Why do people think that Nintendo abandoned their fanbase in favor of casuals?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No Nintendo isn't exempt from Criticism but this criticism as I stated in the OP is unjustified. This has nothing to do Wii being a good or bad console but the fact remains to say that Nintendo has abandonded the "Core" Nintendo fan is a lie. They have done more with "Their" games at this point in time then they did for Gamecube at this point and time.Donkey_Puncher

How about them charging 250 dollars for hardware seen more than 5 years ago?

What about their severe lack of non-1st party games?

Yes because making an affordable console was terrible of Nintendo, and clearly 3rd party developers not supporting the console with good software is Nintendo's fault too.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No Nintendo isn't exempt from Criticism but this criticism as I stated in the OP is unjustified. This has nothing to do Wii being a good or bad console but the fact remains to say that Nintendo has abandonded the "Core" Nintendo fan is a lie. They have done more with "Their" games at this point in time then they did for Gamecube at this point and time.Donkey_Puncher

How about them charging 250 dollars for hardware seen more than 5 years ago?

What about their severe lack of greatnon-1st party games?

What the hell does that have to do with what "Nintendo" is doing for the "Core" Nintendo fan. You're going way off topic. Like I said this isn't about Nintendo being good ro bad its what games they are offering to the "Core" Nintendo fan. The price has nothing to do with the situation. Its not like they priced their "Core" Nintendo fans out of the console like Sony did with the PS3.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="osirisomeomi"]

Good post, except that a big part of people's problem with nintendo is that they are dumbing down their games, to make them less skill-based. You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

sexy_chimp

Never played Zelda or Metroid have you? Because Twilight Princess requries more skill with the bow and arrow, while Prime 3 has enabled straffing (REAL straffing) and new motions to master.

You are both correct and flawed at the same time.

Name a 3rd party game that lives up to those standards, without blurting out the port of RE 4.

Why the hell are we talking about 3rd party games?

This isn't about the Wii having the best or worst games, this is about Nintendo still supplying the Wii with good "hardcore" games.

Stop listing the same games over and over. Three or 4 games over the course of a year that appeal to "hardcore" gamers just is not enouph.

Good or bad I dont see many games at all, over the life of the GC and on the still young wii, that appeal to me as a gamer at all.

This is about nintendo fans calling everyone who says they are a gamer and also who does not like nintendo fake haters.

Yes because making an affordable console was terrible of Nintendo, and clearly 3rd party developers not supporting the console with good software is Nintendo's fault too. Oscar-Wilde

The Xbox 360 core costs 280 dollars, Please explain. Then explain how the Xbox 360 is still making a profit on each console sold.

Then look back at past Nintendo Gens...

SNES, i wasn't JUST playing Nintendo games.

N64, I wasn't JUST playing Nintendo games.

GC, I wasn't JUST playing Nintendo games. (worst out of these three though)

Wii, only great games ARE Nintendo 1sts party games. Only hyped games ARE Nintendo 1st party games.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No Nintendo isn't exempt from Criticism but this criticism as I stated in the OP is unjustified. This has nothing to do Wii being a good or bad console but the fact remains to say that Nintendo has abandonded the "Core" Nintendo fan is a lie. They have done more with "Their" games at this point in time then they did for Gamecube at this point and time.Blackbond

How about them charging 250 dollars for hardware seen more than 5 years ago?

What about their severe lack of greatnon-1st party games?

What the hell does that have to do with what "Nintendo" is doing for the "Core" Nintendo fan. You're going way off topic. Like I said this isn't about Nintendo being good ro bad its what games they are offering to the "Core" Nintendo fan. The price has nothing to do with the situation. Its not like they priced their "Core" Nintendo fans out of the console like Sony did with the PS3.

I generaly assume that most gamers are like me in that, this generations hardware (of witch nintendo is not a part) and even next gen hardware, probably wont have enouph power to create the kind of games I would really like to play.

The fact that they release outdated hardware alone is considered by some a let down.

The world is not a gaming paradise yet where power has become a moot point. More power still = the ability to create better games. By releasing outdated hardware nintendo automaticly negates a lot of possabilities in terms of gameplay.

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

It's not a laughing matter.

That game was casualized with less back tracking, multiple difficulty levels.

dracula_16

Obviously you haven't played it.

