Why do oblivion haters believe that Skyrim will be GOTY?

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TailBlood

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#51 TailBlood
Member since 2011 • 944 Posts

[QUOTE="TailBlood"] "They are making it into a bigger and deeper game"... K. Look at what Betheda has said. It's been dumbed down even further.

I just wonder. To those who thought oblivion was not good. They will say the same about Skyrim.

Oblivion was a monster when it launched. 95% in metacritic, and the game with the most ammount of GOTY awards that year. (More than Gears).

Yet, the community hated it (like every other game, when it becomes popular), due to being less "hardcore" than Morrowind.

Which puzzles me, because Skyrim is going to be less "hardcore" than oblivion. :?

Shielder7



1. It's not dumbed down in fact they've made it more complicated with the perk system they've taken away a few skills and added perk trees to each one.

2. The community never hated it just the haters haters going to hate.

3. GOTY will be a 4 way battle between MW 3, Dark Souls, BFBC 3 and Skyrim (Maybe Uncharted 3)

Too generic of choices, plus none of these games have been out yet. Like it has been for a couple of years now, either a game released in the first half year or an underdog. (Mario galaxy, Metal gear solid 4, Demons souls, Red dead.)

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StealthMonkey4

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#52 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts

[QUOTE="Zurrur"]

Skyrim looks horrible game and it will suck just like oblivion did

Jankarcop

I certrainly hope it sucks as bad as Oblivion......9.6 at GS, 9.4 at metacritic, and tons of GOTY's.

btw this game is more hardcore in actual gameplay - no more backpedaling, timed blocking, less level scaling, and balanced spells this time.

I lol'd.

The only people who hate Oblivion seem to be on SW. Oblivion may not have the best AI and the world may be bland at times, but it's a blast to play and the fun greatly outweighs any nitpicking that people can find. I mean criticslove it, regular gamers (inclduing those on GameSpot) love it, and it's sold good, I don't see what I'm missing, why does SW hate it so much..?

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TailBlood

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#53 TailBlood
Member since 2011 • 944 Posts

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

[QUOTE="Zurrur"]

Skyrim looks horrible game and it will suck just like oblivion did

StealthMonkey4

I certrainly hope it sucks as bad as Oblivion......9.6 at GS, 9.4 at metacritic, and tons of GOTY's.

btw this game is more hardcore in actual gameplay - no more backpedaling, timed blocking, less level scaling, and balanced spells this time.

I lol'd.

The only people who hate Oblivion seem to be on SW. Oblivion may not have the best AI and the world may be bland at times, but it's a blast to play and the fun greatly outweighs any nitpicking that people can find. I mean criticslove it, regular gamers (inclduing those on GameSpot) love it, and it's sold good, I don't see what I'm missing, why does SW hate it so much..?

Why does SW hate every game? I love the word "overated". It's so awesome.

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ChubbyGuy40

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#54 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

I lol'd.

The only people who hate Oblivion seem to be on SW. Oblivion may not have the best AI and the world may be bland at times, but it's a blast to play and the fun greatly outweighs any nitpicking that people can find. I mean criticslove it, regular gamers (inclduing those on GameSpot) love it, and it's sold good, I don't see what I'm missing, why does SW hate it so much..?

StealthMonkey4

Because Oblivion is horribly broken and the only people who don't realize that are people who haven't played it modded on PC. World "may be bland at times?" Unless you like badly detailed SpeedTree forrests and the same dungeon over and over, then it was VERY bland.

I love it when people use the term nitpicking as if they're trying to find the smallest detail. I didn't know nitpicking meant pointing out the obvious that keeps getting slapped in your face.

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BigDaddyPOLO

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#55 BigDaddyPOLO
Member since 2005 • 2251 Posts

[QUOTE="TailBlood"]

[QUOTE="BigDaddyPOLO"]

Yeah it's really hard to make a game that's actually really really boring and only appeals to a small group of people.

Lucianu

:lol: I was going to make a similar reply, but you nailed it.

without much needed mods, is beyond me.

