my OLED its sublime.
They're both more sim than arcade. It's insulting to actual arcade racers to pretend GT is even close.
On the simcade scale, I'd say Forza is about 60-40 sim-arcade and GT is about 70-30 sim-arcade. Which makes GT slightly more realistic, but Forza slightly more fun. But neither is quite as fun as proper arcade-style racers like OutRun and Burnout.
Again, the original GT is one of the most influential racing games of all time. It did not invent racing sims, but it certainly popularized the sub-genre. It was the first racing sim to sell in the millions, and the first hit racing sim on consoles. It changed the racing landscape, which was previously dominated by arcade racers before GT came along.
No they're not. They're just as much arcade as they are SIM. They're not more SIM. You want a SIM play iRacing.
So what? They didn't start the genre and they aren't responsible for Forza or any other game close to it.
GT and Forza have very little in common wirh actual arcade-style racers. Try playing an actual arcade-style racer like OutRun or Burnout. GT and Forza don't come anywhere close to providing the thrilling, physics-defying, arcade-style experiences of, say, OutRun 2 or Burnout 3.
Being the "first" don't mean squat if nothing else is influenced by it. Super Mario Bros didn't invent side-scrolling platformers, Street Fighter II didn't invent fighting games, Doom didn't invent FPS games, etc. Yet they were highly influential games that defined their genres. What really matters is how much influence you have, not being the "first" at something. GT is the grandfather of all modern console racing sims, period.
Just for the record, IGN listed GT as the second most influential racing game of all time, second only to Pole Position:
The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever
Also, Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
I have and I've played actual sims and neither is even close to games like iRacing.
I don't really care which game came out 1st. That has ZERO to do with what they are now.
Whether you want to call them "console sims" or "simcade", that's up to you. But my point is that they have far less in common with arcade racers than they do with racing sims. And that should be obvious to anyone familiar with arcade racers (still the best racing sub-genre, IMO).
The point is that GT is the reason why Forza exists. That's just a statement of fact. It has no bearing on which is a better game to play today.
Forza looks better. But I haven't played GT or Forza since forever. I have no idea which series I think feels best to play and is the most fun nowadays.
Am I wrong, or is GT more arcadey feeling than Forza? If so, I might prefer GT.
Whether you want to call them "console sims" or "simcade", that's up to you. But my point is that they have far less in common with arcade racers than they do with racing sims. And that should be obvious to anyone familiar with arcade racers (still the best racing sub-genre, IMO).
The point is that GT is the reason why Forza exists. That's just a statement of fact. It has no bearing on which is a better game to play today.
I don't agree with that. Racing is huge, especially outside the US, and Forza would have been the natural evolution. It just happen to be that GT came out years before the Xbox even launched.
I think you need to work on what's fact and what's your opinion.
Umm ok giff oh PS_John oh sorry el tormented. You have no argument
Oh how original.
Those games are not like GT period what GT brought to the table on its original formula was great, and wasn't done by other racers.
In case you doubt it GT 1 on PS1 has 96% score on meta, GT2 has 93% GT3 has 95% and GT4 has 89% some in the series were higher rated than any forza game on any xbox platform.
Umm ok giff oh PS_John oh sorry el tormented. You have no argument
Oh how original.
Those games are not like GT period what GT brought to the table on its original formula was great, and wasn't done by other racers.
In case you doubt it GT 1 on PS1 has 96% score on meta, GT2 has 93% GT3 has 95% and GT4 has 89% some in the series were higher rated than any forza game on any xbox platform.
GT is an evolution of those racing games PS_John. That shilling though
LOLOL who cares what it scored. No one is calling GT a bad game. You're trying to say GT invented the racing genre, it didn't.
I could use some extra money, can you give me your Sony contact so I can shill for that dough as well?
Whether you want to call them "console sims" or "simcade", that's up to you. But my point is that they have far less in common with arcade racers than they do with racing sims. And that should be obvious to anyone familiar with arcade racers (still the best racing sub-genre, IMO).
The point is that GT is the reason why Forza exists. That's just a statement of fact. It has no bearing on which is a better game to play today.
I don't agree with that. Racing is huge, especially outside the US, and Forza would have been the natural evolution. It just happen to be that GT came out years before the Xbox even launched.
I think you need to work on what's fact and what's your opinion.
You clearly have no idea what a "fact" or "opinion" even means.
This is what you call a fact: Forza owes its existence to Gran Turismo. This is substantiated by evidence, in interviews from the creators of Forza who themselves stated this.
This is what you call an opinion: You believe Forza would've existed regardless of whether Gran Turismo existed. This is what you call an unsubstantiated opinion, since you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your opinion.
What I stated is a fact. What you stated is an opinion. Learn the difference.