Why would I play something that I'm not interested in?I take Gamespot's word for it because they have saved me hundreds of dollars in the past. I have only disagreed with them once or twice.

Regardless of if you are interested or not its a great game that is AAA across the board as in world wide overall scores.

[QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="osirisomeomi"]

Good post, except that a big part of people's problem with nintendo is that they are dumbing down their games, to make them less skill-based. You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

Coyo7e

Never played Zelda or Metroid have you? Because Twilight Princess requries more skill with the bow and arrow, while Prime 3 has enabled straffing (REAL straffing) and new motions to master.

You are both correct and flawed at the same time.

Name a 3rd party game that lives up to those standards, without blurting out the port of RE 4.

Why the hell are we talking about 3rd party games?

This isn't about the Wii having the best or worst games, this is about Nintendo still supplying the Wii with good "hardcore" games.

Stop listing the same games over and over. Three or 4 games over the course of a year that appeal to "hardcore" gamers just is not enouph.

Good or bad I dont see many games at all, over the life of the GC and on the still young wii, that appeal to me as a gamer at all.

This is about nintendo fans calling everyone who says they are a gamer and also who does not like nintendo fake haters.

This is about Nintendo fans that are calling people who don't like Nintendo fake haters? Where have you been lately? This is about proving people claiming to be former hardcore Nintendo fans, saying that Nintendo is abandoning them wrong.

What the hell does that have to do with what "Nintendo" is doing for the "Core" Nintendo fan. You're going way off topic. Like I said this isn't about Nintendo being good ro bad its what games they are offering to the "Core" Nintendo fan. The price has nothing to do with the situation. Its not like they priced their "Core" Nintendo fans out of the console like Sony did with the PS3.Blackbond

Because there is more to Alienating Old Nintendo fans than just games. What if a long time Nintendo fan would have liked to see a Mario or Zelda with advanced physics and great graphics?

It's just not the game lineup that has some people worried, it's their direction with hardware and how they get away for charging 250 for 5 year old hardware.

I generaly assume that most gamers are like me in that, this generations hardware (of witch nintendo is not a part) and even next gen hardware, probably wont have enouph power to create the kind of games I would really like to play.

The fact that they release outdated hardware alone is considered by some a let down.

The world is not a gaming paradise yet where power has become a moot point. More power still = the ability to create better games. By releasing outdated hardware nintendo automaticly negates a lot of possabilities in terms of gameplay.

Coyo7e

You assumed wrong. Your points on Graphics are mute. Otherwise PS2 wouldn't have won and PC would be the spectacle of gaming. But like I said before your post has nothing to do with the games.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="sexy_chimp"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="osirisomeomi"]

Good post, except that a big part of people's problem with nintendo is that they are dumbing down their games, to make them less skill-based. You can look at the Wiimote, with its lack of crisp control, or at the difficulty levels which have been scaled down to appeal to non-gamers. that's a bid part of why Nintendo is getting such a bad rap. Nintendo hasn't really been going after its traditional demographic as much, so they feel cheated.

Technoweirdo

Never played Zelda or Metroid have you? Because Twilight Princess requries more skill with the bow and arrow, while Prime 3 has enabled straffing (REAL straffing) and new motions to master.

You are both correct and flawed at the same time.

Name a 3rd party game that lives up to those standards, without blurting out the port of RE 4.

Why the hell are we talking about 3rd party games?

This isn't about the Wii having the best or worst games, this is about Nintendo still supplying the Wii with good "hardcore" games.

Stop listing the same games over and over. Three or 4 games over the course of a year that appeal to "hardcore" gamers just is not enouph.

Good or bad I dont see many games at all, over the life of the GC and on the still young wii, that appeal to me as a gamer at all.

This is about nintendo fans calling everyone who says they are a gamer and also who does not like nintendo fake haters.

This is about Nintendo fans that are calling people who don't like Nintendo fake haters? Where have you been lately? This is about proving people claiming to be former hardcore Nintendo fans, saying that Nintendo is abandoning them wrong.

Well I had always thought of nintendo fans as gamers with a loyalty to gaming first and foremost. Not one console maker or game maker.

