Wii is ruining gaming? The Official Ownage to Wii Haters *requests sticky*

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="ganon42"]

ps2 AAA's in 10 months-8

wii AAA's in 10 months-2

ganon42

... Xbox 360's in 10 months... less then 8... Same with PS3... It's cause there are more games that set the bar higher. We expect more from games now then we did then.

ps3:3

360: 3

wii:2

Still more then wii's. Then again, one of them is a party game and the other is a 2 year old port.

You didn't even get the right amount of 360 AAAs: 6, but two of those are ports, and one will be ported soon.

Yeah, none of the game lineup exclusives look that great NOW if you only buy AAAs. Luckily, there are people like me who buy AA/As based on what gamerankings says (or our own opinion).

[QUOTE="ganon42"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="ganon42"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

What a waste of SW space. All that effort in the topic post and all these responses to prove that there are more casuals than hardcore gamers. WoW! Really?!! Good thing this was here or I wouldn't have known.

You should have addressed the actual argument, that is....as the Wii is selling well, it should be reasonable to assume that the gap between games being made for casuals, and games being made for hardcores should WIDEN. That is the argument, not simply the fact that more casuals exist already.

Addressing that argument could be done like so...."I agree, Wii will hurt hardcore gaming". That response wouldn't do much for your "ownage" factor,it isn't even topic worthy,but it's the only logical way to see it.

monkeysrfat

Um.. I think the links to the PS2 sales is to show that The PS2 had the same casual trash, and didn't kill gaming... why didn't the gap widen there?

1. PS2, while successful with casuals, did not set out to cater to them as it's primary market. All consoles do at some point, but the highlights of PS2 were the GT4's, GoW's, DMC's, etc... not Mario Party and Cooking Mamma. (exaggerated, but point clear?)

2. PS2 had the ability to cater to both casuals and hardcores. While the graphics were slightly behind Xbox and GC, there were infinitely closer than Wii is to PS3 or 360. That goes for all technical areas, not just graphics. More than that, the controller, while "interesting", will limit it's appeal and it's ability to control games in a traditional way. A shooter just won't be the same without two analogs, maybe not better or worse, but different nonetheless. PS2 was no hampered by this problem, nor any other Wii related issues.

3. PS2 wasn't priced like Wii. A console that far below the competition just begs to be bought, not because it's better, but because it's cheap. While this is good business, it's not good for us. The console that requires the least innovation and effort, and has the least to offer, is going to decimate in sales. PS2 was chosen for what it did, not how much it cost.

ps2 AAA's in 10 months-8

wii AAA's in 10 months-2

... Xbox 360's in 10 months... less then 8... Same with PS3... It's cause there are more games that set the bar higher. We expect more from games now then we did then.

ps3:3

360: 3

wii:2

Still more then wii's. Then again, one of them is a party game and the other is a 2 year old port.

The ps3's AAA games are Obllivion, Rainbow six vegas and ninja gaiden sigma. Two ports and 1 remake. And the 360 having 3 AAA games in a year and a half is pathetic. Although I think it has more

Ports....so now your hiding behind the 360/pc? I dont see none of these ports comming to wii anytime soon. I can at least play RE4 on the ps3 (ps2 bc). And i compared 360's AAA's first ten months (as of now its 6 i believe)

[QUOTE="ganon42"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="ganon42"]

ps2 AAA's in 10 months-8

wii AAA's in 10 months-2

Lyude77

... Xbox 360's in 10 months... less then 8... Same with PS3... It's cause there are more games that set the bar higher. We expect more from games now then we did then.

ps3:3

360: 3

wii:2

Still more then wii's. Then again, one of them is a party game and the other is a 2 year old port.

You didn't even get the right amount of 360 AAAs: 6, but two of those are ports, and one will be ported soon.

Yeah, none of the game lineup exclusives look that great NOW if you only buy AAAs. Luckily, there are people like me who buy AA/As based on what gamerankings says (or our own opinion).

Then again, those ports are exlusive to ps3/360/pc since i see non comming to the wii. And i compared 360's first ten months.

