Why would anyone not own a gaming PC?

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="RoboThreat"] it makes perfect sense. I don't care for Mods.... they do not interest meRoboThreat

Then I'm assuming you totally despise games like Counter Strike. After all, those were mods before. All I can say is that I highly doubt you even played a game with a mod to judge.

Counter Strike began as a mod. Didn't you say you don't care about mods?

[QUOTE="dRuGGeRnaUt"]I was a PC-only gamer, up until just before the end of last gen. I got sick of all the PC-related problems, and instabilities. I saw how much focus and resources were being put into the console-gaming market. Then I also noticed, that all my friends had bought one machine, that lasted them 6+ years and still played everything smoothly. For too many people, computers are to much work to keep them functioning properly. Unless you have a STRICTLY gaming only rig, you're bound to run into problems eventually, even with the proper protection. In the end, I am glad I am playing(mostly) consoles at this point, because I think (imo) PC devs are getting sick of the amount of piracy in the PC-gaming market. Just look at the sales figures, considering how many computers there are out there, these numbers are pathetic. Not saying consoles don't have piracy issues, just obviously PC has a WAY bigger problem. Therefor publishers and developers alike see console sales number often(and easily) in the millions. only a few PC games have the same sales, and they mostly come from one company.WhenCicadasCry

Bull****. Because it's only been this gen that consoles were capable of playing games smoothly through the entire generation right? :lol:

Like I stated before, PC has so many games, superior multiplats and mods that it has something for everyone. Just look through adrian wernerlist. I understand holding a console for exclusives, I have a PS3. But that still doesn't give me a good explanation of why one would ignore the PC when it offers so much.

argetlam00

If PC truly had something for everyone then why are we even having this discussion? Surely the consumer masses would realize and understand that PC meets all their needs all the time and there is no reason to ever own another product.

Clearly, the FACT we are having this debate (yet again) is proof that many people do NOT feel the PC meets their gaming needs, for whatever reason.

Counter Strike began as a mod. Didn't you say you don't care about mods?argetlam00

Counter Strike is now acomplete game.

It being a mod before means little, because it no longer is.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]Counter Strike began as a mod. Didn't you say you don't care about mods?IronBass

Its a complete game because the mod is finished :| There are many mods that are just as good as games. You've never heard of total conversions?

PC is all about jumping through hurdles, so to say. There is always something. You say I can sit down on my couch and play PC, but why should I do that? All it is, is another hurdle. I have to figure out how to do it, how much it will cost, where I can get the tools I need, and whatever else I have to do.

Serious question, though. Are there really a bunch of non-Strategy/non-Online-Oriented RPG exclusives coming to PC in the forseeable future? Aside from maybe some indie games, all I can think of is The Witcher 2 (possibly headed to consoles).

I ask not to detract from the upcoming PC lineup but out of curiousity... the tide of multiplats has inevitably affected all platforms.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="dRuGGeRnaUt"]I was a PC-only gamer, up until just before the end of last gen. I got sick of all the PC-related problems, and instabilities. I saw how much focus and resources were being put into the console-gaming market. Then I also noticed, that all my friends had bought one machine, that lasted them 6+ years and still played everything smoothly. For too many people, computers are to much work to keep them functioning properly. Unless you have a STRICTLY gaming only rig, you're bound to run into problems eventually, even with the proper protection. In the end, I am glad I am playing(mostly) consoles at this point, because I think (imo) PC devs are getting sick of the amount of piracy in the PC-gaming market. Just look at the sales figures, considering how many computers there are out there, these numbers are pathetic. Not saying consoles don't have piracy issues, just obviously PC has a WAY bigger problem. Therefor publishers and developers alike see console sales number often(and easily) in the millions. only a few PC games have the same sales, and they mostly come from one company.dRuGGeRnaUt

Bull****. Because it's only been this gen that consoles were capable of playing games smoothly through the entire generation right? :lol:

Didn't read the rest of it. :P But you should know what you're getting yourself into when you PC game. Being suprised that a console lasts a generation shouldn't come as a suprised come the 7th generation

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

No, but 2 were FPS. So consolites don't like FPSs now? :|

WhenCicadasCry

I own a gaming pc and im a consolite and of the fps you mention only Crysis ws good i thought Stalker sucked and its not even that critcally accalimed so why do you guys act like its the next big AAA hit.