Ok I can say the same thing about any popular multiplayer shooter such as Battlefield or CSS, they need mods. Also that's silly I've played RPGs for over a decade now and I've played plenty of classics, the things that made those games good are still in RPG's today, and if you don't agree go back to playing those.

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moose_knuckler

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#56 moose_knuckler
Member since 2007 • 5722 Posts
94% on metacritic (for PC/360), not 95%.
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BigDaddyPOLO

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#57 BigDaddyPOLO
Member since 2005 • 2251 Posts

Oblivion was bad, Fallout 3 was also bad. Skyrim looks to be the worst of the bunch however.

Ultima 7... yeah, I miss that game. Gothic series had superior AI to both Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Maroxad

Perfect example, if you can't get over your nostalgia go an play those games, meanwhile the developers can move the genre in any direction they want, and so far it's been incredibly successful. Seriously the only place worse than in this thread is NMA.

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TailBlood

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#58 TailBlood
Member since 2011 • 944 Posts

94% on metacritic (for PC/360), not 95%.moose_knuckler
Jesus. 1% off! How could I have missed it?

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trollop_scat

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#59 trollop_scat
Member since 2006 • 2656 Posts

Bethesda games score high because reviewers havent figured out a way to rate fun-factor. Bethesda games are boring, period. No way to sugar coat it.

Dark Souls will be 100 times more fun and exciting than Skyrim but Skyrim will still win GotY. That's just how it goes for some reason...

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TailBlood

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#60 TailBlood
Member since 2011 • 944 Posts

Bethesda games score high because reviewers havent figured out a way to rate fun-factor. Bethesda games are boring, period. No way to sugar coat it.

Dark Souls will be 100 times more fun and exciting than Skyrim but Skyrim will still win GotY. That's just how it goes for some reason...

trollop_scat

Oblivion was hella fun to most gamers, that aren't looking for deep games. :|

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Mograine

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#61 Mograine
Member since 2006 • 3666 Posts

I lol'd.

The only people who hate Oblivion seem to be on SW. Oblivion may not have the best AI and the world may be bland at times, but it's a blast to play and the fun greatly outweighs any nitpicking that people can find. I mean criticslove it, regular gamers (inclduing those on GameSpot) love it, and it's sold good, I don't see what I'm missing, why does SW hate it so much..?

StealthMonkey4

Critics and regular gamers with no experience of RPGs whatsoever.

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Barbariser

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#62 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

Oblivion is a pretty awful game, sure, but it still got a ****-tonne of awards throughout the entire reviewing network. If people didn't manage to see that game for what it is, why should I expect the critics to keep their brains turned on when reviewing Skyrim? I shouldn't, so of course what I will have to anticipate is that this game also gets a ****-tonne of GOTY awards at various websites. But here's the thing: the fact that I'm expecting Skyrim to win GOTY awards doesn't mean that I would agree with the critics.

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NaveedLife

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#63 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

First of all, I do not think Skyrim will be GOTY. It is a contender, but I doubt it will win, especially my vote.

BUT I do think it will be a lot better than OBlivion for a number of reasons, most of which you didnt even talk about. One of the biggest reasons though, is that it CLEARLY is just way more appealing. The environments and the variety of them were just not that great in Oblivion. This already looks miles better in SKyrim. Another good reason is that they are not using the broken skill system of Oblivion. IMO everything about Skyrim is appearing to be much better than Oblivion, BUT I still think there will be bugs, among other gameplay issues that make it an awesome title, yet not worthy of GOTY.

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Maroxad

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#64 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25387 Posts

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Oblivion was bad, Fallout 3 was also bad. Skyrim looks to be the worst of the bunch however.

Ultima 7... yeah, I miss that game. Gothic series had superior AI to both Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and Fallout 3.

BigDaddyPOLO

Perfect example, if you can't get over your nostalgia go an play those games, meanwhile the developers can move the genre in any direction they want, and so far it's been incredibly successful. Seriously the only place worse than in this thread is NMA.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I only got into the Gothic Series until very recently thanks to Lucianu. And as for Ultima 7, I first played it a year ago, so it is hardly nostalgia.