Ports....so now your hiding behind the 360/pc? I dont see none of these ports comming to wii anytime soon. I can at least play RE4 on the ps3 (ps2 bc). And i compared 360's AAA's first ten months (as of now its 6 i believe) ganon42

Yes, but RE4 on the PS3 will make your eyes bleed when you see the horrid graphics :P Wii has better graphics :lol:

[QUOTE="ken_gamer"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

What a waste of SW space. All that effort in the topic post and all these responses to prove that there are more casuals than hardcore gamers. WoW! Really?!! Good thing this was here or I wouldn't have known.

You should have addressed the actual argument, that is....as the Wii is selling well, it should be reasonable to assume that the gap between games being made for casuals, and games being made for hardcores should WIDEN. That is the argument, not simply the fact that more casuals exist already.

Addressing that argument could be done like so...."I agree, Wii will hurt hardcore gaming". That response wouldn't do much for your "ownage" factor,it isn't even topic worthy,but it's the only logical way to see it.

GundamGuy0

Um.. I think the links to the PS2 sales is to show that The PS2 had the same casual trash, and didn't kill gaming... why didn't the gap widen there?

The Wii is also under a year old, perhaps we can't judge all the games the Wii will get ever in teh next five years at this time?

I mean REUC, No More Heros, Fire Emblim, Forever Blue, Trama Center 2, RaymanRR2, MPC, SSBB, SMG, MKWii, BWII and others seem like they have potential to be good through great games.

I have no problems with that. It is the sheep though who should keep that in mind and stop making pointless threads like these and make comparisons that are just not fair and judge the Wii and other consoles as you've said since it's only been out a year.ken_gamer

Oh this thread isn't pointless, it's just that you both miss the point.

So just because a console is mainly about casual games (so far...it hasn't even been a year yet), it matters that there are a lot of casual games though none of the casual games are selling well, and hardcore games are selling well? The only exception to this is Nintendo, where Wii Play (a $10 game with remote), Mario Party 8 (which was being bought by hardcores and didn't ruin the industry on the N64/GCN), and WarioWare (which didn't ruin portable gaming with the DS or GBA or the GCN with the port of the original WarioWare). All the casual games that are selling well either originated on the GCN (which didn't ruin the industry or are $10 + a remote. They aren't realy non-gamer games either (except for Wii Play).

people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

The point is that it's not. If this statement was true gaming would have been ruined way before the Wii showed up.

[QUOTE="Lyude77"][QUOTE="ganon42"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="ganon42"]

ps2 AAA's in 10 months-8

wii AAA's in 10 months-2

ganon42

... Xbox 360's in 10 months... less then 8... Same with PS3... It's cause there are more games that set the bar higher. We expect more from games now then we did then.

ps3:3

360: 3

wii:2

Still more then wii's. Then again, one of them is a party game and the other is a 2 year old port.

You didn't even get the right amount of 360 AAAs: 6, but two of those are ports, and one will be ported soon.

Yeah, none of the game lineup exclusives look that great NOW if you only buy AAAs. Luckily, there are people like me who buy AA/As based on what gamerankings says (or our own opinion).

Then again, those ports are exlusive to ps3/360/pc since i see non comming to the wii. And i compared 360's first ten months.

I still kind of think Super Paper mario and Zelda would have been AAA with the new scoring system...

people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

And that go back as far as the NES days.....HELL!!! On second thought, it GOES further back than that and this phenomenon isn't limited to the Video Game Industry either! Pet Rocks Anyone? "Rocklords" anyone (Don't make me puke on those!), New Kids on the Block anyone? Airbus A380 anyone? "Missiles are here to stay, Guns are obsolete!!"

Some of the arguments you guys might know, some you will not but the point stand and it supports the tC's arguments, PEOPLE WILL BUY STUPID BAD STUFF NO MATTE WHAT!!! and not just here but elsewhere too but that doesn't mean the end of our industry!

The only thing good the Wii could do for gaming is give a platform for developers to make quick cash on loew budget horrible casual trash, then use their money to make good games they actually want to make for PS3/360.Lazy_Boy88

And we have another WINNER!! Sigh, when will this end?

The only thing good the Wii could do for gaming is give a platform for developers to make quick cash on loew budget horrible casual trash, then use their money to make good games they actually want to make for PS3/360.Lazy_Boy88

And another one who entirely misses the point.

