Wii is ruining gaming? The Official Ownage to Wii Haters *requests sticky*

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?Eponique

Is lousily actaully a word?

No. Considering they're basing it off lousy, which in sense would mean the same thing as lousily would if it existed.

[QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?Hoffgod

Good Wii games are selling VERY well. RE:4 has over 300,000 for being out just one month that very good, Madden 07 got great reviews (and it wasn't even online), Zelda TP, Super Paper Mario, Mario Part 8 (its fun try it), etc. are all selling well because they are good game.

Every council has crap games and guess what?....they sell like crap too. :roll:

As soon as the third party devs get some solid games out there this wont be an issue.

DOA4 Sold over a Million. And the games you listed are casual games, Nintendo is concentrating on NON-games...SpaceDragonMan

ROFL so now there's ANOTHER genre called "non-games"!?!?!?

You people really give me a laugh sometimes!

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?umcommon

Good Wii games are selling VERY well. RE:4 has over 300,000 for being out just one month that very good, Madden 07 got great reviews (and it wasn't even online), Zelda TP, Super Paper Mario, Mario Part 8 (its fun try it), etc. are all selling well because they are good game.

Every council has crap games and guess what?....they sell like crap too. :roll:

As soon as the third party devs get some solid games out there this wont be an issue.

Please edit your post and take MP8 out. Seriously, before someone notices.

[QUOTE="umcommon"]

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?0starter0

Good Wii games are selling VERY well. RE:4 has over 300,000 for being out just one month that very good, Madden 07 got great reviews (and it wasn't even online), Zelda TP, Super Paper Mario, Mario Part 8 (its fun try it), etc. are all selling well because they are good game.

Every council has crap games and guess what?....they sell like crap too. :roll:

As soon as the third party devs get some solid games out there this wont be an issue.

Please edit your post and take MP8 out. Seriously, before someone notices.

Mario Part 8 was fun, whatever the 8th part of Mario was.

[QUOTE="umcommon"]

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?0starter0

Good Wii games are selling VERY well. RE:4 has over 300,000 for being out just one month that very good, Madden 07 got great reviews (and it wasn't even online), Zelda TP, Super Paper Mario, Mario Part 8 (its fun try it), etc. are all selling well because they are good game.

Every council has crap games and guess what?....they sell like crap too. :roll:

As soon as the third party devs get some solid games out there this wont be an issue.

Please edit your post and take MP8 out. Seriously, before someone notices.

[QUOTE="0starter0"][QUOTE="umcommon"]

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="funnymario"]So the Wii couldn't destroy gaming because half the games are selling really lousily?Hoffgod

Good Wii games are selling VERY well. RE:4 has over 300,000 for being out just one month that very good, Madden 07 got great reviews (and it wasn't even online), Zelda TP, Super Paper Mario, Mario Part 8 (its fun try it), etc. are all selling well because they are good game.

Every council has crap games and guess what?....they sell like crap too. :roll:

As soon as the third party devs get some solid games out there this wont be an issue.

Please edit your post and take MP8 out. Seriously, before someone notices.

MP8 got a bad review but its still fun if you have some friends to play it with

[QUOTE="SpaceDragonMan"]DOA4 Sold over a Million. And the games you listed are casual games, Nintendo is concentrating on NON-games...svetzenlether

ROFL so now there's ANOTHER genre called "non-games"!?!?!?

You people really give me a laugh sometimes!

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more.

You do know that not ONE of those games were released0 7 months into the PS2's launch right, actually only one of them were announced. :|

Now, the same doesn't go with Wii.

Yeah it does.

You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii.

:lol:

Nintendo still hasn't made a new hardcore IP in many year

They do sequels based of 15 year old franchises. As a gamer I want a new and fresh experience along with the long-running franchises.

I'm sorry? Because these are some announced for the Wii....shall I even bring on the DS?

Almost all of PS3's games coming out this year are new IPs. Your theory doesn't hold.