It is funny and sad at the same time how these games despite being soo much older, offer significantly superior AI to modern Bethesda games.

I hated Oblivion because it was flawed in so many ways making it unplayable, I hated Fallout 3 for the same reasons. New Vegas was good however.

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drinkerofjuice

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#65 drinkerofjuice
Member since 2007 • 4567 Posts

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

I lol'd.

The only people who hate Oblivion seem to be on SW. Oblivion may not have the best AI and the world may be bland at times, but it's a blast to play and the fun greatly outweighs any nitpicking that people can find. I mean criticslove it, regular gamers (inclduing those on GameSpot) love it, and it's sold good, I don't see what I'm missing, why does SW hate it so much..?

Mograine

Critics and regular gamers with no experience of RPGs whatsoever.

Don't say things that you know aren't true.
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The_Pacific

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#66 The_Pacific
Member since 2011 • 1804 Posts
I loved oblivion. The elder scrolls crowd hated it because it did'nt have the depth they were accustomed to.
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Lost-Memory

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#67 Lost-Memory
Member since 2009 • 1556 Posts
You really know how to grind my gears man... Your other thread that i called useless and now this ? xD Anyways. I like how you say Skyrim BARELY looks better than Oblivion. Funny. I didn't realise it was November 2011 already.... Just because some of the RPG aspects are simplified DOESN'T mean that the whole game is the same way. They've really worked on the way people come up to you and how the game plays out. As well as their claim that no 2 dungeons/ caves will look the same AND the different areas that we'll end up saying. The combat looks WAY BETTER than oblivion, IT finally gives you the options that we should have had throughout the whole series. Once again man, How about you do some research before posting. And, take into account that the game isn't even out yet. You can't fully judge a games visuals through a few mere screenshots....
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Mograine

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#68 Mograine
Member since 2006 • 3666 Posts

Don't say things that you know aren't true.drinkerofjuice

Believe what you want. Those people don't know anything about RPGs, period. No wonder the RPG genre this gen is so blurred out, people slaps the label everywhere with no criteria whatsoever.

Oblivion has a tedious combat system, 5 dungeons and 5 enemy types copypasted all over the place, a pathetic story, empty characters, a unnecessarily repetitive skill system, one of the most broken levelling systems I've ever seen, and completely lacks any reason to explore the world.

How it got past 6 is a question that made me lose every shred of trust in reviewers.

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shakmaster13

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#69 shakmaster13
Member since 2007 • 7138 Posts
Because people hate on it just to hate on it, and despite what many on this forum would have you think, Oblivion is a much better game than Morrowind.
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Mozelleple112

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#70 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

Because they've been drinking the Kool-Aid Bethesda is handing out.

The fact that the studio hasn't developed a good game since Morrowind is beside the point. It's all about hype.

DarkLink77
I'm sure those 40-50 GOTY awards and AAA scores are all wrong then :roll:
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shakmaster13

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#71 shakmaster13
Member since 2007 • 7138 Posts

[QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]Don't say things that you know aren't true.Mograine

Believe what you want. Those people don't know anything about RPGs, period. No wonder the RPG genre this gen is so blurred out, people slaps the label everywhere with no criteria whatsoever.

Oblivion has a tedious combat system, 5 dungeons and 5 enemy types copypasted all over the place, a pathetic story, empty characters, a unnecessarily repetitive skill system, one of the most broken levelling systems I've ever seen, and completely lacks any reason to explore the world.

How it got past 6 is a question that made me lose every shred of trust in reviewers.

Just because it doesn't have all the useless stats and dicerolls that you would expect from a pen and paper RPG, it doesn't make it any less of a Role Playing Game. Hell, the only reason D&D and the like had the systems that they did was out of necessity because of constraints put in to place by the pen and paper system.
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Mograine

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#72 Mograine
Member since 2006 • 3666 Posts

Just because it doesn't have all the useless stats and dicerolls that you would expect from a pen and paper RPG, it doesn't make it any less of a Role Playing Game. Hell, the only reason D&D and the like had the systems that they did was out of necessity because of constraints put in to place by the pen and paper system.shakmaster13

Umm no. Utterly, completely wrong.

