Will you still pay for Xbox Live next gen?

[QUOTE="erwingameon"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] Look at my post that you quote,look at the part where it say it prevented many from playing i did not say it prevented all,and yes i read all 3 of the links and quotes,it was down not for every single one but was many could not play. And keep waiting on my gamercard....loltormentos

Just the phrase '' prevented many from playing '' proves you wrong since if the service was completely down nobody would be able to play, wich is what you've been saying all this time.

And yes, during the Christmas holiday of 2007-2008 some people could not sign in (sometimes) to XBL due to an unexpected high increase in users. s problem however was confined mosly to the US since in Europe we had hardly any problems at all, and i could sign in no problem the entire time.

Lol, they use the phrase up and down, wich means not all the time.

And i dare say that Europe comes rather close to the same ammount of player as the US.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="RoboThreat"] it was having shortages, if XBL was "down" it would have effected all XBL members. It was only a handful of people that the service was going up & down on, unlike PSN where it was down for almost a month 1/2. You only read what you wanna read.erwingameon

Lol, seems you don't know the difference between a services being down and a sevices having a few issues. On PSN nobody could do anything for over a month. On XBL maybe 5% of peole worldwide could not sign in like 10% of the time. That's a big difference.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="erwingameon"]

Just the phrase '' prevented many from playing '' proves you wrong since if the service was completely down nobody would be able to play, wich is what you've been saying all this time.

And yes, during the Christmas holiday of 2007-2008 some people could not sign in (sometimes) to XBL due to an unexpected high increase in users. s problem however was confined mosly to the US since in Europe we had hardly any problems at all, and i could sign in no problem the entire time.

erwingameon

Lol, they use the phrase up and down, wich means not all the time.

And i dare say that Europe comes rather close to the same ammount of player as the US.

[QUOTE="erwingameon"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] I read all not what i want to read the word down means down dude,what is the difference if you could not join but another person could.? Yeah for that person it was up for you it was as useless as PSN was,which is why the article say up and down. PSN was completely down,XBL was partially down maybe that could bring and little harmony,either way 24 days out of almost 5 years of gaming online on a free service,for me is ok i can play now again which is what i wanted and still playing free.tormentos

Lol, seems you don't know the difference between a services being down and a sevices having a few issues. On PSN nobody could do anything for over a month. On XBL maybe 5% of peole worldwide could not sign in like 10% of the time. That's a big difference.

Why should i link to anything if you can't provide a link backing up your statements either.

The links you posted only helped make my point instead of backing up yours, haha.

no not with advertisments and what if they raise the price again for some unwanted feature no thanks i m through paying for multiplayer , unless they have a 1 time flat fee--- 50 bucks the whole gen , fine but this yearly thing is out of hand

also if we have to pay again they better just charge us 200 for the console sorry i dont like paying 1000 on a console - and by paying for xbox live i have already done that-games are another story, or controllers and such but multiplayer should be free or they should puit split screen back in

if ps4 is free and wii u is , then nope sorry

@shinrabanshou

Yes, because analogies are meant to be taken as literal. :/

Analogies are supposed to be--in theory anyways--relevant to the situation and not too extreme. :]

Businesses can make as much money as they want, I won't personally support what I view as exorbitant. One doesn't need to be willing to submit to and support any and every business practice to be in favor of enterprise. What a bizarre absolutist view.

65% is exorbitant?

I didn't say anything about giving back to consumers and doing anything for the good of anyone, so you can take your strawman attempted mockery elsewhere.

Oh my, I wasn't aware I struck a nerve. Was only trying to poke a little fun. SW is not always serious business. :]

Just as you're speculating about how necessary the subscription is. The only thing is rather than put a figure to it or provide some sort of source, you provided a list of costs as justification.

