Why do Gamers whine so much about progressive themes on games?

@uninspiredcup said:

@tryit said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@ocinom said:

@tryit: Really?

Usually when a person goes from IRL to some other media they automatically become more attractive thanks to directed lines and omitted form, as well as manipulating the form that exists. Dates all the way back to when Royals were painted, a sketched "real life" version would be done, as the fundation with an idealized one placed on top.

That photgraph on the left does this with direct frontal light, manipulated colors and probably airbrushed, among other things. Not arguing for a second though this is bad, since... you want it to look good. That's the point.

The artists at Bioware are either terrible or an evil pink haired unattractive sjw's who wanted to presented a "realistic woman". Which, as we know, nobody likes. We want hot babes in our games dressed inappropriately. We pretend we don't with bad attempts to come across progressive, but really we do.

in game photos that show a radically different story are already in this thread.

the story was a lie.

Na, the game is fully of ugly wugly.

Got enough of those in reality ,don't need em in my fantasy.

lets do an image comparison of the man shall we?

becuase you know who would want to make the man look better than the woman on purpose?

a misogynist not a feminist

@tryit said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@tryit said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@ocinom said:

@tryit: Really?

Usually when a person goes from IRL to some other media they automatically become more attractive thanks to directed lines and omitted form, as well as manipulating the form that exists. Dates all the way back to when Royals were painted, a sketched "real life" version would be done, as the fundation with an idealized one placed on top.

That photgraph on the left does this with direct frontal light, manipulated colors and probably airbrushed, among other things. Not arguing for a second though this is bad, since... you want it to look good. That's the point.

The artists at Bioware are either terrible or an evil pink haired unattractive sjw's who wanted to presented a "realistic woman". Which, as we know, nobody likes. We want hot babes in our games dressed inappropriately. We pretend we don't with bad attempts to come across progressive, but really we do.

in game photos that show a radically different story are already in this thread.

the story was a lie.

Na, the game is fully of ugly wugly.

Got enough of those in reality ,don't need em in my fantasy.

lets do an image comparison of the man shall we?

becuase you know who would want to make the man look better than the woman on purpose?

a misogynist not a feminist

Na, you want to be super handsome alpha male kick-butt in game, surrounded by hot empowered, but willing babes.

Dat fun.

misogynist? would not want to make the woman less attractive then the man? really?

let me look up the word I might have it wrong. nope I have it right.

you are thinking sexist, not misogynist

My favorite book is Mary Of Queen Of Scots by Antonia Fraser. I probably respect woman more than attention seeking sjw who just get upset on a surface level.

Overall, woman are great. But generally better when they look more attractive, it's why makeup was invented and actively used.

lol..

turns out feminists are actually complain about, not enabling, the ME models. That is the problem with advertising a story...people WILL eventually actually look into it..lol

again....misogynist.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/2948293/bioware-accused-of-making-mass-effect-andromeda-female-characters-ugly-in-bizarre-sexism-row/

Exactly! Most people know that women are more attractive than men. Why do you think we can command money from our looks alone? Only a man would man would make a woman ugly and then blame feminists.

Can you provide an example? I can't really think of a game that tries so hard to push LGBT agenda, besides AC Syndicate but that Trans character showed up once, and thats it.

Since WWIII is on the horizon...

I wanted to wait to see how this thread unfolded, but it unsurprisingly started as a ridiculous "Straight Outta Resetera" strawman argument and degraded from there.

I can't help but take notice of its prime instigators' registration dates.

Some gamers have a problem with "progressive" themes in games, but the majority of gamers' criticism centers around certain gaming media publications insisting upon the incorporation of their own "progressive" ideas (I like how those that already mentioned this fact were promptly ignored.) and even going so far as to review certain games negatively if they do not conform to their prescribed social justice checklist. (i.e. Witcher 3, Kingdom Come, Bayonetta, etc.)