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

[QUOTE="Lazy_Boy88"]The only thing good the Wii could do for gaming is give a platform for developers to make quick cash on loew budget horrible casual trash, then use their money to make good games they actually want to make for PS3/360.RahnAetas

And another one who entirely misses the point.

Yep. We should post on the first page that Wii Haters should READ and most importantly, UNDERSTAND what the TC is trying to say FIRST before posting! This is getting ridiculous!

[QUOTE="ken_gamer"]I have no problems with that. It is the sheep though who should keep that in mind and stop making pointless threads like these and make comparisons that are just not fair and judge the Wii and other consoles as you've said since it's only been out a year.RahnAetas

Oh this thread isn't pointless, it's just that you both miss the point.

[QUOTE="ginglejangle"]people buying bad games is ruining gaming.StryderK

And that go back as far as the NES days.....HELL!!! On second thought, it GOES further back than that and this phenomenon isn't limited to the Video Game Industry either! Pet Rocks Anyone? "Rocklords" anyone (Don't make me puke on those!), New Kids on the Block anyone? Airbus A380 anyone? "Missiles are here to stay, Guns are obsolete!!"

Some of the arguments you guys might know, some you will not but the point stand and it supports the tC's arguments, PEOPLE WILL BUY STUPID BAD STUFF NO MATTE WHAT!!! and not just here but elsewhere too but that doesn't mean the end of our industry!

alot of people buying trash=to more trash

Alot of trash= to people stop wasting money on trash and quit gaming.

[QUOTE="RahnAetas"]

[QUOTE="ken_gamer"]I have no problems with that. It is the sheep though who should keep that in mind and stop making pointless threads like these and make comparisons that are just not fair and judge the Wii and other consoles as you've said since it's only been out a year.ken_gamer

Oh this thread isn't pointless, it's just that you both miss the point.

Ah denial. Maybe you should read and understand the OP before continuing.

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

[QUOTE="ginglejangle"]people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

And that go back as far as the NES days.....HELL!!! On second thought, it GOES further back than that and this phenomenon isn't limited to the Video Game Industry either! Pet Rocks Anyone? "Rocklords" anyone (Don't make me puke on those!), New Kids on the Block anyone? Airbus A380 anyone? "Missiles are here to stay, Guns are obsolete!!"

Some of the arguments you guys might know, some you will not but the point stand and it supports the tC's arguments, PEOPLE WILL BUY STUPID BAD STUFF NO MATTE WHAT!!! and not just here but elsewhere too but that doesn't mean the end of our industry!

alot of people buying trash=to more trash

Alot of trash= to people stop wasting money on trash and quit gaming.

let me help you see the light and how/where your point were debunked...

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25799559&page=0

read the first post

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

[QUOTE="ginglejangle"]people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

And that go back as far as the NES days.....HELL!!! On second thought, it GOES further back than that and this phenomenon isn't limited to the Video Game Industry either! Pet Rocks Anyone? "Rocklords" anyone (Don't make me puke on those!), New Kids on the Block anyone? Airbus A380 anyone? "Missiles are here to stay, Guns are obsolete!!"

Some of the arguments you guys might know, some you will not but the point stand and it supports the tC's arguments, PEOPLE WILL BUY STUPID BAD STUFF NO MATTE WHAT!!! and not just here but elsewhere too but that doesn't mean the end of our industry!

alot of people buying trash=to more trash

Alot of trash= to people stop wasting money on trash and quit gaming.

On the PS2, I looked it up on gamersnkings, and there are 198 games with 62% or lower. That'sA LOT too.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Sales... again?

It's because of its sales that it is ruining gaming. If enough devs become greedy (publishers actually), they'd just churn out shovelware after shovelware of crappy minigames. The epic games would die out if they don't make the cash.

Dencore

:lol: Nice totally ignoring the whole post. I pretty much prooved they'd make less money making shovelware.

You haven't proved a thing. Nintendo and the third parties making games for Wii are still more focused on "simplfying" games adn they'd rather make trash like Wii Fit than something epic as evidence by Nintendo's pathetic showing at E3 and their idiotic ramblings at GDC before that.

You haven't proved a thing. Nintendo and the third parties making games for Wii are still more focused on "simplfying" games adn they'd rather make trash like Wii Fit than something epic as evidence by Nintendo's pathetic showing at E3 and their idiotic ramblings at GDC before that.

