Wii is ruining gaming? The Official Ownage to Wii Haters *requests sticky*

I never said get rid of the MGS, the Zelda etc.

One that won't ever happen, why because those games sell ridiculously well.

Two they are the foundation of which videogaming is built.

Getting rid of them is like trying to stop people from creating classical music, I'm talking about Bach, Bethoven, Mozart. People still create this kind of music, is it the most popular. No but it warrants some of the highest regard as far as music goes. Why, because this is what all music started out as.

Take Metal for example. If you look at the complexity of Metal you would confuse it with the likes of some of the greatest works of all time, it is classical music down with modern instruments. There is a following, was Metal ruined by pop, do bands not inspire to be like the Beatles because of Brittany.

Your argument is debunk

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

Great post. The sheep want to say that yes, people can move on from Wii Fit to say Zelda. Personally, I have yet to see it happen. The only times I've ever seen somebody move on from something like say Tetris or Guitar Hero to more serious games is when myself or one of my friends has actually helped them along in the process. There are several people I know who don't play a ton of games but bought a Wii for Wii Sports. What have they moved on to from there? Mario Party, Wario Ware, Wii Play. Hardly what I call hardcore games. What is the game they want next? Not SMG, not Metroid, but you guessed it... Wii Fit.

Like I said, the first game myself and several of my friends started with was Super Mario Bros. I can see moving on from that to something like Zelda or Metal Gear. But I have never seen somebody move from Guitar Hero to Metal Gear Solid.

StryderK

Let me ask you a question. How do you learn to read great literary arts?? Do you one day pick up "Of War and Peace" or "The Great Gatsby" or "Catch-22". Def not, you learn first with easy simple tasks, then slowly progress to something harder and harder.

You guys undercutting the Wii is fool hearted. What you "hardcore" gamers need to be doing is in fact introducing the Wii to your parents, your wives, kids, friends, neighbors, and everyone else and teaching them games can be fun just like great literary art.

I ask that you seriously read all my posts all on pages 12, 13, 14, etc as I believe have made more then a grandiose argument for the Wii.

Well, I'll bring myself down to their levels and go dumb and stupid for a second:

**Puts on Fanboy Goggles and go back in time**

My GOshagADAGA!!! I LoveGa Super Marioga, Sonicga, MetriodGA!! They are TeH AwSpmEGA!!! TekkenGa, FFGA, What Gama Are TeHese? They WiLL Never Be as HardCoreGA As ThOsE Games!!! ThEy ArE TeH RuIn TeH GAmInGNAGATAGA!!!"

See....I can be dumb too.....Hardcore gamers has to start SOMEWHERE and if it's Wii-Sports or Wii-Fit that get them started, then that is GOOD news because otherwise, they would've never even considering TOUCHING games! And if you do it right and feed them and bring them along SLOWLY, eventually,t hey will become hardcore gamers! It took me around 15 years before I considered myself to be a hard core gamer. It will probably take that long, 10 years before the casuals and non-gamers becomes one too. Yes, some will get lost along the way, but that won't disturb me because anyone that STARTS on gaming is a POTENTIAL hardcore gamer. You can't convert hardcore gamers into even more hardcore. To expand our ranks, you have to start somewhere else.

That's actually not what we're doing at all. All we're saying, and I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand, is that most people who start on something like Wii Fit are less likely to move on to deeper games than somebody who starts on something like Super Mario Bros. back in the day... Oh wait, I do know why, it's because you're a fanboy and everything Nintendo does is perfect.

Sigh, again Gamer, you are NOT understanding this! It makes me a fanboy cause I'm not agreeing with you...ok.

AGain, you are thinking WAY too quick! Just how long it took you to become a hardcore gamer? Now you are trying to apply that same experiences to someone else and thinking, "Since I LOVE gaming, they musta be too now that they got started"! Well, hello, it doesn't work that way! Becoming a hardcore gamer is a long term project that takes perhaps years to accomplish and especially since people tends to stick with the tried and true, you have to encorage them to take chances, not all of sudden try to shove an epic game like Zelda down their throats when they just started on Wii-Sports. That's like teaching a 6 year old how to ride a bicylcle and then shove them into a car and telling them to start driving! Again, go for something like Rayman or Wario Ware, something they believe they are able to handle and are fun at the sametime. With your dad, I won't even consider sending him Zelda till sometime...next year or so!

If I showed my dad something like Wario Ware or Rayman he'd be more likely to say "great lets move on to Mario Party." And then after that, whatever game is next. Because like you said, to him that is "tried and true" I think forcing that crap on him would make him even less likely to want to play something deeper.

[QUOTE="anasbouzid"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

Great post. The sheep want to say that yes, people can move on from Wii Fit to say Zelda. Personally, I have yet to see it happen. The only times I've ever seen somebody move on from something like say Tetris or Guitar Hero to more serious games is when myself or one of my friends has actually helped them along in the process. There are several people I know who don't play a ton of games but bought a Wii for Wii Sports. What have they moved on to from there? Mario Party, Wario Ware, Wii Play. Hardly what I call hardcore games. What is the game they want next? Not SMG, not Metroid, but you guessed it... Wii Fit.

Like I said, the first game myself and several of my friends started with was Super Mario Bros. I can see moving on from that to something like Zelda or Metal Gear. But I have never seen somebody move from Guitar Hero to Metal Gear Solid.

Gamer46

Let me ask you a question. How do you learn to read great literary arts?? Do you one day pick up "Of War and Peace" or "The Great Gatsby" or "Catch-22". Def not, you learn first with easy simple tasks, then slowly progress to something harder and harder.

You guys undercutting the Wii is fool hearted. What you "hardcore" gamers need to be doing is in fact introducing the Wii to your parents, your wives, kids, friends, neighbors, and everyone else and teaching them games can be fun just like great literary art.

I ask that you seriously read all my posts all on pages 12, 13, 14, etc as I believe have made more then a grandiose argument for the Wii.

