What's so good about Zelda?

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

What I would like someone to explain to me is this: if Zelda is in such desperate need of change and is outdated, why has no other company or series been able to replicate the same formula with anywhere the same amount of success? I enjoy Zelda so much because how well the dungeons are designed, and the balance of exploration, combat and puzzle solving it strikes throughout the entirety of the game. Very few other series even attempted to design levels (or games in general) in the same way at all. The closest we've seen is Okami, and while that has an identity of its own the level design and combat doesn't really compare.

If you're not in to this kind of game design that's fine, but the way people talk about the series it's almost as if there's plenty of other series out there that have the Zelda franchise beat 10 times over at it's own game; but I can't think of a single example?

LordQuorthon

Anything that doesn't have voice acting, gore, boobs, online modes and story twists is automatically outdated.

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"]

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

What I would like someone to explain to me is this: if Zelda is in such desperate need of change and is outdated, why has no other company or series been able to replicate the same formula with anywhere the same amount of success? I enjoy Zelda so much because how well the dungeons are designed, and the balance of exploration, combat and puzzle solving it strikes throughout the entirety of the game. Very few other series even attempted to design levels (or games in general) in the same way at all. The closest we've seen is Okami, and while that has an identity of its own the level design and combat doesn't really compare.

If you're not in to this kind of game design that's fine, but the way people talk about the series it's almost as if there's plenty of other series out there that have the Zelda franchise beat 10 times over at it's own game; but I can't think of a single example?

AmazonTreeBoa

Anything that doesn't have voice acting, gore, boobs, online modes and story twists is automatically outdated.

Not only do Zelda games always have gorgeous art, they are full of atmosphere while providing plenty of exploration and extremely clever dungeon design that forces you think about how your arsenal of items relates to your environment. The sophisticated dungeon designs insure that the gameplay is always dynamic.

The Zelda series is good for many of the same reasons that the Metroid series is.

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

What I would like someone to explain to me is this: if Zelda is in such desperate need of change and is outdated, why has no other company or series been able to replicate the same formula with anywhere the same amount of success? I enjoy Zelda so much because how well the dungeons are designed, and the balance of exploration, combat and puzzle solving it strikes throughout the entirety of the game. Very few other series even attempted to design levels (or games in general) in the same way at all. The closest we've seen is Okami, and while that has an identity of its own the level design and combat doesn't really compare.

If you're not in to this kind of game design that's fine, but the way people talk about the series it's almost as if there's plenty of other series out there that have the Zelda franchise beat 10 times over at it's own game; but I can't think of a single example?

meetroid8

Uh, no. Although you're entitled to your opinion, its pretty crazy. The dungeons in Zelda games are much more clever and much more sophisitcated than those in Okami.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

What I would like someone to explain to me is this: if Zelda is in such desperate need of change and is outdated, why has no other company or series been able to replicate the same formula with anywhere the same amount of success? I enjoy Zelda so much because how well the dungeons are designed, and the balance of exploration, combat and puzzle solving it strikes throughout the entirety of the game. Very few other series even attempted to design levels (or games in general) in the same way at all. The closest we've seen is Okami, and while that has an identity of its own the level design and combat doesn't really compare.

If you're not in to this kind of game design that's fine, but the way people talk about the series it's almost as if there's plenty of other series out there that have the Zelda franchise beat 10 times over at it's own game; but I can't think of a single example?

GreySeal9

Uh, no. Although you're entitled to your opinion, its pretty crazy. The dungeons in Zelda games are much more clever and much more sophisitcated than those in Okami.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"] Okami is better than every Zelda ever in every possible way, Especially in level design and combat. chilly-chill

Uh, no. Although you're entitled to your opinion, its pretty crazy. The dungeons in Zelda games are much more clever and much more sophisitcated than those in Okami.

I wasn't arguing which one is better (tho I do think Zelda games are better overall). I was arguing which one has better level design and that is clearly Zelda. It's dungeons are far more intricate with puzzles and an overall structure than is more clever and more well thought out.