Gamer46

Metroid, Super Mario, Zelda...all quite epic if you ask me

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

You hated sales charts last gen. And it should sell well, I mean kids can finally convience their parents to buy this because its so much cheaper then everything else. Don't you think 360 or PS3 would sell good if it was 250 or whatever it is.immortality20

They'd be selling on par with or maybe even better than Wii because 1. Unlike what the sheep try saying, the Wii isn't selling because of it's games and 2. Despite the popular mantra around here, graphics do in fact matter and ifpeople could get a $250 system with games that look like they do on PS3 or Xbox360 it'd certainly be a big selling point.

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]

You haven't proved a thing. Nintendo and the third parties making games for Wii are still more focused on "simplfying" games adn they'd rather make trash like Wii Fit than something epic as evidence by Nintendo's pathetic showing at E3 and their idiotic ramblings at GDC before that.

dlp21

Metroid, Super Mario, Zelda...all quite epic if you ask me

Three games.

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

[QUOTE="ginglejangle"]people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

And that go back as far as the NES days.....HELL!!! On second thought, it GOES further back than that and this phenomenon isn't limited to the Video Game Industry either! Pet Rocks Anyone? "Rocklords" anyone (Don't make me puke on those!), New Kids on the Block anyone? Airbus A380 anyone? "Missiles are here to stay, Guns are obsolete!!"

Some of the arguments you guys might know, some you will not but the point stand and it supports the tC's arguments, PEOPLE WILL BUY STUPID BAD STUFF NO MATTE WHAT!!! and not just here but elsewhere too but that doesn't mean the end of our industry!

alot of people buying trash=to more trash

Alot of trash= to people stop wasting money on trash and quit gaming.

Sigh! WWWWOOOORRRRRFFFFF!!!! Come back in here and put your face in your palm again!!!

Again, You TOTALLY miss the MAIN point of the ORIGINAL argument...and MINE!

I listed out all those trash....except the fact those trash NEVER lifted off and became long lasting. Some haven't failed yet but are about too. Here I'll list it out for you JUST SO YOU GET THE FULL PICTURE!

1. Pet Rocks....'Nuff Said!

2. Rock Lords: You have to go back to the '80's for this one. After the popularity of Transformers, companies tried to catch the craze and one company made some Transformers wannabes where....You guessed it, the characters transformed into different rocks....You can guess how well that went!

3. New Kids on the Block: Read Back Street Boys, Spice Girls or N' Sync. This is the 80's early '90 version of the boy band phenomenon. Thank God it didn't last!

4. Airbus A380: More explanation needed on this one since if you are not an aviation enthusiast like me, it will go over your head. Back in the late 90's, Airbus thought it would be a good idea to find a replacement for the Boeing 747 Jumbo. They thought the market for "Super Jumbos" will explode. What they came up with is bascially the world's largest aircraft, the A380. This double-decker can carry up to 560 people across the pacific at 747 speeds. However, like the PS3, Airbus grossly miscalculated. Rising fuel costs and other costs meant airliners would rather have a cheap smaller aircraft that saves on fuel and better maintainable. The end result, plus internal screw-ups due to arrogance etc. (Where did I heard that before) meant the A380 currently is loosing BADLY to the Wii version of Airline jets, The Boeing 787. In fact, Airbus might never see a dime of profit on the big white lemon!

5. "Missiles are Here, Guns are Out"!!! Again, more detailed explanation cause this might fly over most people's heads. We need to go back before teh Vietnam War on this one. By the end of '50's with the rise of missiles, many people and "Experts" thought the age of missiles are here and that guns will be totally replaced by it! Guess what? Our "Smart" military planners actually believed this so nearly all of our fighter jets, READ the F-4 Phantom did not carry any guns, only missiles! And Guess What? This TRASH of an argunment died a VERY ugly death over teh sky of South East Asia!

Over Vietnam, we found out the hard way that not only are guns NOT dead, but they are vital! The humid bad whether over there played HELL with the then electronics of the time. Missiles like Sidewinders and Sparrows are UNRELIABLE as hell and even if the worked, during the unpredicitability of aerial dogfights, they still miss a plenty! Our pilots PAID dearly for this, some with their lives to gun armed Migs! That's why when it came to designing the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, the first requriement was that all these new fighters will carry a gun! This trash died a flaming death alright!