:| Gtfo.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/stalkershadowofchernobyl?q=stalker

Wow what a killer socre :| The media loves it and heres the awesome expansion

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/stalkerclearsky/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

Money, most people dont like to spend it.

argetlam00

Yet, PC games are cheaper than console games (especially when we start talking Steam deals) and you get far more than gaming with a new PC.

PC is all about jumping through hurdles, so to say. There is always something. You say I can sit down on my couch and play PC, but why should I do that? All it is, is another hurdle. I have to figure out how to do it, how much it will cost, where I can get the tools I need, and whatever else I have to do.

AmayaPapaya

PC is all about jumping through hurdles, so to say. There is always something. You say I can sit down on my couch and play PC, but why should I do that? All it is, is another hurdle. I have to figure out how to do it, how much it will cost, where I can get the tools I need, and whatever else I have to do.

AmayaPapaya

You make it sound like you're building the Large Hardron Collider.

Its a complete game because the mod is finished :| There are many mods that are just as good as games. You've never heard of total conversions?argetlam00

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]Its a complete game because the mod is finished :| There are many mods that are just as good as games. You've never heard of total conversions?IronBass

If you care about total conversion mods like Counter Strike, then you care about mods. Or do you only care about a mod if it costs money :|

[QUOTE="dRuGGeRnaUt"]I was a PC-only gamer, up until just before the end of last gen. I got sick of all the PC-related problems, and instabilities. I saw how much focus and resources were being put into the console-gaming market. Then I also noticed, that all my friends had bought one machine, that lasted them 6+ years and still played everything smoothly. For too many people, computers are to much work to keep them functioning properly. Unless you have a STRICTLY gaming only rig, you're bound to run into problems eventually, even with the proper protection. In the end, I am glad I am playing(mostly) consoles at this point, because I think (imo) PC devs are getting sick of the amount of piracy in the PC-gaming market. Just look at the sales figures, considering how many computers there are out there, these numbers are pathetic. Not saying consoles don't have piracy issues, just obviously PC has a WAY bigger problem. Therefor publishers and developers alike see console sales number often(and easily) in the millions. only a few PC games have the same sales, and they mostly come from one company.-Feath-

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

I own a gaming pc and im a consolite and of the fps you mention only Crysis ws good i thought Stalker sucked and its not even that critcally accalimed so why do you guys act like its the next big AAA hit.

TheSterls

:| Gtfo.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/stalkershadowofchernobyl?q=stalker

Wow what a killer socre :| The media loves it and heres the awesome expansion

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/stalkerclearsky/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2

I admit it's an aquired taste, but Clear Sky sucked. :P But then again, name me an equivalent of Stalker on the consoles. None.

Alright so your saying that the fact that PC has more MMO and RTS games than consoles is a NEGATIVE on the PC? Right....Yes it has multiplat games, but they are significantly superior than the console versions. Especially when we include mods. Some multiplats are so superior on PC, like TF2, that they are practically completely different games.

BTW, saying "I don't care for mods" is a very weak attempt to dismiss a very important feature. Why would you not care for something that you get for FREE that makes your game FAR better?

RoboThreat

1) First of all, nobody makes their console (or PC) buying choice based on multiplats. That is just a fact. They base it on exclusive games they want but would miss if they didn't buy that platform. So it makes no difference what multiplats are on the PC. What matters are the high quality exclusive titles. and NEW titles. You aren't going attract people to the world of gaming PCs by talking about awesome games from 20 years ago.