But thats changed I guess. Nintendo fans are just that then, nintendo fans, and not gamers.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

What the hell does that have to do with what "Nintendo" is doing for the "Core" Nintendo fan. You're going way off topic. Like I said this isn't about Nintendo being good ro bad its what games they are offering to the "Core" Nintendo fan. The price has nothing to do with the situation. Its not like they priced their "Core" Nintendo fans out of the console like Sony did with the PS3.Donkey_Puncher

Because there is more to Alienating Old Nintendo fans than just games. What if a long time Nintendo fan would have liked to see a Mario or Zelda with advanced physics and great graphics?

It's just not the game lineup that has some people worried, it's their direction with hardware and how they get away for charging 250 for 5 year old hardware.

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

I generaly assume that most gamers are like me in that, this generations hardware (of witch nintendo is not a part) and even next gen hardware, probably wont have enouph power to create the kind of games I would really like to play.

The fact that they release outdated hardware alone is considered by some a let down.

The world is not a gaming paradise yet where power has become a moot point. More power still = the ability to create better games. By releasing outdated hardware nintendo automaticly negates a lot of possabilities in terms of gameplay.

Blackbond

You assumed wrong. Your points on Graphics are mute. Otherwise PS2 wouldn't have won and PC would be the spectacle of gaming. But like I said before your post has nothing to do with the games.

ALright thats says it all.

You must not have played many games.

Ever time I say more powerfull someone in this thread says better fx, witch I have never stated once.

If you believe all more power does is improve visuals, you need an education in gaming.

good lord I even just read my post over and I clearly stated more power as bieng able to produce superior gameplay.

You are really arrogant for someone who cant even read what someone posts.

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Blackbond

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

I generaly assume that most gamers are like me in that, this generations hardware (of witch nintendo is not a part) and even next gen hardware, probably wont have enouph power to create the kind of games I would really like to play.

The fact that they release outdated hardware alone is considered by some a let down.

The world is not a gaming paradise yet where power has become a moot point. More power still = the ability to create better games. By releasing outdated hardware nintendo automaticly negates a lot of possabilities in terms of gameplay.

Blackbond

You assumed wrong. Your points on Graphics are mute. Otherwise PS2 wouldn't have won and PC would be the spectacle of gaming. But like I said before your post has nothing to do with the games.

The PC DID win last gen. It's game lineup trumps the PS2's.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Donkey_Puncher

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Coyo7e

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

I wonder if they'd still feel the same if next gen, Nintendo didn't evolve it's hardware again.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No Nintendo isn't exempt from Criticism but this criticism as I stated in the OP is unjustified. This has nothing to do Wii being a good or bad console but the fact remains to say that Nintendo has abandonded the "Core" Nintendo fan is a lie. They have done more with "Their" games at this point in time then they did for Gamecube at this point and time.Oscar-Wilde

How about them charging 250 dollars for hardware seen more than 5 years ago?

What about their severe lack of non-1st party games?

Yes because making an affordable console was terrible of Nintendo, and clearly 3rd party developers not supporting the console with good software is Nintendo's fault too.

Nintendo could've easily made a near 360 power system at no loss for $250, just like the Gamecube was to Xbox. But they don't care about giving value to customers they just want to rip you all off with their gimmick. The Wii is a rip-off period and I consider it criminal how much they charge for this it.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

I generaly assume that most gamers are like me in that, this generations hardware (of witch nintendo is not a part) and even next gen hardware, probably wont have enouph power to create the kind of games I would really like to play.

The fact that they release outdated hardware alone is considered by some a let down.

The world is not a gaming paradise yet where power has become a moot point. More power still = the ability to create better games. By releasing outdated hardware nintendo automaticly negates a lot of possabilities in terms of gameplay.

Coyo7e

You assumed wrong. Your points on Graphics are mute. Otherwise PS2 wouldn't have won and PC would be the spectacle of gaming. But like I said before your post has nothing to do with the games.

ALright thats says it all.

You must not have played many games.

Ever time I say more powerfull someone in this thread says better fx, witch I have never stated once.

If you believe all more power does is improve visuals, you need an education in gaming.

good lord I even just read my post over and I clearly stated more power as bieng able to produce superior gameplay.

You are really arrogant for someone who cant even read what someone posts.

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

I think the probably lies in how many games (aka software)a hardcoreor gamer buysper year compare to a casual. I recall their was a article a few months back that say hardcore tends to buy the most games per year. Like hardcore pc gamer, they are willing to spend money and they spend a lot of money on games.

