Why do Gamers whine so much about progressive themes on games?

That's not what GamerGate was about at all. GamerGate was a shitstorm of everything between female player and developer harassment by incel neckbeards, tumblr hugboxes, and terrible nepotism in game media. But ironically, almost none of it had to do with the actual games, or the characters in them.

Only a serious minority of people will ever say they don't want female leads, and those people will say so regardless of any trends or movements.

One of the things i don't understand from this thread is nobody has mentioned exactly which games are pushing an agenda.

Gone Home was a game for the lgbtt community, so why even mention it?

Mass Effect Andromeda, i mean seriously people are mad why?

Uncharted, again what's the issue with seeing to lesbians? Nobody is pushing anything, there are lesbians in this world. Just like there are straight people.

@needhealing: that's because none of them are. These are just a paranoid made up by conservative males as always.

There's no such thing as pushing an agenda in games.

that is correct. people on the right will not buy the video games.

you got it...nailed it.

thing is, there is a fuge ton more non-right wingers in this country and even liss right wingers who care about video game lead characters.

not what I saw.

I saw absolute outrage at the idea of making female lead characters in video games.

that is what it looked like to people who do not swim in that soup, I know because multiple people in my circle of friends approached me (becasue I am a gamer and they are not) and asked me about that very point

I'm not even White and I personally don't care about colors of people. I'm a gamer and that's all I got to say.

@Vaasman

here is how I learned about Gamergate.

I came home one day and open up youtube, there was in front of me multiple videos about this woman anita sarkeesian and tons of attacks on her. I started watching some of them, they were all outraged that she was 'forcing developers to have female leads'.

So I watched some of her videos, what i saw was her just pointing out that most games have male leads and most women in games are hyper sexualized for a male power/sex fantasty.

That was IT....she said nothing more than that. two things everyone already knows!

how do you think that looks to people who do not read bribart on a regular biases?

As I said, gamergate has basically nothing to do with actual games, it's controversy was nearly entirely centered around the people themselves, those involved in the medium. I can see how if you were looking from the outside in that might be one of many misconstructions about a overall confusing-as-**** debate. But no, it had and has no real relation to the characters in games, or at the very least, not to a degree where it's even worth mentioning.

semantics.

what i came home to regarding anna was also not gamergate, whatever it was, whateverv label you perfer I use to describe that. it is what I am talking about.

it was one of the most bizzare creepy things I had ever been exposed to.

and to be frank, some of the things people here have said TODAY that they are against I find rather creepy.

if a developer wants to put in a ugly lesiban female lead who hates on men they have the full right to do so.

This thread has been interesting, kinda disappointed it's just two extremes yelling conspiracy theories now, lol

"YOUR side are a global conspiracy controlling everything!"

"NO, it's YOUR side that control everything!"

XD

I agree

I have multiple theories as to WHY it is as it is.

but I am more interested in getting people to notice how it is first, meaning excessive negativity in all forms of media.

Man, you should have been on Games Discussion forum, we had a GG thread discussion that lasted 2 years until everyone got tired of it, there was so much BS and what really started this GG was because of a woman messing with Phil Fish.

you are lossing the content of what is being said over the incorrect use of one word

Humans are programmed by evolution to be aggressively violent and enjoy sex. No conspiracy needed, we're just dumb apes.

Let's be thankful that most (the world has never been less at war) of humanity practices their violent urges in virtual, consequence free realms.

We have lots of gun games and bloody TV. 100 years ago they had WORLD WAR.

@tryit: In terms of games being destructive I can at least offer one argument: In code it is magnitudes easier to (let players) delete code than to (let players) create code. The second is way harder from a logic perspective, from a performance perspective, from a workload perspective in the case of customization options but aside from that also just the programming perspective. So having something build by developers that gets instantiated when the developers wanted it to, and then let the players destroy it is much simpler than having something there for the player to build on to. To customize or multiply or stack or modify. Even from a controls perspective destroying something tends to be simpler to pull off in an intuitive way because you don't necessarily need the players to rotate parts or attach things to precise locations etc. (a multitude of actions to do in effect one thing) when it comes to just shooting something.

So there is a practical/resource argument to be made that to make something that is constructive rather than destructive it takes more work and thought. And I think it's funny that this happens in code because it's certainly true for most things in real life as well.

and another thing.

I self identify myself as a progressive. During and before the Iraq war I would listen to Democracy Now daily, today if I had cable TV i would likely never miss a Rachael Maddow show.

Teddy Rossevelt is my hero and favorite president ever.