An RPG is not defined by dice rolls. Goes to prove my previous point :roll: ...

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DarkLink77

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#73 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Because they've been drinking the Kool-Aid Bethesda is handing out.

The fact that the studio hasn't developed a good game since Morrowind is beside the point. It's all about hype.

Mozelleple112
I'm sure those 40-50 GOTY awards and AAA scores are all wrong then.

Pretty much. No other reason for it, really.
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shakmaster13

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#74 shakmaster13
Member since 2007 • 7138 Posts

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"] Just because it doesn't have all the useless stats and dicerolls that you would expect from a pen and paper RPG, it doesn't make it any less of a Role Playing Game. Hell, the only reason D&D and the like had the systems that they did was out of necessity because of constraints put in to place by the pen and paper system.Mograine

Umm no. Utterly, completely wrong.

An RPG is not defined by dice rolls. Goes to prove my previous point :roll: ...

Kind of curious as to how this proves your previous point...How is the combat in Oblivion broken compared to RPG's in 2006? It's not great like Mass Effect 2, but it certainly isn't something disastrous like The Witcher in that regard. Also, the skill system is not repetitive at all. The more you use a skill, the more proficient you become with it. That's how a Role Playing Game should play. I consider the main story as average, but nothing as horrible as you make it seem to be. If anything, the guild quests and the Shivering Isles questline or the Knights of the Nine questline should make up for it. However, I do agree that there was a huge lack of variation in the environment and most of the characters weren't fleshed out. But then again there are really fleshed out characters too such as Sheogorath.
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Maroxad

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#75 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25387 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Because they've been drinking the Kool-Aid Bethesda is handing out.

The fact that the studio hasn't developed a good game since Morrowind is beside the point. It's all about hype.

Mozelleple112

I'm sure those 40-50 GOTY awards and AAA scores are all wrong then :roll:

Opinions cant be wrong. But I am still baffled how Oblivion and Fallout 3 scored so well when they serve as pretty much manuals on how to not make an RPG. There is only one review I agree with when it comes to those godawful games. I can list 20 flaws for Oblivion. And 20 flaws for Fallout 3.

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Maroxad

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#76 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25387 Posts

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"] Just because it doesn't have all the useless stats and dicerolls that you would expect from a pen and paper RPG, it doesn't make it any less of a Role Playing Game. Hell, the only reason D&D and the like had the systems that they did was out of necessity because of constraints put in to place by the pen and paper system.shakmaster13

Umm no. Utterly, completely wrong.

An RPG is not defined by dice rolls. Goes to prove my previous point :roll: ...

Kind of curious as to how this proves your previous point...How is the combat in Oblivion broken compared to RPG's in 2006? It's not great like Mass Effect 2, but it certainly isn't something disastrous like The Witcher in that regard. Also, the skill system is not repetitive at all. The more you use a skill, the more proficient you become with it. That's how a Role Playing Game should play. I consider the main story as average, but nothing as horrible as you make it seem to be. If anything, the guild quests and the Shivering Isles questline or the Knights of the Nine questline should make up for it. However, I do agree that there was a huge lack of variation in the environment and most of the characters weren't fleshed out. But then again there are really fleshed out characters too such as Sheogorath.

Gothic series, Mount and Blade Beta, Kingdom Hearts, Diablo are just some of the many Action RPGs that have much better combat than Oblivion did released before or during 2006.

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shakmaster13

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#77 shakmaster13
Member since 2007 • 7138 Posts

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="Mograine"]

Umm no. Utterly, completely wrong.

An RPG is not defined by dice rolls. Goes to prove my previous point :roll: ...

Maroxad

Kind of curious as to how this proves your previous point...How is the combat in Oblivion broken compared to RPG's in 2006? It's not great like Mass Effect 2, but it certainly isn't something disastrous like The Witcher in that regard. Also, the skill system is not repetitive at all. The more you use a skill, the more proficient you become with it. That's how a Role Playing Game should play. I consider the main story as average, but nothing as horrible as you make it seem to be. If anything, the guild quests and the Shivering Isles questline or the Knights of the Nine questline should make up for it. However, I do agree that there was a huge lack of variation in the environment and most of the characters weren't fleshed out. But then again there are really fleshed out characters too such as Sheogorath.

