Why do people think that Nintendo abandoned their fanbase in favor of casuals?

1. Super Smash Brother's Melee
2. Luigi's Mansion
3. Wave Race
4. Pikman
5. Super Mario Sunshine
6. Animal Crossing
7. Metroid Prime
8. Mario Party 4

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Zelda Twilight Princess
2. Wario Ware
3. Wii Sports
4. Excite Truck
5. Super Paper Mario
6. Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
7. Mario Strikers Charged
8. Big Brain Acedemy Wii Degree
9. Mario Party 8
10. Fire Emblem Radient Dawn
11. Super Mario Galaxy
12. Battallion Wars

I am not understanding what people are saying that Nintendo has abandoned their own core Nintendo fanbase because they seem to be giving them more then what they had at the beginign of the Gamecube's life cycle. Sure they are catoring to the casual fanbase and non gamer crowd but they are still taking care of their own. Granted Super Smash Brothers Brawl was delayed they still have more Nintendo Audience Targeted games out then the Gamecube had at this time. So where is this Nintendo has abandoned its fanbase come from?

I think the fact that they also shifted atention to casuals/non-gamers more than ms and sony gave people the impression that they are shafting their core audience. I was never a hardocre nintendo player but I don't think I'd feel "abandoned" if I was one.

That said, I dislike the wii the most out of the 3 current gen systems.

Wii Sports and Wii Play sell more than all those games combined, thus proof Nintendo doesn't care for it's fanbase.

...

... Yeah I didn't mean that, but I remember hearing it once... so it made no sense to me either. I don't feel abandon, just it took a while for Nintendo to get these games out. However I will be greatful for sure, that I promise you. :D

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendo will always pump out their franchises, but they just don't seem to going in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendop will always pump out their franchises, butthey just don't seem togoing in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Nike_Air

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendop will always pump out their franchises, butthey just don't seem togoing in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Nike_Air

they actually seem to be going in the direction most ppl want (thus sales) just not enough of what the so called "core" want. of course i also don't think many would have been happy till it's only games they want and the industry collapses.

I think the fact that they also shifted atention to casuals/non-gamers more than ms and sony gave people the impression that they are shafting their core audience. I was never a hardocre nintendo player but I don't think I'd feel "abandoned" if I was one.

That said, I dislike the wii the most out of the 3 current gen systems.

astiop

You have most of it. Nintendo is just appealing to casuals more than the other consoles, but its not like their attention is tottally on them, or else all Wii games would be like Wii sports (which they're not). I dont really feel abandoned if it is true anyway.

first of all i playmy wii as much as i play ps3 and xbox 360

but some people get that vibe because theychoose talk about wiifit then ssb and Mario galaxy.

I think the abandoning arguement is made mostly by people who prefer the realism and mature content available on the 360 and PS3. The people who are still honestly interested in what Nintendo has to offer are being pleased even with the appeal being broadened.

The people who bought another console either are new to gaming or switched over because the games they want to play aren't be released on that platform. As they got older, they wanted more aliens and guns and chainsaws and bloody and realism...and thats not Nintendo's bag. Since Nintendo didn't move to offer these types of titles, there is a divergence and the gamers feel that since they "haven't changed" that Nintendo must have!

The other people who feel let down by Nintendo, are more or less growing out of gaming all together. Once in a blue moon something comes along, but life comes first and videogaming goes by the wayside. Nintendo isn't to blame for that either.

Finally, there are the people who require equilibrium and standards and everything to be more or less the same. These people feel abandoned because Nintendo is causing havic in their world!

It all boils down the people. Nintendo is in no way to blame for this stuff!

[QUOTE="Nike_Air"]

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendop will always pump out their franchises, butthey just don't seem togoing in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Ontain

they actually seem to be going in the direction most ppl want (thus sales) just not enough of what the so called "core" want. of course i also don't think many would have been happy till it's only games they want and the industry collapses.

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

Blackbond

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

Because every other game besides you listed is garbage teenage girl/grandparent games. I'm not even going to bother naming them.

Now i'm not saying its a legit reason, but its easy to see why people think that when the number of those games overwhelm the number of the "hardcore" titles.

Well, nintendo is an all game company. They NEED sales. If the wii had flopped then they would be in the red. No other branches to support them. Mythbuster4ever

No, they wouldn't. They made money off the Gamecube even though it had horrible sales. They'd just make a lot less money than they were right now if the Wii flopped, but they would still be making money.

Anyway, if you take away the casual games off the lists, there are 8 "hardcore" games on the Wii, and 7 on the Gamecube. Thus proving that Nintendo isn't abandoning their fanbase.

