What's with Western obssession of shooting games?

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

Because shooters have gentle learning curves.

Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.

Everyone is in a rush, they want to know how to play a game as soon as they pick up the controller. They don't want to have to take the time to learn how to play.

Heil68

And yet Western devs have created RPGs, simulators, and strategy games more complex than anything created in Japan.

I think many of you are missing the point, the weaboos are arguing that western 'gamers' tend to not appreciate more complex games. They are not saying that western developers make easy peasy games

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

And yet Western devs have created RPGs, simulators, and strategy games more complex than anything created in Japan.

NaturalDisplay

[QUOTE="TheEroica"][QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

Because shooters have gentle learning curves.

Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.

Everyone is in a rush, they want to know how to play a game as soon as they pick up the controller. They don't want to have to take the time to learn how to play.

siLVURcross

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

And yet Western devs have created RPGs, simulators, and strategy games more complex than anything created in Japan.

NaturalDisplay

Well you see... It all started with the second amendment of the United States of America, yeehawGhost120x

That would be a pretty convenient explanation for why shooters are more commonly produced in America today...but that wasn't the case when the shooter genre began. Way too many gamers seem to have forgotten that, up until the late 90s, the vast majority of shooters were in fact produced in Japan, not the West... so much so that shooters were seen as a Japanese genre back in those days.

Also, let's not forget how shooters are also popular in European countries where guns are banned, like the UK for example. The Western preference for shooters today, and Japan's current lack thereof, simply reflects the changing trends. A major factor many overlook was 9/11 and the subsequent "War on Terror", which led to military games becoming increasingly popular across the Western world. Since Japan had very little involvement in any of this, that would explain their lack of interest in military games.

And yet Western devs have created RPGs, simulators, and strategy games more complex than anything created in Japan.

Ly_the_Fairy

RPGs? Really now? If anything, WRPGs tend to have shallow combat systems compared to JRPGs. In fact, one might even go as far as saying Western games in general seem to have somewhat shallow combat systems compared to Japanese equivalents, whether it's hack & slash (i.e. Devil May Cry vs God of War), fighting games (i.e. Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat), or even third-person shooters (i.e. Gears of War vs Vanquish).

I'll give you simulators and strategy games though, but even among those, Japan still has the 'complexity' edge over the West in quite a few subgenres (train simulators, dating sims, farming sims, football/soccer, turn-based strategy, tactical RPG, etc.).

No, he´s not. It´s the same old stigmatising nonsense about Western gamers being a bunch of ADHD kids while Japanese gamers are all deep and complex. Japanese games can be every bit as one-dimensional and formulaic as some Western games, just like there are many Western games out there that have an incredible amount of depth and complexity. The mere ubiquity of guns in Western games in comparison to Japanese games doesn´t say anything about ´a short attention span´. It is rather a difference in how guns are perceived in our respective cultures. For the Japanese, sword and other melee fights are much more interesting, but this has nothing to do with attention spans.

But of course, fanboys of Japanese games will use anything as an excuse to talk down gaming culture in the West.

DraugenCP

I think many of you are missing the point, the weaboos are arguing that western 'gamers' tend to not appreciate more complex games. They are not saying that western developers make easy peasy games

NaturalDisplay

Likewise, fanboys of Western games will use anything as an excuse to talk down gaming culture in Japan. If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).Jag85

Play Exile series.

I dunno... gratuitous fun, I suppose? shooting stuff seems to have a bit more impact than say, wacking something with a stick. I have nothing against shooters, but it's a proven formula now that has been milked like hell... It's lost my interest.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]Its one of MANY popular genres... way to generalize though. FlamesOfGrey

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.NaturalDisplay

If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).

Jag85

Easy to answer. It is true Western developers have created games with depth but how many of these games are actually sold? FPS/Madden/Fifa are always the big sellers in the Western market. Strategy games and simulations rarely make it to the top ten. And I don't think Ly_the_Fairy have good comprehension skills. GeoffZak was talking about Western gamers not developers.NaturalDisplay

You really going to bring up sales when trying to defend japanese games that have depth?

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).

blue_hazy_basic

You say that as if the most popular games in Japan are of an abnormally high complexity, while in reality, they don´t often require substantially more skill or intelligence than Western games. Games like FIFA and CoD are popular because they are accessible, appeal to a broad demographic and have good marketing behind them. Less complex stuff will always appeal to more people. This is true for the West, the East, video games, films, music and books.

And even then, I don´t think games like Skyrim, Guild Wars 2 and StarCraft 2 would appeal to people with short attention spans, and yet they´re not doing badly at all here.

