What's so good about Zelda?

[QUOTE="starjet905"]

To start off, I haven't played a single Zelda game before. But today, I managed to get my hands on an old GameCube and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. So I figured I'd start playing and find out what's so good about this series. First thing I notice is that the horse controls pretty clunkily. (Maybe it controls better on the Wii version with the wiimote, I dunno.) Then it seems I have to go around herding goats. After that, I played only for a little while, and I'm actually going to get back to it now, but kinda iffy on why this series is considered so good. Can someone tell me what the strengths of this series actually are?

AzatiS

How is Zelda any more "the same" than most franchises out there?

[QUOTE="AzatiS"][QUOTE="starjet905"]

To start off, I haven't played a single Zelda game before. But today, I managed to get my hands on an old GameCube and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. So I figured I'd start playing and find out what's so good about this series. First thing I notice is that the horse controls pretty clunkily. (Maybe it controls better on the Wii version with the wiimote, I dunno.) Then it seems I have to go around herding goats. After that, I played only for a little while, and I'm actually going to get back to it now, but kinda iffy on why this series is considered so good. Can someone tell me what the strengths of this series actually are?

GreySeal9

How is Zelda any more "the same" than most franchises out there?

[QUOTE="starjet905"]

To start off, I haven't played a single Zelda game before. But today, I managed to get my hands on an old GameCube and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. So I figured I'd start playing and find out what's so good about this series. First thing I notice is that the horse controls pretty clunkily. (Maybe it controls better on the Wii version with the wiimote, I dunno.) Then it seems I have to go around herding goats. After that, I played only for a little while, and I'm actually going to get back to it now, but kinda iffy on why this series is considered so good. Can someone tell me what the strengths of this series actually are?

AzatiS

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="AzatiS"] Back then was innovation. Now is nostalgia , nostalgia and more nostalgia while keeping game...the same in too many ways to mention. Zelda : WW = best zelda , art , music , story and atmosphere. Everything else ( except OCarina ) feels like a spin off of Ocarina or WW. AzatiS

How is Zelda any more "the same" than most franchises out there?

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPs. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

[QUOTE="AzatiS"][QUOTE="starjet905"]

How is Zelda any more "the same" than most franchises out there?

charizard1605

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="AzatiS"] Maybe because there are some new IPs out there instead of "the same sold out formula"?AzatiS

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

Apparantly Skyward Sword is excatly the same game as Zelda Spirit Tracks, or that Majora'sMask was an exact copy of The Minish Cap, or that A Link to the PAst is a exactly the same as Wind Waker.

Who knew?

In order for a game to be good,itmust change it's genre every new release.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="AzatiS"] Maybe because there are some new IPs out there instead of "the same sold out formula"?AzatiS

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

DJ-Lafleur

Apparantly Skyward Sword is excatly the same game as elda Spirit Tracks, or that Majora'sMask was an exact copy of The Minish Cap, or that A Link to the PAst is a exactly the same as Wind Waker.

Who knew?

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

GreySeal9

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

Same "sold out" formula? :lol:How does that phrase make any sense at all?

I wasn't asking you about new IPS. I was asking you about other franchises. How is Zelda any more "the same" than other franchises?

GreySeal9

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.Also, it had a much stronger emphasis on action than Zelda 1, as well as RPG elements, implementation of magic and removal of active items such as bows.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.Not to mention the 2 worlds to explore, addition of a plot (as basic as it might be), it also introduced more minigames than just gambling, oh and bottles which has been a staple to the series since.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor. Dont forget the introduction of playing music, which has been a staple to the series. Growing up as well. Similar to AlltP but still stands out in its own ways. Oh yeah, and then there was various suits to equip, not particulary fleshed out as one might have hoped, but still worth mentioning.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.Dont forget to mention that there was a much bigger emphasis on the overworld and side quests compared to previous Zeldas.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.It also had a much bigger emphasis on action again as opposed to exploration. And dont forget inventory management, being able to carry only 4-8 misc items was genious.

Zelda games evolve more than people give them credit for, however, whether the evolution is a good thing is definately in the eye of the beholder.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="AzatiS"] You know many 20 years old franchises to sell the same thing each gen? I dont.