:lol: I was talking about new IP's? If you want to get technicle the Wii has more exclusice original third party IP's announced then the PS3.

azad_champ

Hmm more fanboyism in this thread.

How many pages is this now?

And not ONE argument that actually has base that counters my initial post.

What does this say?

[QUOTE="azad_champ"]

Your statement isn't that great, just so you know. We know that crappy games sold well on PS2 but that console gave birth to franchises such as:God of War,Devil May cry, Onimusha and Ratchet and Clank with much more.

You do know that not ONE of those games were released0 7 months into the PS2's launch right, actually only one of them were announced. :|

Now, the same doesn't go with Wii.

Yeah it does.

You said that developers will probably focus on harcore games for Wii in the future but a article in Gametrailers states that many unannounced Wii games are casual and that's the focus of the developers when they create for Wii.

:lol:

And not ONE argument that actually has base that counters my initial post.

What does this say?

Dencore

yeah the hardcore gamer will still have his expereince in the PC,X360 and the PS3. and nintendo will continue to address a different audience. It was obvious that nintendo didn't want to directly compete with MS and sony.No harm donein my opinion.Great_Ragnarok

This thread is amazing. Now I have maximum posts in one page at max so right now there's 8 pages. But from what I can imagine is that there has to be at the least 20 pages on here *could someone tell me how many there really are?* and still not ONE person has countered my arguement enough just to REPLY to my counter post to them. NOT ONE person has even, not one has even so much as scratched the armor of my original post. What does this say? Well over a dozen pages and noone has countered it. This thread prooves a solid fact that the Wii isn't doing anything to gaming that is negative software wise.

This thread is amazing. Now I have maximum posts in one page at max so right now there's 8 pages. But from what I can imagine is that there has to be at the least 20 pages on here *could someone tell me how many there really are?* and still not ONE person has countered my arguement enough just to REPLY to my counter post to them. NOT ONE person has even, not one has even so much as scratched the armor of my original post. What does this say? Well over a dozen pages and noone has countered it. This thread prooves a solid fact that the Wii isn't doing anything to gaming that is negative software wise.

Dencore

great thread TC. this should be stickied. Stupid fanboys are just making things up to bash the wii. they cant accept reality.

This thread is amazing. Now I have maximum posts in one page at max so right now there's 8 pages. But from what I can imagine is that there has to be at the least 20 pages on here *could someone tell me how many there really are?* and still not ONE person has countered my arguement enough just to REPLY to my counter post to them. NOT ONE person has even, not one has even so much as scratched the armor of my original post. What does this say? Well over a dozen pages and noone has countered it. This thread prooves a solid fact that the Wii isn't doing anything to gaming that is negative software wise.

Dencore

Am I the only one who reads the sales charts?

Madden - 4.46 million copies

Hannah Montana Over half a million copies

50 Cent BulletProof almost a million and a half copies

Spongebob SquarePants Super Sponge almost 2 million copies

Mario Party 5 over 2 million copies

Poke'mon Colloseum sold 2 and a half million copies *selling more then twice the amount as Revolution in Japan*

Seriously these games have always sold more then our games and have always been cheaper to make. We have NEVER been the focus for the industry, if someone says different then they themself are a casual. Panzer Dragoon Orta failed to break past 150,000 mark, Phoenix Wright just breaks past the 100,000 mark in America, Disgaea barely or doesn't at all break the 100,000 mark, the only 2D Fighter this gen to break 150,000 copies was Street Fighter Anniversary Collection, Tekken Dark Resurrection has only sold 320,000 copies. We aren't the focus our games have never sold that good. Yes their are exceptions but they come in the midlife of the system. The 360 only has 4 million selling core games *dead rising, lost planet *disagree but most agree so...*, Gears of War, and Call of Duty 2 out of it's release, and the Wii already has 2 *Zelda and SPM*.

Dead or Alive 4 failed to break 500,000

Condemened only managed to sell 320,000 copies

Kameo only sold 310,000 copies

How is this remotely different to this list.