Gothic series, Mount and Blade Beta, Kingdom Hearts, Diablo are just some of the many Action RPGs that have much better combat than Oblivion did released before or during 2006.

Gothic games did have good combat systems, but were unfortunately plagued with too many bugs(looking at you Gothic 3). Mount and Blade probably has the best combat system of any medieval style game IMO, but it did not release in 2006. Diablo is just a huge clickfest, although the game is somewhat top-down and lacks any depth to anything whatsoever except for skill trees and phat loot. Oblivion was one of if not the first RPG that had a decent story, good gameplay, good depth to character, and a good combat system. Although it too was plagued by bugs and its horrible engine, it managed to overcome them unlike the Gothic games up to and including Gothic 3. Mount and Blade and Diablo games just play too differently from Oblivion to compare them so I won't attempt to say that either is better than the other. However, I disagree with the notion that Kingdom Hearts had better combat than Oblivion.
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Mograine

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#78 Mograine
Member since 2006 • 3666 Posts

Kind of curious as to how this proves your previous point...How is the combat in Oblivion broken compared to RPG's in 2006? It's not great like Mass Effect 2, but it certainly isn't something disastrous like The Witcher in that regard. Also, the skill system is not repetitive at all. The more you use a skill, the more proficient you become with it. That's how a Role Playing Game should play. I consider the main story as average, but nothing as horrible as you make it seem to be. If anything, the guild quests and the Shivering Isles questline or the Knights of the Nine questline should make up for it. However, I do agree that there was a huge lack of variation in the environment and most of the characters weren't fleshed out. But then again there are really fleshed out characters too such as Sheogorath.shakmaster13

Oblivion's combat:

Keep block button clicked

Wait for opponent to strike and expose himself by recoil

Hit him 3 times

Repeat or cast a spell if he blocks instead of slashing you again.

Grats, you've just beaten Mannimarco, Bellamont, the World Breaker and Mehrunes Dagon.

The skill system is not repetitive at all? You've got to be ****ing trolling me. I just CANNOT believe somebody could ever say this. It goes against any kind of rationale.

How do you explain being able to be a master of 14 skills out of 21 at level 1? What's the reasoning behind the health-endurance system? What's the point of exploring the hundreds of dungeons if I can just walk outside of the Imperial City and kill a bandit in shining, top tier level armor and with an enchanted daedric weapon?

Heck, what is the point of levelling at all if monsters become stronger as you do?

What about being a master archmage with every magic skill stuck at level 5 (unlikely, but possible)?

Sheogorath "really fleshed out"? SHEOGORATH :| ?

"That's how RPGs should play" yeah...do you at least know what does the RPG acronym stand for?

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HaloPimp978

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#79 HaloPimp978
Member since 2005 • 7329 Posts

Never played Elder Scroll's game so Skyrim will be my first and I think it looks excellent.

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pl4yer_f0und

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#80 pl4yer_f0und
Member since 2009 • 990 Posts
[QUOTE="TailBlood"]

I don't get it. If you hated oblivion, explain to my why you wont hate skyrim? Most of the things I hear are:

"Because it looks better (visually)"... k. Barely looks better.

"Because the combat is an improvement"... K. Watch the videos.

"They are making it into a bigger and deeper game"... K. Look at what Betheda has said. It's been dumbed down even further.

I just wonder. To those who thought oblivion was not good. They will say the same about Skyrim.

Oblivion was a monster when it launched. 95% in metacritic, and the game with the most ammount of GOTY awards that year. (More than Gears).

Yet, the community hated it (like every other game, when it becomes popular), due to being less "hardcore" than Morrowind.

Which puzzles me, because Skyrim is going to be less "hardcore" than oblivion. :?