DJ-Lafleur

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="AzatiS"] You know many 20 years old franchises to sell the same thing each gen? I dont.

Maroxad

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.Also, it had a much stronger emphasis on action than Zelda 1, as well as RPG elements, implementation of magic and removal of active items such as bows.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.Not to mention the 2 worlds to explore, addition of a plot (as basic as it might be), it also introduced more minigames than just gambling, oh and bottles which has been a staple to the series since.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor. Dont forget the introduction of playing music, which has been a staple to the series. Growing up as well. Similar to AlltP but still stands out in its own ways. Oh yeah, and then there was various suits to equip, not particulary fleshed out as one might have hoped, but still worth mentioning.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.Dont forget to mention that there was a much bigger emphasis on the overworld and side quests compared to previous Zeldas.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.It also had a much bigger emphasis on action again as opposed to exploration. And dont forget inventory management, being able to carry only 4-8 misc items was genious.

Zelda games evolve more than people give them credit for, however, whether the evolution is a good thing is definately in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks for strenghtening by argument with those good observations. :)

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

AzatiS

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

Those are bigger differences than alot of franchises out there, but it doesn't surprise me that you downplay them. They do kinda destroy your argument.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

AzatiS

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

You are seriously undermining just how big those changes are. :?

For example, the 3 day cycle in MM made MM a vastly different experience from OoT. You couldn't just travel willy-nilly,you always had some sort of pressure to get things done on time due to the moon looming over your head, lest you wanted to have to start all over again when restarting the cycle on day 1. The way you'd go about a dungeon changed,assuming you wanted to collect the fairies within. The whole atmosphere and feelof the game by itslef helped Maora's Mask feel different fromOcarina of Time, despite both games being on the N64, and MM being a sequel to OoT.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Zelda games evolve more than people give them credit for, however, whether the evolution is a good thing is definately in the eye of the beholder.

GreySeal9

Thanks for strenghtening by argument with those good observations. :)

You are welcome, I feel the rehash word is being thrown around a wee bit too much, not just for Nintendo franchises. In Zelda, the structure may be the same, but the emphasis can change quite a bit from game to game. Wether it is exploring with 0 handholding in Zelda 1, to action and platforming in Zelda 2, to structured exploration in Alltp, LA, OoT Oracles and Twilight Princess, or the emphasis on sidequests and world in Majora's Mask or the mixed emphasis in Wind Waker, or the emphasis on combat and problem solving in Skyward Sword.

With the exception of Twilight Princess, each Zelda has managed to stand out in their own ways.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There are a number of differences between the games that you are conveniently ignoring.

The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was radically different as it had sidescrolling sections.

Link To The Past brought much more complexity and structure to the series.

Ocarina of Time was 3D and thus inherently different from its predecessor.

Majora's Mask brought the three-day mechanic, the masks and a story that was unique for the franchise.

Wind Waker brought sailing into the picture, which was a first for the series.

Twilight Princess was something of a "homage", so it suffered from being "samey", but it had the wolf/twilight gimmick.

Skyward Sword clearly has brought a item upgrading mechanic and changes the overworld structure, making it less like a traditional overworld and more like a dungeon. It also largely eliminates some dungeon tropes like pox pushing and torch lighting.

AzatiS

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

The exploration.

The detail.

The items.

The hidden items (heart pieces, poes, bugs, treasures)

The level design

the music

the combat, including item use

the bosses (not suprised so far with SS)

It's just fun, it's probably the best Adventure game ever.

[QUOTE="AzatiS"][QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

Exactly, every Zelda game brings something new to the series to help differentiate it from previous titles and keep it fresh.

BrunoBRS

But of course, you don't play zelda so you don't know anything about it besides what to hate. Azatis

The only 2 zelda games that are amazing from start to finish besides the original are a link to the past and darksiders.

topgunmv

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

The only 2 zelda games that are amazing from start to finish besides the original are a link to the past and darksiders.

raskullibur

I just started Darksiders and got my Scythe up to level 2. It's an alright game, hoping it gets better.

3D dot heroes is better then Links Adventure.