Am I? As justification? Or perhaps merely insight to the notion that there's more going on behind the scenes than what SW users give credit for. Perhaps so. :]

Am I? As justification? Or perhaps merely insight to the notion that there's more going on behind the scenes than what SW users give credit for. Perhaps so. :]Stevo_the_gamer

Analogies are supposed to be--in theory anyways--relevant to the situation and not too extreme. :]

65% is exorbitant?

Oh my, I wasn't aware I struck a nerve. Was only trying to poke a little fun. SW is not always serious business. :]Stevo_the_gamer

It's not "extreme," and nowhere did I say the analogy was in relation to profit margins. If you need elaboration on the analogy, then essentially someone took something that's free elsewhere, wrapped it in fancy packaging and convinced people it's better because you're paying for it.

You like to try and strike nerves, it's your thing. Presumably that's why you keep using whatever that smiley is supposed to be. I suppose it's easier than formulating actual counterpoints.

In my view, yes, 65% profit margins are exorbitant for what's being provided. Not sure why you take issue with that, don't particularly care if you do. If you don't think it's exorbitant that's perfectly fine with me.

I don't know why exactly you're trying to be coy. If you want to justify paying for Live Gold, either to yourself or others, just do it.

It's not "extreme," and nowhere did I say the analogy was in relation to profit margins. If you need elaboration on the analogy, then essentially someone took something that's free elsewhere, wrapped it in fancy packaging and convinced people it's better because you're paying for it.

You like to try and strike nerves, it's your thing. Presumably that's why you keep using whatever that smiley is supposed to be. I suppose it's easier than formulating actual counterpoints.

In my view, yes, 65% profit margins are exorbitant for what's being provided. Not sure why you take issue with that, don't particularly care if you do. If you don't think it's exorbitant that's perfectly fine with me.

shinrabanshou

The only justification behind paying for XBL rests behind being able to play games. I wouldn't pay for XBL if Silver offered online gaming--the notion of "attempting to justify" one's purchase is actually a rather humorous one, especially doing it on an internet forum. Again, you were looking (and continue to look) for reasons that do not exist only to pursue your own established goals. I do believe a wise man once called something similar to that... confirmation bias? :]

Let me ask you this now, do you use Windows or Apple based software on your computer? Or do you run Linux? Do you use Gimp (or other based software similar to this) or do you use Adobe Photoshop, or perhaps you use Microsoft Office for your word documents, or exel--instead of using something like Open Office. I think you get what I'm aiming at when you say someone took something that's free elsewhere, and wrapped it in real expensive and super fancy packaging.

You don't like smileys? Serious busines indeed. LOL

That's understandable--but how consistent is that view? Does that 65% expand into other venues or is that purely limited to XBL? Take video game sales for individual titles for example. Did Naughty Dog make too much profit off Uncharted 2? They invested 20 million into the video game, and the game ended up selling over four million copies. Just in the first week they tripled their investment (assuming each title sold for 60 USD and ignoring international based pricing for arguments sake) ... is that too much?

The only justification behind paying for XBL rests behind being able to play games. I wouldn't pay for XBL if Silver offered online gaming--the notion of "attempting to justify" one's purchase is actually a rather humorous one, especially doing it on an internet forum. Again, you were looking (and continue to look) for reasons that do not exist only to pursue your own established goals. I do believe a wise man once called something similar to that... confirmation bias? :]

Let me ask you this now, do you use Windows or Apple based software on your computer? Or do you run Linux? Do you use Gimp (or other based software similar to this) or do you use Adobe Photoshop, or perhaps you use Microsoft Office for your word documents, or exel--instead of using something like Open Office. I think you get what I'm aiming at when you say someone took something that's free elsewhere, and wrapped it in real expensive and super fancy packaging.

You don't like smileys? Serious busines indeed. LOL

That's understandable--but how consistent is that view? Does that 65% expand into other venues or is that purely limited to XBL? Take video game sales for individual titles for example. Did Naughty Dog make too much profit off Uncharted 2? They invested 20 million into the video game, and the game ended up selling over four million copies. Just in the first week they tripled their investment (assuming each title sold for 60 USD and ignoring international based pricing for arguments sake) ... is that too much?

