Why do Gamers whine so much about progressive themes on games?

Your starting to sound as crazy as alex jones... unlike genders subjective taste has more then 2 options, it even has significantly more than 2 dimensions.

that right there exactly is my point.

go to Netflix 99% of all the shows are either A. a comedy or B. a drama based on crime, violence, death or anything extreemly negative.

games....about 80% of them are based on violence.

yeah I have my own crazy theory as to why every single ^&*( TV show seems to have to have a gun in it but you cant deny that entertainment media is hyper focused on violence and negativity.

What are you talking about? And how is that "negative".

Identity is socially constructed, whether you're equipped with a penis or a vagina is not. Identity has more than two dimensions which the people pushing gender identity... ignore... and yes people that are intersex physically are abnormal.

think about what you just asked me.

how is that 'negative'? you ask

how is what 'negative'? killing and violence? are you asking me that?

can you see how I think you people are friggin brainwashed?

here is a random description of one show randomly selected on netflix to illustrate my point, what part of it are you asking me is 'negative'?

here is another one:

They're ordinary husband and wife realtors until she undergoes a dramatic change that sends them down a road of death and destruction

Yorkshire police sergeant Catherine Cawood pursues the man who assaulted her late daughter, unaware he is now part of a secret kidnapping plot.

Alternative facts.

I grew up playing games like Tomb Raider. No one gave a shit. Are you saying people are freaking out, today, about female leads in video games?

@SOedipus: if they're not sexy, yes they do. People whined about reboot Lara, Aloy and new tomb raider movie Lara.

there may be some genuine anti-progressives out there, but imo it is over emphasized, and an insignificantly tiny sliver of the population.

In general, gamers hate it when any kind of idea is shoe-horned into a game without enough care to make it seamless. In games and movies, often progressive themes are accompanied by lazy writing.

There could be some mis directed hate also because progressivism and anti-free speech go hand in hand (often in the guise of anti-hate speech) so perhaps some pro-freedom people will oppose anything when they detect progressive themes because they don't trust the source and would rather not risk manipulation.

And like was already said, it seems like many game reviews will dock points for not being progressive enough. For me, I'm not sure it is a problem because I'm all for games including lots of different kinds of people (more of an aesthetic thing than a moral imperative though), but just know that it is only a matter of time before game reviewers start docking games for having guns in them. I agree that this is ridiculous today, but just add 5 or 10 years and we'll see.

Yeah in the West there is Asian unity due to discrimination in the past and even today people generally feel more comfortable around those of similar backgrounds so it makes sense to befriend/ally with people that look like you and have similar cultures because you're all the same to the prejudice majority anyway or have a hard time relating with them. I'm sure Rose Tico was made with Asian Americans in mind but I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to kill two birds with one stone. Too many people in the West are stuck in their own little bubble of belief that only Whites are racist and have done bad things when in reality every race is racist and did horrible things to other races. It seemed clear to me with last years live action Ghost In The Shell movie, most of the people demanding that all of the main cast be Asian they thought they'd get support from Japan for whitewashing and then when we got word from Japan that most of them liked the casting for the movie suddenly their opinion didn't matter anymore because they're a majority in their own country and this movie should cater to Asian Americans instead since they're a oppressed minority. Little did these people know the Japanese would probably lose their shit if they had the cast made up of Chinese and especially Korean actors.

Some of the hate for Rose Tico in China isn't just because she is Vietnamese but also because she looks and acts like Madame Mao to some of them, if that is true then Disney really screwed up with that character. A lot of Hollywood is lazily pandering to China by having some scenes filmed in China or a token Chinese actor. Black Panther was a recent movie that was 95% Black and it did pretty fine China. Most of the bad reception I've seen for that movie from Chinese people were the older generations which isn't really shocking but all the young people were pretty open minded and enjoyed it.

I guess I don't ever see this outrage, but then again I'm not on social media, and don't watch any news other than that related to the stock market.

Here and there I hear some nonsense about women being objectified in games, and causing sexism, but that is about as silly as saying violent videogames cause mass shootings.