Hype, lots of it.. :O

You just have to get through the beginning. Each Zelda game, imo, has a ridiculously slow start. Once they get going though, they provide adventure on a scale that's simply fun and enjoyable. I played Ocarina of Time for the first time last year, and I found the opening painfully dull. Once they game got going, however, it was really fun.

If anything's to be said about Zelda clones like Darksiders or Okami, they have much better attention getters.

You just have to get through the beginning. Each Zelda game, imo, has a ridiculously slow start. Once they get going though, they provide adventure on a scale that's simply fun and enjoyable. I played Ocarina of Time for the first time last year, and I found the opening painfully dull. Once they game got going, however, it was really fun.

If anything's to be said about Zelda clones like Darksiders or Okami, they have much better attention getters.

IndianaPwns39

I switched my platform from GameCube to Dolphin on PC. Going to have to start over, but I feel the 3 hours again is gonna feel much better. This game looks so good at full HD. (Widescreen hack gives a few glitches with reflections, but overall not bad) Textures are blurry, but I can deal with that. :Dstarjet905

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

You just have to get through the beginning. Each Zelda game, imo, has a ridiculously slow start. Once they get going though, they provide adventure on a scale that's simply fun and enjoyable. I played Ocarina of Time for the first time last year, and I found the opening painfully dull. Once they game got going, however, it was really fun.

If anything's to be said about Zelda clones like Darksiders or Okami, they have much better attention getters.

BrunoBRS

The tutorial of Okami is over rather quickly though, and you get some combat pretty soon into the game. It's boring, but it isn't anywhere near as boring as TP's opening segment. I'm pretty sure I skipped the opening cutscene though, so I might be bias comparing beginnings :P

And Darksiders had pacing issues with the entire story, but the beginning was literally explosions and the end of the world. It catered to the "all flash" idea of this generation.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

You just have to get through the beginning. Each Zelda game, imo, has a ridiculously slow start. Once they get going though, they provide adventure on a scale that's simply fun and enjoyable. I played Ocarina of Time for the first time last year, and I found the opening painfully dull. Once they game got going, however, it was really fun.

If anything's to be said about Zelda clones like Darksiders or Okami, they have much better attention getters.

IndianaPwns39

The tutorial of Okami is over rather quickly though, and you get some combat pretty soon into the game. It's boring, but it isn't anywhere near as boring as TP's opening segment. I'm pretty sure I skipped the opening cutscene though, so I might be bias comparing beginnings :P

And Darksiders had pacing issues with the entire story, but the beginning was literally explosions and the end of the world. It catered to the "all flash" idea of this generation.

It makes me think of things that smell really good.

It makes me think of things that smell really good.

commonfate

[QUOTE="starjet905"]I switched my platform from GameCube to Dolphin on PC. Going to have to start over, but I feel the 3 hours again is gonna feel much better. This game looks so good at full HD. (Widescreen hack gives a few glitches with reflections, but overall not bad) Textures are blurry, but I can deal with that. :DBrunoBRS

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="starjet905"]I switched my platform from GameCube to Dolphin on PC. Going to have to start over, but I feel the 3 hours again is gonna feel much better. This game looks so good at full HD. (Widescreen hack gives a few glitches with reflections, but overall not bad) Textures are blurry, but I can deal with that. :Dstarjet905

[QUOTE="hensothor"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

This is one series I'm not scared to say owes more than its fair share of success to the stuff. :P

chilly-chill

[QUOTE="chilly-chill"][QUOTE="hensothor"] I have no sense of nostalgia to the series, and used to think nostalgia played a part. It doesn't. hensothor

I like them a lot. I think they tie a lot of elements together effectively. But its all personal preference.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]And nostalgia. Lots of it.starjet905

Yes, that's all the series has going for it. If you never played it as a kid the games are pretty much a watered down RPG for kids.KevinButlerVP

Its just Zelda. I cant explain it.

Deal with it.

[QUOTE="starjet905"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]And nostalgia. Lots of it.KevinButlerVP

It's not an RPG, idiot.

I mean, there are legit criticisms of the series, but you guys goes for the dumbest ones. Why?

You just have to get through the beginning. Each Zelda game, imo, has a ridiculously slow start. Once they get going though, they provide adventure on a scale that's simply fun and enjoyable. I played Ocarina of Time for the first time last year, and I found the opening painfully dull. Once they game got going, however, it was really fun.