Ummm.... It does look a lot better, I think you need to check ur eyes. combat does look better, it seems more heavy than oblivions floating combat. And its more tactical with its sword/spell combos and dragon shouts, rather than oblivions slash then backpedal, and repeat kind of combat Skyrim will be bigger and more diverse than oblivion. No more cut-and-paste dungeons and areas will have a distinct architectures more like morrowind. The RPG elements have gotten shallower, true, but the world itself will be deeper. I.E. areas will have a their own economy, radiant quests,and the A.I will be much improved. Gamers are so hard to please these days...
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Infinite_Access

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#81 Infinite_Access
Member since 2007 • 2483 Posts

Just came in to say... Bioware doesn't make RPG's anymore... just TPS and hack and slash games! :P

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TheShadowLord07

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#82 TheShadowLord07
Member since 2006 • 23083 Posts

[QUOTE="TailBlood"]

[QUOTE="BigDaddyPOLO"]

Yeah it's really hard to make a game that's actually really really boring and only appeals to a small group of people.

Lucianu

:lol: I was going to make a similar reply, but you nailed it.

Both of you should at least try to play one real RPG rather than following the (casual console shooter obsessed) crowd in assuming real RPGs are boring.

Oblivion is a action - adventure with horrible AI (infinitely inferior to that of Gothic 1, a game from 2001) and a copy pasted world, how you could enjoy such mediocrity, without much needed mods, is beyond me.

I agree.how they like a video game without any mods

/sarcasm

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dream431ca

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#83 dream431ca
Member since 2003 • 10165 Posts

DRAGONS!!! (I added nothing to the thread. I am sorry.)

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UCF_Knight

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#84 UCF_Knight
Member since 2010 • 6863 Posts

I can't help but chuckle at those that say Bethesda just flat out sucks, and those that actually enjoy their games without mods are basically consolephilic and delusional. And the superiority complex of "true RPG" fans is astounding, as always.

Anyways, I quite enjoyed Oblivion (on PC AND consoles, I know I couldn't believe it either) and I believe Skyrim will be an improvement. Visually, I think it looks more than just "barely" better looking. Combat will likely still be slightly awkward, but oh well.

The greatest improvements should come within the interaction the character has on the environment, and vice versa. Hell, just wandering around the huge world knowing you could be attacked by a dragon at any time is cool enough to be an improvement over Oblivion. Where the most exciting thing you saw while traversing the landscape was a deer. A doe, at that, so it didn't even matter if it was in season!

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DragonfireXZ95

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#85 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26716 Posts
I thought Oblivion sucked and I also have a feeling Skyrim might suck too. I'm not giving the game any hype until I actually play it and make a logical decision.
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Tresca_

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#87 Tresca_
Member since 2008 • 869 Posts

I thought Oblivion sucked and I also have a feeling Skyrim might suck too. I'm not giving the game any hype until I actually play it and make a logical decision.DragonfireXZ95

I agree, though Skyrim will likely turn out better than Oblivion even if it does suck.

Don't understand all the GOTY hype over it.

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Maroxad

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#89 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25387 Posts

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Gothic series, Mount and Blade Beta, Kingdom Hearts, Diablo are just some of the many Action RPGs that have much better combat than Oblivion did released before or during 2006.

shakmaster13

Gothic games did have good combat systems, but were unfortunately plagued with too many bugs(looking at you Gothic 3). Mount and Blade probably has the best combat system of any medieval style game IMO, but it did not release in 2006. Diablo is just a huge clickfest, although the game is somewhat top-down and lacks any depth to anything whatsoever except for skill trees and phat loot. Oblivion was one of if not the first RPG that had a decent story, good gameplay, good depth to character, and a good combat system. Although it too was plagued by bugs and its horrible engine, it managed to overcome them unlike the Gothic games up to and including Gothic 3. Mount and Blade and Diablo games just play too differently from Oblivion to compare them so I won't attempt to say that either is better than the other. However, I disagree with the notion that Kingdom Hearts had better combat than Oblivion.

Which is why I said Mount and Blade BETA. The Beta was out by the time Oblivion was released. I recall the Alpha even being available in 2005. Just like with Minecraft, the Alpha was available to anyone who bought the game during its alpha/beta stages for a low price.