Having those progressive ideals I have to say i am insulted at the suggestion that we as progressives would use a game that is 95% mass murder, to promote a social agenda.

its absurd.

Now I like violence in my video game like many gamers but I would never use a platform of violence like that to push my morality

A big problem we have these days (and not just on this trivial issue) is that there is enough text/audio/video/images on the internet, from enough people of varied backgrounds/identities/beliefs, that you can find piles evidence to prove just about any claim or opinion. All searched and presented by our lovely free Google!

You can instantly find a thousand hate comments about women in games, and you could just as easily find a thousand pro-women-in-games comments.

Any vague general statement like "gamers whine about progressive themes" is basically worthless. You can post a mountain of evidence either for or against such a claim. That's before we even consider "fake news".

We're drowning in information. Damn Huxley, right again.

I do not think that is true.

not to the level and exclusion of everything else that the media presents it.

I think THAT logic is faulty and untrue.

BUT i concede it might be which is in part why i am glad I do not have kids.

I just would not uderstand why anyone would want kids if that is the world our biology demands of us

@tryit: How would you use a game to promote a social agenda though? At most it can present an opinion... unless the game is incredibly convincing in its argument through manipulative tactics. But in that case presidential campaigns are a much bigger more important problem than a video game can be. Or do you mean the way the USA is taking footage of violent video games to showcase how dangerous games are for the American society? Because that story is not really based on much if anything, not so much a push as it is a whiff ^__^ Although I suppose with the right idiots in government a whiff can result in a new law.

not quite sure what you are saying.

if you are trying to say that creating a violent video game is easier then not, as a programmer myself I can tell you that you are wrong.

I know I enjoy violent games. I enjoy machine gunning and slashing and curb stomping enemies. It feels good.

I also enjoyed playing rugby in real life. It was fun to smash into another human and use my physical strength to bring him down.

There is no logical or intellectual or moral backing to this. It just feels good. Humanity might be better off if we got that "feelgood" kick from other things. But evolution isn't positive or negative, it's just whatever worked.

Your potential kids could get their inbuilt biological urges sated in safe, consequence free ways, hopefully! That's basically what human society and politics are, how do we get a bunch of dumb, violent, horny apes to just chill out and get on with each other?

I used to aspire to greater things for humanity and think we had a "higher purpose"... but nowadays, I'll settle for the nukes not flying and the rape and murder rates getting as low as possible!

I think it is possible, much like a movie it is possible, but for those serious about a cause its usually not the best way.

Historically what appears as social statements by media is actually a reflection of existing culture changes which they want to strike a cord with. Its usually a mirror of existing social changes, not the promotion of them itself.

Coke for example, did not make the famous 'I'd like to teach the world to sing' add because they were part of the 60s counter culture and wanting to promote civil rights. They did it because they wanted to sell Coke to those people

I dont like those things.

I tolerate violence in video games because I still like the interactivity of video games but not really a fan of all that to be frank.

But never the less if what you say is true and that is human nature I have a question for you (as someone looking from the outside in) why do people want to have childern if they adore violence so much?

Because they enjoy boning even more?

@tryit: Probably the most powerful urge of all is sex and procreation.

Enjoying violence (whether real or virtual) doesn't contradict wanting sex and procreation.

so the vast majority of kids in this world made by this violent hungry species of ours where all a mistake.

and you guys think my theories are wacked?

ok your theory of how things are is starting to sound more bizzaro then mine

Humanity adores violence and all the kids in the world are either a mistake or because of an urge to procreate despite knowing full well they all have an extreeme adoration for violence.

no..I think people do NOT have an adoration for violence, I think if we did you would see more of it in real life, it would not be against the law even.

I think your theory is far more bizzaro the mind

That isn't what I said at all, although it honestly would not surprise me if that were true.

@tryit: I mean, it's not a theory that humans (in general, there's always exceptions to every rule) enjoy sex and violence.

Humans like fighting and love f*cking. There's no contradiction. We can enjoy two things.

ok that is a contradiction if I ever heard one.

so try saying what you said again...lets see how it sounds a second time

no ...

its a theory.

you THINK its scientific fact but its actually NOT.

again..if it were true in the several thousands of years we have been able to fine tune society we would have made it legal to do the one thing we clearly adore to to themost, which is beat the s*** out of our neighboor.

Reality is, humans, like all other mammals do NOT adore violence and only do it for survial. THAT is the fact

@tryit: If we don't enjoy violence, and only do it for survival, why are hundreds of millions of us playing violent games (digital and physical)?