2) Mods. Why should anybody care about mods unless they already support the game in the first place. Why would I go out and buy a crappy game just because somebody made a mod for it? Sure, the mod would make the game better. Then again, why not just buy a better game in the first place?

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

:| Gtfo.

WhenCicadasCry

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/stalkershadowofchernobyl?q=stalker

Wow what a killer socre :| The media loves it and heres the awesome expansion

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/stalkerclearsky/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2

I admit it's an aquired taste, but Clear Sky sucked. :P But then again, name me an equivalent of Stalker on the consoles. None.

RAGE , not exclusive but will be far superior in every way. And I can name multiple exclusive FPS on consoels that are better although there diffrent kind of FPS.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"] A PC in the $500 range would wipe the floor with a console.

The past and the distant future are irrelevant. We are comparing the now.

If you care about total conversion mods like Counter Strike, then you care about mods. Or do you only care about a mod if it costs money :|argetlam00

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

PC is all about jumping through hurdles, so to say. There is always something. You say I can sit down on my couch and play PC, but why should I do that? All it is, is another hurdle. I have to figure out how to do it, how much it will cost, where I can get the tools I need, and whatever else I have to do.

WhenCicadasCry

You make it sound like you're building the Large Hardron Collider.

No I'm not. All I am saying is the truth. Unfortunately I am not one of those people who can build a PC, etc... I am like most people out there. It would take a lot of my time and money to learn that stuff. I don't want to spent the time or money either when I can just buy a console and never worry about anything but the money it takes to buy the games I want.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/stalkershadowofchernobyl?q=stalker

Wow what a killer socre :| The media loves it and heres the awesome expansion

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/stalkerclearsky/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2

TheSterls

I admit it's an aquired taste, but Clear Sky sucked. :P But then again, name me an equivalent of Stalker on the consoles. None.

RAGE , not exclusive but will be far superior in every way. And I can name multiple exclusive FPS on consoels that are better although there diffrent kind of FPS.

Lol? Rage looks like a cartoony post apocolyptic car racer shooter, while Stalker is a european survival horror game. Rage has regenerating health ffs. :lol:

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]If you care about total conversion mods like Counter Strike, then you care about mods. Or do you only care about a mod if it costs money :|IronBass

WTF does that mean? Now that a mod is complete its not a mod?

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Maybe now, but could you have built an equally powerful PC to a 360 for that price at the start of this gen? And won't it be the same next gen, when a console will equal a mid-high end PC for £300?

04dcarraher

The past and the distant future are irrelevant. We are comparing the now.

LMAO the guy who thinks a 6600 and 7600 will look better then the PS3 or 360 on any current games. Sorry but there not even in the same league now. He is under the impression that Prey on the 360 was a max effort that pushed the console to its limits eventhough its probalby one of the ugliest games on the system.

The same reason why I need to get a new one, I cant afford one right now.

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

I admit it's an aquired taste, but Clear Sky sucked. :P But then again, name me an equivalent of Stalker on the consoles. None.

WhenCicadasCry

RAGE , not exclusive but will be far superior in every way. And I can name multiple exclusive FPS on consoels that are better although there diffrent kind of FPS.

Lol? Rage looks like a cartoony post apocolyptic car racer shooter, while Stalker is a european survival horror game. Rage has regenerating health ffs. :lol:

Rage looks outstanding and the car part is basically like a horse. You can kill thingson it but thats not the base of the gameplay.

My favorite part of this whole thread? I love how all the PC die-hards want to convince people that PC gaming is so simple, anyone can do it. They wonder why anybody would think it is "too complex"....and then they make 100 posts basically debatingwhich components are the best, which are really necessary, what the best price really is, which graphics card is really the best, which graphics card is really necessary to play games for the next while, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, my head hurts just looking at all that and you guys want to know why people would rather not bother and just play consoles?

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Seriously? Despite all the advantages, there are still pure console gamers and it blows my mind.