So anyways, before I bore out of your tears, the ORIGINAL argument was exactly this: Why the FARK would third-party developers NOT put their maximum efforts and produce a high quality game on the Wii in the future when teh cold hard fact states that trash games on the Wii DON't sell and the good games do? It doesn't make much business sense to do what a lot Wii hater is arguing! Unfortunatly, not many people are paying attention it seems, just like the lady I posted earlier with that camera!

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

dlp21

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no. And if something like Wii Fit is what will make people take the industry seriously, then I have no problem notputting any more money in to gaming and finding something better to do.

Good post, I just happen to disagree with how you're looking at things. I can see where playing Sonic or Mario leads in to playing something more epic, but when you're growing up on mini and party games or pet raising sims or brain games, you're not likely to move on to something deeper.

[QUOTE="dlp21"]

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

Gamer46

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no.

Good post, I just happen to disagree with how you're looking at things. I can see where playing Sonic or Mario leads in to playing something more epic, but when you're growing up on mini and party games or pet raising sims or brain games, you're not likely to move on to something deeper.

Your doing a good job at ignoring the TC's post aren't you?

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Sales... again?

It's because of its sales that it is ruining gaming. If enough devs become greedy (publishers actually), they'd just churn out shovelware after shovelware of crappy minigames. The epic games would die out if they don't make the cash.

Dencore

:lol: Nice totally ignoring the whole post. I pretty much prooved they'd make less money making shovelware.

Where are you getting yoru RE4 sales info? The title has sold over a million units among all its consoles. Capcom even stated it was the reason they had a great year in 2005 and I dont see that being possible with only 300,000 copies especially a high budget title like that.

Everyone harping on the fact that no one "gets it"....WE GOT IT!

The TC has listed the stats from a very sparse Wii collection to "prove" that Wii, and it's devs, will not have reason to make casual games. He even backed it up with an even fewer stats from PS2's library of thousands. Point proven? Ya, sounds reasonable.

Fact is, there are many other factors possible, and a future to consider. What if casual interest in the system picks up even more? This only stands to reason being that hardcores are the most likely to buy a system in it's initial months. What if game sales change? What if Wii hardcore titles become of lesser quality, and casual titles become of more? Just because they're better doesn't mean they will be entirely good, so this will still ultimately be a bad thing.

At least come up with something other than telling people they aren't as intuitive as yourself. It's even less a contribution than an point missed post.

The point that graphics matter is not valid, the PS2, Wii, and DS are the 3 top selling systems and none of them are graphically superior.

May I also introduce one of, if not the most casual game of all time. Tetris. Yes that is right, it is tetris, tetris is the game that got my Mom to play a gameboy, from there she played Super Mario, then Mega Man, then a Zelda game. Tetris is what got my mom into playing videogames today.

You want to know what got my girlfriend into playing games, Guitar Hero, once again I will make the case that this game is not designed with the "hardcore" in mind. Now she has played Super Paper Mario and Zelda TP.

You know what got many people into play games before many of us were even alive....Pong....Friggin PONG. I am talking about table tennis done in possibly the worst incarnation of an outside game ever.....ever yet it was a hit. Another one, Pac Man, quite a game that most people of all ages have played.

Just because Nintendo is saying hey, how can we get people to play videogames, get them hooked, and are coming up with solutions does not mean that Nintendo is failing the videogame industry at all.

[QUOTE="Dencore"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Sales... again?

It's because of its sales that it is ruining gaming. If enough devs become greedy (publishers actually), they'd just churn out shovelware after shovelware of crappy minigames. The epic games would die out if they don't make the cash.

Polaris_choice

:lol: Nice totally ignoring the whole post. I pretty much prooved they'd make less money making shovelware.

Where are you getting yoru RE4 sales info? The title has sold over a million units among all its consoles. Capcom even stated it was the reason they had a great year in 2005 and I dont see that being possible with only 300,000 copies especially a high budget title like that.

Sigh, another one that need to read the TC's post more carefully! He meant RE 4 Wii version!

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="dlp21"]

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

monkeysrfat

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no.