I think you need to work on what's fact and what's your opinion.
Not a fact or even a solid opinion, just a logical leap. Could mistake it for a simple error in reasoning, but then there's the purposeful misinterpretation of the interview with the developer.
"We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them."
^
That's what's said in the interview. The interviewer kept bringing the conversation back to GT. The dev responded with recognizing GT as the competition, which is like yeah no shit lol.
Leaping from that to "X wouldn't exist without Y" is a non sequitur.
Whether you want to call them "console sims" or "simcade", that's up to you. But my point is that they have far less in common with arcade racers than they do with racing sims. And that should be obvious to anyone familiar with arcade racers (still the best racing sub-genre, IMO).
The point is that GT is the reason why Forza exists. That's just a statement of fact. It has no bearing on which is a better game to play today.
I don't agree with that. Racing is huge, especially outside the US, and Forza would have been the natural evolution. It just happen to be that GT came out years before the Xbox even launched.
I think you need to work on what's fact and what's your opinion.
You clearly have no idea what a "fact" or "opinion" even means.
This is what you call a fact: Forza owes its existence to Gran Turismo. This is substantiated by evidence, in interviews from the creators of Forza who themselves stated this.
This is what you call an opinion: You believe Forza would've existed regardless of whether Gran Turismo existed. This is what you call an unsubstantiated opinion, since you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your opinion.
What I stated is a fact. What you stated is an opinion. Learn the difference.
Says the man that said GT is the reason for Forza without anything factual to back it up beside GT launched 1st.
You keep confusion fact with opinion. I'm also starting to sense you're having problems dealing with someone that doesn't agree with you.
Well unfortunately we will never know since GT launched years before MS even had a console. What we do know is that racing has a huge following and had it prior to GT launching. We know that eventually games like GT would have come out regardless of the OG GT coming 1st since it was only natural for the console racing evolution. This couldn't be proven either way so it's actually moot but if you want to go that route then Pole Position, Atari racing and Papyrus Nascar is the reason GT exist.
You got that last part reversed. Your opinion is not fact no matter how many times you repeat it.
Whether you want to call them "console sims" or "simcade", that's up to you. But my point is that they have far less in common with arcade racers than they do with racing sims. And that should be obvious to anyone familiar with arcade racers (still the best racing sub-genre, IMO).
The point is that GT is the reason why Forza exists. That's just a statement of fact. It has no bearing on which is a better game to play today.
I don't agree with that. Racing is huge, especially outside the US, and Forza would have been the natural evolution. It just happen to be that GT came out years before the Xbox even launched.
I think you need to work on what's fact and what's your opinion.
You clearly have no idea what a "fact" or "opinion" even means.
This is what you call a fact: Forza owes its existence to Gran Turismo. This is substantiated by evidence, in interviews from the creators of Forza who themselves stated this.
This is what you call an opinion: You believe Forza would've existed regardless of whether Gran Turismo existed. This is what you call an unsubstantiated opinion, since you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your opinion.
What I stated is a fact. What you stated is an opinion. Learn the difference.
Says the man that said GT is the reason for Forza without anything factual to back it up beside GT launched 1st.
"English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?"
I literally just gave you the factual proof above...
@Jag85 said:
Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
Did you even bother clicking on the link? If not, here's the quote:
"I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them."
Straight from the horse's mouth. This is not a matter of opinion. It's a statement of fact. Forza exists because of GT. Nothing you say changes this fact.
I literally just gave you the factual proof above...
@Jag85 said:
Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
Did you even bother clicking on the link? If not, here's the quote:
"I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them."
Straight from the horse's mouth. This is not a matter of opinion. It's a statement of fact. Forza exists because of GT. Nothing you say changes this fact.
GT was the top console game so why wouldn't MS and Turn 10 aim for it? That doesn't mean GT is the reason for Forza. Like I said prior, racing has a huge following especially outside the US. Forza and similar games would have come out either way even if GT had never launched.
I don't think YOU read it or understood it. Targeting the best console racing game =/= the game coming out because of it. It just means they're going to aim to be as good.
You actually failed to prove your point amigo. That statement in no way validates your OPINION that GT is the entire reason Forza exists. Nice try though and uhhh try not to get upset like your buddy el tormented.
GT is an evolution of those racing games PS_John. That shilling though
LOLOL who cares what it scored. No one is calling GT a bad game. You're trying to say GT invented the racing genre, it didn't.
I could use some extra money, can you give me your Sony contact so I can shill for that dough as well?
NO..
That like saying Papyrus games were a evolution of freaking pole position, the shitty argument you are trying to pass here is that since they are racers they are the same which is not TRUE.