To the people claiming "SJWs" don't exist:

These are the differences between an actual "liberal" vs. an authoritarian PoS "SJW:"

You might be a "SJW" if:

• You unironically believe that only "white" people can be racist
• You unironically believe in the concept of "white privilege" vs. "majority privilege"
• You unironically use the term "PoC" without having grown up with a generation of grandparents who often referred to minorities as: "coloreds," "colored people," or worse, and you busted your ass to get them to drop that shit, but now your dumbasses still wants to bring that term back into parlance in an all encompassing fashion. (What happened to that "diversity?")
• You unironically refer to yourself as "woke" or in favor of "social justice." (i.e. Anita Sarkeesian)
• You unironically believe that all "white" people are racist.
• You unironically believe that there are as many genders as there are grains of sand.
• You believe that trans-"activists" have the right to create their own pronoun terminology which the rest of society must now adhere to under penalty of hate speech law. (i.e. xi, xer, latinx etc. )
• You spend the majority of your day virtue signaling. (To those that dispute this fact, it is a thing and it exists in all political spheres (#bringbackourgirls vs. #lockherup). It's useless outside the realm of social media.
• You use the term "problematic" because you're terrified of actually defining your disagreement.
• You believe in "safe spaces."
• You promote your :anti-racism" with racism.
• You believe that Gamergate was a "misogynist" movement and not a rejection of gaming media hypocrisy,

Come at me.

I like that creators can choose what they want for their games and I'm all for variety. I just don't think having a progressive theme should be the main focus when critiquing a game. At the ending of the day, I can't stand over-opinionated people on either side of the debate about politics in games.

@Dasein808: I agree with what you are saying wholeheartedly. The problem I see is not that gamers are evil (which I don't think we are). There is a fear of groups leveraging power against employees and devs to push for the elimination of certain types of games, without having any scientific or even rational basis for doing something like that.

If the movement was in some way logical, sane, or would be additive to the media we have instead of limiting our media to adhere to their specifications I would have less problems with it. But as it stands it's more like a cult or new religion than an argument.

If there wouldn't be a push to socially execute people who make good games that don't fit their agenda, but instead they had raised the discussion point and asked the gamers and developers: wouldn't it be cool to see more races and cultures in games? I don't think there would have been any noteworthy resistance to that idea, and it would have gotten much further than it has now. By being aggressive against good games and their creators and their players as if something is wrong with them, they are turning the gamers who believe in equal rights and opportunities and not in discrimination into their enemies and as someone who is leftist I am concerned that this is hurting our ideals more than it is helping.

Because the gaming community is a majority straight white boys/men, and when gaming companies try to expand to markets and demographics that aren't exclusively straight white boys/men, said gamers start to feel like they're being affronted or attacked. Case in point:

That last bullet has practically nothing to do with anything else you wrote. I used to dwell on 8chan and KiA back when GG pretended to be an important thing. The vast majority of the conversations on those sites were strictly people whining about feminists, female game devs, and LGBT people. Only about one in ten threads were about games journalism or the games media at all beyond just whining about "SJWs".

People don't have a problem if SJWs want their own games. Be my guest.

People have a problem with SJWs dictating that every game should conform to THEIR outlook of the world and everyone who didnt are labelled nazi, racist, sexist and outright evil.

I've already responded to this argument earlier:

That's an interesting assumption to make. For all we know rmpumper who doesn't represent all gamers could have been talking about SJW's who do not play games in the first place when he says 'the people who do not play games in the first place.' And not people who 'aren't straight white boys/men,' You're basically assuming that rmpumper is some kind of racist/sexist/homophobe, which is quite a wild accusation to throw around. I would be pretty angry if someone implied I was any of those.

---

@Jag85

That they use their right of free speech doesn't mean they're not trying to force some kind of belief onto us. I don't think I believe in some kind of big 'feminist' conspiracy among gaming media. But yeah their reviewers are (luckily) not all alike.

Because most people are frauds, and woefully unaware of it. Didnt Illmatic a while back say how most of the so called hardcore gamers are nothing but frauds? This is yet another example of this.

Oh I remember all the crying from all the manboons when Mass Effect, Fire Emblem, Overwatch, Guild Wars 2 had so called SJW in it. They sounded exactly like the social justice warriors they pretend to hate. Just look at this thread.

The moment, you get offended over a freakin' video game. Be it the sexualization of bayonetta or presence of openly gay characters. You should really re-evaluate life.

You can't "force" a belief onto anyone just by publishing some articles on a site. You have a choice whether to agree or disagree with these articles. They're not threatening you if you disagree.