PC gaming is:

1) not that expensive. I've seen good PC's built for 500 if your REALLY on budget.

2) Has more high scoring exclusives than all 3 consoles combined

3) Has mods, I've seen mods offered for free that are superior to expansion packs. Infact, many games IMO like Rome Total War would be garbage without mods. They can completely revolutionize a game.

4) I've found that PC games generally have the best and most mature community of players

5) PC gaming has unmatched technical power and the versatility it gives is next to none. While consoles are likely to be stuck with 1080p even on the NEXT generation, PC gaming, if you are willing to spend the money, can be running across multiple monitors with features like eyefinity.1920x1200 x 3 is 5760p.

6) Yes, PC gaming can be played on your "comfy" couch and you can connect your PC to your HDTV. If you don't want to use the superior M+K (superior for most genres that is) for a game, you can just connect a controller. LIke I said before, VERSATILITY

7) Best versions of all multiplats. Infact, some multiplats are so good on PC that they might as well be considered a whole different experience. Case in point, Team Fortress 2.

So, why do some people actually not game on PC?

NVIDIATI

1. A 500 dollar pc is not a gaming pc

2. Take out RTS,FPS and MMO and the pc doesnt have much at all when it comes to high scoring exclusvies. If you dont like those genres then that doesnt do you much good. And there are plenty of titles on the PS3/360 that are not on the pc.

3. Rome total war? You think console gamers care two craps about Rome total war? Mods help some games and are non existent on others. Most consolites have other games they can move to within a matter of weeks.

4. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.I play Leage of Legends right now on pc and it is one of the worst online communites I have ever played with. Same goes for Battlenet and many ohter pc online services the only diffrence is most people dont have a mic so you get to see them type there rage instead of vocing it.

5. The diffrence between 1080p and 1900x1200 is minimum at best. And the next generation of consoles will be pushing games with assets so high that no current pc will dream of running it at 1900x1200 res. Why would consoles focus on pushing more when there are only 1080p tv's?

6. Yea i got my pc hooked up to my tv but having a Keybored trey in my lap isnt more comfortable then a controller and most the genres I play Mouse and Keybored is worthless.

7. Sorry but you are wrong again. I would never play Assasins Creed 2 on pc it is horrible littered with bugs and a crappy DRAM feature that runins the game same with Splinter cell: Conviction and other games like SF4 where the online community on pc is non existent and the visual diffrene in those games are only resolution qualtiy.

At the end of the day it all comes down to prefrence and you are talking to someone who owns a gaming pc and still likes consoles better.

GAMING PC:

$560 with rebates:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg

· Case

· DVD Drive

· 550W PSU

· KB/M + Speakers

· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz

· CPU Fan

· AM2+ MOBO

· Windows 7

· 2GB DDR2 800

· 320GB HDD 7200rpm

· ATI 5770 1GB

· USB TV Tuner

PC Review Standards:

"It's a given that the PC version of a multiplatform game is gonna look better. But MW2 on PC is getting compared to other PC shooters. I played that version, not the console versions, and while MW2 looks good, it looks no better than what you'd expect it to look like. If our standard of comparison for PC games was "the console version," the PC version would get a higher score than the others over 90% of the time." Kevin V

@TheSteris You just ignored this because I'm right and used facts to back up my claims.

WTF does that mean? Now that a mod is complete its not a mod?argetlam00

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]If you care about total conversion mods like Counter Strike, then you care about mods. Or do you only care about a mod if it costs money :|argetlam00

WTF does that mean? Now that a mod is complete its not a mod?

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]WTF does that mean? Now that a mod is complete its not a mod?IronBass

Thats exactly what counter strike is... Its a total conversion mod.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Maybe now, but could you have built an equally powerful PC to a 360 for that price at the start of this gen? And won't it be the same next gen, when a console will equal a mid-high end PC for £300?