Street Fighter is nothing like Smash Brothers, you can claim one take from the other, but the formula is totally different, just like sheep try to claim Sony copy smash bro, when in reality Smash bro copy the king of fighter formula, which joined several snk fighting games into 1, before fighting vipers as well.
So you see GT bring to the table something that was missing and which many games copy after that.
Oh who cares about scores, yeah because they don't favor your ass, the only reason you can claim Forza is now better than GT is SCORES, is the same thing that proved PGR was inferior to GT on xbox and on dreamcast when it was call metropolis street racer.
Kiki Wolfkill: Forza is the first fully customisable driving simulation that's exclusive to Xbox.
Kiki Wolfkill: Yes. We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them.
Dude without GT there would not be Forza.
I don't think Sony can pay more than MS does, and you sure have MS tattoo on your buns man.
That like saying Papyrus games were a evolution of freaking pole position, the shitty argument you are trying to pass here is that since they are racers they are the same which is not TRUE.
Street Fighter is nothing like Smash Brothers, you can claim one take from the other, but the formula is totally different, just like sheep try to claim Sony copy smash bro, when in reality Smash bro copy the king of fighter formula, which joined several snk fighting games into 1, before fighting vipers as well.
So you see GT bring to the table something that was missing and which many games copy after that.
Oh who cares about scores, yeah because they don't favor your ass, the only reason you can claim Forza is now better than GT is SCORES, is the same thing that proved PGR was inferior to GT on xbox and on dreamcast when it was call metropolis street racer.
Kiki Wolfkill: Forza is the first fully customisable driving simulation that's exclusive to Xbox.
Kiki Wolfkill: Yes. We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them.
Dude without GT there would not be Forza.
I don't think Sony can pay more than MS does, and you sure have MS tattoo on your buns man.
And what wouldn't it be an evolution of that game? You guys are claiming Forza is an evolution or copy cat of GT so it would only stand to reason the Papyrus is an evolution of Pole Position.
GT was an evolution of other racing games. It didn't start the genre but it did help popularize console racing but it wasn't the 1st.
Yeah exactly, who cares about scores you clown because scores have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. Don't tell me that your horrendous reading comprehension skills at work again?
Dude that's like your opinion dude. Racing games have existed long before GT and games of that kind would have come out either way. Unfortunately we'll never know now will we. You can speculate all you want el tormented but that wouldn't make it a fact.
Not a fact or even a solid opinion, just a logical leap. Could mistake it for a simple error in reasoning, but then there's the purposeful misinterpretation of the interview with the developer.
"We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them."
^
That's what's said in the interview. The interviewer kept bringing the conversation back to GT. The dev responded with recognizing GT as the competition, which is like yeah no shit lol.
Now this is what you call a purposeful misrepresentation of the interview. The interviewer did not bring the conversation back to GT. It was the developer that brought the conversation back to GT. The interviewer stopped asking about GT a while back, before the developer pivoted the conversation back to GT.
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
Eurogamer: Obviously you've done a huge amount of work on Forza. Do you see it becoming one of the major Xbox franchises?
Kiki Wolfkill: Absolutely. We've been thinking about this game for over five years. We've been waiting for the technology to be mature enough for us to do it, as well as our own team.
Eurogamer: And obviously the online experience as well...
Kiki Wolfkill: Yes. We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them.
Eurogamer: What do you have over Gran Turismo? Is it just a bigger and better game?
Kiki Wolfkill: I don't think it's just bigger and better, I think it's deeper. I also think the idea of personalisation and really making the maximum of your car makes for a more emotional experience than we've found with Gran Turismo. There's a depth there that will make it very exciting.
Eurogamer: You've obviously played Gran Turismo a huge amount. What's the main inspiration you've taken from it?
Kiki Wolfkill: I think the main feeling that comes out of Gran Turismo is very must the respect for motor sport, and that certainly is the foundation on which we started. I think we have the same level of respect. But we want more out of racing games, rather than the same racing games forever.
GT was the top console game so why wouldn't MS and Turn 10 aim for it? That doesn't mean GT is the reason for Forza. Like I said prior, racing has a huge following especially outside the US. Forza and similar games would have come out either way even if GT had never launched.
I don't think YOU read it or understood it. Targeting the best console racing game =/= the game coming out because of it. It just means they're going to aim to be as good.
You actually failed to prove your point amigo. That statement in no way validates your OPINION that GT is the entire reason Forza exists. Nice try though and uhhh try not to get upset like your buddy el tormented.
GT was the reason why sim-style racing was even a thing on consoles. Prior to GT, consoles were dominated by arcade-style racers. It was GT that popularized sim-style racing on consoles, along with the concept of of buying and modifying used cars. This is already explained in the IGN article I posted above...