But that's just it, you can't win with these lunatics. If they were pretty = sexist. If they were ugly = sexist.

Yes I agree with that.

That's right. What I had in mind were the rabid Sarkeesian SJW followers who are running gaming while not being gamers themselves, or the soccer moms of Australia, who demanded GTA5 to be banned when they found out that you can punch female NPCs in the game (ignoring the mandatory violence against men in order to progress the story), or the fact that SJW racists (yes, racists) where bitching about white only Witcher 3 ignoring the fact that it is set in fantasy medieval Poland where there weren't any black/asian people in the first place.

But whatever, that PraetorianMan *EDIT (copied the wrong user name before) sure sounds like an SJW as well, so no wonder that s/he feels the need to immediately attack "straight white boys" because in his mind, it is the enemy or whatever.

That's because most "progressive" ideals are regressive.

Many so-called "rabid Sarkeesian SJW followers" are not only gamers, but some are even game developers. Neil Druckmann (The Last of Us, Uncharted 4), for example.

Politicians, both conservative and liberal, have been trying to ban GTA for decades now. This is nothing new.

Medieval Poland did have Asian people, notably Tatars and Mongols, as well as Turks and Arabs. It's historically well-documented. Not aware of medieval Poland having black people though.

I certainly wouldn't consider KungfuKitten to be so-called "SJW".

Ahhh, I think you may have replied to the wrong person cause Kungfukitten seems to be in your defense, and far from an SJW.

@Jag85@SOedipus Thank you for being so nice to clear things up <3 Probably like most people(?) I'm ultra pro equal rights/opportunity/anti-discrimination on race and sex, but I disagree with their methods or group-versus-group mentality.

That's why there are Ofieri characters in Witcher 3, you know, the middle eastern/asian people of the fictional world.

I did, lol. I meant to say PraetorianMan but copied the wrong name.

I never claimed that it's a "feminist conspiracy" or that they don't have the right to criticize games the way that they choose.

Gamers who do not share Polygon's moronic politics also have every right to criticize them for the torpedo effect their reviews have on aggregate metacritic scores.

Most gamers don't care whether or not a game meets all of Polygon or Kotaku's SJW checklists. (i.e. Does it reflect the demographics of the U.S. in 2018 regardless of where and when a game may be set? Are the female characters appropriately dressed/armored and not objectified? etc.)

Meanwhile, they write articles about Luigi's dick or Captain America's ass knowing that they're being hypocritical, but justifying it by claiming that it's okay because women are "oppressed" and men are not. "Punching up," etc.

Yes, it does, because that was, mine and many others', introduction to SJW ideology.

I did to.

If you did, then I suppose you're also aware of the various factions (GG vs. GGrevolt goons) and the troll groups (BWC, GNAA, and other goons) responsible for the actual doxing and death/rape threat bullshit?

Maybe you missed that it wasn't even a hashtag until all those gaming media publications decided to attack their audience for the actions of interlopers.

Did you miss Kotaku gleefully publishing an article about game developer Brad Wardell and a sexual harassment case against him back when they thought he'd be found guilty.

Unfortunately for them, he was found innocent.

When it came to accusations that a female game developer had been involved with a games journalist who had subsequently given her game top billing in an article about 50 different indie games on Steam greenlight, many people wanted to discuss why this was a clear conflict of interest and seemed to be an ongoing thing among a certain clique of San Francisco indie game developers and certain gaming media reporters/outlets.

I think "call-outs" are stupid, but it's apparently a common thing in SJW circles. There was a "call-out" post from her ex-boyfriend who, as a self-described SJW himself, wanted to warn his community of the "toxicity" and duplicity of the woman in question. The majority of his post was composed of social media excerpts from between the two of them, which if actually read, detailed the actions of a highly manipulative and abusive person.

That was when the damage control began. Since she was a woman, this was apparently unacceptable behavior on his part. The reality was, that had the genders been reversed, then she would have been lauded for her bravery in calling out an abusive individual.

The woman in question even went so far as to request her supporters not read what her ex had written, and most complied because of the "no both sides" idiocy practiced by SJWs.

This is one of the main reasons that people were, "whining about feminists, female game devs, LGBT people," and "SJWs." It was because these were the people who composed the majority of the anti-GG morons who were eager to eat up every lie all while smearing gamers in general for the actions of a bunch of antisocial edgelords just trying to stir up shit.