Stevo_the_gamer

It's inconsistent and entirely subjective, I thought that was pretty clear in the multiple statements about value being subjective - I'll make no bones about it - as in what you've quoted "for what's being provided." I would personally consider paying the price paid with the margins entailed exorbitant, considering one is doing so largely, if not only, to unlock the online component of something or things you've already purchased and paid for prior. That doesn't mean it's limited to Live, it's limited to particular contexts. If PSN or whatever network functionality the WiiU had charge a fee with similar gross margins under similar context it would also be exorbitant.

Are Adobe charging to unlock portions of a third parties product offering? Are Adobe charging for a Creative Suite of their own intellectual property? Are Adobe further supplementing their income through other revenue streams in-built into the product? All of this plays into subjective value, all of it contributes to whether or not profit margins are excessive, in my view.

The example doesn't particularly work as you're mixing profit margins and return on investment as if they're equivalents. There are probably better examples to use, and to varying degrees I'd be willing to support the product. And again, if others are happy to support a product wherein I do not see adequate value proposition, more power to them.

I'll be paying for it next gen.I don't have any plans to buy a PS4, having not owned a PS3.My XBOX Live experience has been good for the two years I've had it.I prefer the XBOX exclusives and don't mind a couple dollars a month to play them online, since, given the amount of time I play on Live, its per hour payment is cents per hour.

it's limited to particular contexts.

Are Adobe charging to unlock portions of a third parties product offering? Are Adobe charging for a Creative Suite of their own intellectual property? Are Adobe further supplementing their income through other revenue streams in-built into the product? All of this plays into subjective value, all of it contributes to whether or not profit margins are excessive, in my view.

The example doesn't particularly work as you're mixing profit margins and return on investment as if they're equivalents. There are probably better examples to use, and to varying degrees I'd be willing to support the product. And again, if others are happy to support a product wherein I do not see adequate value proposition, more power to them.

shinrabanshou

That's fair enough.

I am not aware of any of that--I was showcasing the notion of having to pay for a product that you can find elsewhere for free.

Then ellaborate on why it doesn't particular work well--does Microsoft not invest into their XBL service? Do they not expect a return out of that? Considering how Uncharted 2 sold over four million copies... that's probably an 800-1000% return. You really don't think that's "too much?"

Before i forget.tormentos..there are many ways to prove if someone owns a 360 and has a XBL gamer tag. Simply post it and we can do a background check on Xbox.com. .lawlessx

SW : Super serial business. :x

gamers need to put their foot down and stop paying for LIVE. There should be a movement next gen : Dont pay for LIVE. I wonder how well that would go.Fuhgeddabouditt

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]gamers need to put their foot down and stop paying for LIVE. There should be a movement next gen : Dont pay for LIVE. I wonder how well that would go.Stevo_the_gamer

They'd have to add something monumental for me to pay (like Onlive type features and other cool innovative stuff). The current features for XBL Gold are not worth it, for me at least. Here's to hoping they add so many features to Gold, they can convert XBL Free to online play! I wanna get some Halo and Gears on, brudda! But, I'm a man and I stand my ground. Won't pay for it, in its current form.

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"][QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]gamers need to put their foot down and stop paying for LIVE. There should be a movement next gen : Dont pay for LIVE. I wonder how well that would go.lawlessx

[QUOTE="Darkslayer16"]

The way Microsoft is going I won't even buy their next console so no.

Phoenix534

Ditto. **** Microsoft.

:lol:

I know right? Were luck if it's not gonna be a repackaged 360.

I'll will not pay for XBL next gen. I'm am not paying any more this gen. Done with the milking.

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

I think;

- PSN will still be free next gen

- MS will always have the better, more rich, more secure operating system on their console

- People think they are paying for "service." XBL is peer to peer. There is no service.