@Jag85 said:
Just for the record, IGN listed GT as the second most influential racing game of all time, second only to Pole Position:
The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever
Also, Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
You keep saying "outside the US" when Forza is not even from "outside the US". Forza is developed in the US. According to your own logic, Forza would not exist without GT in the US. And do you even realize where most of GT's sales come from? That's right, from outside the US, especially Europe which accounts for the majority of GT's sales.
Tormentos is not my buddy, nor do we share the same position in this thread. I've already made it clear at the start of the thread that I'm not a fan of either GT or Forza, but prefer arcade racers over both of them. I did used to be a GT fan back in the PS1 and PS2 days, but have lost interest in the franchise since then. Personally, I think Forza is slightly more enjoyable out of the two nowadays, since Forza leans slightly more towards arcade (which is more my thing now) and GT slightly more towards sim racing (a genre I've lost interest in).
You're being ridiculously disingenuous here. First in misrepresenting the developers quote. Now in misrepresenting what I said.
The interviewer brought it up first and kept doing so multiple times before and after the excerpt you're quoting. The interviewer made this interview about that comparison. Being like "nuh uh, not right before the quote" is a bit silly man. A weak and dishonest deflection of the overall point. Notice how you conveniently ignored that, also removing me calling it what it is - a non sequitur.
Anyways, not here to argue about it. Just pointing out the error in your reasoning.
Even if the interviewer had never brought it up, the leap from that quote to saying Forza wouldn't exist without GT does not flow logically.
You're being ridiculously disingenuous here. First in misrepresenting the developers quote. Now in misrepresenting what I said.
The interviewer brought it up first and kept doing so multiple times before and after the excerpt you're quoting. The interviewer made this interview about that comparison. Being like "nuh uh, not right before the quote" is a bit silly man. A weak and dishonest deflection of the overall point. Notice how you conveniently ignored that.
Anyways, not here to argue about it. Just pointing out the error in your reasoning.
Not sure if you're being dishonest or disingenious, but you're clearly misrepresenting the interview. It sounds like you're trying to downplay what the developer said about GT by trying to deflect it onto the interviewer, trying to make it sound like the interviewer somehow coaxed the dev into saying that.
However, if you actually look at the full interview in context, that's clearly not the case. The interviewer mentioned three questions about GT early on in the interview, and then stopped asking about it. After those early GT questions, the interviewer then asked six questions that had nothing to do with GT. And then towards the end of the interview, it was the dev who brought GT back up again, which directly led to the interviewer asking two more questions about GT.
Likewise, just pointing out the error in your own reasoning.
Blah, blah, more deflection. Like I said previously, wouldn't even matter if the interviewer brought it up or not. Interesting how you've fixated on that rather than the actual point here.
Look man. Tell me how this -
We absolutely think of this as a huge franchise. I'll be very honest and say that we are targeting Gran Turismo with this game on Xbox, and I think we've been very focussed on that. We have a lot of respect for Gran Turismo, which helps drive that desire to beat them.
GT was the reason why sim-style racing was even a thing on consoles. Prior to GT, consoles were dominated by arcade-style racers. It was GT that popularized sim-style racing on consoles, along with the concept of of buying and modifying used cars. This is already explained in the IGN article I posted above...
@Jag85 said:
Just for the record, IGN listed GT as the second most influential racing game of all time, second only to Pole Position:
The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever
Also, Microsoft themselves said GT is the reason they created Forza, which they created to compete with GT:
Forza Motorsport (2004 Eurogamer interview)
You keep saying "outside the US" when Forza is not even from "outside the US". Forza is developed in the US. According to your own logic, Forza would not exist without GT in the US. And do you even realize where most of GT's sales come from? That's right, from outside the US, especially Europe which accounts for the majority of GT's sales.
Tormentos is not my buddy,nor do we share the same position in this thread. I've already made it clear at the start of the thread that I'm not a fan of either GT or Forza, but prefer arcade racers over both of them. I did used to be a GT fan back in the PS1 and PS2 days, but have lost interest in the franchise since then. Personally, I think Forza is slightly more enjoyable out of the two nowadays, since Forza leans slightly more towards arcade (which is more my thing now) and GT slightly more towards sim racing (a genre I've lost interest in).
GT is the 1st game, not the reason.
Maybe that's because prior to the PS1 consoles weren't powerful enough to have a proper racing game. You keep thinking GT invented the genre.
Your link didn't prove your case so I'd stop referring to it if I were you.
"Especially outside the US" =/= racing wasn't popular inside the US. I'm pointing out how popular racing is around the world. The point is Forza would have come out regardless of GT. Its not rocket science to figure that out.
You sure about that? Yes, you do share the same position. You're both claiming Forza only exist because of GT. That IS the argument you're making here is it not?
It's pretty clear we're not going to see eye to eye on this subject. Let's just agree to disagree
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