Anyway to answer your question. Because hardcore and gamer buy more often than casuals, Ninty needs to make more contents to satisfy them. If they don't make more hardcore games, then this group (of heavy spenders) will get bored quickly and look elsewhere. Casuals maybe buy like1 new game every 4-6 months.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Donkey_Puncher

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

I wonder if they'd still feel the same if next gen, Nintendo didn't evolve it's hardware again.

The OP would I guess.

Talk about annoying. I clearly stated that I want more power to improve gameplay and its like he didnt even see that.

All he read was "Better visuals = better games" and then even posts that as what I said while quoting me with the very quote that clearly states I want it for gameplay.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

My issue isn't with the holiday season's quantity of first party games (where Nintendo is delivering pretty impressively, and I couldn't ask much more of them), but with what they're doing with new IPs. I went back over your list, and here's what I found in terms of games that were either new IPs or new to 3D consoles.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Nintendo Games in Gamecube's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Pikmin
2. Animal Crossing
3. Metroid Prime
4. Eternal Darkness (which you didn't include, though it was published by Nintendo)

Nintendo Games in Wii's (2nd Holiday Season)

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck (though the argument could be made that it's a continuation of Excitebike 64)
3. Big Brain Academy Wii Degree

sexy_chimp

To me, that signifies a shift in the direction of where Nintendo is going.

I'm also concerned about what will come next. After the Gamecube had a relatively strong first year, 2003 was pretty dry in terms of games. While the most recent Nintendo conference helped, I'm still not certain about whether there will be a significant amount of games in 2008.

Well, he missed Disaster:Day of Crisis, a new Nintendo IP, and Miyamoto is supposedly making a new IP.

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

There is certainly a place for thingsl ike 2d fighters. ****c games.

But good lord 2d is never what I wanted.

Things like better physics and more enemies on screen have a profound impact on gameplay. Just play through HL 2. Physics and gameplay are two sides of the same coin.

This must be the disconect between us.

Not to mention things like advanced AI, interactive enviorments....

I mean come on. Do you think , lets say, a ww2 game with totally destructable enviorments would play the same as a game with static enviorments, or even apartially destructable world?

Things like that can change everything.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Coyo7e

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Coyo7e

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

I wonder if they'd still feel the same if next gen, Nintendo didn't evolve it's hardware again.

The OP would I guess.

Talk about annoying. I clearly stated that I want more power to improve gameplay and its like he didnt even see that.

All he read was "Better visuals = better games" and then even posts that as what I said while quoting me with the very quote that clearly states I want it for gameplay.

Hardware in this thread is irrelevant. Games offered by Nintendo is the meaning of the thread. You aren't a sheep you don't care for these Nintendo games so why bother?

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Donkey_Puncher

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

I wonder if they'd still feel the same if next gen, Nintendo didn't evolve it's hardware again.

Yeah cause I'm sure sheep were cyring when they got Game Boy Color over Game Boy and Game Boy Pocket :roll:

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

Coyo7e

There is certainly a place for thingsl ike 2d fighters. ****c games.

But good lord 2d is never what I wanted.

Things like better physics and more enemies on screen have a profound impact on gameplay. Just play through HL 2. Physics and gameplay are two sides of the same coin.

This must be the disconect between us.

Not to mention things like advanced AI, interactive enviorments....

I mean come on. Do you think , lets say, a ww2 game with totally destructable enviorments would play the same as a game with static enviorments, or even partially a destructable world?

Things like that can change everything.

You didn't get what I said did you?

Yes, Half-Life 2 (and while I'm at it, Portal) is an example of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well, but better visuals, more enemies on screen, and better physics do not directly translate to superior gameplay in all cases. It depends on the type of game.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Blackbond

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

wow you really dont get it do you.

You cant be for real. do you read any of the posts in your own thread?

I have already pointed out several cases where I think more power = better gameplay.

Your posts are not even worth reading anymore if you cant respond to what someone is actually saying, instead of puting your own words and thoughts in their mouths.

But ultimatly I think you are just ignorant as to how games work. You are making other wii owners look bad.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

Technoweirdo

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

There is certainly a place for thingsl ike 2d fighters. ****c games.

But good lord 2d is never what I wanted.

Things like better physics and more enemies on screen have a profound impact on gameplay. Just play through HL 2. Physics and gameplay are two sides of the same coin.