Well, I'll bring myself down to their levels and go dumb and stupid for a second:

**Puts on Fanboy Goggles and go back in time**

My GOshagADAGA!!! I LoveGa Super Marioga, Sonicga, MetriodGA!! They are TeH AwSpmEGA!!! TekkenGa, FFGA, What Gama Are TeHese? They WiLL Never Be as HardCoreGA As ThOsE Games!!! ThEy ArE TeH RuIn TeH GAmInGNAGATAGA!!!"

See....I can be dumb too.....Hardcore gamers has to start SOMEWHERE and if it's Wii-Sports or Wii-Fit that get them started, then that is GOOD news because otherwise, they would've never even considering TOUCHING games! And if you do it right and feed them and bring them along SLOWLY, eventually,t hey will become hardcore gamers! It took me around 15 years before I considered myself to be a hard core gamer. It will probably take that long, 10 years before the casuals and non-gamers becomes one too. Yes, some will get lost along the way, but that won't disturb me because anyone that STARTS on gaming is a POTENTIAL hardcore gamer. You can't convert hardcore gamers into even more hardcore. To expand our ranks, you have to start somewhere else.

That's actually not what we'redoing at all. All we're saying, and I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand, isthat most people who start on something like Wii Fit are less likely to move on to deeper games than somebody who starts on something like Super Mario Bros. back in the day... Oh wait, I do know why, it's because you're a fanboy and everything Nintendo does is perfect.

what is it with you and wii fit?

your not a supporter of nintendo then ignore them...why are you posting a ton in this thread and all the other wii isnt ruining gaming threads?

all i know right know is when the wii will be excepted like the PS2 was ill remember you and how you said the wii will ruin gaming...and calling out fanboy without looking in the mirror first...

Once again, I'm not the one who's a fanboy, I don't follow any one company, just call it as I'm seeing it. Secondly, for the Wii to be accepted around these parts like PS2, like PSone, like SNES, it will have deliver the games, and so far it isn't doing that. Sure Nintendo will deliver some of their great first party content, but for the most part if things keep going the way they've been going, the library will never stand up to that of the PS2.

Again, you are making the mistake of, "What I said is right and fact and everyone else should just follow along". But the world doesn't work that way. You say Wii has to "deliver the games" but to the rest of us who have it and enjoy it and the games on it like Trauma Center, Wii-Sports, Zelda, SPM, Wario Ware. Godfather, RE 4 etc, we could care less and think the list is more then enough by far! Again, you keep on telling everyone that you are not a fanboy but everything you wrote basically says "I'm a kettle and I'm calling the pot black!" Just because you are not following one company doesn't mean you can be blinded by your OPINONs and right now you are!

I never said get rid of the MGS, the Zelda etc.

One that won't ever happen, why because those games sell ridiculously well.

Two they are the foundation of which videogaming is built.

Getting rid of them is like trying to stop people from creating classical music, I'm talking about Bach, Bethoven, Mozart. People still create this kind of music, is it the most popular. No but it warrants some of the highest regard as far as music goes. Why, because this is what all music started out as.

Take Metal for example. If you look at the complexity of Metal you would confuse it with the likes of some of the greatest works of all time, it is classical music down with modern instruments. There is a following, was Metal ruined by pop, do bands not inspire to be like the Beatles because of Brittany.

Your argument is debunk

dlp21

MGS 3 sold like crap.

Now we're comparing music to games? I don't know of a single person who cares about classical music. And yes, music was ruined by people like Brittany, Jessica Simpson and all those silly boybands. These are the fools who get all the radio time and a majority of the sales and take up all the aisles in the local FYE. I see nothing good in the local music stores anymore because the shelves are filled with pop crap after pop crap.

[QUOTE="dlp21"]MGS 3 sold like crap.

Now we're comparing music to games? I don't know of a single person who cares about classical music. And yes, music was ruined by people like Brittany, Jessica Simpson and all those silly boybands. These are the fools who get all the radio time and a majority of the sales and take up all the aisles in the local FYE. I see nothing good in the local music stores anymore because the shelves are filled with pop crap after pop crap.

Gamer46

I agree The wii is like Brittany Spears, a cheap whore who everyone thought was attractive for a year

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="dlp21"]MGS 3 sold like crap.

Now we're comparing music to games? I don't know of a single person who cares about classical music. And yes, music was ruined by people like Brittany, Jessica Simpson and all those silly boybands. These are the fools who get all the radio time and a majority of the sales and take up all the aisles in the local FYE. I see nothing good in the local music stores anymore because the shelves are filled with pop crap after pop crap.

TheDuffman26

I agree The wii is like Brittany Spears, a cheap whore who everyone thought was attractive for a year

:lol: That's a fair comparison.

1. Nintendo and Super Nintendo were the best systems hands down from the N64 on it went down hill. Why? Because Nintendo claimed that CD gaming ruined the gaming experince with load times. The real reason? Nintendo didnt want to lose money on each N64 they devleoped so they stuck a cheap cartridge format in there sytem and lost almsot all there 3rd party support to Sony which featured a modern day format which looked better was cheaper and easier to devleope for. Polaris_choice

I dont know about nintendo choosing that format because it was cheaper. They looked at the psone's format and thought it was unacceptable. The psone was plagued with defective, unreliable hardware and rampant piracy. Sony's empire was basically built on casual piracy. Nintendo thought that a format that stopped this while making it extremelydurable whileallowing for a console that costed only $250 at launch was enough to make 3rd parties satisfied. A swing and a miss, but who can predict the future. Maybe n64 would have won if it didn't launch 2 years after the psone

2. Then here comes the Gamecube once agian Nintendo doesnt put a DVD player in it why?Nintnedo claims they want a system thatis just for gaming. Real reason? Nintendo didnt want to put a DVD player in there system becuase they once agian didnt want to lose money on there platform so they stuck a mini disk in there console and once again had the most limited format. Was it that big of a deal? Not really certinaley not as big as the N64 days but other mistakes such as (Making Zelda the Windwaker cell shaded) A game that got great reviews but had it kept its hardcore look it would have brought many non Nintendo fans over to the system much like OOT did. Then giving up its 3rd party exclusives without a fight such as RE4 further droped my opionion of them. But even with that I was still with them.