In my short experience with Zelda (TP, OoT 3d, the original, MM) it seems to me the variety in quest objectives and exploration. I enjoyed finding things in the game world in Zelda games more than many other games. But seriously, TC, do you think someone is going to suddenly open your eyes to the wonders of Zelda? If your playing one and dont feel it, maybe it just isnt for you.cainetao11

It seems to me that he's judging it too early. Twilight Princess's initital pacing is slow to a fault, but I think the TC might like the game more if he is patient.

[QUOTE="cainetao11"]In my short experience with Zelda (TP, OoT 3d, the original, MM) it seems to me the variety in quest objectives and exploration. I enjoyed finding things in the game world in Zelda games more than many other games. But seriously, TC, do you think someone is going to suddenly open your eyes to the wonders of Zelda? If your playing one and dont feel it, maybe it just isnt for you.GreySeal9

It seems to me that he's judging it too early. Twilight Princess's initital pacing is slow to a fault, but I think the TC might like the game more if he is patient.

Well, for one, the music is always awesome. It's a rule that the games need epic music.

Second, the level design is great, as are the boss battles. They are intricate without being overly complex (in most cases) and show some true talent.

Third, the overworlds are usually full of secrets. Play Wind Waker, you'll see what I mean. There is a great sense of adventure in each game.

Fourth, the stories are usually pretty good. While, yeah, most of them are "save Zelda and the world" there are different elements to each game that really helps define it and make it unique. For instance, I doubt anyone would say that Wind waker's Story and Ocarina of Time's story is the same thing. And even a few of them branch out and go into uncharted territory. (Majora's Mask.)

After playing about 2 hours, I feel that a big negative of it is that it hasn't aged well, even though TP is a 2006 game. Everything about it just screams "OLD!". Maybe Skyward Sword doesn't have that issue, but then again, I don't like the thought of buying that Motion Plus thingy just for that, so I'll pass. For now, I'm leaving Twilight Princess on hold until I'm done with Rayman Origins.starjet905

[QUOTE="starjet905"]After playing about 2 hours, I feel that a big negative of it is that it hasn't aged well, even though TP is a 2006 game. Everything about it just screams "OLD!". Maybe Skyward Sword doesn't have that issue, but then again, I don't like the thought of buying that Motion Plus thingy just for that, so I'll pass. For now, I'm leaving Twilight Princess on hold until I'm done with Rayman Origins.BrunoBRS

Heh, it's interesting seeing a "new generation" take on Zelda.

There is nothing good about modern Zelda. The end.

-

The truth is, cetain game series have had their time. Final Fantasy makes excuses about the "cost of an open world" blaming modern graphics for their linear, tunnel-crawling excuse for a Final Fantasy. Meanwhile games like SKYRIM just sit there and go "hey, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nothing just sitting here with my massive open world, you jelly?".

And Zelda? We have a game that has taken everything *bad* about 3D Zelda and shoved it into a dated, boring Wii title that I could not honestly recommend to anyone. So... to put it simply, welcome to Zelda. It *was* a great game series. The last real Zelda game was Majora's Mask, after that the series became a disaster.

-

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="starjet905"]After playing about 2 hours, I feel that a big negative of it is that it hasn't aged well, even though TP is a 2006 game. Everything about it just screams "OLD!". Maybe Skyward Sword doesn't have that issue, but then again, I don't like the thought of buying that Motion Plus thingy just for that, so I'll pass. For now, I'm leaving Twilight Princess on hold until I'm done with Rayman Origins.starjet905

Heh, it's interesting seeing a "new generation" take on Zelda.

There is nothing good about modern Zelda. The end.

-

The truth is, cetain game series have had their time. Final Fantasy makes excuses about the "cost of an open world" blaming modern graphics for their linear, tunnel-crawling excuse for a Final Fantasy. Meanwhile games like SKYRIM just sit there and go "hey, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nothing just sitting here with my massive open world, you jelly?".

And Zelda? We have a game that has taken everything *bad* about 3D Zelda and shoved it into a dated, boring Wii title that I could not honestly recommend to anyone. So... to put it simply, welcome to Zelda. It *was* a great game series. The last real Zelda game was Majora's Mask, after that the series became a disaster.

-

subrosian

this is the tale of how a somewhat famous user decided to become a troll. there was this guy, named subrosian. the end.BrunoBRS

This is the story of how idiots value nostalgia more than *actual being good*.