This must be the disconect between us.

Not to mention things like advanced AI, interactive enviorments....

I mean come on. Do you think , lets say, a ww2 game with totally destructable enviorments would play the same as a game with static enviorments, or even partially a destructable world?

Things like that can change everything.

You didn't get what I said did you?

Yes, Half-Life 2 (and while I'm at it, Portal) is an example of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well, but better visuals, more enemies on screen, and better physics do notdirectly translate to superior gameplay in all cases. It depends on the type of game.

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Blackbond

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

I wonder if they'd still feel the same if next gen, Nintendo didn't evolve it's hardware again.

The OP would I guess.

Talk about annoying. I clearly stated that I want more power to improve gameplay and its like he didnt even see that.

All he read was "Better visuals = better games" and then even posts that as what I said while quoting me with the very quote that clearly states I want it for gameplay.

Hardware in this thread is irrelevant. Games offered by Nintendo is the meaning of the thread. You aren't a sheep you don't care for these Nintendo games so why bother?

Hardware as a huge impact on the games it plays/

I do care for some of those nintendo games btw. I am not a sheep no, but I grew up with nintendo, I would like to see them be on the cutting edge of gameplay and games in general.

But nintendo has made it clear that they are content to release another generation of games with outdated gameplay.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Coyo7e

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

wow you really dont get it do you.

You cant be for real. do you read any of the posts in your own thread?

I have already pointed out several cases where I think more power = better gameplay.

Your posts are not even worth reading anymore if you cant respond to what someone is actually saying, instead of puting your own words and thoughts in their mouths.

But ultimatly I think you are just ignorant as to how games work. You are making other wii owners look bad.

Yeah I read what you said or did you not see me type "You think better visuals means better games" More power =/= better gameplay. I also previously stated why as to the PS2 being better then the GC and Xbox despite being weaker. Try again budddy. More power =/= better gameplay. Devs = Better gameplay.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

Hardware in this thread is irrelevant. Games offered by Nintendo is the meaning of the thread. You aren't a sheep you don't care for these Nintendo games so why bother?

Coyo7e

Hardware as a huge impact on the games it plays/

I do care for some of those nintendo games btw. I am not a sheep no, but I grew up with nintendo, I would like to see them be on the cutting edge of gameplay and games in general.

But nintendo has made it clear that they are content to release another generation of games with outdated gameplay.

since this thread is about nintendo abandoning it's fanbase or not, cutting edge isn't really irrelevant since that's always been the domain of the pc. ppl that got nintendo systems know they aren't getting the best hardware in gaming.

Hardware as a huge impact on the games it plays/

I do care for some of those nintendo games btw. I am not a sheep no, but I grew up with nintendo, I would like to see them be on the cutting edge of gameplay and games in general.

But nintendo has made it clear that they are content to release another generation of games with outdated gameplay.

Coyo7e

So then why are you rambling in this thread for? This thread is about the games Nintendo makes for "ITS CORE FANS" you obviously aren't part of that equation.

The wiimote and nunchuk retails for a combined price of $60 and they've included WiiSports. That doesn't include the twist on IR that makes up the triangulation and pointing, OR the energy efficient chips and boards that don't produce enough heat to fry an overwhelming amount of boards resulting in a 3 year warranty extension. Please don't imagine that the hardware used in the Wii is 5 year old trash they picked up from the xbox graveyard.

Do some research on the NES and you'll see that the Wii is following a lot of the same logic and principles that made the NES so popular. Superior controls (take MP3 or RE4 for a spin and see for yourself), family accessability, and great gameplay at a price that can easily fit into the budget.

It doesn't focus being the most powerful because it's hard to develop for and the firms that are working on the newest hardware are learning it all as they go! The Wii using more standard hardware means a cheap price point for the console and the games and the development meaning more games for the gamers.

The online is free integrated into the machine. They may have a few extra steps to take, but if they didn't they would be abandoning their family friendly principles. That would be abandoning what brought them success! They have opened the door for third parties to handle online within reasonable guidelines and still offer online play to strangers. They removed the annoyance of having a bunch of 13 years old yell "NOOB" and "PWN" in your ear the entire time. They let you take control of who you play with and who plays with you. They even encourage using their online in single player games with MP3 and outside of gaming with everybody votes and the messaging and pictures.