I wont debate the DVD player thing, as it has nothing to do when discussing gaming. Sony capitalized on it, and good for them

A real hardcore gamer would forgive zelda for going cel shaded. Hardcore does not equal graphics whore. Windwaker was a beautiful game that earned its GOTY. Of course, it couldn't match the impact of a game like OoT, but ocarina was the first game of its kind and totally original, so of course windwaker was not going to have the same impact. As for giving up RE4 exclusivity, that was unavoidable. Nintendo is supposed to be good to the third parties, right? The GC was a disappointment by the time that game came out and so Capcom was not going to make that much money on the GC. It's easier for sony to bargain for exclusivity when they are dominant in the market.

3. Now comes the Wii and the reason why I have left the ranks of sheep. A system that Nintendo claims is to innovate gaming. The real reason? Nintendo cant keep up with the tech of Sony and Microsoft so they stick 5 year old tech in a box create a new remote and sell there system for $250.00 ( yet it only cost them$160 to make. ) While Microsoft launched there system at $400.00( cost them$525 to make each) Sony launched theres for$600( cost them$850 to make each). Now even knowing that the Wii was most likely going to be the biggestgimmick in gaming history( which it is) I was still willing to give it a chance. And what do I get ? Loads of Casual trash( like warior smooth moves and Wii sports) and PS2 and Gamecube remakes with new controls? Seriously the only decent titles they have coming are fromNintendo themselvs which is common for Nintendo consoles but theWii has more bottom of the barrel crap then any system I can remeber.

I think that nintendo just finds it unacceptable to release a console for that much money. Since the beginning, nintendo has always invested in materials that are readily available to make their consoles and not the latest piece of technology. Even the n64 and GC followed this formula, although the SNES, Gameboy, and DSare the most obvious examples of this. This gen, nintendo was looking at some pretty staggering costs as microsoft and sony were escalating in an arms race that nintendo wanted no part of. They saw the success of the DS, and then decided to take their own core philosophy quite literally. Cheap, available tech. The wiimote is actually cutting edge, btw, along with the touch screen in the DS. They just aren't overly expensive.

The wii is overpriced, but that will change. It will cost under $100. As of now, demand is so hot that a price cut might give the image of being completely unfindable.

It is VERY early in the wii's life, and it was possibly rushed to compete with the 360, which is why the ps3 kind of sucks too. When the wii hits its second wind it will be like the ds, only with more hardcore titles I'm sure, since the ds is a handheld.Oh, and Wii = gimmick is getting really old. It's obviously compete BS that nintendo haters say because it's easier to 'win' args with. The DS was called a gimmick too, but once devs make games around the controls and not the other way around, then the controls will no longer be gimmicky.

[QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

Gamer46

Sigh, again Gamer, you are NOT understanding this! It makes me a fanboy cause I'm not agreeing with you...ok.

AGain, you are thinking WAY too quick! Just how long it took you to become a hardcore gamer? Now you are trying to apply that same experiences to someone else and thinking, "Since I LOVE gaming, they musta be too now that they got started"! Well, hello, it doesn't work that way! Becoming a hardcore gamer is a long term project that takes perhaps years to accomplish and especially since people tends to stick with the tried and true, you have to encorage them to take chances, not all of sudden try to shove an epic game like Zelda down their throats when they just started on Wii-Sports. That's like teaching a 6 year old how to ride a bicylcle and then shove them into a car and telling them to start driving! Again, go for something like Rayman or Wario Ware, something they believe they are able to handle and are fun at the sametime. With your dad, I won't even consider sending him Zelda till sometime...next year or so!

If I showed my dad something like Wario Ware or Rayman he'd be more likely to say "great lets move on to Mario Party." And then after that, whatever game is next. Because like you said, to him that is "tried and true" I think forcing that crap on him would make him even less likely to want to play something deeper.

Just remember the phrase, "No risks, no rewards!" If you try to shove what you think are hardcore game this early, then you will NEVER succed, trust me! But then again, you are right in fearing if you give them the "Right" thing, he will never change course. What I would suggest is feeding him stuff like Tiger Woods Golf first (he likes golf right?). then maybe MAdden if he likes sports. Then Wario Ware and Mario PArty (Yes, I know mario party sucks and all that but remember you dad probably don't know this and for the first time, it will work for the fact it will suck him in deeper). But after mario party, hand him a great game like Super Paper Mario and tell him this is another Mario game! Then introduce him to Super Smash Bro. before moving on to Metriod and then Zelda.

The whole point here is start off SLOWLY, let him stay on track first for awhile and then slowly nudges him off course without him even knowing it! A heavy handed approach like handing him Zelda right after Wii-Sports will never succecced simply because no one wants to get off track! But if you make him believe you are not doing such things (but you are actually doing it), you chances are much better!

I'm not trying to compare just music, but all entertainment mediums. All of them have mainstream crap, but they all also have a deeper hardcore side to them. You ignore my point completely.

My point is that despite there being crap like Brittany, and Jessica, both of whom sell exceptionally well, there are also the likes of Norah Jones and Nuttin' but Stringz. What I am saying is that with out the mainstream legitimacy can never happen. It was the same for rock and roll, comic books, movies.

This is just part of the evolution of any entertainment medium.

And I am glad that you are so uncultured that you know no one that listens to classical music, next you will tell me you know no one that listens to Frank and Tony either.

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

Were there any numbers in that massive wall of a TP stating how much it cost to produce a game that doesn't sell well? If not, then the argument is unfinished.