By all means, explain to me how Skyward Sword is a better RPG than Skyrim. Does it have better presentation? Does it have more player customization? Does it have a better story, or a more believable world? Do you feel a stronger connection (ignoring nostalgia) to the game on its own versus Skyrim on its own?

-

Outside of Nosalgia, no Zelda after Majora's Mask could actually stand on its own as an "excellent game". Every single one has had an asterisk next to it, like "it gets good if you put in 10 hours to get past the horrible beginning" or "yeah the controls suck, but you get used to them".

-

Zelda is the new Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic has gotten to a point where we're just thankful if the controls mostly work and the voices are kept an octave below "shatters glass". Zelda, we're just hoping that Tingle doesn't show up and want us to guess where on his person he has hidden a rupee.

Heh, it's interesting seeing a "new generation" take on Zelda.

There is nothing good about modern Zelda. The end.

-

The truth is, cetain game series have had their time. Final Fantasy makes excuses about the "cost of an open world" blaming modern graphics for their linear, tunnel-crawling excuse for a Final Fantasy. Meanwhile games like SKYRIM just sit there and go "hey, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nothing just sitting here with my massive open world, you jelly?".

And Zelda? We have a game that has taken everything *bad* about 3D Zelda and shoved it into a dated, boring Wii title that I could not honestly recommend to anyone. So... to put it simply, welcome to Zelda. It *was* a great game series. The last real Zelda game was Majora's Mask, after that the series became a disaster.

-

subrosian

And BTW, why are you mentioning Skyrim? Zelda games aren't RPGs. There really is no similarity between the two series except for the fantasy setting. Besides, in my opinion The Witcher series is superior over TES series. When i play RPGs, plot and storytelling is very very important for me to keep going. And i prefer having choices that have consequences rather than roam around a world without any direction or real purpose.

That there's even a huge debate as to whether Zelda needs some massive changes is evidence enough that it does. Like it or not, it's growing tiresome and people have some very valid complaints. Even Aonuma himself stated in an interview that he's been focusing more on implementing small changes on an established formula since he's been at the helm rather than trying to really evolve the series. I'll see if I can find the quote. When the designer says as much, what can be said? Even HE realizes it. I still hold out hope. MirkoS77

I've never disagreed with that myself, and have always realized that elda has always had small changes while never really "evolving." And personally,that is perfectly fine with me. The Zelda series is keeping the formula that made me love the series in the first place while adding small changes in each title and adding different things to keep each title feeling different in some way.

I just like the worlds and the whole Zelda atmosphere.

oh oh ...the music.that's lovely.

It's Zelda,man.Love it or gtfo.

What is good varies on the game. But general, it is the atmosphere, music, level design, fun progression, lack of Voice Acting (yes this is a good thing) and exploration (Skyward Sword/Zelda 2 excluded)

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had great stories, Skyward Sword has great combat and an excellent inventory system by modern standards, Majora's Mask has great side quests, and so on.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]this is the tale of how a somewhat famous user decided to become a troll. there was this guy, named subrosian. the end.subrosian

This is the story of how idiots value nostalgia more than *actual being good*.

By all means, explain to me how Skyward Sword is a better RPG than Skyrim. Does it have better presentation? Does it have more player customization? Does it have a better story, or a more believable world? Do you feel a stronger connection (ignoring nostalgia) to the game on its own versus Skyrim on its own?

-

Outside of Nosalgia, no Zelda after Majora's Mask could actually stand on its own as an "excellent game". Every single one has had an asterisk next to it, like "it gets good if you put in 10 hours to get past the horrible beginning" or "yeah the controls suck, but you get used to them".

-

Zelda is the new Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic has gotten to a point where we're just thankful if the controls mostly work and the voices are kept an octave below "shatters glass". Zelda, we're just hoping that Tingle doesn't show up and want us to guess where on his person he has hidden a rupee.

What is good varies on the game. But general, it is the atmosphere, music, level design, fun progression, lack of Voice Acting (yes this is a good thing) and exploration (Skyward Sword/Zelda 2 excluded)

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had great stories, Skyward Sword has great combat and an excellent inventory system by modern standards, Majora's Mask has great side quests, and so on.