Sonic 310,000 copies

Trauma Center around 150,000 copies

Resident Evil 4 300,000 copies *and still growing*

Dragon Quest Swords 310,000 on it's debut week

Now you want to see something that will blow your mind?

Prince of Persia Rival Swords 90,000 copies shipped, but failed to break the shipment *sold around 52,000 copies*

SSX Blur disappeared after only 32,000 copies were sold

Busta Move Bash disappeared from list when it had less then 30,000 copies sold

Blazing Angels of WWII for the Wii, failed to break it's first 50,000 shipment

Cooking Mama disappeared from list when 42,000 copies were only sold

These are the games :lol:!

This seriously has to be some kind of sick joke, these are the games that you complain about? These horirble selling failures on this list....and what's this they will destory gaming forever? :lol:! It doesn't even matter if this is VG Charts these games could double the sales and they'd still be abysmal. What the hell would they shift from selling half-to over a million copies without even breaking 100,000 :lol: That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Anyone who thinks they'll make more money this way knows nothing about development. It takes less then 150,000 copies sold to cover 7 million in development. So are these developers going to settle for less money? What a joke of an assumption.

And if you look at the games that have sold well with first parties *Add Monkey Ball and Red Steel and Rayman to that list too* all of them but Rayman have been "traditional games". So if anything the Wii is prooving that casual games and port won't take over the industry. :|

As for ports and spin-offs not leading to real games?

Take a look at this:

Sold good so...

This was annouced.

Sold good so...

And that's just not it, since these games have sold well devs. are taking the Wii more serious.

Look at these announcements.

Tales Wii

Trauma Center New Blood

Nitrobike

This is seriously getting way out of hand here.

Dencore

No ones arguing coz that mite be true?

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]yeah the hardcore gamer will still have his expereince in the PC,X360 and the PS3. and nintendo will continue to address a different audience. It was obvious that nintendo didn't want to directly compete with MS and sony.No harm donein my opinion.grapefruit21

What do you mean by that???

[QUOTE="grapefruit21"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]yeah the hardcore gamer will still have his expereince in the PC,X360 and the PS3. and nintendo will continue to address a different audience. It was obvious that nintendo didn't want to directly compete with MS and sony.No harm donein my opinion.Great_Ragnarok

What do you mean by that???

Someone who didn't read the first post. :P

Man I want a panzer dragoon orta sequel so badly! I honestly thought it did better than 150 000. btw VG chartz are not very accurate.Great_Ragnarok

It doesn't matter the games could be doubled and the traditional games could be halfed the sales would still be pathetic with the traditional games massive outselling.

And VGcharts corrects its previous weeks when the NPD/Media Create comes out so this is very accurate.

I mean PDOGreat_Ragnarok

Never played the game but always wanted to. It's a shame that it flopped.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]yeah the hardcore gamer will still have his expereince in the PC,X360 and the PS3. and nintendo will continue to address a different audience. It was obvious that nintendo didn't want to directly compete with MS and sony.No harm donein my opinion.grapefruit21

I always like reading your post they are always well thought out and they always bring up a good point. This is the problem though, these games are hurting the industry. Sure Its not as bad as we think NOW but what aboutin a couple of years?

What about a couple of years? Look at the DS it has titles for casual and the hardest of the core. Companies like Activision and THQ always make cash-ins. Even with the PS3 and 360, and even if they make a game that is amongst a "core" genre it will still suck ass same thing with Ubisoft, Koei, and EA for most of their part. Dedicated devs don't give a crud what sells they make what THEY want to make. Unforutnately the PS3 and 360 pretty much killed all of them and forced them to make pick up and play arcade games. However the Wii is different by offering them a retail enviornment. This is supported by No More Heroes, Kings Den, Space Station Tycoon, and many others.

Finally that still complelty fails as our games still sell alot. Look at the charts the Wii just launched and the spin-offs sold almost half a million, just imagine the "real" games when they come out. Companies won't "abbandon" us that's just stupid. Tales, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, etc. all these games sell over a million copies. Now why would companies abbandon them when they are huge money makers? Also added to the fact that casuals don't buy nearly as many games as we do. So what devs. are going to stop a franchise that reels in literally millions especially when dev. costs are much lower then before?