Even though crap doesn't sell, Crap is cheap to make. A good game that sells well, does cost a lot to make. So, it is still possible that there is more money to be made in failures of cheap games than there are in the successes of costly ones. If this were true, it would only reinforce the fact that 3rd party devs should continue to produce crap. Total sales is only one half of this equation...you see?

Wii now provides an outlet for all these cheap and unsuccesful games (that make the most profit) to come out. Thus, it would be ruining gaming, all the while selling hardcore games the most.

It's a clever little trick they've got you on.

dlp21

Disgaea...your argument in now debunk

Prove it wrong. Game X could suck and be cheap to make, it may not sell very well, but per unit devs are raking it in on game X. Meanwhile, game Y costs a ton to make and sells really well. It's too bad game Y costs so darn much to make, or else per unit, devs would be raking it in on game Y......but they aren't. This very well could be happening, especially when you expand it the number of times Wii most certainly will. By providing an outlet for these cheap games, Ninty is allowing all devs the chance to cash in with little effort on a game that might sell alright, but will still make them bundles cuz they didn't put any money into it.

That could well be happening, and it would prove that total sales means jack when factored with the time and money resources that are needed to make a really great and great selling game.

Devs would decide hey, all we have to do is spend 6 weeks on this junker and we'll sell .5M of them! It won't be on the best seller list, but the difference between income and cost to make the game is so large, we'll be rollin in dough! Thanks Wii for giving us an audience who is willig to accept this!

I'll just remind everyone that the TC's arg was that the wii did not introduce the idea of hardcore games being outsold by casual trash. Also, that casual trash on the wii is not selling as a rule, as hardcore games are selling as much as they always have.GunSmith1_basic

woot for a reminder.....some of us need one!!!

[QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

Were there any numbers in that massive wall of a TP stating how much it cost to produce a game that doesn't sell well? If not, then the argument is unfinished.

Even though crap doesn't sell, Crap is cheap to make. A good game that sells well, does cost a lot to make. So, it is still possible that there is more money to be made in failures of cheap games than there are in the successes of costly ones. If this were true, it would only reinforce the fact that 3rd party devs should continue to produce crap. Total sales is only one half of this equation...you see?

Wii now provides an outlet for all these cheap and unsuccesful games (that make the most profit) to come out. Thus, it would be ruining gaming, all the while selling hardcore games the most.

It's a clever little trick they've got you on.

whoisryanmack

Disgaea...your argument in now debunk

Prove it wrong. Game X could suck and be cheap to make, it may not sell very well, but per unit devs are raking it in on game X. Meanwhile, game Y costs a ton to make and sells really well. It's too bad game Y costs so darn much to make, or else per unit, devs would be raking it in on game Y......but they aren't. This very well could be happening, especially when you expand it the number of times Wii most certainly will. By providing an outlet for these cheap games, Ninty is allowing all devs the chance to cash in with little effort on a game that might sell alright, but will still make them bundles cuz they didn't put any money into it.

That could well be happening, and it would prove that total sales means jack when factored with the time and money resources that are needed to make a really great and great selling game.

Devs would decide hey, all we have to do is spend 6 weeks on this junker and we'll sell .5M of them! It won't be on the best seller list, but the difference between income and cost to make the game is so large, we'll be rollin in dough! Thanks Wii for giving us an audience who is willig to accept this!

I think I did with Disgaea, a game that costs money to make yet has little return and yet they still keep churning them out. The likes of Zelda, MGS, etc will never disappear. It is all about legitamacy and crap makes things legit. It's the sad truth.

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]I'll just remind everyone that the TC's arg was that the wii did not introduce the idea of hardcore games being outsold by casual trash. Also, that casual trash on the wii is not selling as a rule, as hardcore games are selling as much as they always have.anasbouzid

woot for a reminder.....some of us need one!!!

Yea, We get it but it seems some of us here still didn't.....or is it they don't want to get it or trying to ignore it?

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]

Were there any numbers in that massive wall of a TP stating how much it cost to produce a game that doesn't sell well? If not, then the argument is unfinished.

Even though crap doesn't sell, Crap is cheap to make. A good game that sells well, does cost a lot to make. So, it is still possible that there is more money to be made in failures of cheap games than there are in the successes of costly ones. If this were true, it would only reinforce the fact that 3rd party devs should continue to produce crap. Total sales is only one half of this equation...you see?

Wii now provides an outlet for all these cheap and unsuccesful games (that make the most profit) to come out. Thus, it would be ruining gaming, all the while selling hardcore games the most.

It's a clever little trick they've got you on.

dlp21

Disgaea...your argument in now debunk

Prove it wrong. Game X could suck and be cheap to make, it may not sell very well, but per unit devs are raking it in on game X. Meanwhile, game Y costs a ton to make and sells really well. It's too bad game Y costs so darn much to make, or else per unit, devs would be raking it in on game Y......but they aren't. This very well could be happening, especially when you expand it the number of times Wii most certainly will. By providing an outlet for these cheap games, Ninty is allowing all devs the chance to cash in with little effort on a game that might sell alright, but will still make them bundles cuz they didn't put any money into it.

That could well be happening, and it would prove that total sales means jack when factored with the time and money resources that are needed to make a really great and great selling game.

Devs would decide hey, all we have to do is spend 6 weeks on this junker and we'll sell .5M of them! It won't be on the best seller list, but the difference between income and cost to make the game is so large, we'll be rollin in dough! Thanks Wii for giving us an audience who is willig to accept this!

I think I did with Disgaea, a game that costs money to make yet has little return and yet they still keep churning them out. The likes of Zelda, MGS, etc will never disappear. It is all about legitamacy and crap makes things legit. It's the sad truth.