- When you pay for XBL, what you are paying for is development of the console Operating System, which on 360 is so much nicer and smoother

Even tho I am ideologically opposed to the idea of paying for peer-to-peer networking, I will probably still be an Xbox user, and will probably end up paying, because you only live once and epic gaming experiences are part of the sweetness of my life.

tormentos

Not really debateable at all to anybody who is intellectually honest.

I do feel sorry for Sony, you can tell they did their best and produced a high quality product.

But the Xbox OS and XBL system is just head and shoulders above, in a different league.

If it makes you feel any better, Sony usually does a good job on anything it produces.

MS usually produces abortions like Windows Vista and Zune and Windows Phone.

In this one rare case, MS did a great job, and Sony did a slightly less great job.

Who knows maybe next gen console the roles will be reversed, we shall see.

I stopped paying for Live this gen (well actually I still have a few months left) but after that it's done. The ONLY reason people get xbox live is toplay their games online,THAT'S IT. No one buys it for facebook or twitter, nobody buys it to getmap packs and horse armor a month early, and I doubt anyone really buys it for parties and cross chat.

After I got a PS3 I just stopped caring about xbox live totally, PSN does everything that live does except for that party stuff and timed DLC and best of all it does for FREE. I also got into PC gaming this gen and I can do cross chat and parties on there for free too. So I really don't see the value of xbox live , all your paying for is just to access a part of your game that you already paid over your internet connection that you already paid for aswell.

It's all p2p so all i guess that your money is going towards is just timed DLC since parties and cross chat are already free on PC. And on top of it all, they put ads on the dashboard? And now they're bringing interactive ads? How is that a good deal? It's not, trust me. I don't know why the hardcore 360 fanboys defend the price, I think they deserve it to be free just like everyone else's. And I think that the vast majority of 360 owners want it to be free too.

I wonder if Xbox Silver had free multiplayer would anyone buy Gold?

Mplayer (of the old) > XBL.

Doubt it. I have a hard enough time paying for it right now. Doubt I'll resubscribe until MW3 comes out. The PC gives me more than what XBL offers at a 100% discount.

That's fair enough.

I am not aware of any of that--I was showcasing the notion of having to pay for a product that you can find elsewhere for free.

Then ellaborate on why it doesn't particular work well--does Microsoft not invest into their XBL service? Do they not expect a return out of that? Considering how Uncharted 2 sold over four million copies... that's probably an 800-1000% return. You really don't think that's "too much?"

Stevo_the_gamer

About half of the $60 at retail is taken by the publisher after cost of goods sold - that's the margin. I don't always buy games at full price - subjective value (on a different note - publishers should rethink charging $60 for every new game regardless of the production values). That would make the ROI, under the false assumption of every copy selling for full price, at around 6x.

If they had sold 8 million copies on a $15 margin, it would still be a 6x ROI.

Depending on the game (or product in general) the margin is reasonable value or not - subjective value. Oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, every company, make initial capital investments, that doesn't mean they're immune to unreasonable margins and/or gouging.

Yes, Microsoft made an initial capital investment and should expect a return on investment, and in all likelihood have many times over. That doesn't mean I don't consider the margin on what they're peddling unreasonable.

I don't pretend to know what I'll pay for in the future without knowing anything about it. I can guarantee that the situation with the 3 companies will not be the same, and that all 3 will have some sort of paid service whether it is a premium service or tiered service, so I will most likely end up paying for one or multiple services, but which ones I can't sit here and speculate on at the moment.

I stopped paying for Live this gen (well actually I still have a few months left) but after that it's done. The ONLY reason people get xbox live is toplay their games online,THAT'S IT. No one buys it for facebook or twitter, nobody buys it to getmap packs and horse armor a month early, and I doubt anyone really buys it for parties and cross chat.

After I got a PS3 I just stopped caring about xbox live totally, PSN does everything that live does except for that party stuff and timed DLC and best of all it does for FREE. I also got into PC gaming this gen and I can do cross chat and parties on there for free too. So I really don't see the value of xbox live , all your paying for is just to access a part of your game that you already paid over your internet connection that you already paid for aswell.