First off, its Star Wars. Where the **** is China in Star Wars? Yes there are nods to many cultures in the films, but c'mon, its a galaxy far, far away, nothing on Earth is supposed to exist there. Secondly, why do people get their panties in a bunch over an Asian actor of descent from one country playing a character of another (Asian) nationality? As though that's the most un-PC, insulting thing. Really? What about when Brits play Americans, Americans play Brits, Aussies play either and either play Germans/Russians/etc, hell even Chris Helmsworth is plays a Norse God and so does Idris friggin' Elba. People need to lighten up.

@Fuhrer_D: while I don't agree women being sexualized in games and other media CAUSES sexism, I do believe that is, in fact, a symptoms of the sexism itself.

And, yeah, you mostly see theses complaints around the Internet.

I never get that argument. Gaming is popular and more people are getting into it and creating it. My brother wants to make a game with his friends and he's making 3 characters: 1 black guy and 2 black girls based off of himself, me, and my sister. He's black, so he's going to make a character that looks like him. That's what people don't get. More black people could be into gaming, so of course they're going to create characters that look like them. It's not to be politically correct, it's what they want to do.

I fail to see how this is SW material but I'll answer anyway.

I don't hate progressive themes in games, I'm quite a progressive liberal person myself irl.

What I don't like tho' is people penalizing games and devs for not following progressive ideas and themes. I believe in creative freedom. Devs should be free to design characters as they see fit as long as their characters aren't harming anyone or promoting violence and racism towards any group of people. Female characters can be designed to be as sexy or as homely as the devs want since there are extremely sexy and homely dressed women in real life. I don't want some douche coming in and trying to make me feel bad for buying a game with sexy looking women in it.

I watch movies with sexy women and I love being around sexy and beautiful women in real life. No amount of political correctness or SJWism is going to make me dislike the sight of sexy women. It's in my genes to be attracted to the female form. I've been enjoying the company and sight of lovely women since I can remember and I don't view women as objects or disrespect them in real life. People that mistreat women already have something wrong with their heads and trying to censor the way women are depicted in videogames won't change those people.

I fully support diversity in games and real life too. I just don't want it to be in a pandering sort of way like Bioware games. Those douches don't know how to do it, and it comes off as annoying and forced.

Or... It could be that more minorities are creating things and make people who look and act like them! Like Ryan Murphy who made Glee. He put gay people in the show because he's gay himself. This isn't about appeasing SJW, this is about him telling his story and the story of his family/friends. My brother is a black guy who wants to make a game with his friends. He wants 3 characters based off of him, my sister, and me. I guess he's trying to appease SJW because he wants them to be black just like us.

If you want more white men in Disney movies, why not apply for a job there? If you get enough influence, I'm sure they would make a movie based off of you or others that look like you.

@luxuryheart: yeah because 60 years of Disney don't have enough white man on movies.

This is what I'm talking about, these guys can't see any sign of minority representation that they cry.

This thread is filled with examples of this

You see this pattern in most countries, where minorities with origins from similar regions/cultures band together into unified communities. The shared minority experience helps overcome differences and unite based on similarities. When Westerners see united Asian minority communities in the West, many make the erroneous assumption it must be like that in Asia, when the reality is far from that. Like the Ghost in the Shell example you mentioned, the way Asian-Americans (including Japanese-Americans) reacted to the whitewashing was very different to how Japanese reacted in Japan, and there was similar differences with Great Wall's casting, well-received in China yet disliked by Asian-Americans. There are also many in the West who claim "weaboos" are "racist" or "culturally appropriating", yet when actual Japanese people in Japan are told about "weaboos", their reactions are often the opposite, that they're glad to see their culture being appreciated abroad. Asians in Asia often don't really know what it's like to be an Asian minority in the West, and vice versa, Asian-Americans often erroneously assume their experiences reflect those of Asians in Asia.

There was a lot of hesitation about how Black Panther would be received in China, yet it performed better than expected. Still, there is a lot of negativity towards Black Panther on Douban, China's equivalent to IMDb. A lot of the negative comments are the kind you might hear from conservatives in the West, complaining about "political correctness" and "pandering" to minorities and what not. But much like America, there could be a generation gap in China, with older audiences more narrow-minded and younger audiences more open-minded. Nowadays, Chinese audience are a lot more open-minded towards non-Hollywood foreign films (from countries like India, Japan, Thailand, France and Spain) than Western audiences (who mostly stick to just Hollywood).