The past and the distant future are irrelevant. We are comparing the now.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Maybe now, but could you have built an equally powerful PC to a 360 for that price at the start of this gen? And won't it be the same next gen, when a console will equal a mid-high end PC for £300?

04dcarraher

The past and the distant future are irrelevant. We are comparing the now.

So you want to convince us that PCs are easy and simple and you don't have to constantly upgrade...and yet your post about not having to upgrade only refers to three years time and the two years prior you upgraded TWICE.

I don't think you are making the point you think you are.

My favorite part of this whole thread? I love how all the PC die-hards want to convince people that PC gaming is so simple, anyone can do it. They wonder why anybody would think it is "too complex"....and then they make 100 posts basically debatingwhich components are the best, which are really necessary, what the best price really is, which graphics card is really the best, which graphics card is really necessary to play games for the next while, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, my head hurts just looking at all that and you guys want to know why people would rather not bother and just play consoles?

ZIMdoom

We PC die hards do that so you don't have to :) How is this different than console fanboys fighting over a few pixels?

Why? I don't know! :P

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]WTF does that mean? Now that a mod is complete its not a mod?argetlam00

Thats exactly what counter strike is... Its a total conversion mod.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

PC is all about jumping through hurdles, so to say. There is always something. You say I can sit down on my couch and play PC, but why should I do that? All it is, is another hurdle. I have to figure out how to do it, how much it will cost, where I can get the tools I need, and whatever else I have to do.

AmayaPapaya

You make it sound like you're building the Large Hardron Collider.

No I'm not. All I am saying is the truth. Unfortunately I am not one of those people who can build a PC, etc... I am like most people out there. It would take a lot of my time and money to learn that stuff. I don't want to spent the time or money either when I can just buy a console and never worry about anything but the money it takes to buy the games I want.

It's really not hard. And if you really, really don't want to do it, it's 30-40 bucks to get a professional to do it.

And why wouldn't you want to sit on a couch and play PC games? How is it any better playing a console game on a couch? You're lying on a couch getting fat off video games anyways :P

Oh, and my computer will still be able to play games at or above console quality for at the very least another console generation. So ya, whoever said that consoles outlast PCs.... No.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]

1. A 500 dollar pc is not a gaming pc

2. Take out RTS,FPS and MMO and the pc doesnt have much at all when it comes to high scoring exclusvies. If you dont like those genres then that doesnt do you much good. And there are plenty of titles on the PS3/360 that are not on the pc.

3. Rome total war? You think console gamers care two craps about Rome total war? Mods help some games and are non existent on others. Most consolites have other games they can move to within a matter of weeks.

4. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.I play Leage of Legends right now on pc and it is one of the worst online communites I have ever played with. Same goes for Battlenet and many ohter pc online services the only diffrence is most people dont have a mic so you get to see them type there rage instead of vocing it.

5. The diffrence between 1080p and 1900x1200 is minimum at best. And the next generation of consoles will be pushing games with assets so high that no current pc will dream of running it at 1900x1200 res. Why would consoles focus on pushing more when there are only 1080p tv's?

6. Yea i got my pc hooked up to my tv but having a Keybored trey in my lap isnt more comfortable then a controller and most the genres I play Mouse and Keybored is worthless.

7. Sorry but you are wrong again. I would never play Assasins Creed 2 on pc it is horrible littered with bugs and a crappy DRAM feature that runins the game same with Splinter cell: Conviction and other games like SF4 where the online community on pc is non existent and the visual diffrene in those games are only resolution qualtiy.

At the end of the day it all comes down to prefrence and you are talking to someone who owns a gaming pc and still likes consoles better.