They are doing what they've always done well and what has brought them this far in gaming. They aren't in the hardware game and trying to compete on power in the console world eventually leads to being a PC that can't be upgraded or customized. They are doing what is best for console gaming by innovating on gameplay and focusing on hardware that developers can fully utilize. I wouldn't be happy with them next generation unless they were just above the PS3 specs. Otherwise you have them handing you untested hardware that devlopers aren't going to be able to do their best work with.

Almost all the best games come out near the end of a console's life cycle. Nintendo has extended the period when the developers know the hardware well enough to produce these great games.

Again, it's the "core" gamers that have moved on. Nintendo has kept it's principles and had enough guts to let them go. Nintendo hasn't abandoned anyone.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

No just no. Nintendo has always been Nintendo and they aren't going to change. If you don't like them you don't like them. But Nintendo isn't abandoning the "Core" Nintendo fan period and thats a fact. Stop talking about hardware this is games discussion as listed on the OP.Blackbond

The title of this thread says "abandoned their fanbase". Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe some may feel alienated by their lack of hardware? Whoa!!

The issue involves both games and hardware, my gripsaren't mutually exclusive to either of them, it encompasses both.

watch out.

The OP is under the impression that all more powerfull hardware does is improve visuals.

wow you really dont get it do you.

You cant be for real. do you read any of the posts in your own thread?

I have already pointed out several cases where I think more power = better gameplay.

Your posts are not even worth reading anymore if you cant respond to what someone is actually saying, instead of puting your own words and thoughts in their mouths.

But ultimatly I think you are just ignorant as to how games work. You are making other wii owners look bad.

Yeah I read what you said or did you not see me type "You think better visuals means better games" More power =/= better gameplay. I also previously stated why as to the PS2 being better then the GC and Xbox despite being weaker. Try again budddy. More power =/= better gameplay. Devs = Better gameplay.

Those dev's were using the power of the ps2 to its maximum to create great games.

Especially towards the end of its life.

But clearly you are a broken record.

If you havent played a game where you can tell the power of the system was used to craft superior gameplay... well you just havent gamed much outside of your narrow view of gaming.

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

Coyo7e

There is certainly a place for thingsl ike 2d fighters. ****c games.

But good lord 2d is never what I wanted.

Things like better physics and more enemies on screen have a profound impact on gameplay. Just play through HL 2. Physics and gameplay are two sides of the same coin.

This must be the disconect between us.

Not to mention things like advanced AI, interactive enviorments....

I mean come on. Do you think , lets say, a ww2 game with totally destructable enviorments would play the same as a game with static enviorments, or even partially a destructable world?

Things like that can change everything.

You didn't get what I said did you?

Yes, Half-Life 2 (and while I'm at it, Portal) is an example of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well, but better visuals, more enemies on screen, and better physics do not directly translate to superior gameplay in all cases. It depends on the type of game.

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Again, you didn't read my post well. If you'll take a look, I said that Half-Life 2 and Portal are examples of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well. It's just that not all types of games would benefit in terms of gameplay from more power. I didn't say that the physics in Half-Life 2 didn't directly translate into gameplay.

Off-topic: Are you manually quoting or are you having problems with quick-quotes? Your posts have broken quotes.

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

Hardware as a huge impact on the games it plays/

I do care for some of those nintendo games btw. I am not a sheep no, but I grew up with nintendo, I would like to see them be on the cutting edge of gameplay and games in general.

But nintendo has made it clear that they are content to release another generation of games with outdated gameplay.

Blackbond

So then why are you rambling in this thread for? This thread is about the games Nintendo makes for "ITS CORE FANS" you obviously aren't part of that equation.

Then why post this in system wars? I mean get real. Its system wars.

Take it to general forums or the wii forums.

And frankly I didnt really think there were such things as fanboys. I really though everyone came in here and a good time flaming each other but ultimatly it was all psts by gamers.

You are a true fanboy though. You are such a "core" nintendo fan I really dont think you have played enouph games (certainly not PC games) to have a quality opinion.

This is why I hate nintendo. There are a lot of real gamers that love their wii and could argue its pro's better then you. But just becouse you are a "core" nintendo fan does not make you a gamer.

You are the red headed step child of the gaming world get used to it.