Because every other game besides you listed is garbage teenage girl/grandparent games. I'm not even going to bother naming them.

Now i'm not saying its a legit reason, but its easy to see why people think that when the number of those games overwhelm the number of the "hardcore" titles.

-NYBoricua-

So 4 casual games overwhelms 8 hardcore games?

Someone needs to go back to second grade.

I think the abandoning arguement is made mostly by people who prefer the realism and mature content available on the 360 and PS3. The people who are still honestly interested in what Nintendo has to offer are being pleased even with the appeal being broadened.

The people who bought another console either are new to gaming or switched over because the games they want to play aren't be released on that platform. As they got older, they wanted more aliens and guns and chainsaws and bloody and realism...and thats not Nintendo's bag. Since Nintendo didn't move to offer these types of titles, there is a divergence and the gamers feel that since they "haven't changed" that Nintendo must have!

The other people who feel let down by Nintendo, are more or less growing out of gaming all together. Once in a blue moon something comes along, but life comes first and videogaming goes by the wayside. Nintendo isn't to blame for that either.

Finally, there are the people who require equilibrium and standards and everything to be more or less the same. These people feel abandoned because Nintendo is causing havic in their world!

It all boils down the people. Nintendo is in no way to blame for this stuff!

effthat

Good post, except that a big part of people's problem with nintendo is that they are dumbing down their games, to make them less skill-based. You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

sonicmj1

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

Well, he missed Disaster:Day of Crisis, a new Nintendo IP, and Miyamoto is supposedly making a new IP.

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

sonicmj1

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

I didn't include Eternal Darkness because that is a Silicon Knights game. I'm only including Nintendo Games as in games for the Nintendo audience. Games like Metroid are included because it is a Nintendo Franchise.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="Nike_Air"]

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendop will always pump out their franchises, butthey just don't seem togoing in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Nike_Air

they actually seem to be going in the direction most ppl want (thus sales) just not enough of what the so called "core" want. of course i also don't think many would have been happy till it's only games they want and the industry collapses.

if they try to do both they risk stretching their developers too far. it's not just a money issue. The reason why i see nintendo concentrating on non gamer and casual gamer software for the new IP's is that no one else will do it and do it right. 3rd party can barely get the run of the mill games right on the wii.

Nintendo was never hardcore. The only time they tried toughing upthere image was in the mid 90s right when they faced some serious competition from Sega. But once Sega collapsed under its own chaos Nintendo reverted back to its former self.

Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Donkey_Puncher

By "many old Nintendo fans" do you mean the 5 people on System Wars?

Abandoned is not the right word because Nintendo will always pump out their franchises, but they just don't seem to going in the direction people want them to. Just look at the new IPs in the second group.

Nike_Air

What about Disaster: Day of Crisis and the acquisition of Monolith Soft.

You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

osirisomeomi

1. Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
2. Trauma Center
3. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition

All say hello to your false statement.

[QUOTE="-NYBoricua-"]

Because every other game besides you listed is garbage teenage girl/grandparent games. I'm not even going to bother naming them.

Now i'm not saying its a legit reason, but its easy to see why people think that when the number of those games overwhelm the number of the "hardcore" titles.

sexy_chimp

So 4 casual games overwhelms 8 hardcore games?

Someone needs to go back to second grade.

I would not qualify a single title nintendo makes has hardcore.

I have not thought of Zelda as hardcore in 10 years, even though I still like Zelda, its just Zelda...again... and again.... now you move your controler around.... and its still zelda.

The biggest reason for me though is this.

Online gaming. I want to play games online and yes that includes online fps. Most "hardcore" gamers do. Not all for sure but a lot. Nintendo as totally ignored online games as though they dont exist.

Sure they are puting some of the new titles online like SSB. But SSB, while I am sure its awsome game for fans, is not what I am looking for in terms of good online gaming.

Also, the power if the Wii is a dissapointment.

This generation, even next generation hardware, will not be enouph to produce the types of games I dream about.

Nintendo and I have a differant idea of whats important to gameplay. They created a cheap motion sensor to play the same old games the same old way. Push a button or flick your wrist, its still just zelda.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

Blackbond

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

I didn't include Eternal Darkness because that is a Silicon Knights game. I'm only including Nintendo Games as in games for the Nintendo audience. Games like Metroid are included because it is a Nintendo Franchise.

Why not include that Silicon Knights game, when Nintendo funded the development for the game? Nintendo felt with that title that it would be worth giving SK the money to create the title. It is because of them that Eternal Darkness was released on the Gamecube. Nintendo funding that game showed that they wanted games like it on their console. I haven't seen them do anything similar on the Wii.