Maroxad

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What is good varies on the game. But general, it is the atmosphere, music, level design, fun progression, lack of Voice Acting (yes this is a good thing) and exploration (Skyward Sword/Zelda 2 excluded)

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had great stories, Skyward Sword has great combat and an excellent inventory system by modern standards, Majora's Mask has great side quests, and so on.

starjet905

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What is good varies on the game. But general, it is the atmosphere, music, level design, fun progression, lack of Voice Acting (yes this is a good thing) and exploration (Skyward Sword/Zelda 2 excluded)

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had great stories, Skyward Sword has great combat and an excellent inventory system by modern standards, Majora's Mask has great side quests, and so on.

starjet905

improves after the first dungeon.BrunoBRS

Lolz. Don't know, honestly. It appears as it gets free passes because it's an old, boring franchise. But because it's "Zelda" it's supposed to be God. It's a crappy series, Skyward sword proved how crappy it really is.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]improves after the first dungeon.starjet905

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="x-2tha-z"] I disagree. I think TP is a much better starting place. I think the games you mentioned would be like baptism of fire for the modern gamer. TC, just give it more time. I love TP but the start is quite odd to those who don't know Zelda games.DJ-Lafleur

I could understand how one could think TP is the worst 3D Zelda, but worst in the series? lol no.

I'd play TP over Zelda II, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, or Minish Cap in a heartbeat.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

What is good varies on the game. But general, it is the atmosphere, music, level design, fun progression, lack of Voice Acting (yes this is a good thing) and exploration (Skyward Sword/Zelda 2 excluded)

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had great stories, Skyward Sword has great combat and an excellent inventory system by modern standards, Majora's Mask has great side quests, and so on.

starjet905

Twilight princess has excellent music, strong atmosphere, fun progression, lacks (english) voice, has a big world to explore and the temples are some of the best in the series.

However, as you said, the story isnt that good. It is probably the weakest of the 3D Zeldas. Ocarina of Time is probably the best starting point if you are no fan of 2D. Majora's Mask is better but you may miss some of Link's character development if you begin with Majora's Mask. Wind Waker is better than OoT storywise, but I like OoT's level design more.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker have in my opinion some of the fine stories to tell, especially for gaming standards. They are told through subtletly however as opposed to more directly.

Legend of Zelda is one of the greatest franchises of all time. I have fond memories growing up playing the original LoZ, than the N64, GC, havent played the Wii games to much.

I recommend playing Ocarina of Time or A Link to the Past.

Those two are the Best Zelda Games.

Ocarina of Time is the reason i play Zelda games.

At the very root of it it's one of the few games that takes a lot of quite disparate elements and puts them cohesively into one package. Be it combat, exploration and navigation or what have you. Most games have a one-sided focus on one of these elements to the detriment of one of the others or else have several conflicting elements that don't work well with one another because one element is clearly the focus of the game and the other elements were simply extraneous. Zelda however strikes a balance between these where no one single element feel like it is attempting to steal the show. I can't think of many games that do that. It also has a strong focus on attention to detail and design minutiae, much like Mario. Unlike Mario however it's wrapped in consistent narrative context.

Zelda games have excellent design, plots and pacing. It's called an adventure series but it really has turned into a more of a puzzle series since that's become the main source of challenge (particularly the Aonuma ones)

Twilight Princess will turn a lot better later on. I admit that the game is really slow to start. Skyward Sword is very bad in this way too. I find the problem with the series in general is that the middle game is so much stronger than the beginning and end. Part of that is that the games are a bit on the long side. By the end, the impending plot resolution is what drives your interest to continue on moreso than the challenge or adventure. Nintendo likes to drag this part out too.

Another thing about TP is that it has the best dungeons in the series, hands down. To be good at this series you have to be aware of your surroundings and understand all the items and abilities you have because the dungeons will try to make you overlook things. TP does this in a very fair yet challenging way.

You should stick with the TP. You don't need to start with OoT. OoT is better in ways but worse in others. The technical difference is also very noticeable.

GunSmith1_basic

The atmosphere of it all.