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Coyo7e

HL2 has the best use of physics in an fps game that i've ever played. but it's also one of the fps's of modern days that has the lowest system requirements. even on the lowest settings the physics are the same. only the graphics are less. doesn't that hurt your argument?

Those dev's were using the power of the ps2 to its maximum to create great games.

Especially towards the end of its life.

But clearly you are a broken record.

If you havent played a game where you can tell the power of the system was used to craft superior gameplay... well you just havent gamed much outside of your narrow view of gaming.

Coyo7e

So your comparing one system at the end of its life cycle to the Wii at the very begining of its? Oh wow thats really fair of you. And it doesn't matter how well the devs used its power it was still inferior to that of the Xbox and GC.

My narrow view of gaming? My collection puts yours to shame do not speak foolishness again. Some of the best games ever created came out on hardware that wasn't the best for its time or era. What does that tell you?

• More Power =/= Better Game
• Talented Dev = Better Game

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Ontain

HL2 has the best use of physics in an fps game that i've ever played. but it's also one of the fps's of modern days that has the lowest system requirements. even on the lowest settings the physics are the same. only the graphics are less. doesn't that hurt your argument?

Not to mention the physics for the game don't change whether I have it on HIGH Settings or LOW Settings. Imagine that :shock:

[QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Technoweirdo"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"][QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

Superior gameplay isn't something I would say. Having more power would allow for more detailed visuals, more complicated physics, and more enemies on the screen among other things, but not superior gameplay since not all games would have improved gameplay from a larger power capacity. Take 2D fighters for instance. More power wouldn't help.

Technoweirdo

There is certainly a place for thingsl ike 2d fighters. ****c games.

But good lord 2d is never what I wanted.

Things like better physics and more enemies on screen have a profound impact on gameplay. Just play through HL 2. Physics and gameplay are two sides of the same coin.

This must be the disconect between us.

Not to mention things like advanced AI, interactive enviorments....

I mean come on. Do you think , lets say, a ww2 game with totally destructable enviorments would play the same as a game with static enviorments, or even partially a destructable world?

Things like that can change everything.

You didn't get what I said did you?

Yes, Half-Life 2 (and while I'm at it, Portal) is an example of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well, but better visuals, more enemies on screen, and better physics do not directly translate to superior gameplay in all cases. It depends on the type of game.

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Again, you didn't read my post well. If you'll take a look, I said that Half-Life 2 and Portal are examples of physics being incorporated into gameplay extremely well. It's just that not all types of games would benefit in terms of gameplay from more power. I didn't say that the physics in Half-Life 2 didn't directly translate into gameplay.

Off-topic: Are you manually quoting or are you having problems with quick-quotes? Your posts have broken quotes.

I have addressed your post you just dont like the responce.

but ultimatly I think we agree to a large extent.

No not all types of games would be made better. But by not having the power to do it you dont even get the titles that do.

I want classic type games. And I suppose with each year that passes certain types of games hit the cieling where no more power will help at all.

And one day power will be a totally moot point and will be all about craftsmanship. But I see that day as still being 10 years or more off.

Can there be great games ont he wii? yes there can, and there are, MP 3 kicks ass even though I have not had the chance to just sit down and lay down a 4 hour session solo (my freinds own wii's so I play it at their homes)

But I think if you are a fan of games first and nintendo second the lack of hardware power is a serious issue that has a whole lot more to do good games then good visuals.

Case in point. I am looking forward to an online survival horror called left 4 dead.

To be as good as I want it to be its going to need all the power it can get.

Solid net code for one. TONS of enemies on screen to make a group of 4 players feel threatened. Large open enviorments with a ton of interactivity.

I Hope I get online and with 3 other people we can run to a safe spot of our choosing and defend it using the enviorment.

Thats going to require next gen hardware.

P.S. not manually quoting I see the quotes as off as well.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Blackbond

HL2 has the best use of physics in an fps game that i've ever played. but it's also one of the fps's of modern days that has the lowest system requirements. even on the lowest settings the physics are the same. only the graphics are less. doesn't that hurt your argument?

Not to mention the physics for the game don't change whether I have it on HIGH Settings or LOW Settings. Imagine that :shock:

The wii has enouph power to run a 3 year old game. SOurce can be done reasonably well on the wii.