NVIDIATI

GAMING PC:

$560 with rebates:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg

· Case

· DVD Drive

· 550W PSU

· KB/M + Speakers

· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz

· CPU Fan

· AM2+ MOBO

· Windows 7

· 2GB DDR2 800

· 320GB HDD 7200rpm

· ATI 5770 1GB

· USB TV Tuner

PC Review Standards:

"It's a given that the PC version of a multiplatform game is gonna look better. But MW2 on PC is getting compared to other PC shooters. I played that version, not the console versions, and while MW2 looks good, it looks no better than what you'd expect it to look like. If our standard of comparison for PC games was "the console version," the PC version would get a higher score than the others over 90% of the time." Kevin V

@TheSteris You just ignored this because I'm right and used facts to back up my claims.

You didnt use any facts to back up your claims, I got my post deleted because I said something about being reported to the mods . Regardless what does this post have to do with my argument? I didnt mention MW2 in my post at all . I dont even own the game and could care less about it.The games I mention SF4 and SC.C were better on consoles yes ive played both and the visual settings are only due to resolution. so please tell me how MW2 is relevant to this post? There are some games better on consoles simple as that.

You also need to work on your math. Thats a 600$ pc not 500.

Thats exactly what counter strike is... Its a total conversion mod.argetlam00

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

My favorite part of this whole thread? I love how all the PC die-hards want to convince people that PC gaming is so simple, anyone can do it. They wonder why anybody would think it is "too complex"....and then they make 100 posts basically debatingwhich components are the best, which are really necessary, what the best price really is, which graphics card is really the best, which graphics card is really necessary to play games for the next while, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, my head hurts just looking at all that and you guys want to know why people would rather not bother and just play consoles?

argetlam00

We PC die hards do that so you don't have to :) How is this different than console fanboys fighting over a few pixels?

You didnt use any facts to back up your claims, I got my post deleted because I said something about being reported to the mods . Regardless what does this post have to do with my argument? I didnt mention MW2 in my post at all . I dont even own the game and could care less about it.The games I mention SF4 and SC.C were better on consoles yes ive played both and the visual settings are only due to resolution. so please tell me how MW2 is relevant to this post? There are some games better on consoles simple as that.

TheSterls

He was just refuting your 1st point about a $500 PC not being a gaming PC. That's all the post was, the last part, i'm not too sure.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

My favorite part of this whole thread? I love how all the PC die-hards want to convince people that PC gaming is so simple, anyone can do it. They wonder why anybody would think it is "too complex"....and then they make 100 posts basically debatingwhich components are the best, which are really necessary, what the best price really is, which graphics card is really the best, which graphics card is really necessary to play games for the next while, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, my head hurts just looking at all that and you guys want to know why people would rather not bother and just play consoles?

savagetwinkie

We PC die hards do that so you don't have to :) How is this different than console fanboys fighting over a few pixels?

Your comparing parts and their performance in a system, just like console fanboys compare performance on their systems.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"] A mod is when an existing game is changed (modified, hence the term "mod") in some ways. If it's a full game, it's that, a full game.savagetwinkie

Thats exactly what counter strike is... Its a total conversion mod.

Counterstrike 1.6 was a total conversion mod for Half Life 1. CS:Source was CS1.6 remade using the source engine.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]

The past and the distant future are irrelevant. We are comparing the now.

ZIMdoom

So you want to convince us that PCs are easy and simple and you don't have to constantly upgrade...and yet your post about not having to upgrade only refers to three years time and the two years prior you upgraded TWICE.

I don't think you are making the point you think you are.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Thats exactly what counter strike is... Its a total conversion mod.

argetlam00

No I'm afraid Total Conversions are mods in every way. Saying otherwise is laughable. Its why mods are so good.

My favorite part of this whole thread? I love how all the PC die-hards want to convince people that PC gaming is so simple, anyone can do it. They wonder why anybody would think it is "too complex"....and then they make 100 posts basically debatingwhich components are the best, which are really necessary, what the best price really is, which graphics card is really the best, which graphics card is really necessary to play games for the next while, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, my head hurts just looking at all that and you guys want to know why people would rather not bother and just play consoles?

ZIMdoom