These games are slowly taking over the gaming marketand the Wii is helping to contribute to this.

No they aren't traditional games aren't selling less, actually with the Wii they're selling more. It's called market expansion. Sofware sales are higher because of market expansion.

this is a Machine purly designed for casual play for games likeWii sportsand so on.

Just like Metroid Prime 3?

Its not a good thing these are selling more then "hardcore games" because devs.

Prooven wrong

see this as a way to make a quick buckI mean its great that the developers who make these games are making good money, but why should I care? Why so theycan make more of these games? So that I can be pushed further and further away from the target market?I mean its not like these games havent always been around, as youpointedout they have been around for awhile, butthat dosent mean I liked them then either. I think the problem now though is that they are progressing at an alarming rate,thanks to the Wii.

Did you even read my post? All those games sold like crud. And not only that I prooved that the traditional games and ground up games sold much more then those games and all made way more profit then those cruddy games even when over estimating the development costs for the ground up games and pretending that it costs $0 to make one of those cash-ins. Do people even read my initial post or just skim through it?

To me personaly, I think Nintendo is sellingout(this is just my opinion). If anything Nintendo is like Metallica, they were great in the early days but slowly they became soft and soon became nothing more then sellouts(I mean that both ways they madegood $$but at the same time gave the bird to the original fans).

Again wrong Metallica has always sucked ass.

sparkypants

And...Cows are female. Idk about sheep but cows are girls. I would think they'd start calling themselves bulls.

frodnekcod

Sheep are female, the males are called Rams.

Only male species is hermits and lemmings. :P

[QUOTE="sparkypants"] I always like reading your post they are always well thought out and they always bring up a good point. This is the problem though, these games are hurting the industry. Sure Its not as bad as we think NOW but what aboutin a couple of years?

What about a couple of years?

In a couple of years your gonna see a hell of allot more of these games

These games are slowly taking over the gaming marketand the Wii is helping to contribute to this.

No they aren't traditional games aren't selling less, actually with the Wii they're selling more. It's called market expansion

List some because really all I see are more and more remakes and party games

this is a Machine purly designed for casual play for games likeWii sportsand so on.

Just like Metroid Prime 3?

I'm not gonna lie that game does look cool so I will try it but you haven't played it how do you know the controls haven't been simplified? I mean look at mario kart Wii it was already simple for casuals to pick up and it had items to help you beat the "pros" but Nintendo felt they needed to add the wheel and make it "easier for beginers to beat the pros" in the words of Reggie.

Its not a good thing these are selling more then "hardcore games" because devs.

Prooven wrong

Your right they aren't sellingto much but enough thatwe HAVE been seeing more and more of then around during the past 8 or so months

see this as a way to make a quick buckI mean its great that the developers who make these games are making good money, but why should I care? Why so theycan make more of these games? So that I can be pushed further and further away from the target market?I mean its not like these games havent always been around, as youpointedout they have been around for awhile, butthat dosent mean I liked them then either. I think the problem now though is that they are progressing at an alarming rate,thanks to the Wii.

Did you even read my post? All those games sold like crud. And not only that I prooved that the traditional games and ground up games sold much more then those games and all made way more profit then those cruddy games even when over estimating the development costs for the ground up games and pretending that it costs $0 to make one of those cash-ins. Do people even read my initial post or just skim through it?

Yes I did

To me personaly, I think Nintendo is sellingout(this is just my opinion). If anything Nintendo is like Metallica, they were great in the early days but slowly they became soft and soon became nothing more then sellouts(I mean that both ways they madegood $$but at the same time gave the bird to the original fans).

Again wrong Metallica has always sucked ass.

HEY! Master of Puppets was(key word there)a cool song...but that unforgiven song...now thats crap!

Dencore

great point as always dencore, i'm a ps3 fan myself but the unwarranted whining about the wii is pathetic NorthlandMan

If I had an HDTV and more money I would actually consider getting a PS3.