Oblivion's Story could be summed up like this:

The Emperor has died, you must find his son. You find his son and some more unforgettable stuff happen. Oh and it involves some cult as well.
The gameplay was bad, it was a poor mans everything.
Characters were shallow and one dimentional
The Combat system could be described like this.

When I swung a weapon it didnt feel like it, enemies took ages to kill at higher levels thanks to a terribly balanced system, spells had no casting times, not to mention, spells themselves were quitet shallow, combat was too easy, the AI had no tactics whatsoever outside of charging, combat had no variety at all, there was no strategy involved, a helm would protect against a blow in the legs, oh and morrowind had a less abominable combat than Oblivion.

There have been plenty of games with good combat, gameplay, story and characters.

Fire Emblem Seisen no Keifu: A 3 dimentional villain, a storyline that spanned 2 generations and excellent tactical gameplay with huge maps.
Baldurs Gate Saga: Had excellent characters where it made sense for an evil character to fight the bad guy, the combat was the best part however with plenty of strategy.
KotoR: The combat wasnt as good as BG, but still pretty decent, the characters and story though are what made this very memorable.
Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together: Inspired by the Yugoslav wars with multiple branching storylines, Tactics Ogre tells a good story with some memorable characters, with evolutionary gameplay and combat.

Ultima 7 Has a better story, gameplay and characters than Oblivion but the combat is equally bad.

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Oil_Rope_Bombs

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#90 Oil_Rope_Bombs
Member since 2010 • 2667 Posts
It's definitely not going to be GotY. Dark Souls has a higher chance.
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Kickinurass

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#91 Kickinurass
Member since 2005 • 3357 Posts

I thought Oblivion haters were obviously against Bethesda against this point :P

I'm personally in a wierd position - I though Morrowind was a massive bore. As was Oblivion. Never played Daggerfall, but I enjoyed Fallout 3 the most out of what I played from Bethesda, and New Vegas (I know, I know. Obsidian dev that) even more.

I think I enjoy the setting more, but I'm excited for Skyrim too. Dragons, guys, bloody DRAGONS!

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Kickinurass

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#92 Kickinurass
Member since 2005 • 3357 Posts

oh and morrowind had a less abominable combat than Oblivion.

Maroxad

God no. Morrowind probably had the worst combat out of any game I've played this side of WoW. It's pretty much as bad as Oblivion, except replace the bit of satisfaction you get when you visually see a hit occur in Oblivion with the uncertainity of swinging a 2 foot blade at a target the size of barn door and somehow missing in Morrowind. Absolutely horrid - the only way anyone can say Morrowind's combat is good is if that person has never held a weapon before, let alone trained with one.

The fact I managed to make it about midway through the game before giving up on that blasted combat systems still surprises me. Any time I had to engage in combat was a complete break in immersion. Hell, Morrowind's combat is probably the main reason I prefer a stealthy characters in all Bethesda RPG's.

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kraken2109

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#93 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

Because the few things i'm not happy about will be fixed by mods very easily.

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110million

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#94 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts

I hate vanilla oblivion, mods fixed issues I had with it.

Skyrim has some series firsts, like what seems to be a proper 3rd person camera and NPCs that don't look ****ing terrible.

I'm sure I will have issues with things in the game as I had with Oblivion, like if the on-screen "now loading" or "you arrived at ______" can't be turned off, I'd like a mod to fix that.

Combat has also been terrible in every ES game ever, the things it was based off made no sense. Like in morrowind, if you attack a lot, all you gain when you level up a weapon is accuracy. I loved Daggerfall and Morrowind, but the series has had some huge flaws Skyrim seems to be repairing.

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190586385885857957282413308806

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#95 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

[QUOTE="TailBlood"]

Look at what Betheda has said. It's been dumbed down even further.

I've seen this thrown around a lot and so far no one can back it up with proof.

Besides Bethesda saying they're taking out RPG elements to make it more of a straight-forward action game?

I'd give you the article but I didn't save the link.