And nostalgia. Lots of it.

mmmwksil

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

The atmosphere of it all.

And nostalgia. Lots of it.

lightleggy

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

The atmosphere of it all.

And nostalgia. Lots of it.

BrunoBRS

I like Zelda because of it's formula and because of the dungeons and puzzles, not my childhood memories or whatever. I always buy Zelda games because I always loomf roward to see what kind of pules and dungeons they think up next, or what kind of world they craft. At most nolstalgia may have, like, a 5% impact on if I enjoy a game or not.

Nolstalgia can't make a bad game become good.Nolstalgia didn't prevent Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Zelda II, or Minish Cap from being disappointments to me (not that I found any of them to be bad, but none of them were really great for me, personally). Yoshi's Island is one of my favorite Mario platformers of all time, and I probably have alot of nolstalgia for the game, yet I found the DS sequel to be mediocre and disappointing, despite my love for the original game and my memories of it.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="lightleggy"] this, finally someone who agrees with it. sorry to all zelda fanboys, but yes nostalgia plays a huge role on the sucess of the franchise. also TC, twilight princess is possibly the worst zelda in the franchise, you shouldnt have started with it.lightleggy

I'm a new Nintendo fan. I did not grow up with them. I grew up with Blizzard and PC games. Zelda games are very special and there's no other game like the series except for the Okami series. It's not because of nostalgia but because of its traditional formula and great level design. People who claim nostalgia plays a big role in enjoying Zelda games are actually being ignorant. As have been seen, people who are NOT affected by nostalgia are actually the ones who enjoy modern Zelda games more than people who grew up with the Zelda series. It is the ones who are affected by nostalgia who can't enjoy nor appreciate the modern Zelda games.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

The atmosphere of it all.

And nostalgia. Lots of it.

lightleggy

Can you prove this?

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]this is the tale of how a somewhat famous user decided to become a troll. there was this guy, named subrosian. the end.subrosian

This is the story of how idiots value nostalgia more than *actual being good*.

By all means, explain to me how Skyward Sword is a better RPG than Skyrim. Does it have better presentation? Does it have more player customization? Does it have a better story, or a more believable world? Do you feel a stronger connection (ignoring nostalgia) to the game on its own versus Skyrim on its own?

-

Outside of Nosalgia, no Zelda after Majora's Mask could actually stand on its own as an "excellent game". Every single one has had an asterisk next to it, like "it gets good if you put in 10 hours to get past the horrible beginning" or "yeah the controls suck, but you get used to them".

-

Zelda is the new Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic has gotten to a point where we're just thankful if the controls mostly work and the voices are kept an octave below "shatters glass". Zelda, we're just hoping that Tingle doesn't show up and want us to guess where on his person he has hidden a rupee.

The Metacritic/GameRankings averages make this ridiculous argument invalid.

Don't even bother trying to come back with the stupid nostalgia argument because you can't prove it.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

Heh, it's interesting seeing a "new generation" take on Zelda.

There is nothing good about modern Zelda. The end.

-

The truth is, cetain game series have had their time. Final Fantasy makes excuses about the "cost of an open world" blaming modern graphics for their linear, tunnel-crawling excuse for a Final Fantasy. Meanwhile games like SKYRIM just sit there and go "hey, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nothing just sitting here with my massive open world, you jelly?".

And Zelda? We have a game that has taken everything *bad* about 3D Zelda and shoved it into a dated, boring Wii title that I could not honestly recommend to anyone. So... to put it simply, welcome to Zelda. It *was* a great game series. The last real Zelda game was Majora's Mask, after that the series became a disaster.

-

BrunoBRS

I've always thought his posts were pretentious garbage.

To start off, I haven't played a single Zelda game before. But today, I managed to get my hands on an old GameCube and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. So I figured I'd start playing and find out what's so good about this series. First thing I notice is that the horse controls pretty clunkily. (Maybe it controls better on the Wii version with the wiimote, I dunno.) Then it seems I have to go around herding goats. After that, I played only for a little while, and I'm actually going to get back to it now, but kinda iffy on why this series is considered so good. Can someone tell me what the strengths of this series actually are?

starjet905