Interestingly, I saw more LGB members in support of the hashtag than opposed to it. There were, however, a vastly greater number of T members on the anti side.

Most of these people were m2f and they appeared to view the entire thing as the perfect opportunity to voice their solidarity and boost their feminine profile (i.e. virtue signal) alongside a "strong" fellow woman. That's not to say that the pro side had no T supporters; they were just vastly outnumbered by an apparent social media clique of anti members who also just so happened to share Something Awful memberships.

Media outlets from: gaming forums, reddit, and 4chan then attempted to shut down nearly all discussion of the matter and collaborated to produce a series of articles attacking gamers in general for having the temerity to demand they stop being hypocrites.

Brad Wardell's unresolved (at the time the original article was written) case was fair game, but any stories about a female game developer accused of similarly abusive behavior were apparently verboten.

Anti-gamergate supporters would then proceed to twist the narrative by saying that gamers were claiming that the woman in question had been given a "preferable review" for her involvement with the reporter in question and they continued to repeat that lie all over social media (most of the people in question appear to spend 18 hours a day on twitter) to the point that by the time the mainstream media took notice, they didn't actually bother fact checking and just ran with the lie.

Unsurprisingly, the whole thing, exploded following the attacking articles and the hashtag was created.

I'm really not that interested in going further into the rest of the history and all that followed because the media's and an allegedly paid wikipedia editor's (he's since been banned from wikipedia, but another equally pathetic editor now protects the entry) lies have all been cemented in the minds of the casual observer for years now. While I did not participate, since I don't use social media, I was monitoring those that did on both sides as well as the chans.

The fact is: the history as written by the media and wikipedia is a complete and total fabrication.

The meltdown conservatives are having is real.

Because if those things are not there to actually benefit the quality of the game and the story, then it's just a forced political message designed only to teach people SJW-think. Gamers just wanna have fun man, we just don't give a damn about your SJW nonsense.

@chrischronos: I can have fun and learn something at the same time. Try again.

@calvincfb: Well that's nice and all but wake me up when a SJW dev is able to perfectly harmonize and sync their own insanity with actual quality entertainment. It didn't work for Mass Effect Andromeda, it certainly didn't work for Star Wars The Last Jedi and just look at what they've done to Starfire in the new Titans TV show, they're turned this hot alien chick into a street hooker bimbo. I don't think SJWs have an ounce of creativity within them to be perfectly honest, it's all about the message. They believe in high censorship, and bitch and moan about pretty much anything and even if you try to pander to them they would still find something to moan about.

At the end of the day nobody is really faulting stuff like women, gays, and diversity in games. It's the people trying to relay these messages to us that are the problem. I'm afraid it's all a figment of your imagination that the majority of gamers are mostly just sexists, homophobes, nazis and racists.

@uninspiredcup said:

Don't fear the themes or have anything against them, just find the vast majority people who promote them extremely dislikable.

usually that is because what you are told that they say and do is not even true

what that means is that if a game has a female role its been forced and they have evidence of that because its a female lead

It's an oxymoron to whine about people that whine about progressive themes in video games.

Is it REALLY forced, or is that how it looks from your perspective cause you're not use to seeing it?

Just food for thought.

I think it all boils down to the fact that gamers tend to only see things from their own tiny, tiny world perspective. If they don't like it, disagree with it, or can't relate to it, it must be dismissed and attacked. Even though the only way it negatively effects them is that they have to tolerate something they don't like in a game they do like -huge blow I know....

Perception is everything in life, if you only look at at something from your own perspective, you will never have the big picture.

Here is my thing with Gamer Gate though. Media and journalism has always been pretty crappy. No journalism is without bias, that's a fact. Even you have a bias, though you'll probably claim you don't like most journalists and be hypocritical. Here's the thing, PEOPLE are writing the articles, and PEOPLE have bias. Gamer Gate is right on that. The best journalism isn't one without bias because that's impossible, the best journalism are the ones with the most sources and facts to back their argument.