Now don't go saying Mario, Zelda and MGS are trash now...:P But on the crap front, yea, you got 50 cents bullet proof and Mario Party...There are trash that sell. But fortunatly, for us, for every Britanny Spears, we got 10 Rock Lords, for every Jessica Simpson, we got 20 A380s! Trash mostly fail for a reason here!

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

StryderK

Sigh, again Gamer, you are NOT understanding this! It makes me a fanboy cause I'm not agreeing with you...ok.

AGain, you are thinking WAY too quick! Just how long it took you to become a hardcore gamer? Now you are trying to apply that same experiences to someone else and thinking, "Since I LOVE gaming, they musta be too now that they got started"! Well, hello, it doesn't work that way! Becoming a hardcore gamer is a long term project that takes perhaps years to accomplish and especially since people tends to stick with the tried and true, you have to encorage them to take chances, not all of sudden try to shove an epic game like Zelda down their throats when they just started on Wii-Sports. That's like teaching a 6 year old how to ride a bicylcle and then shove them into a car and telling them to start driving! Again, go for something like Rayman or Wario Ware, something they believe they are able to handle and are fun at the sametime. With your dad, I won't even consider sending him Zelda till sometime...next year or so!

If I showed my dad something like Wario Ware or Rayman he'd be more likely to say "great lets move on to Mario Party." And then after that, whatever game is next. Because like you said, to him that is "tried and true" I think forcing that crap on him would make him even less likely to want to play something deeper.

Just remember the phrase, "No risks, no rewards!" If you try to shove what you think are hardcore game this early, then you will NEVER succed, trust me! But then again, you are right in fearing if you give them the "Right" thing, he will never change course. What I would suggest is feeding him stuff like Tiger Woods Golf first (he likes golf right?). then maybe MAdden if he likes sports. Then Wario Ware and Mario PArty (Yes, I know mario party sucks and all that but remember you dad probably don't know this and for the first time, it will work for the fact it will suck him in deeper). But after mario party, hand him a great game like Super Paper Mario and tell him this is another Mario game! Then introduce him to Super Smash Bro. before moving on to Metriod and then Zelda.

The whole point here is start off SLOWLY, let him stay on track first for awhile and then slowly nudges him off course without him even knowing it! A heavy handed approach like handing him Zelda right after Wii-Sports will never succecced simply because no one wants to get off track! But if you make him believe you are not doing such things (but you are actually doing it), you chances are much better!

That's too much work and my dad is 53 years old anyway. I'm sure he doesn't want to play games that badly. It's something I'd consider trying on my friends who don't play a ton of games, but then I realize that since I have a full-time job, I don't have the timeto do that. If they're going to become hardcore gamers, great, but they'll have to find their own way, and playing stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and Wii Play, I just don't see that happening.

I'm not trying to compare just music, but all entertainment mediums. All of them have mainstream crap, but they all also have a deeper hardcore side to them. You ignore my point completely.

My point is that despite there being crap like Brittany, and Jessica, both of whom sell exceptionally well, there are also the likes of Norah Jones and Nuttin' but Stringz. What I am saying is that with out the mainstream legitimacy can never happen. It was the same for rock and roll, comic books, movies.

This is just part of the evolution of any entertainment medium.

And I am glad that you are so uncultured that you know no one that listens to classical music, next you will tell me you know no one that listens to Frank and Tony either.

dlp21

I'm uncultured because I'm 24 and don't know anybody who listens to Mozart? It's not like I don't have friends or relativeswho have never heard it, heck I've played Mozart pieces on my keyboard before, but none of us actually listen to it and I honestly haven't run across many people who do.

Anyway, I get what you're saying, but you're not convincing me that the games Nintendo is pushing for won't force more hardcore games out of the market.

[QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

Gamer46

Just remember the phrase, "No risks, no rewards!" If you try to shove what you think are hardcore game this early, then you will NEVER succed, trust me! But then again, you are right in fearing if you give them the "Right" thing, he will never change course. What I would suggest is feeding him stuff like Tiger Woods Golf first (he likes golf right?). then maybe MAdden if he likes sports. Then Wario Ware and Mario PArty (Yes, I know mario party sucks and all that but remember you dad probably don't know this and for the first time, it will work for the fact it will suck him in deeper). But after mario party, hand him a great game like Super Paper Mario and tell him this is another Mario game! Then introduce him to Super Smash Bro. before moving on to Metriod and then Zelda.

The whole point here is start off SLOWLY, let him stay on track first for awhile and then slowly nudges him off course without him even knowing it! A heavy handed approach like handing him Zelda right after Wii-Sports will never succecced simply because no one wants to get off track! But if you make him believe you are not doing such things (but you are actually doing it), you chances are much better!

That's too much work and my dad is 53 years old anyway. I'm sure he doesn't want to play games that badly. It's something I'd consider trying on my friends who don't play a ton of games, but then I realize that since I have a full-time job, I don't have the timeto do that. If they're going to become hardcore gamers, great, but they'll have to find their own way, and playing stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and Wii Play, I just don't see that happening.

Well, in that case, just let them be and stop worrying about it! Again, you win some, you loose some. Again, just remember you have to get them started somewhere and if Wii-Sport or Wii-Fit get them in the door, than that already is an important step! Who's to say they will just constantly stay with the same thing? Perhaps some of then will end up trying Halo, GTA or some other games! AGain, getting started is always the hard part. Once you get started, the galaxy is wide open! So if I were you I would stop worrying and just concentrate on playing games cause no matter what, casuals and non gamers wil always out number us hardcores that's for sure!

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Gamer46"]

StryderK

Just remember the phrase, "No risks, no rewards!" If you try to shove what you think are hardcore game this early, then you will NEVER succed, trust me! But then again, you are right in fearing if you give them the "Right" thing, he will never change course. What I would suggest is feeding him stuff like Tiger Woods Golf first (he likes golf right?). then maybe MAdden if he likes sports. Then Wario Ware and Mario PArty (Yes, I know mario party sucks and all that but remember you dad probably don't know this and for the first time, it will work for the fact it will suck him in deeper). But after mario party, hand him a great game like Super Paper Mario and tell him this is another Mario game! Then introduce him to Super Smash Bro. before moving on to Metriod and then Zelda.