The reason I included Metroid Prime (and Big Brain Academy) was because bringing a franchise to 3D is almost like creating it anew. There is risk involved, as one cannot be sure if the title will translate to the third dimension. It's a bit of a stretch, and if it makes you feel better, it could be removed and it wouldn't significantly impact my argument (though it would dent it a bit). Big Brain Academy would have to go too.

[QUOTE="osirisomeomi"]

You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

Blackbond

1. Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
2. Trauma Center
3. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition

All say hello to your false statement.

Agreed, he really cannot have played anything on the Wii beyond Wii Sports.

Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Donkey_Puncher

I only see that happening in SW where fakeboys and fanboys of other systems who claim they were "Former Nintendo fans" claim this. There has not been a huge outcry of Nintendo fans complaining about the Wii games. They've been getting the same they've gotten last gen at this time. Hell they are even getting a little more.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?sexy_chimp

By "many old Nintendo fans" do you mean the 5 people on System Wars?

You can go to hundreds of message boards across the internet that have people saying the same thing. Many old Nintendo fans feel slightly abandoned.

I forgave Nintendo for all of the GC's shortcomings, but some like myself don't like the direction Nintendo is going in. It's just that simple.

If people didn't feel abandoned, you wouldn't be hearing from them.

Why not include that Silicon Knights game, when Nintendo funded the development for the game? Nintendo felt with that title that it would be worth giving SK the money to create the title. It is because of them that Eternal Darkness was released on the Gamecube. Nintendo funding that game showed that they wanted games like it on their console. I haven't seen them do anything similar on the Wii.

The reason I included Metroid Prime (and Big Brain Academy) was because bringing a franchise to 3D is almost like creating it anew. There is risk involved, as one cannot be sure if the title will translate to the third dimension. It's a bit of a stretch, and if it makes you feel better, it could be removed and it wouldn't significantly impact my argument (though it would dent it a bit). Big Brain Academy would have to go too.

sonicmj1

I was really just focusing on Nintendo and what how they are taking care of the core Nintendo fanbase that's all. The point is to show that Nintendo hasn't abandoned their "CORE" audience.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Blackbond

I only see that happening in SW where fakeboys and fanboys of other systems who claim they were "Former Nintendo fans" claim this. There has not been a huge outcry of Nintendo fans complaining about the Wii games. They've been getting the same they've gotten last gen at this time. Hell they are even getting a little more.

All nintendo fans do is claim this every time someone on this forum says they are dissapointed with nintendo.

They are all just liars, here to piss you off, keep telling yourself that.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

sexy_chimp

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

Well, he missed Disaster:Day of Crisis, a new Nintendo IP, and Miyamoto is supposedly making a new IP.

It's a list of games coming out this holiday season. Disaster wouldn't be on it, just like how Brawl is excluded.

Miyamoto's IP could be anything. Wasn't his last new IP Nintendogs?

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Blackbond

I only see that happening in SW where fakeboys and fanboys of other systems who claim they were "Former Nintendo fans" claim this. There has not been a huge outcry of Nintendo fans complaining about the Wii games. They've been getting the same they've gotten last gen at this time. Hell they are even getting a little more.

If people didn't feel abandoned, you wouldn't be hearing from them. And of course, every time somebody says something about not liking Nintendo's direction, they get dismissed as a fakeboy/fanboy.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Donkey_Puncher

By "many old Nintendo fans" do you mean the 5 people on System Wars?

You can go to hundreds of message boards across the internet that have people saying the same thing. Many old Nintendo fans feel slightly abandoned.

I forgave Nintendo for all of the GC's shortcomings, but some like myself don't like the direction Nintendo is going in. It's just that simple.

If people didn't feel abandoned, you wouldn't be hearing from them.

100's of game message boards? Go ahead and link us to some. You don't have to do all of them but go ahead and show us some.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="-NYBoricua-"]

Because every other game besides you listed is garbage teenage girl/grandparent games. I'm not even going to bother naming them.

Now i'm not saying its a legit reason, but its easy to see why people think that when the number of those games overwhelm the number of the "hardcore" titles.

Coyo7e

So 4 casual games overwhelms 8 hardcore games?

Someone needs to go back to second grade.

I would not qualify a single title nintendo makes has hardcore.

I have not thought of Zelda as hardcore in 10 years, even though I still like Zelda, its just Zelda...again... and again.... now you move your controler around.... and its still zelda.

The biggest reason for me though is this.

Online gaming. I want to play games online and yes that includes online fps. Most "hardcore" gamers do. Not all for sure but a lot. Nintendo as totally ignored online games as though they dont exist.