However, here is where Gamer Gate is wrong and sexist. They acted like gaming journalism wasn't like that before. They're just now throwing a bitch fit because a woman broke up with her ex, and screwed a few guys in the industry. Really? This happens in every career. This is why people are suspicious. Journalism has been biased, women AND men have been sleeping around for a come up, and gaming in journalism isn't even that important. It's not like Zoe Quinn is a Congress member or Senator, or running for President. It's not like she was a higher up in Obama's administration, so what do they gain from exposing her?

Their problem is that they're paranoid. Not everything is a SJW conspiracy to force diversity. I've talked about how more people are getting into gaming and STEM. This means women, gay people, bisexual people, and people of color are working on or creating games. Of course they would put themselves in the game. Self insert isn't just a term for fanfiction you know. So a black guy might work on a game and put himself, or a more attractive version of himself, in the game. Though according to these paranoid sad fucks, the crazy social justice warriors forced him to do it. SMH. Take myself for example. I don't work in gaming and have no plan to. However, if I did, then I would put a woman who either looks like me, or a more attractive version of myself, into the game. Though if I did, apparently SJWs would have forced me to add a black woman in the game to force diversity. *eye roll*

I never stated that journalism is without bias. It's amusing that millenials seem to believe that they have made this great epiphany about human nature, but the fact is, actual "professionals" recuse themselves from assignments if they believe they may have a conflict of interest (i.e. being friends with the individual in question.)

I've even seen idiot games journalists from the publications in question make the same argument, "Like everyone's biased, so like, who really cares about trying to maintain 'objective' distance."

Wrong answer. GTFO of media if you want to spout postmodern vaguery as justification for being an unscrupulous piece of garbage.

The best journalism is that which strives for objectivity and coverage of facts; not the kind that looks to insert their own political opinions or do favors for friends. If you want to work for media that does such things in the realm of games, then get your publication off of metacritic.

I place 0 value in games journalists' reviews, but it's been stated repeatedly that many games studios' hinge potential developer bonuses on metacritic scores. It's bullshit that their livelihoods should be impinged upon by publications with clear political agendas.

No, they didn't. They acted like there was a clear case of sexism (i.e. the attempted coverup) which favored a woman and they were right.

If you actually read my previous post then you'd see how these publications were chomping at the bit to cover Brad Wardell's (at the time unresolved) sexual harassment case, but chose to circle the wagons and attack their audience when it came to a woman developer involved in a similarly tabloid-esque salacious issue involving conflict of interest.

Most people didn't care that she cheated; he also broke up with her for the record. You'd know this if you had actually read his post.

What bothered people was that a journalist she was fucking subsequently wrote an article about 50 indie games and gave her "non-game" top billing as a favor to a friend. This is indisputable conflict of interest in any professional field.

Again, the focus (from non-3rd party trolling groups known for trolling the relatives of the recently deceased) was less about exposing her and more about exposing the unapologetic corruption of certain gaming media outlets, but the horrible "cis-het white males are the worst" narrative needed to be pushed. So here we are.

I like "eye candy" women. There's no problem with progressive BS with Eastern European and Japanese developers.

It's also free speech to criticize SJWs.

I thought the complaints about TW3 from that guy were freaking hilarious, if we are thinking of that guy on Youtube that would wear fake glasses to make himself look "nerdier". Rags did a video respone, epic response.

There has to be a reason why it is in the game, I have no problems if there is an LGBT or feminist person in the game. The problem is when developers are forced to either place in specific characters to placate to a minority or they are pushing their personal agenda.

I think the problem appears to be the demonization of legitimate criticism, we have all learnt disagreeing with the progressive crowd on any issue no matter how minute or trivial is tantamount to you being the worst human being ever in the history of worst human beings. They take criticism as personal attack.

So if you disliked gone home you are clearly homophobic, if you dislike Black panther you are racist. Disliking the fact that you cant create an attractive female model in mass effect Andromeda clearly you are just a misogynist who hates women. Gamers then take offence at being wrongfully accused and then the show begins with both sides attacking each other.

Also being inclusive means being inclusive to everyone else except for heterosexual males, anything heterosexual males like is bad, and God help you if you are a white male

Well its the feminist that keep telling us women in games are too sexy or some shit, so bioware says OK make them ugly, then the feminist shit on them.

I find it funny as **** personally, both group can go **** themselves, they both have no integrity.

This.

/thread