Good post, I just happen to disagree with how you're looking at things. I can see where playing Sonic or Mario leads in to playing something more epic, but when you're growing up on mini and party games or pet raising sims or brain games, you're not likely to move on to something deeper.

Your doing a good job at ignoring the TC's post aren't you?

Actually I did respond to him, and secondly, I could careless about sales, I base my opinions more on what I hear from each company and for a long time now Nintendo has basically been saying they want soccer moms, senior citizens, and other "non-gamers" to buy their system. They've given the "core" gamer a huge middle finger and Wii Fit is just the latest reason to no longer pay attention to them.

Everyone harping on the fact that no one "gets it"....WE GOT IT!

The TC has listed the stats from a very sparse Wii collection to "prove" that Wii, and it's devs, will not have reason to make casual games. He even backed it up with an even fewer stats from PS2's library of thousands. Point proven? Ya, sounds reasonable.

Fact is, there are many other factors possible, and a future to consider. What if casual interest in the system picks up even more? This only stands to reason being that hardcores are the most likely to buy a system in it's initial months. What if game sales change? What if Wii hardcore titles become of lesser quality, and casual titles become of more? Just because they're better doesn't mean they will be entirely good, so this will still ultimately be a bad thing.

At least come up with something other than telling people they aren't as intuitive as yourself. It's even less a contribution than an point missed post.

whoisryanmack

he is debunking the idea that the trash and casual gameson the wii sells soo well that it will destroy gaming; the TC says nay, that is not true! because the case of the wii and casual games selling well has always been the case every generation and that trash games on the wii dont sell well....

so you can hypothesize about the future all you want...but at the moment it isnt true and doesnt look like it will be looking at the facts

[QUOTE="monkeysrfat"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="dlp21"]

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

Gamer46

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no.

Good post, I just happen to disagree with how you're looking at things. I can see where playing Sonic or Mario leads in to playing something more epic, but when you're growing up on mini and party games or pet raising sims or brain games, you're not likely to move on to something deeper.

Your doing a good job at ignoring the TC's post aren't you?

Actually I did respond to him, and secondly, I could careless about sales, I base my opinions more on what I hear from each company and for a long time now Nintendo has basically been saying they want soccer moms, senior citizens, and other "non-gamers" to buy their system. They've given the "core" gamer a huge middle finger and Wii Fit is just the latest reason to no longer pay attention to them.

yeah, way to pick and choose what to hear!!

Nintendo said that they want to cater to everyone, including the hardcore...and asked why not? why cant we cater to hardcores and nongamers and casuals?

The point that graphics matter is not valid, the PS2, Wii, and DS are the 3 top selling systems and none of them are graphically superior.

May I also introduce one of, if not the most casual game of all time. Tetris. Yes that is right, it is tetris, tetris is the game that got my Mom to play a gameboy, from there she played Super Mario, then Mega Man, then a Zelda game. Tetris is what got my mom into playing videogames today.

You want to know what got my girlfriend into playing games, Guitar Hero, once again I will make the case that this game is not designed with the "hardcore" in mind. Now she has played Super Paper Mario and Zelda TP.

You know what got many people into play games before many of us were even alive....Pong....Friggin PONG. I am talking about table tennis done in possibly the worst incarnation of an outside game ever.....ever yet it was a hit. Another one, Pac Man, quite a game that most people of all ages have played.

Just because Nintendo is saying hey, how can we get people to play videogames, get them hooked, and are coming up with solutions does not mean that Nintendo is failing the videogame industry at all.

dlp21

The graphics argument has some merit when you consider the difference between Wii'sgraphics vs. what the other two can do. PS2 was inferior in that department compared to its competitors but it wasn't a major difference like it is thistime. The Wii gets blown out of the water.

I'd like to know how much an influence you had on your mother and girlfriend moving on to games like Mario, Mega Man and Zelda. I refuse to believe that somebody would just start on Tetris and then move on to something more serious without having somebody talking to them about the more "hardcore" games.

Lastly, when Nintendo's focus is stuff like Wii Fit and they're telling "core gamers" to basically f' off they are failing. Not the industry but the people whogrewup playing their games and supported themall these years.Before they went in their current direction I was huge Nintendo fan, but now they're essentially saying people like me don't matter anymore. Sure I'll get MP 3, SMG and SSBB, and another Zelda, and all will be great games, but where are the new franchises for the"core" gamer? There aren't any and ones that could possiblybe appealing,like Project Hammer, are being cancelled in favor of garbage like Wii Fit.