Sure they are puting some of the new titles online like SSB. But SSB, while I am sure its awsome game for fans, is not what I am looking for in terms of good online gaming.

Also, the power if the Wii is a dissapointment.

This generation, even next generation hardware, will not be enouph to produce the types of games I dream about.

Nintendo and I have a differant idea of whats important to gameplay. They created a cheap motion sensor to play the same old games the same old way. Push a button or flick your wrist, its still just zelda.

So your idea of a hardcore game is an online game with good graphics.

This is what is destroying gaming, not Nintendo.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Donkey_Puncher

By "many old Nintendo fans" do you mean the 5 people on System Wars?

You can go to hundreds of message boards across the internet that have people saying the same thing. Many old Nintendo fans feel slightly abandoned.

I forgave Nintendo for all of the GC's shortcomings, but some like myself don't like the direction Nintendo is going in. It's just that simple.

If people didn't feel abandoned, you wouldn't be hearing from them.

And some people think the 360 is horrible. Does that make it a worldwide consensus?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Coyo7e

I only see that happening in SW where fakeboys and fanboys of other systems who claim they were "Former Nintendo fans" claim this. There has not been a huge outcry of Nintendo fans complaining about the Wii games. They've been getting the same they've gotten last gen at this time. Hell they are even getting a little more.

All nintendo fans do is claim this every time someone on this forum says they are dissapointed with nintendo.

They are all just liars, here to piss you off, keep telling yourself that.

Who's lying? The Nintendo fan or the person who can't even see the facts in the games released showing Nintendo has put more effort into their core audience then last gen at this time?

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"]

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Donkey_Puncher

By "many old Nintendo fans" do you mean the 5 people on System Wars?

You can go to hundreds of message boards across the internet that have people saying the same thing. Many old Nintendo fans feel slightly abandoned.

I forgave Nintendo for all of the GC's shortcomings, but some like myself don't like the direction Nintendo is going in. It's just that simple.

If people didn't feel abandoned, you wouldn't be hearing from them.

I even see a lot of game publications and **** say the same types of things,

EGM even had a cover regarding the games on the wii in this light.

Nintendo fans will look to the high systems sales numbers and say you are a liar, but when "hardcore" games like MP 3 dont sell well on a large installed base, its about the games not the sales.

100's of game message boards? Go ahead and link us to some. You don't have to do all of them but go ahead and show us some.Blackbond

You can search for yourself, I'm not hear to change any minds, I merely voiced my opinion. And as a long time NINTENDO fan, I find it appauling that every time they're criticized they're branded fanboy's. If you post anywhere else, you'd realize Gamespot isn't that different than most other boards.

I'm proof enought that some Nintendo fans seem abandoned, as are the other supposed "Fanboys" in here saying the same thing. Call them fanboys if you want, but some people really feel that way.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]Because I'm one of them. The proof is in the large amounts of Nintendo fans across the globe sounding off. Don't you think it's a little odd that many old Nintendo fans are voiceing their opinion on the matter?Blackbond

I only see that happening in SW where fakeboys and fanboys of other systems who claim they were "Former Nintendo fans" claim this. There has not been a huge outcry of Nintendo fans complaining about the Wii games. They've been getting the same they've gotten last gen at this time. Hell they are even getting a little more.

All nintendo fans do is claim this every time someone on this forum says they are dissapointed with nintendo.

They are all just liars, here to piss you off, keep telling yourself that.

Who's lying? The Nintendo fan or the person who can't even see the facts in the games released showing Nintendo has put more effort into their core audience then last gen at this time?

Great statement. All those who cant see the "facts".

I thought theGC was a casual oriented machine as well. I grew up with Nintendo's around. One of the first games I ever really liked was Zelda.

But becouse I dont agree with nintendo fans now that nintendo is still a great game maker I must be a liar right?

Well sorry fanboys I dont think the wii is a great game machine.

And some people think the 360 is horrible. Does that make it a worldwide consensus?sexy_chimp

Red Herring, get back on track.

I would imagine it has something to do with the fact that they completely compromised their hardware for the sake of of casual gamers as well as their profit margins. Teufelhuhn

And what does targeting casual gamers as well as increasing their profit margins have to do with the fact that Nintendo is still taking care of their "Core" Nintendo fan audience better then at this time with the Gamecube?

I even see a lot of game publications and **** say the same types of things,

EGM even had a cover regarding the games on the wii in this light.

Nintendo fans will look to the high systems sales numbers and say you are a liar, but when "hardcore" games like MP 3 dont sell well on a large installed base, its about the games not the sales.

Coyo7e

what? MP3 isn't selling well? do you know what you're talking about?