IndianaPwns39

That's what I loved about ALttP....it has one of the better openings to any game, ever (like Super Metroid and SotN). It starts off very strong and never lets up. You're fighting soldiers and using items in the first five minutes. It had great atmosphere, music, a huge castle with a dungeon, then BAM! you're out with the whole world available to explore. Now, it's like you have to invest at the very least 2-3 hours in a tiny, isolated village herding sheep, collecting s**t, doing menial errands for people before you're even given a wooden sword to be able to attack strawman dummies or be tutored by some "master". I have no desire to even start the new Zeldas because of this.

It's just boring, and is testament to the mandatory hand-holding that Nintendo has been shoving into their games for years now. It seems to me like Nintendo's focus on being more family friendly is impeding them from doing something really radical and drastic from the moment you hit the power button. I believe Miyamoto once said something like (not verbatim), "the most crucial time in a game is in the first thirty minutes". I completely agree, but it makes me wonder if he still feels the same way today. I'd say every new Zelda that we're going to see is going to be a very slow starter, because Heaven forbid we don't want to leave soccor mom Sally and little Johnny out in the cold, now do we?

Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play ALttP to wash this bad taste out of my mouth. :)

To start off, I haven't played a single Zelda game before. But today, I managed to get my hands on an old GameCube and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. So I figured I'd start playing and find out what's so good about this series. First thing I notice is that the horse controls pretty clunkily. (Maybe it controls better on the Wii version with the wiimote, I dunno.) Then it seems I have to go around herding goats. After that, I played only for a little while, and I'm actually going to get back to it now, but kinda iffy on why this series is considered so good. Can someone tell me what the strengths of this series actually are?

starjet905

I'd say every new Zelda that we're going to see is going to be a very slow starter, because Heaven forbid we don't want to leave soccor mom Sally and little Johnny out in the cold, now do we? Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play ALttP to wash this bad taste out of my mouth. :) MirkoS77

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I'd say every new Zelda that we're going to see is going to be a very slow starter, because Heaven forbid we don't want to leave soccor mom Sally and little Johnny out in the cold, now do we? Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play ALttP to wash this bad taste out of my mouth. :) starjet905

I don't know really. I think Nintendo's just so petrified that some people can't grasp all the controls from the get-go they feel the need to introduce each new ability or feature at a snail's pace. That's not just it though, I mean you HAVE to know how to play within the first five minutes. Each time I play Zelda, aside from the early ones, I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot. From Navi, Midna, etc. stating the blatantly obvious, to each item being described EVERY TIME, the entire experience screams to me that it's made and intended for the younger demographic.

Many people think it's incorrect to say Nintendo games are directed at children, but guess what? There's a reason for that: that's exactly how they treat their audience, at least with Zelda. Strange too, as their dungeons and puzzles can be brilliant brain-twisters that would even tax the sharpest adult. But no, we also need to be told the most obvious, stupid things.

Somehow, Zelda has intrigued me a lot. :ostarjet905

[QUOTE="starjet905"] Somehow, Zelda has intrigued me a lot. :oBrunoBRS

From Navi, Midna, etc. stating the blatantly obvious, MirkoS77

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="starjet905"] Somehow, Zelda has intrigued me a lot. :ostarjet905

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

I have no clue.

I've tried every main Zelda game, and dropped them all except Wind Waker.

I might finish Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and OOT at one point, but it won't be anytime soon.

Johnny_Rock

You just mentioned the best game of all time (OOT). Go play it through. You will NOT be disappointed.

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

I have no clue.

I've tried every main Zelda game, and dropped them all except Wind Waker.

I might finish Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and OOT at one point, but it won't be anytime soon.

dr-professional

You just mentioned the best game of all time (OOT). Go play it through. You will NOT be disappointed.

[QUOTE="dr-professional"][QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

You just mentioned the best game of all time (OOT). Go play it through. You will NOT be disappointed.

starjet905

It sold over 7 million copies and is included in many greatest games of all time lists as well. It is hardly forgotten. The combat system, while archaic now, isnt or has never been broken. That honor goes to Skyrim.