The whole point here is start off SLOWLY, let him stay on track first for awhile and then slowly nudges him off course without him even knowing it! A heavy handed approach like handing him Zelda right after Wii-Sports will never succecced simply because no one wants to get off track! But if you make him believe you are not doing such things (but you are actually doing it), you chances are much better!

That's too much work and my dad is 53 years old anyway. I'm sure he doesn't want to play games that badly. It's something I'd consider trying on my friends who don't play a ton of games, but then I realize that since I have a full-time job, I don't have the timeto do that. If they're going to become hardcore gamers, great, but they'll have to find their own way, and playing stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and Wii Play, I just don't see that happening.

Well, in that case, just let them be and stop worrying about it! Again, you win some, you loose some. Again, just remember you have to get them started somewhere and if Wii-Sport or Wii-Fit get them in the door, than that already is an important step! Who's to say they will just constantly stay with the same thing? Perhaps some of then will end up trying Halo, GTA or some other games! AGain, getting started is always the hard part. Once you get started, the galaxy is wide open! So if I were you I would stop worrying and just concentrate on playing games cause no matter what, casuals and non gamers wil always out number us hardcores that's for sure!

It wouldn't bother me at all what direction Nintendo was going if Sony and MS were still topping them. However, I truly do feel that they no longer care about delivering hardcore games. Sure we Metroid, SMG, and Zelda, but there needs to be more than that to convince me they haven't totally decided to ignore us. The other thing is that if their approach works, you know Sony and MS will follow. All the sudden, instead of God of War we're looking at Kratos' Family Get Together or some party game bs.

SSX Blur should hve sold more. Very underrated game.m_machine024

It was a good game except for one thing...

THE F*&)(%@* UBER TRICKS!!!

Why is it that most of the wii's million sellers are practicly all minigames/party games (with spm/tp being only hardcore games).ganon42

Quit it with the hardcore games Ganon. Everyone's already discussed it and thats not what the tc was on about in the beginning

Why is it that most of the wii's million sellers are practicly all minigames/party games (with spm/tp being only hardcore games).ganon42

Read the post, gosh, it's been like what? 200 posts in 20 hours and you still haven't read? What's wrong with you?

Games like Mario Party, WarioWare were popular to begin with. Just READ, God damnit.

The only thing good the Wii could do for gaming is give a platform for developers to make quick cash on loew budget horrible casual trash, then use their money to make good games they actually want to make for PS3/360.Lazy_Boy88

:lol:

people buying bad games is ruining gaming.ginglejangle

:lol:

Just forget that the Halos and God of Wars sell 3million+ copies.SuperVegeta518

Let's just forget that God of War didn't sell 3 million + copies and that Zelda outsold God of War by one million copies. :lol:

[QUOTE="Dencore"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Sales... again?

It's because of its sales that it is ruining gaming. If enough devs become greedy (publishers actually), they'd just churn out shovelware after shovelware of crappy minigames. The epic games would die out if they don't make the cash.

Gamer46

:lol: Nice totally ignoring the whole post. I pretty much prooved they'd make less money making shovelware.

You haven't proved a thing. Nintendo and the third parties making games for Wii are still more focused on "simplfying" games adn they'd rather make trash like Wii Fit than something epic as evidence by Nintendo's pathetic showing at E3 and their idiotic ramblings at GDC before that.

Again more ownage Tales, Trauma Center, Nitrobike, Nights, etc.

If anyone has something to proove it's you. And as for Wii Fit, Nintendo announced 2 periphials to extend the gameplay exprience, they announced Advanced Wars 2 DS, they annouced Mario Kart Wii, and you pay attention to the one casual game there?

This is all what we've been trying to say but the TC says that we ignore his post. Very good,gamer46. You rocked this thread.

azad_champ

WTF all you said is that DOA 4 sold a million when it didn't. :|

The difference games like Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog, games that a lot of us first played, can lead you in to something more hardcore because these games themselves are ones that can be enjoyed by "casuals" and "hardcore" alike. With Wii the more popular games are stuff like Wii Play and Mario Party 8. Do you really believe people who play this crap will move on to stuff like Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc? I can tell you the answer right now... no.'

Gamer_46

This is a joke :lol: Really it is. I just posted that Zelda sold over 3 million copies, Super Paper Mario sold over a million, and that the "traditional and core games" are the better selling on the Wii then the casual games with third parties *could say First Party in the West too*. And now your saying the casual games are selling more? :lol: Self-Ownage to the max. Way to make stuff up. ;)

the why i feel wii is ruining(not really ruining but makeing worse) is that the hardware isn't very advanced and can't do much. i'm not talking about graphics i'm talking about physics, gameplay, ect. on PS3/360 i'm seeing great gameplay more enemies on screen, great physics the whole deal but on wii we basically get a better xbox with the wii mote. i have to gripes about the wii mote but i don't want to play GC games with a wii mote. i'd much rather paly PS3/360 games with wii moteRagashahs

Umm show me a game that couldn't be done last gen on your system. The only one I've seen is Dead Rising.

You want those things buy this.

Actually the consoles are ruining gaming since PC must hold back for the muiltiplats. ;)

It wouldn't bother me at all what direction Nintendo was going if Sony and MS were still topping them. However, I truly do feel that they no longer care about delivering hardcore games. Sure we Metroid, SMG, and Zelda, but there needs to be more than that to convince me they haven't totally decided to ignore us. The other thing is that if their approach works, you know Sony and MS will follow. All the sudden, instead of God of War we're looking at Kratos' Family Get Together or some party game bs.

Gamer46

This is even more ridiculous.