[QUOTE="monkeysrfat"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="dlp21"]

Also

I will take a diffrent stance in my argument to the TC.

Nintendo was the system that really brought videogames into the limelight as a serious form of media entertainment. They did this with the NES, SNES, and especially it's Gameboy system. I think one thing that everyone is overlooking is weren't we all just casual gamers at one point and time.

I mean I have played/owned almost every system since the Atari 2600, with a little help from my Aunt giving me her Atari systems along with an NES for christmas. And I want to believe that my game selection has become more "hardcore" as I became older and began to appreciate the art, storytelling, and gameplay of videogames. And yet I still own a Wii, I sitll own a PS3, and I own a PC which I built for gaming.

Yet I still find myself playing the games that got me into gaming so many years ago...almost 2 decades now. I still play Mario and Zelda. I don't play the offshoots for the most part, but the core series I still play. But what is great about these two specific franchises....they appeal to all gamers of all ages. I mean I was playing Ocarina of Time when I was 17 right along side my little brother who was 10.

I think you are missing the point of what Nintendo does best, and that is introduce gaming to the masses to cement gaming as a viable, respectable medium which is worthy of recieving the acceptance that the movie, music, and comic book industry have.

I hate to get political but if you want to have gaming taken seriously then Nintendo is your best friend.

Gamer46

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no.

Good post, I just happen to disagree with how you're looking at things. I can see where playing Sonic or Mario leads in to playing something more epic, but when you're growing up on mini and party games or pet raising sims or brain games, you're not likely to move on to something deeper.

Your doing a good job at ignoring the TC's post aren't you?

Actually I did respond to him, and secondly, I could careless about sales, I base my opinions more on what I hear from each company and for a long time now Nintendo has basically been saying they want soccer moms, senior citizens, and other "non-gamers" to buy their system. They've given the "core" gamer a huge middle finger and Wii Fit is just the latest reason to no longer pay attention to them.

This is all what we've been trying to say but the TC says that we ignore his post. Very good,gamer46. You rocked this thread.

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

Everyone harping on the fact that no one "gets it"....WE GOT IT!

The TC has listed the stats from a very sparse Wii collection to "prove" that Wii, and it's devs, will not have reason to make casual games. He even backed it up with an even fewer stats from PS2's library of thousands. Point proven? Ya, sounds reasonable.

Fact is, there are many other factors possible, and a future to consider. What if casual interest in the system picks up even more? This only stands to reason being that hardcores are the most likely to buy a system in it's initial months. What if game sales change? What if Wii hardcore titles become of lesser quality, and casual titles become of more? Just because they're better doesn't mean they will be entirely good, so this will still ultimately be a bad thing.

At least come up with something other than telling people they aren't as intuitive as yourself. It's even less a contribution than an point missed post.

anasbouzid

he is debunking the idea that the trash and casual gameson the wii sells soo well that it will destroy gaming; the TC says nay, that is not true! because the case of the wii and casual games selling well has always been the case every generation and that trash games on the wii dont sell well....

so you can hypothesize about the future all you want...but at the moment it isnt true and doesnt look like it will be looking at the facts

Plus the fact Whoisryanmack's argument can be used both ways. So ok, the Wii collection is "sparse" and yea, it's too early, so if that's the case, then how does that prove, as Wii hater so eloquently put it, "WAAAHHHH, The All TeH MiNi GamA ReHasHa!!!" "WAHHHHH... TeH Wii Thw RuinAH GamMAGaNAHHHH!!!!!!" Shouldn't we wait till more games come out and wait for at least a year before jumping to conclusions? An No! Don't EVEN bring up "WAHHHHH The MinI-GAMAgAAA". The only mini-games right now I can think of is Rayman, Mario Party, Monkey Balls. And no, Warioware is MICRO-Games and Rayman is actually a VERY good game! The rest like Cooking Mama and Brain Age flunked! So that leaves what? Wii Haters doesn't have too much of an argument and yet here they go again and again and again and agan, "WAHHHHH......The Wii Da TehRuin......." You get the picture!