Shadowy global conspiracy? Joooos? :P

ah ha! there lies the question, the soure of my theories.

why do we indeed?

one thing is for sure, its not because humanity adores violence. so it must be for a different reason.

I have two possible theories, because we love to beat the sh*t of out each other is not one of them

People love to bang and that will frequently lead to children. This is not an issue of whether the children are intended or not, if they are intended that doesn't change anything. People will do the horizontal tango with either interest in mind. That is the simple fact of the matter.

Attraction to violence material and attraction to sex and/or procreation are not mutually exclusive.

your not following me here I get it people like to bang, moving on....

do 100% of them not want kids but their desire to bang is outweighed by their desire to bring kids into a violent world? or is it a mixture?

if its a mixture then does that mean some of them know that humanity adores violence and WANTS to bring kids into it? if so, why?

lets start with that.

I very much agree, but the culture element is a different story entirely.

e.g , in the uk there was a comedy bbc was advertising "White Man, and his first Ramadan" "Hilarious Comedy where a white man joins islam" ..... yea hilarious, not targeted at all.

Imagine the reverse... just imagine.... how well that would go down.

@KungfuKitten: unfortunately I'm not making it up. Here's a article about an employee of Bioware being harrassed because the assumption that because she's a female she must be responsible for everything wrong with the game including the inclusion of gay characters (she wasn't even involved with Mass Effect 3 but she did work on Dragon Age 2 which also resulted in a sexist and homophobic outrage)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/02/21/bioware-hepler-harassment/?s=trending#2ed2b0a01365

good example!

on reading part of that regarding if she does or does not like playing video games I think it shouldn't mater either way. Serena Williams has said she doesnt like the sport of tennis yet she is very good.

I dont think I have ever liked a day of work in my life, so what does that mean?

You're thinking way too fucking hard about things that come to people instinctually. I would guess not even 10% of people care about the state of the world when they are interested in plowtown and/or having a kid. Interest in procreation is a far greater evolutionary advantage than interest in violent behavior, therefore we will have babies more than we will eat babies.

but dude if we has humans adore violence so much that its nearly the only thing in TV and in games surely we are aware of our own desires.

right? do we not know we love violence?

(let me start with that question)

if we love violence so much why wouldnt we see more of it in real life? like a LOT more of it, why wouldnt thousand of years of legal system make it illegal to do if its one of the primary functions of our existence?

We've already started with two or three other questions but alright. The answer is yes obviously, because we're also smart enough to think about our own existence and how sometimes it doesn't make sense.

yeah I got carried away

so if we are consciously aware that we has humans adore violence my second question is

does that mean 100% of all births are by accident because we like to bone

OR

are some of them still done with the full knowedge that said parents are bringing a child into a world in which one of the most favorite things a human likes to do is kill other people but they do it anyway

?

Gamergate was about a guy wanting to harass and cyber-abuse his ex, with the backing of misogynistic gamers, for dumping him. He even slandered her about sleeping with guys for great reviews which was a lie. It grew out of control and the guy who started it got a new girlfriend and is over it.

It's the second one. Which is still mostly assuming people are aware of or even care about what inherent interests they hold. People do hold a fascination with violence, and may be prone to it when pushed, but they also value social structure, stability, family, and creature comforts. These are not a binary selection of baseline emotions, they all exist in some form at the same time.

Well said

Well he is sort of right. Gaming and journalism in gaming got scapegoated. It all started because Zoe Quinn dated a guy for a few months and broke up with him. From that moment on, he cyber-abused her with an army of sexist gamers and went on to tell lies about how she sleeps with journalists for good reviews. Soon they decided to be about the corruption in journalism and all that jazz, which they used as a reason to harass women and men who defend women.

I think that is an absurd theory.

I know its just a theory not based on fact.

The theory is that humanity adores violence, its one of the things they enjoy doing more than most things, yet its illegal, many are fully aware of their lust for killing and decide to have babies anyway. Those who do not have a lust for violence and find that rather disgusting to want to have kids so that you can have more killing machines are just outliers and not really human.

that is the theory in a nutshell

I think its grade A horseshit

not a single part of that triva changes what I said in the least.

where you just replying to the wrong person?

As far as I read that stuff was true, I don't think there was any provided evidence that all parties involved weren't being shitty. Part of the initial post was inclusion of phone messages that more or less paint a certain picture. But I think we can agree it's personal business and no one should leak that sort of thing about anyone.

More to the point, Gamergate was multifaceted to say the least, and saying it's about any single thing would mean ignoring a big part of the picture.

Exactly. That should also be the case for people who would abstain for purchasing such content, they should have the right to do so without being label a bigot or something of that nature.