All these games are being released until the end of the year and all catter to the gamer. Actually there are more "core" games coming out then "casual" games for the Wii the rest of this year. Again a total misconseption that has absolutely no base whatsoever of something you completly pulled out of your arse.

And wait let me see something here.

Microsoft's 07 list *XBLA doesn't count and you wouldn't want it to since I'd have to include the Wii's VC then*

SONY's 07 list *PSN doesn't count and you wouldn't want it to since I'd have to include the Wii's VC then*

WTF Nintendo has just as many games targeted towards the gamer coming out this year as SONY and MORE then Microsoft! :lol:

Oh and before you say "NEXT YEAR"

Kirby Wii

This thread has gone through many pages, and there still hasn't been one person to challenge me. All we see are stupid little fanboys running around crying or just pulling stuff out of their arse. Is it that hard to understand that Nintendo isn't ruining gaming? Just because your console isn't winning doesn't mean you have to pout like a child.

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]SSX Blur should hve sold more. Very underrated game.FrankHurt

It was a good game except for one thing...

THE F*&)(%@* UBER TRICKS!!!

What it really missed is personality. Characters don't talk or scream or whatever... like in SSX Tricky.

Wow. This thread is still kicking?

... and I seeDencore is dishing out some logic. mmmm delicious logic.

Games like Cooking moma and brainagecost 10 grand to make, expect more non games to flood our market. Its almost as bad as Edutainment and hopefully poeple see through this junk.

Other than that ony 10 percent of wii ownerswere not gamers before, hopefully WiiFit flops hard and this wave of crap ends.

Games like Cooking moma and brainagecost 10 grand to make, expect more non games to flood our market. Its almost as bad as Edutainment and hopefully poeple see through this junk.

Other than that ony 10 percent of wii ownerswere not gamers before, hopefully WiiFit flops hard and this wave of crap ends.

ChinoJamesKeene

:lol:

Prove it wrong. Game X could suck and be cheap to make, it may not sell very well, but per unit devs are raking it in on game X. Meanwhile, game Y costs a ton to make and sells really well. It's too bad game Y costs so darn much to make, or else per unit, devs would be raking it in on game Y......but they aren't. This very well could be happening, especially when you expand it the number of times Wii most certainly will. By providing an outlet for these cheap games, Ninty is allowing all devs the chance to cash in with little effort on a game that might sell alright, but will still make them bundles cuz they didn't put any money into it.

That could well be happening, and it would prove that total sales means jack when factored with the time and money resources that are needed to make a really great and great selling game.

Devs would decide hey, all we have to do is spend 6 weeks on this junker and we'll sell .5M of them! It won't be on the best seller list, but the difference between income and cost to make the game is so large, we'll be rollin in dough! Thanks Wii for giving us an audience who is willig to accept this!

whoisryanmack

No that is BS, did you even read my post? Those games you refer to NONE of them have passed the 70,000 mark with the average of them being around 35,000, while the good ones past the quarter million mark *which I prooved*. It takes 150,000 copies sold to break the mark if production budget *which I also prooved*. And if your games sells more then 35,000 copies you automatically made MORE profit then the previous cruddy games did. So Sonic and the Secret Rings turned in over 7 million MORE in profit then the cruddy game did *assuming cruddy game took 2 million to make a Sonic took 7 million to make*. And the thing is Sonic only took a couple more months to make then that cruddy game. Now add on to a game like Rayman that had time put into and sold over a million....well you get the picture. I explained this in my first post, so you obviously didn't read it did you?

Again mindless rants of fanboys who refuse to read the initial post.

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

Wow. This thread is still kicking?

... and I seeDencore is dishing out some logic. mmmm delicious logic.

Jandurin

Ooooooh. I think you just forgot where you are right now. :P

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

Dencore

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more. Now, the same doesn't go with Wii. You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii. Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many years. They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises. Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

[QUOTE="Dencore"]

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

azad_champ

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more. Now, the same doesn't go with Wii. You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii. Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many years. They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises. Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

And yet his intital point still holds. There is nothing proving that the Wii is ruining gaming. Especially when so many 'core' games in the past have failed to sell decently. Yet, gaming wasn't ruined in the past.

[QUOTE="azad_champ"][QUOTE="Dencore"]

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

RahnAetas

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more. Now, the same doesn't go with Wii. You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii. Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many years. They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises. Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

And yet his intital point still holds. There is nothing proving that the Wii is ruining gaming. Especially when so many 'core' games in the past have failed to sell decently. Yet, gaming wasn't ruined in the past.

Just the fact that it is a past-gen console duck-taped with a new controller is proof enough. And while I'm at it, I found this argument in another thread in SW "

"If Nintendo are allowed to dominate the gaming zeitgeist, moving the industry away from pushing the limits of the form to getting your mother to play Wii Bowling, the industry and gaming will be set back by years - a remarkable shame for an experience that is just beginning to hit its prime."

MGS 3 sold like crap.Gamer46

Indeed, with numbers like that, hardcore games are doomed.
/sarcasm

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]MGS 3 sold like crap.Hoffgod

Indeed, with numbers like that, hardcore games are doomed.
/sarcasm

DOOM!

[QUOTE="RahnAetas"][QUOTE="azad_champ"][QUOTE="Dencore"]

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

azad_champ

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more. Now, the same doesn't go with Wii. You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii. Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many years. They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises. Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

And yet his intital point still holds. There is nothing proving that the Wii is ruining gaming. Especially when so many 'core' games in the past have failed to sell decently. Yet, gaming wasn't ruined in the past.