^^^StryderK put the nail in the coffin

now, hopefully, i will stop hearin the stupid "wii is ruining gaming" and "wii is for casuals only"

i hope

I'd like to know how much an influence you had on your mother and girlfriend moving on to games like Mario, Mega Man and Zelda. I refuse to believe that somebody would just start on Tetris and then move on to something more serious without having somebody talking to them about the more "hardcore" games.

Secondly, whenNintendo's focus is stuff like Wii Fit and they're telling "core gamers" to basically f' off they are failing. Not the industry but the people whogrewup playing their games and supported themall these years.Before they went in their current direction I was huge Nintendo fan, but now they're essentially saying people like me don't matter anymore. Sure I'll get MP 3, SMG and SSBB, and another Zelda, and all will be great games, but where are the new franchises for the"core" gamer? There aren't any and ones that could possiblybe appealing,like Project Hammer, are being cancelled in favor of garbage like Wii Fit.

Gamer46

First of all I had no influence on my Mom or my girlfriend. The way that my Mom got into it was because of curiosity. She picked up my gameboy one day when I was like 8, I really didn't know how to talk people into gaming at that age. She started playing, she loved tetris and so she tried some other games. Now that I think about it more, Dr Mario was next, so the next logical progression was to play another mario game hence Super Mario Land. It wasn't until I found out that she beat SML before me that I started to recommend games to her.

My girlfriend I def had a hand in, but she had already been playing Guitar Hero for some time, it has quite a large following at the College she graduated from. I told her since she liked it she should try something diffrent....I of course recommend Super Paper Mario...Once again it seems that Mario is a key player. After she beat that....before me too....I moved her onto Zelda, so that is that story.

All Nintendo is trying to do is get people to play, even if it is Wii Fit, then they throw a Mario character in, then people make the connection Mario = Fun, they buy Mario, proggresion continues.

I don't think Nintendo has told anyone to F off as you like to put it. I think what they have said from the begining is that they want to appeal to everyone, gamers and non gamers alike. Just because you take offense to the non gaming games doesn't mean that Nintendo is ruining gaming for anyone.

That is like saying that Disney ruined movies because they only put out Family centric movies. Or Hanah Montana ruined music because it isn't rap/rock. Or the Discovery Channel ruined TV because it is educational.

Your inability to see the bigger picture is actually what is ruining games.

And I highly doubt that Project Hammer was scrapped on the sole merit of Nintendo wants to do Wii fit.

^^^StryderK put the nail in the coffin

now, hopefully, i will stop hearin the stupid "wii is ruining gaming" and "wii is for casuals only"

i hope

anasbouzid

The problem is, we will keep on hear it until the cows come hom....It won't stop cause Wii-Haters has nothing left and "WAHHH....The Is Da TeH RuiNaGaDa TeH GAmAGaDA" is all they have left and for them, ignorance is bliss I suppose...

^^^StryderK put the nail in the coffin

now, hopefully, i will stop hearin the stupid "wii is ruining gaming" and "wii is for casuals only"

i hope

anasbouzid

It will stop when Nintendo decides to make it stop and the only way that will happen is if they start trying to get serious about the hardcore gamer, which they haven't. And don't go throwing SMG, SSBB, Zelda, Metroid or any other old franchise in my face. They have plenty of time to make new crap like Wii Fit for the non-gamers, well then they should certainly have time to make a new RPG or a new Platform series. When this happens then I will truly believe they're trying to cater to everybody. And getting a real online set up wouldn't hurt either.

^^^StryderK put the nail in the coffin

now, hopefully, i will stop hearin the stupid "wii is ruining gaming" and "wii is for casuals only"

i hope

anasbouzid

yes he did, smack in the coffin, I say. He actually discussed something! It was incredible! He used logic and facts to articulate a point other than "everyone here is an idiot who doesn't understand". I loved every minute of it!

Of course, you will neve hear the end of these arguments. The past matters, and is a good predictor of future events, but only when the the present mimics the past. Wii is going in an entirely different direction than any other console you could compare it to, making PS2 comparisons just about useless. Nintendo has brought these claims upon themselves by stating outright that they are directed squarely at providing a great casual-friendly experience. That's hard to overlook.