It looks like it could be the "niche" console of this gen. Similar to the Xbox *for the first 2 years anyway* of last gen or the Saturn of the gen before that or the TurboGraffix of the gen before that gen.

There are so many core JRPG's coming to it. :)

In a couple of years your gonna see a hell of allot more of these games

Already explained devs won't abbandoned the millions they make from us.

List some because really all I see are more and more remakes and party games

The selling games are in the first post

I'm not gonna lie that game does look cool so I will try it but you haven't played it how do you know the controls haven't been simplified? I mean look at mario kart Wii it was already simple for casuals to pick up and it had items to help you beat the "pros" but Nintendo felt they needed to add the wheel and make it "easier for beginers to beat the pros" in the words of Reggie.

What? All he said is that theres a periphial coming out that takes shape of a steering wheel so it's easier to manuever. Where did you get that from?

Its not a good thing these are selling more then "hardcore games" because devs.

Your right they aren't sellingto much but enough thatwe HAVE been seeing more and more of then around during the past 8 or so months

The system is only 8 months old of course you'd see alot counting the early release of those failures. Don't compare the entire systems life-span, but as of recent. Compare it to 3 weeks ago to now. We have the Martha game, Blocks, and Wii Fit *which shouldn't count since it was already announced last year*. For gamers we have Tales of Symphonia 2, Trauma Center: New Blood, Nitrobike, and Mario Kart Wii.

HEY! Master of Puppets was(key word there)a cool song...but that unforgiven song...now thats crap!

STONE>Metallica

Rage>Metallica

[QUOTE="sparkypants"]

In a couple of years your gonna see a hell of allot more of these games

Already explained devs won't abbandoned the millions they make from us.

List some because really all I see are more and more remakes and party games

The selling games are in the first post

I'm not gonna lie that game does look cool so I will try it but you haven't played it how do you know the controls haven't been simplified? I mean look at mario kart Wii it was already simple for casuals to pick up and it had items to help you beat the "pros" but Nintendo felt they needed to add the wheel and make it "easier for beginers to beat the pros" in the words of Reggie.

What? All he said is that theres a periphial coming out that takes shape of a steering wheel so it's easier to manuever. Where did you get that from?

Its not a good thing these are selling more then "hardcore games" because devs.

Your right they aren't sellingto much but enough thatwe HAVE been seeing more and more of then around during the past 8 or so months

The system is only 8 months old of course you'd see alot counting the early release of those failures. Don't compare the entire systems life-span, but as of recent. Compare it to 3 weeks ago to now. We have the Martha game, Blocks, and Wii Fit *which shouldn't count since it was already announced last year*. For gamers we have Tales of Symphonia 2, Trauma Center: New Blood, Nitrobike, and Mario Kart Wii.

HEY! Master of Puppets was(key word there)a cool song...but that unforgiven song...now thats crap!

STONE>Metallica

Rage>Metallica

I agree actually I mean with the "Rage>Metallica" thing XD!

Dencore

[QUOTE="frodnekcod"]

And...Cows are female. Idk about sheep but cows are girls. I would think they'd start calling themselves bulls.

BlazeDragon132

Sheep are female, the males are called Rams.

Only male species is hermits and lemmings. :P

I can't believe this thread got to over 300 posts...there couldn't have been that many arguments, could there? I mean, it was really fact based.

Oh, Fire Emblem is epic too, person like 8 pages ago. That's just the Nintendo franchises too.

Listen to their guitarists solo.

Anyway it's like I said this whole "Wii will ruin gaming" just doesn't add up. I mean look at Japan. The core gaming market is extremly week and the casual market greatly outshies it like 10 to 1, but devs still put in a continious flow of games for the gamer because dev costs are low and they are dedicated to make it.