While most Asian minorities in the West would be quite happy for an Asian actor to play a different Asian ethnicity, many people in Asia would have an issue with it. Most Western countries are politically united (i.e. NATO), so most people don't have an issue with a white actor playing a different white ethnicity. But Asia is very divided, with different Asian countries ready to go to war with one another. In such an environment, casting the "wrong kind of Asian" would be an issue. If anything, many people in Asia would much rather prefer "white-washing", casting a white actor in an Asian role, over casting the "wrong kind of Asian".

@calvincfb

"Isn't gaming a media like any other that does expose real life facts and should criticize society(Bioshock comes to mind)?"

What a weird assumption to make.

"Whenever a game has a LGBT or feminist character or deals with the likes of racism, the gaming community whine a lot, is like they fear these themes."

That is also a very weird assumption.

Gaming doesn't need to criticize society and neither does any media. They also don't have to expose real life facts. They're not necessarily made to be commentary on your society or even reality. They can be, but really don't have to be. And if they are it's always set in a fake reality even if that mirrors our society in ways. Most of that is in your head. And gamers don't 'whine' about feminist (?) characters or LGBT or dealing with racism. You sound like someone from one of those echo chambers.

I think the 'whining' if there is such a thing would stem from the extremist sexists and racist 'sjw's' at places like resetera who cannot seem to share information without twisting it in some vile way, or have a discussion or think of a solution that doesn't discriminate people based on gender or race. They are twisted people who we don't want in our lives or anywhere near our hobbies. You'll find that pretty much any gamer will be pro-equal opportunity and against discrimination but the people from those echo chambers cannot be trusted and are making everything worse with their speculation based witchhunts and 'inclusion' through segregation and censorship and their moderators who are turning these places into anti-white and anti-male echo chambers that radicalize people to become self realized racists and sexists and with that they become filled with nonsense, intolerable, wrong.

I am myself a 'leftist' but those places and the people affected by those places are not on our side.

@KungfuKitten: I take it you missed the outrage about Mass Effect 3 and Gone Home.

@MBirdy88: to be honest, you should be able to relate to someone regardless of their skin color or gender.

Video game characters are generally not that deep anyway, so relating to your character? Eh it doesn't really matter to me. Some of my favorite game characters aren't even human.

Personally, I don't think it really matters. People are people. If I can connect with them, empathize with their struggles and share their joy, it really doesn't matter what color their skin is or what organs they have.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why? I dont know but ABSOLUTELY YES are you kidding me?

absolutely positively not

what do you actively do in these games?

the vast majority of them are almost entirely a mass murder simulator.

are you saying these leftys are creating mass murder simulators so that they can inject 20 seconds of a liberal agenda?

its absurd

I remember people getting real angry about the ME3 DLC involving important story bits and the ending being botched. I don't recall an outrage over diversity or anything like that...

What I can find on ME3 is that there was a Facebook vote on which character should be in their new trailer. And a Femshep won. People got angry because the Femshep they picked was blonde and represented the idea of beauty or something like that. Too stereotypical I suppose. People voted on her because they felt she looked the hottest. And then some group of people got upset about that. (Oh no we can't have men vote on looks because then you get a beautiful woman and that's wrong?) That doesn't sound like gamers getting angry about it, that sounds like more resetera-like bullshit?

I can't find anything on the Gone Home outrage? I find gamers who are upset with the price and the short length of the game. But that's probably not what you mean. I don't recall having any issues with that game. I played it. It was interesting because I thought it was going to be a horror game (I was waiting for a jump scare) and the notes kind of fit in with that but it wasn't noteworthy aside from that. I would be very interested to know what it was about because I can't imagine what it would be.

in mass liberals being upset about a lack of diveristy in a game that is vastly mostly about killing is just unbearably ubsurd to me

@tryit: Sorry I had to edit it 40 times as per usual because for some reason I cannot type a post in one go.

@KungfuKitten: obviously you didn't pay much attention. There was tons of people complaining about both those games having gay characters.

oh the liberal agenda in these video games!