It's all p2p so all i guess that your money is going towards is just timed DLC since parties and cross chat are already free on PC. And on top of it all, they put ads on the dashboard? And now they're bringing interactive ads? How is that a good deal? It's not, trust me. I don't know why the hardcore 360 fanboys defend the price, I think they deserve it to be free just like everyone else's. And I think that the vast majority of 360 owners want it to be free too.

I wonder if Xbox Silver had free multiplayer would anyone buy Gold?

ShadowMoses900

You say that you got into PC gaming and that you can do all the stuff XBL does on your PC for free. The only thing your forgetting is that a good gaming PC costs anywhere from 2000 USD or more to purchase. A Xbox360 costs around 250 USD. That's a difference of 1750 USD.

Now the price of XBL gold is around 60 USD per year and the average lifespan of a console is 6 years. 6 x 60 USD = 360 USD of XBL

Now 360 USD + 250 USD (purchase price) = 610 USD i have to pay total to play online for 6 years.

That's 2000 USD : 610 USD = 3,27 times cheaper than you did on your PC. Guess it didn't help that much that online is free on your PC, did it now.

On to the point about the ads. Can you explain to me why ads on the dashboard is such a bad thing. I really have no problem with them. More to the point, every online service has ads. I also own a PS3 and if i go to HOME than i can see ads flying around everywhere. You can like them or not, but to only complain about them on XBL is just being a Sony fanboy.

And off course, if XBL silver had free multiplayer and worked just as good as now i wouldn't pay for it. But since it isn't free and the fact that it's better than the alternatives i'll keep on paying my 60 buck a year for XBL gold.

You say that you got into PC gaming and that you can do all the stuff XBL does on your PC for free. The only thing your forgetting is that a good gaming PC costs anywhere from 2000 USD or more to purchase. A Xbox360 costs around 250 USD. That's a difference of 1750 USD.Now the price of XBL gold is around 60 USD per year and the average lifespan of a console is 6 years. 6 x 60 USD = 360 USD of XBL Now 360 USD + 250 USD (purchase price) = 610 USD i have to pay total to play online for 6 years. That's 2000 USD : 610 USD = 3,27 times cheaper than you did on your PC. Guess it didn't help that much that online is free on your PC, did it now.On to the point about the ads. Can you explain to me why ads on the dashboard is such a bad thing. I really have no problem with them. More to the point, every online service has ads. I also own a PS3 and if i go to HOME than i can see ads flying around everywhere. You can like them or not, but to only complain about them on XBL is just being a Sony fanboy. And off course, if XBL silver had free multiplayer and worked just as good as now i wouldn't pay for it. But since it isn't free and the fact that it's better than the alternatives i'll keep on paying my 60 buck a year for XBL gold. erwingameon

They should just make a sticky for these xbox live threads because it's getting out of hand.

Lol, why are you still posting on these forums. All you can do is sprout nonsense over and over and over again, even when other people proved you wrong hundreds of times. Just go away you Sony fanboy and leave the posting to the people who actually know what their talking about.erwingameon

[QUOTE="erwingameon"]Lol, why are you still posting on these forums. All you can do is sprout nonsense over and over and over again, even when other people proved you wrong hundreds of times. Just go away you Sony fanboy and leave the posting to the people who actually know what their talking about.tormentos

I'm not going to argue with you anymore since nothing seems to get trough to you. And no, the fact that all you say is incorrect/flawed/wrong/unrelated/twisted/bias/etc, makes what you say nonsense.

Yes. I prefer Live and the Xbox system over PSN and Playstation. As long as Xbox has Halo and Gears that will always be a deciding factor as well.

No. Why would I pay for a service that I can't use?

Phoenix534

[QUOTE="Phoenix534"]

No. Why would I pay for a service that I can't use?

blackace

I never have, never will and it was a huge reason I got tons of multiplats on the PS3