So if core gaming is still alive in Japan where it's never been lower or more outshadowed, why here in America where it's never been higher then anywhere else in the world at any time, including adding up ratios with Japan. There's no way dedicated devs or just regular devs in general will turn a cheek to a million in sales. If SEGA didn't do it when Mushi King sold millions more then Shenmue and Capcom didn't do it when making Lost Planet when their GBA games were selling very well, why the heck would they do that now when the core games are selling more then ever?

However I must pay my respect to you sparkypants since you are the only user in this thread to have an argument get further then 1 reply. :)

[QUOTE="BlazeDragon132"][QUOTE="frodnekcod"]

And...Cows are female. Idk about sheep but cows are girls. I would think they'd start calling themselves bulls.

Lyude77

Sheep are female, the males are called Rams.

Only male species is hermits and lemmings. :P

I can't believe this thread got to over 300 posts...there couldn't have been that many arguments, could there? I mean, it was really fact based.

Oh, Fire Emblem is epic too, person like 8 pages ago. That's just the Nintendo franchises too.

There weren't really any arguments *unless you count sparkypants 2 posts*, mostly just a bunch of fanboys that got shut down. And No after all this not one person has prooved me wrong.

Listen to their guitarists solo.

Anyway it's like I said this whole "Wii will ruin gaming" just doesn't add up. I mean look at Japan. The core gaming market is extremly week and the casual market greatly outshies it like 10 to 1, but devs still put in a continious flow of games for the gamer because dev costs are low and they are dedicated to make it.

So if core gaming is still alive in Japan where it's never been lower or more outshadowed, why here in America where it's never been higher then anywhere else in the world at any time, including adding up ratios with Japan. There's no way dedicated devs or just regular devs in general will turn a cheek to a million in sales.

However I must pay my respect to you sparkypants since you are the only user in this thread to have an argument get further then 1 reply. :)

Dencore

Very Nice XD

I guess you are right for the most part though I still find it scary to see alot of casual games suddenly appear and I do feel sorry for the Wii because its getting all the blame(Im Sorry but Sceneit on the 360 is just wrong).

Oh and thank you :)

Did I just read a post that said Nintendo making the interface more simple is going to make casuals beat hardcores at Mario Kart?

That doesn't make any damn sense. Hey, here's a clue: the interface for driving a vehicle in real life is simple enough for the dumbest of human beings to operate. Does that make it any easier for them to beat Jeff Gordon in a race?

Did I just read a post that said Nintendo making the interface more simple is going to make casuals beat hardcores at Mario Kart?

That doesn't make any damn sense. Hey, here's a clue: the interface for driving a vehicle in real life is simple enough for the dumbest of human beings to operate. Does that make it any easier for them to beat Jeff Gordon in a race?

Smoke_ManMuscle

I was making a point that Nintendo is simplifing too many games so much so that they're simplifing games like MK that dont even need it they are simple enough. Oh and reggie did say it was to make it easier for the casuals to win agianst "pro"(gamer that is not someone actually from NASCAR) Oh and Yes some casual could beat Jeff Gordan, because I dont think hes use to getting hit by turtle shells in a real life race(that and hes probably never played before :P)

[QUOTE="NorthlandMan"]great point as always dencore, i'm a ps3 fan myself but the unwarranted whining about the wii is pathetic Dencore

If I had an HDTV and more money I would actually consider getting a PS3.

It looks like it could be the "niche" console of this gen. Similar to the Xbox *for the first 2 years anyway* of last gen or the Saturn of the gen before that or the TurboGraffix of the gen before that gen.

There are so many core JRPG's coming to it. :)

There weren't really any arguments *unless you count sparkypants 2 posts*, mostly just a bunch of fanboys that got shut down. And No after all this not one person has prooved me wrong.

Dencore

Very Nice XD

I guess you are right for the most part though I still find it scary to see alot of casual games suddenly appear and I do feel sorry for the Wii because its getting all the blame(Im Sorry but Sceneit on the 360 is just wrong).

Oh and thank you :)

sparkypants

It's just a market expansion. Think of it as the original Playstation *without SONY telling developers to stop making 2D games*. The only reason why we see less games is because of high development costs, so devs are forced to make the same crud over and over again.