But I expect games to take interactivity and physics to a much higher level before this generation is over, a level on witch we all know the wii doesnt have a dream of achieving.

There are no settings for the physics of the game. Hmmm maybe thats not true, I seem to recall a game where I could adjust the level of physics detail but cant recall if it was HL2. But regardless, when it came out source was making use of current gen tech to create a physics model that effected gameplay.

Why would I play something that I'm not interested in?dracula_16

So you say that it's casualized when you haven't even played it. :|

I take Gamespot's word for it because they have saved me hundreds of dollars in the past. I have only disagreed with them once or twice.

dracula_16

Yes because all know how spot on the Prime 3 review was.

[QUOTE="dracula_16"]

Why would I play something that I'm not interested in?Gunraidan

So you say that it's casualized when you haven't even played it. :|

I take Gamespot's word for it because they have saved me hundreds of dollars in the past. I have only disagreed with them once or twice.

dracula_16

Yes because all know how spot on the Prime 3 review was.

calling someone out in your sig is so childish.

and not everyone agree's with you that MP 3 was underated by GS, even though I do agree it was. But not EVERYONE does.

so get a real sig.

Is it at all possible that what one you sees as improved gameplay isn't what the other sees? For some people, details like organic glass breaking draw you thaht much more into the game. For some people, the knowldge that the glass is broken is enough and how it looks is much less of a factor than whether there is a use for glass breaking (can I jump through it to a secret weapons cache, is there a better way to approach my enemies, is it a one way mirror that I can use to plan a surprise attack, etc.

Gameplay is very subjective and different people are entertained by different things. Different people think differently about their character and their surroundings. The open endedness of games has been steadily increasing so that the games appeal to a wider range. If you want to sneak through shadows and pick off people you can. If you want to run in guns blazing, jumping from cover to cover, lifepak to lifepak. You can!

I think more options (difficulty included) does more to let everyone be involved than exclude on individual group. In this aspect, more power means more options means better gameplay. In the same vein, familiar hardware means better use of resource (i.e. more power)means more options means better gameplay.

Console gaming has been more or less running Beta testing up until this point. Throw in the best hardware we can get at the time to make it future proof. Nintendo was the first to break the mold and say, "Hey, let's give them tested hardware that we can really pull the most out of."

1. You are a true fanboy though. You are such a "core" nintendo fan
2. I really dont think you have played enouph games (certainly not PC games) to have a quality opinion.
3. This is why I hate nintendo. There are a lot of real gamers that love their wii and could argue its pro's better then you. But just becouse you are a "core" nintendo fan does not make you a gamer.

You are the red headed step child of the gaming world get used to it.

Coyo7e

1) Yes I admit it I'm a "Core" Nintendo fan :roll:

2) Yes I don't play enough games I don't play many games at all

3) This is why you hate Nintendo?

Hating a video game company proves that YOU'RE the fanboy. How the hell can you hate a video game company lol. That is just silly. Sure you could say you dislike something but to say you "HATE" Nintendo is freely and openly admitting your are a fanboy.

Oh and nice little insult at the end. You sure are grown now.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="Coyo7e"]

well it depends on a well made game doesnt it?

By not having the power to do cuting edge gameplay, nintendo automaticly cuts out a major portion of what current gen games are doing.

But please, tell me how the physics in HL 2 did not directly translate into gameplay?

Coyo7e

HL2 has the best use of physics in an fps game that i've ever played. but it's also one of the fps's of modern days that has the lowest system requirements. even on the lowest settings the physics are the same. only the graphics are less. doesn't that hurt your argument?

Not to mention the physics for the game don't change whether I have it on HIGH Settings or LOW Settings. Imagine that :shock:

The wii has enouph power to run a 3 year old game. SOurce can be done reasonably well on the wii.

But I expect games to take interactivity and physics to a much higher level before this generation is over, a level on witch we all know the wii doesnt have a dream of achieving.

There are no settings for the physics of the game. Hmmm maybe thats not true, I seem to recall a game where I could adjust the level of physics detail but cant recall if it was HL2. But regardless, when it came out source was making use of current gen tech to create a physics model that effected gameplay.

honestly source type graphics are fine. the interactivity is fine too. both are higher than 99% of games i saw for consoles last gen.

and no HL2 didn't have a physics detail. Fear did but Fear didn't even use physics as part of it's game play. just to make things look cooler.