No I am not kidding you. The only things I remember people whining about games are Mass Effect sex scenes, some transgender stuff with Baldur's Gate DLC, and black people in Africa (RE5).

out of the blue, out of nowhere, for no reason I can really grasp....Gamergate took the world by storm and out of nowhere tons of gamers became outraged at the idea of female leads

so yeah...sorry you missed it but yeah...out of nowhere things radically changed...yes...why? I dont know

Sorry, but I had to as the message relates.

The best era of Depeche Mode in my view (though I prefer Duran Duran and Oingo Boingo for my eighties synth mood).

@nintendoboy16:

People thinking that movies / games mean anything but dumb fun are just fooling themselves.

The people that make a case against we need x in a movie because y reason, are just straight up idiots.

I think I must have missed that. If that's true then that's a real shame. I would have said something about it if I had seen it happen.

if anything they just put in social agenda stuff because they know it ticks off some people and when people see others ticked off it draws attention to the movie.

aka the reason Michael Moore said the Rights reaction to his films is his best advertisement for people to go see it.

It will backfire just as hard with other people as a result. Even while negative news is still news it can also remove people from seeing it that did wanted to see it.

@tryit: any developer who puts something in a game to piss off potential customers is in the wrong industry.

doesnt matter. it works.

it happens in movies too.

I take it from your position that you are against capitalistic ideals?

@tryit: Name me an example where it worked?

Because it tanked Mass Effect Andromedia.

in video games?

I cant point with certainty but I can say Michael Moore has stated that his movies do well BECAUSE the Right gets outraged which causes more buzz and free advertising for his films.

John Stewart I think has said the same thing, I have heard others in media say it as well.

Video games are more abstract on this because by and large they are not actually doing what you people claim they are doing in the first place.

But I suspect some (like subnautica) but I cant point to it with strong evidence

@tryit: So you agree it doesn't work in videogames?

Michael Moore is irrelevant because all his movies are for far left nutjobs. People on the right generally have no plans to see his propaganda films.

no not remotely what I said and you know it.

regarding Moore why do people on the Right have such a hard time focusing?

I never said he was 'relevant' or not I have no idea what that even means in this context. I am saying it works from a sales persective.

This is pretty much it. Nerd culture has kind of lived in this shell for years and see anything that bucks this norm as invasive. Now that the geeks are a driving force in society, this undercurrent is affecting civilization at large. Especially now that everything is so politically heightened to the point where people that didn't even think about these issues a few years ago currently treat life like a zero sum game.

@tryit: You mentioned Moore and what im saying is your example is irrelevant. And you say I have a hard time following along?

And indie documentry from Michael Moore needs all the PR and marketing it can get. His movies are politically charged. Im sorry but people don't play video games for the same reason they watch indie films with an agenda. Multi-million dollar video games get the best PR by being good not pushing agendas.

look this concept is not hard to wrap your head around

Negative publicity can be good for you depending on context. that is fairly widely known. Trump knows this even.

its not like I am pushing some complex out of left field concept here,

when people completely loose their S88 when a female lead role is suggested to people who are outside that bubble it generates a LOT of attention

@tryit: The difference is for a movie that attention is fine because it takes 2 hours of your time and $10 at a theater. For a game not so much. People don't want to spend $60 on a game because they heard it had a gender queer hero.

"Progressive" themes are fine to see in games, but they aren't and should never be a requirement, a "one true path", a carrot to reward otherwise bad games or a stick to beat otherwise great games.

Demanding that every game has to toe a certain line and do/say X, Y and Z (regardless of what X, Y and Z actually are) is really creepy too. I don't understand people who demand all art conform to a certain specification.

Tomb Raider came out forever ago and folks adore it though? Great reviews and sold millions? Less booby examples would be Perfect Dark and No One Lives Forever... both beloved, rave reviews, and millions of sales for PD at least (granted NOLF is very niche...)

Lol, I can't believe he said that exact phrase. Was thinking the same.

@tryit: then please debate it? Your point is pushing an agenda will give it more PR thus causing it to sell more.

If the only people who care about the hero being a female are on the right.. then its safe to assume that gamers that lean right won't buy the game. So are people on the left going to buy the game even if its not their type of game for the soul purpose of pissing off people on the right? I would guess no they wont.