DraugenCP

Completely irrelevant. Two wrongs don´t make one right.

DraugenCP

Because shooters have gentle learning curves.

Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.

Everyone is in a rush, they want to know how to play a game as soon as they pick up the controller. They don't want to have to take the time to learn how to play.

GeoffZak

Agreed though its not just western games, its popular games... western devs just happen to be out doing eastern devs in most every case... that said, popular eastern games like final fantasy have recieved their fair share of hate this generation.TheEroica

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).

TheEroica

What's with the brash generalization? That's like saying that the Japanese have an obsession with feeling up school girls on a subway train.

What's with the brash generalization? That's like saying that the Japanese have an obsession with feeling up school girls on a subway train.

Vesica_Prime

Hey, that one's true :P

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).

blue_hazy_basic

No one smashes Halo these days, and wen it happens, it's mostly directed at some rabbid fanboy claiming it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. COD is smashed rightfully so. The generic milkage each year has infused some other developers with the thought that this is the only thing that sells well these days, and they have implemented this thought into their games.

I think a portion of the western gaming community attacks japanese games as much as a portion of the japanese gaming community attacks western games. Both of these groups stupidly generalize. I also think that once people reach a respectable level of a adult mentality, they grow out of sh*t like that, and play whatever.

Not sure why you mentioned Guild Wars 2 or StarCraft 2. The comment is referring to Western gamers, not Western developers. MMO and RTS games are much more popular among Asian (especially Korean) gamers than Western gamers.Jag85

Irrelevant straw man. Two wrongs don't make a right, but pointing out hypocrisy and double-standards does make a right.

What's with the brash generalization? That's like saying that the Japanese have an obsession with feeling up school girls on a subway train.

Vesica_Prime

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

If anything, it's more common among the Western gaming community to attack Japanese games than Western ones (but then again, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite in Japan).

blue_hazy_basic

As for Halo and COD... didn't Halo win the best FPS poll in this forum? Nevertheless, these games usually get attacked for being FPS games, not for being "Western" games. But whenever the likes of Final Fantasy or Metal Gear get attacked, Japanese games in general will get attacked along with it. It's a bit like how, if a white person does something wrong, the media only blames the individual, but if a black or brown person does the same wrong, the media blames his/her whole race/ethnicity/religion. Now replace skin colour with nationality, and the same is almost true for Western and Japanese games (but like I said above, Japanese gamers probably do the same towards Western games).

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.SNIPER4321

(but like I said above, Japanese gamers probably do the same towards Western games).Jag85

Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.

GeoffZak

RTS games and MMOs say f*cking hello. You aren't smarter than anyone because you like overblown, treacly japanese soap operas.

Just with the title I should have known this was a waste of time...

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

Western gamers tend to have short attention spans. They're scared of games with "too many" menus. They're too lazy to learn how to play more complex games like RPGs.

heretrix

RTS games and MMOs say f*cking hello. You aren't smarter than anyone because you like overblown, treacly japanese soap operas.

Most western 'gamers' are the symbol of the crumbling of the industry.

Most western 'gamers' are the symbol of the crumbling of the industry.

NirdBerd

I think the better question is what's with western obsession of shooting games trying to be Call of Duty?

I would like to think that we're in need of a throwback to old school FPS, complete with 8 or more guns on your back, powerups, and "glitchy" movements such as bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, etc.

It's not that I'm obsessed with shooting it's more that I'm obsessed with killing both in and out of video games. Guns are just a nice fast way to kill both people and computer simulated people alike.

MSXBOX4EVER

I think the better question is what's with western obsession of shooting games trying to be Call of Duty?

I would like to think that we're in need of a throwback to old school FPS, complete with 8 or more guns on your back, powerups, and "glitchy" movements such as bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, etc.

flashn00b

Most western 'gamers' are the symbol of the crumbling of the industry.

NirdBerd

What does that mean anyway?

Unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of shooting any of my games, even the crap ones. Guns can be quite difficult to get in Scotland though :P

[QUOTE="NirdBerd"]

Most western 'gamers' are the symbol of the crumbling of the industry.

GD1551

What does that mean anyway?

it's fun to shoot people.

Sigh.

Just because games like CoD, Skyrim and Uncharted are developed in the west doesnt mean that all western games are shallow. Just look at say... any flight sim.

Likewise, just because games like Final Fantasy and *insert X dating sim here* come from japan doesnt mean that all Japanese games are like that. Just look at those fighting games.

Highly accessable, mass appeal games tend to generate much more attention than the more niche products, and thus we pay more attention to these games. Point is, lets not assume that a the products designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator is how all games from a region are like.