And just what would have become of Western gaming if we followed the high development cost for flash footsteps especially without expanding the market?

Well let's learn from Japan.

The legend of Japan once being the God country of gaming isn't some urban legend, just look at this chart.

As you can see there are plenty of quality titles.

Just what happened. Gamers there asked for more of everything, cooler looking background, more FMV, more licensed titles, etc. Eventually it came to nothing but remakes and remakes and sequels and sequels. Just look at the software sales between this and the other one. Hell don't just look at that, look at the games!

Luckly Nintendo came in and saved the market, but do to so much damage their are much fewer core gamers their then before. So the few core gamers in Japan has nothing to do with Nintendo, but themselves.

[QUOTE="Dencore"]

There weren't really any arguments *unless you count sparkypants 2 posts*, mostly just a bunch of fanboys that got shut down. And No after all this not one person has prooved me wrong.

subrosian

You've already screwed up before starting the argumen, not only explained that those are SOME of the good selling third party games, but also I listed more then three games. And how is it "self-contradictory"?

[QUOTE="Smoke_ManMuscle"]

Did I just read a post that said Nintendo making the interface more simple is going to make casuals beat hardcores at Mario Kart?

That doesn't make any damn sense. Hey, here's a clue: the interface for driving a vehicle in real life is simple enough for the dumbest of human beings to operate. Does that make it any easier for them to beat Jeff Gordon in a race?

sparkypants

I was making a point that Nintendo is simplifing too many games so much so that they're simplifing games like MK that dont even need it they are simple enough. Oh and reggie did say it was to make it easier for the casuals to win agianst "pro"(gamer that is not someone actually from NASCAR) Oh and Yes some casual could beat Jeff Gordan, because I dont think hes use to getting hit by turtle shells in a real life race(that and hes probably never played before :P)

No, you were making an assumption that the simplification of the interface of Mario Kart is the same as the simplification of the game of Mario Kart. You believe that the game is going to drastically change for the worse just because Nintendo slapped a plastic wheel around the wiimote.

It will not be easier for a casual to beat a hardcore gamer in Mario Kart, no matter how the game is controlled. Mario Kart is not a game designed for the non-gamer who only understands Wii Sports. It'll still be Mario Kart and it'll still be dominated by those who play it most rigorously.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Dencore"]

There weren't really any arguments *unless you count sparkypants 2 posts*, mostly just a bunch of fanboys that got shut down. And No after all this not one person has prooved me wrong.

Dencore

You've already screwed up before starting an argument.

[QUOTE="Dencore"]

There weren't really any arguments *unless you count sparkypants 2 posts*, mostly just a bunch of fanboys that got shut down. And No after all this not one person has prooved me wrong.

subrosian

You seem to have the gist of the point. The simplist way to put it would be that casual games have consistantly and repeatedly sold better than core games before the Wii ever came into existance. In a twist of irony (or contradiction) the Wii's core titles are doing better than the causal "gaming destorying" titles, which is the opposite of what historically happens.

The way the points are setup, the Wii could be argued to be saving gaming since core titles sell better on it than casual games. But that's not the arguement. Which is (and people keep missing) is that causal games had a stronger showing and sold better, but gaming wasn't destroyed last generation.

Course, this could be wrong, but so far no one has shown anything to prove this otherwise (aside from looking into the future with their crystal balls)

EDIT:

I should also point out that although the Wii does have high selling casual games, the ones people claim is destroying gaming are generally the one's not selling well (like Cooking Mama) Also, that the Wii has more higher selling casual games than core games does *not* defeat the orginal point that casual games have in the past outsold core games.

Then explain what your core argument is Dencore. I'm giving you the respect and courtesy of presenting your arguments in a full, perfect, undiluted form, and correcting me before we even begin. I say two games because Super Paper Mario and Twilight Princess are the only million-sellers on the Wii I consider to be core titles.

But please, correct me, what is your core argument, and its supporting points, in summation?
subrosian