What's better? Sony's Gran Turismo series or Microsoft's Forza series?

Now you're just misrepresenting my argument. That was a part of my argument. Not the entire argument...

...Interesting how you've fixated on that last part and missed the entire point. Now that's what you call a deflection.

Look mate, if you're going to attack me over my reasoning, don't be surprised if I respond by finding flaws in your own reasoning. Two can play that game.

Soooo a ramble about influential games and an IGN list? That's what I missed?

Got it, still no facts to support your claim.

FOH man, even for SW this is weak lol. 😂

I'm guessing you're not going to bridge that gap for us?

Your argument this whole time was that something needs to be the "first" to be influential. And now you're saying the opposite.

Back in the '90s, arcade machines were far more powerful than both PC and consoles. Arcade machines had more than enough power to create racing sims better than what was on PC or consoles. But that clearly wasn't the case. Despite having all that power at their disposal, arcade developers largely stayed away from sim racing. It wasn't about power, but it was because arcade-style racing was more suited to the arcade enivronment.

What the link proves is that the Forza developers were influenced by GT.

Again, Turn 10 Studios is a US developer. If a similar game came from outside the US, it wouldn't be Forza, which is a product of Turn 10 Studios in the US. So your point about "outside the US" is moot.

Sure, but that's the only thing we agree upon in this thread. And that's the general consensus that much of the racing game industry agrees upon. Including most Forza fans. So it's baffling why you'd even try to argue against this point.

Sure, we can just agree to disagree. I don't really plan on continuing this debate with you any further.

Ummm no, my argument is that GT isn't the reason Forza exist unlike what you and your buddy are saying.

Ok thanks for the history lesson??????

To a point sure, GT was the most popular console racing game so to aim to be as good was expected. To take that and say GT is the sole reason Forza exist is something entirely different. Something we don't and wont see eye to eye on

Making a game that's sold internationally but good job on pointing out Turn 10 is American.

What? What was that you said to me "Do you speak english mothereffer"? GT was made by a Japanese company so why wouldn't Forza be made, or something similar, if it was made outside the US?

Equally as baffling why you and your buddy are arguing a point you can't prove nor deduce given racing games evolution path.

Finally something we agree on. Have a good day

That's the same kind of reasoning used by conspiracy theory nutcases who deny climate change, COVID-19, the Moon landings, spherical Earth, etc. The way historical and scientific facts are determined is experts in a field examining the evidence and coming to a general consensus.

Are you seriously doubting the widely recognized fact that Street Fighter owes its existence to Karate Champ? Karate Champ is widely recognized as the grandfather of all modern fighting games, including Street Fighter. Without Karate Champ, there is no Street Fighter. That's not "a leap of logic". That's a widely recognized fact, accepted by most experts who specialize in gaming history. The same goes for GT and console racing sims.

Is there any interview of Polyphony actually stating that they were influenced by Indianapolis 500, or at least aware of it? I've already given you an interview of Forza developers acknowledging GT's influence. Is there any such interview acknowledging the influence of Indianapolis 500?

Seriously, couldn't even be arsed to click the link? But then again, this is SW. Actually clicking on a link is probably too much to ask for SWers. I'll just quote it to make it easier for you:

The Top 10 Most Influential Racing Games Ever

2: Gran Turismo

Back in the late ’90s racing simulators were a rare breed on console. Something like 1997’s excellent TOCA Touring Car Championship, available on PC but also brought to the original PlayStation, was an uncommon treat.

Gran Turismo changed all of that. First released in Japan in late 1997 and elsewhere around the world in May 1998, Gran Turismo quickly became a global phenomenon. It went on to not only become the PlayStation’s best-selling game but the grandfather of all modern console racing sims. Not bad for a game assembled by a tiny team that varied between seven to 15 people.

Which explains the wrinkles.

Gran Turismo’s scope was honestly quite unprecedented. Need for Speed II (released in early 1997) boasts nine licensed cars. Gran Turismo has 140, all with their own tuning options, racing modifications, and nuanced handling. It also has 11 tracks. All squished onto a compact disc. It was legitimately hard to comprehend.

Series creator Kazunori Yamauchi expected the original Gran Turismo to be a niche game. History shows it was anything but. Gran Turismo redefined what we expected from a racing game and remains the blueprint upon which even today’s console racing sims are based.

There's quite a few facts contained in the excerpt above. There's also the interview I posted earlier. Add two and two together, and that's already more than enough evidence.

And there's plenty more evidence out there. I could dig up more interviews highlighting GT's influence on Forza, or sales figures highlighting the huge spike in racing sim sales after GT came along, or the big rise in the number of console racing sims after GT came, or various other sources supporting the general consensus that GT inspired the creation of Forza. But it would be a waste of time, because it would be like debating with conspiracy theory nutjobs, who keep demanding more evidence while refusing to provide their own evidence, after having already been presented with more than enough evidence. At this point, it would be bordering on conspiracy theory nonsense to deny the obvious (that GT inspired the creation of Forza) but instead peddle some alt-history claims about how Forza would've still come into existence in some vacuum outside of GT's influence.

And with that said, I'm done with this debate. Good bye, mate.

Forza of course.