Just the fact that it is a past-gen console duck-taped with a new controlleris proof enough. And while I'm at it, I found this argument in another thread in SW "

"If Nintendo are allowed to dominate the gaming zeitgeist, moving the industry away from pushing the limits of the form to getting your mother to play Wii Bowling, the industry and gaming will be set back by years - a remarkable shame for an experience that is just beginning to hit its prime."

the bolded statement just made you lost your credibility. and also you're a close minded gamer who thinks only for himself. When I see my mother or an adult who never play video games play Wii Sports and other casual games, I feel happy that they are having fun with video games. They play those kinds of games while I play hardcore games. That simple. And also Nintendo are aiming for EVERYONE. Gaming is for everyone. There are many hardcore titles being brought out by Nintendo such as Dencore listed. If Nintendo will lead, the video game industry will expand and with their innovative ideas, games are becoming fresh such as sports games.

The expansion of the video game industry benefits the small time devs and companies who want to create hardcore titles. Do you think every small dev out there are dying for money and so they create casual games aimed for casual and non gamers? No! Most small devs out there desire to create a hardcore title and with the expensive dev cost of PS3 and Xbox360, they will create hardcore games instead for the wii.

[QUOTE="Dencore"]

Well this is intresting, it seems that since I went back to posting all the fanboys ran away. I wonder why? Maybe it is because I prooved them wrong and prooved that they pulled statements completly out of their arse's?

Whatever just keep bumping this thread guys so we can laugh at all the people who don't read the initial post or those in denial.

Anyway I'm going to work now so I won't be back in a while. :)

azad_champ

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more. Now, the same doesn't go with Wii. You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii. Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many years. They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises. Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

Say hello to Disaster: Day of Crisis and Project HAMMER. Porject HAMMER is on hold and not cancelled for Disaster: Day of Crisis. Nintendo just bought Monolith Soft and dont say Monolith Soft will make a mini game, casual game. Nintendo also said they wil revive a long dead franchise. With MP3, the last of the trilogy of the Prime series, almost out, Retro will make another game and again dont say they will make mini game, casual game.

How come I lost my credibility?! that was fact that I stated. I'm not saying that casuals shouldn't play games, but the way i see is that Wii has focused more on casual people and have forgotten about their core players. Yes, I know, the big three. But just as I had said before: Nintendo needs to make new hardcore IP's. it feels that they aren't even trying sometimes. You mentioned that Wii gives room to small devs but the fact is that Nintendo disses small devs. Those who did Flow went to to Ninty first but they were rejected. Then they went to Sony and they loved their ideas. Same goes with Littlebigplanet makers. Sony are the ones being innovative this generation. They had the balls to make the most fully-fledged console ever seen and are now making LBP and Eye of Judgemtwich targets BOTH casuals and hardcore. Now that's something Ninty has to improve.

How come I lost my credibility?! that was fact that I stated. I'm not saying that casuals shouldn't play games, but the way i see is that Wii has focused more on casual people and have forgotten about their core players. Yes, I know, the big three. But just as I had said before: Nintendo needs to make new hardcore IP's. it feels that they aren't even trying sometimes. You mentioned that Wii gives room to small devs but the fact is that Nintendo disses small devs. Those who did Flow went to to Ninty first but they were rejected. Then they went to Sony and they loved their ideas. Same goes with Littlebigplanet makers. Sony are the ones being innovative this generation. They had the balls to make the most fully-fledged console ever seen and are now making LBP and Eye of Judgemtwich targets BOTH casuals and hardcore. Now that's something Ninty has to improve.

azad_champ

You lost your credibility because you said the wii is PAST-GEN. Did you read my last post? Please read it. Retro Studios, Monolith Soft,....

[QUOTE="azad_champ"]

How come I lost my credibility?! that was fact that I stated. I'm not saying that casuals shouldn't play games, but the way i see is that Wii has focused more on casual people and have forgotten about their core players. Yes, I know, the big three. But just as I had said before: Nintendo needs to make new hardcore IP's. it feels that they aren't even trying sometimes. You mentioned that Wii gives room to small devs but the fact is that Nintendo disses small devs. Those who did Flow went to to Ninty first but they were rejected. Then they went to Sony and they loved their ideas. Same goes with Littlebigplanet makers. Sony are the ones being innovative this generation. They had the balls to make the most fully-fledged console ever seen and are now making LBP and Eye of Judgemtwich targets BOTH casuals and hardcore. Now that's something Ninty has to improve.

lordlors

You lost your credibility because you said the wii is PAST-GEN. Did you read my last post? Please read it. Retro Studios, Monolith Soft,....

Fine! "New-gen", whatever makes you sleep better at nights.

It's a pretty solid argument if you actually read his post and are smarter than a 6th grader.

Anyways, who listens to cows now anyways? Do I hear a Xbox 1.5? LOL

How come I lost my credibility?! that was fact that I stated. I'm not saying that casuals shouldn't play games, but the way i see is that Wii has focused more on casual people and have forgotten about their core players. Yes, I know, the big three. But just as I had said before: Nintendo needs to make new hardcore IP's. it feels that they aren't even trying sometimes. You mentioned that Wii gives room to small devs but the fact is that Nintendo disses small devs. Those who did Flow went to to Ninty first but they were rejected. Then they went to Sony and they loved their ideas. Same goes with Littlebigplanet makers. Sony are the ones being innovative this generation. They had the balls to make the most fully-fledged console ever seen and are now making LBP and Eye of Judgemtwich targets BOTH casuals and hardcore. Now that's something Ninty has to improve.

azad_champ

You lost your credibility because your statement has *nothing* to do with the point of the thread. All the fanboys here are all talking about Wii this and Wii that and quality of games when it is compleately irrevellent to the main arguement of the thread itself.

So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?funnymario

I suggest you read the OP slowly, and carefully.

Sales... again?

It's because of its sales that it is ruining gaming. If enough devs become greedy (publishers actually), they'd just churn out shovelware after shovelware of crappy minigames. The epic games would die out if they don't make the cash.

NobuoMusicMaker

Did you actually READ the post??? Man, first you say Guitar Hero sucks and now this!?!? You have zero credibility now that your Luongo sig's gone.

So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?funnymario

[QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?Hoffgod

Is lousily actaully a word?