So far they said they are removing all of the attributes, 6 of which were redundant additions to skills or health/magicka/stamina and 3 skills, one which was redistributed, and another that everyone complained about anyways. Then they added roughly 180 perks that can be used to customize a character. so they took out 9 RPG stat effect items and added 180 stat effecting items. Basic math would tell me that's not dumbing down. Then the level scaling isn't as bad as Oblivion's, The dungeons are being handcrafted like they were in Morrowind, Radiant AI seems like a suped up version of random encounters in Fallout 3, more voice actors, branching paths in the guilds, improved animations...all of these things sound like improvements over Oblivion.
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#96 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
It's definitely not going to be GotY. Dark Souls has a higher chance.Oil_rope_bombs
Nothing in the history of gaming would lead most people to believe that. Demon Souls won as many GOTY's from websites as Dragon Age did that year and Oblivion won probably as much as both of those games combined. Dark Souls is a niche title, The Elder Scrolls is a blockbuster.
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Belwar555

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#97 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

I am someone that follows the Skyrim forums a lot, and I can tell you that the majority of fans (including Morrowind fans) like the overall direction of the series. Graphics do look better - the draw distance and detail, animation and spell effects have gotten a massive improvement. The combat is an improvement, but how can you judge it so much if it is a gameplay mechanic - you have to try it first. Oh, and you do realize that the game is not being dumbed down? Bethesda have given plenty of explanations to the fans for their design decisions (I could go into more detail if you want) and have said that they are not trying to appease the casual market, merely get more players from an already established genres (shooters or RTS, for example). The 'majority' that you talk about that hated Oblivion were simply a vocal minority - they raised valid points, but were not the general agreement. The reason people are excited about Skyrim when they hated Oblivion is either because Skyrim's depth is hidden, so new players that were originally put of have an easier time getting in, while those who have been with the series longer understand Bethesda's decisions and are won over by the many improvements, such as no more level scaling and a unique, alien world. But honestly, the former group is much larger.

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ZombieKiller7

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#98 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts
Obliv was pretty good. Leveling system was stupid. Also not having any friends in the game was weak. But everything else about the game was 10/10 imo.
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Maroxad

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#99 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25387 Posts

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

oh and morrowind had a less abominable combat than Oblivion.

Kickinurass

God no. Morrowind probably had the worst combat out of any game I've played this side of WoW. It's pretty much as bad as Oblivion, except replace the bit of satisfaction you get when you visually see a hit occur in Oblivion with the uncertainity of swinging a 2 foot blade at a target the size of barn door and somehow missing in Morrowind. Absolutely horrid - the only way anyone can say Morrowind's combat is good is if that person has never held a weapon before, let alone trained with one.

The fact I managed to make it about midway through the game before giving up on that blasted combat systems still surprises me. Any time I had to engage in combat was a complete break in immersion. Hell, Morrowind's combat is probably the main reason I prefer a stealthy characters in all Bethesda RPG's.

I disagree, missing wasnt a problem for me unless I thought way stronger enemies than me (I picked the warrior sign).

But in morrowind I never had the problem of enemies having mroe health than bosses in some games. When it took my archer 60 shots or so to kill something unmodded, you know the combat system was flawed. But let me go into detail why I prefer Morrowind's slightly less awful combat over Oblivion's awful combat.

  1. In Oblivion you have a universal armor, this means that when you get hit a helm will protect you against a hit in the legs. In morrowind that wasnt the case.
  2. In Oblivion you could cast spells without fail, even in full plate mail. In morrowind your spells are likely to fail if you cast spells in full plate mail.
  3. Since the hit rating was there that meant there were also spells affecting hit and evade chances.
  4. To compensate for the fact that you could no longer miss, enemies were a lot more durable.
  5. Since you could no longer miss, that means the only difference between a level 1 swordsman and a level 100 swordsman was that the level 100 swordsman did more damage.
  6. Even at lvl 5 archery, you shot with pinpoint accuracy.

As for your point about dragons in your other post. I am sick and tired of dragons, I want them to stop being used for a while. They are getting redicilously overused.

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Laharl5

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#100 Laharl5
Member since 2008 • 405 Posts

Skyrim looks horrible game and it will suck just like oblivion did

Zurrur

This. But mine will be with all CAPS.