XB1 gpu able to do parallel gpu compute and rendering....

Dude, like 99% of people online are talking shit. If you don't develop, you're missing out on this huge side of context and wasting your time even knowing most of this rubbish to be honest. It's a serious waste of time. It's like those audiophile assholes who learn a bit about music technology and think they understand what producers and engineers do. While producers and engineers are just laughing at them. I bet developers are laughing at most of the guys online who think they know what they're talking about.

Well a few of those were laughing when MS claimed that DX12 would double performance in games...So what goes around comes around those same developer mocked MS.

How is this news? We've known these consoles can do this since before they launched. This is another case of people grabbing onto poorly written articles for the sake of convincing themselves that something is more impressive than it is. This is all stuff we already knew but the author is providing no explanation or context. For one thing he doesn't bother mentioning that PS4 does the same thing and does it better. Here's what's actually relevant: X1 can dedicate one of its 12 GPU cores to compute and PS4 can dedicate 4 of its 18 GPU cores to compute. This is because PS4 has 8 ACE units and X1 has 2. Now who do you think that favors?

@tormentos said:

@slimdogmilionar said:

#

LOL I don't know where to start dissecting this BS you just posted. Let's start with the fact that you said PS4 has DMA, but in your closing arguments you go on to say that PS4 doesn't need tiling because it has fast memory. Now check this out it comes from your same vgleaks source.

You see they are labeled DMA & tile/untile. 0 and 1 strictly DMA+ tile/untile. 2 and 3 are DMA+tile/untile+decode+encode. If PS4 does not need to tile you can see why would it need the same move engines that the XB1 has, the name is changed on XB1 because the move engines naturally support DMA but they are different from your normal DMA engines by featuring compression/decompression. Now even though PS4 has DMA how will it handle compression and decompression? Since you don't understand the point of DMA on PS4, I'll give you my theory. I think the DMA engines on the PS4 are there for instances when the CPU can't keep up with GPU so some of the decode will be offloaded to the DMA engine, but unlike on xbox the transfer will still have to be started by the CPU that's a wasted cycle compared to the Xb1 where the move engines can initiate the transfer themselves. That's why there is so much buzz around the move engines on the Xbox because they don't need the CPU to initiate anything they are their own independent system.

Secondly you say that the DME's can't send data to the CPU if it's sending it to DDR3 then the CPU will have access to that data, right or wrong? Right. You are exactly right the XB1 cpu can't see any data held in esram but it can see everything that's in DDR3. Not all textures need fast bandwidth so if you have one that doesn't you could use esram bandwidth to produce it fast but then have the move engines pass it off to DDR3 while both the CPU and GPU are still working at their peak.

Again from your own vgleaks source:

The advantage of the move engines lies in the fact that they can operate in parallel with computation. During times when the GPU is compute bound, move engine operations are effectively free. Even while the GPU is bandwidth bound, move engine operations may still be free if they use different pathways. For example, a move engine copy from RAM to RAM would not be impacted by a shader that only accesses ESRAM.

One move engine out of the four supports generic lossless encoding and one move engine supports generic lossless decoding. These operations act as extensions on top of the standard DMA modes.

The same move engine that supports LZ decoding also supports JPEG decoding. Just as with LZ, JPEG decoding operates as an extension on top of the standard DMA modes

Now you notice the bold part where it says acts as extensions on top of the normal DMA modes, in case you don't fully understand it means that they are not like the normal DMA found in GCN and the PS4.

You spin your arguments so much to make yourself seem right. So if the PS4 does not need tiling what was your whole rant about PRT, without PRT the PS4 would definitely need more than 4.5gb of ram. And again you are right on the xbox they are a patch to help the XB keep up with the fast ram of the PS4, but it was not a last minute thing. MS built the console based on the fact that it would take full advantage of tiling while not tasking the CPU with the job. Now take into consideration that developers are talking about ways to make their render targets smaller. PS4 used brute force but still everything that comes and goes to the DMA engines have to be initiated by the CPU. not only is the XB1 slightly faster than the PS4's it also has less latency because of DDR3. Are you seeing the difference now?

So do you wanna rethink your argument that DMA and DME are the same thing because unless you can show me a diagram of the PS4 having DMA engines that work the same way as the Xbox you should just admit that you are wrong. The source you posted did nothing but help you to prove my point. So much for the nail in the coffin eh.

Go ahead try and spin it.

STFU you claim DME and DMA were not the same..

@slimdogmilionar said:

I have yet to see a ps4 diagram with DME"s I see DMA but no DME's. And they are not the same still, PS4 DMA only support decompression and not both decompression and compression like the XB1

This is what you claim.

basically as data is being pulled by the move engines from the CPU

And this to which is false,Move engines don't pull data from CPU.

Lastly you should know that DMA and DME are different, Direct Memory Access vs Data Move Engines.

This is ^^ what you claim and you even highly both name as if the name alone proved they were something different when PRT and Tile resources are the same shit and name differently.

the name is changed on XB1 because the move engines naturally support DMA but they are different from your normal DMA engines by featuring compression/decompression.

Move engines doesn't support DMA you freaking morons move engines are DMA and the picture you just posted fu**ing own your self..ahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You see it say Move engine 0 move engine 1 those 2 lack any kind of compression hardware yet are call move engine in fact they are the first 2,that is because move engines are DMA Idiot.

The rest of your post is idiot crap and total bullshit from something you don't understand is so funny seeing you say they are different and trying to refuse that are not the same with different names,but then seeing try to say the name was change because they are different.. Hahaha..

You are an idiot tilling is something you have to do if you run into problems with memory on ESRAM or EDRAM,in fact on xbox 360 tilling was need it if you wanted 4xAA because the 10MB of Edram was to small for free 4XAA like MS promise,basically both the xbox and xbox 360 suffer from the same shit because of having a small pool of fast memory.

You are a moron the PS4 doesn't need DMA t work in the same way as the xbox one,because the PS4 doesn't use gimped DDR3 with a pathc of 32 MB of fast ram,DMA is what move data between those memories the xbox one need it to speed up date transfer between both,the PS4 has 1 gigantic pool of fast ram...

LMAO. Are you just dumb or in denial? Bring me a link to show PS4 DMA is the same as M$

You posted a link from vgleaks that said DME's can pull/push/move data without the CPU having to initiate the task. How can you say move engine's don't support DMA but then say that PS4 has the same thing as Move engines? On top of that you claim DME's don't support DMA. Everything I just posted came from your own vgleaks source you tried to use to own me. To add extra icing on the cake the picture , which was also pulled from your vgleaks link shows that the move engines support DMA + tile/untile so explain to me how DME"s don't support DMA.

You say the move engines don't support compression and decompression. Notice how it says decode and encode on move engine 2 and 3. This again comes from your vgleaks:

Generic loseless compression and decompression

One move engine out of the four supports generic lossless encoding and one move engine supports generic lossless decoding. These operations act as extensions on top of the standard DMA modes. For instance, a title may decode from main RAM directly into a sub-rectangle of a tiled texture in ESRAM.

The canonical use for the LZ decoder is decompression (or transcoding) of data loaded from off-chip from, for instance, the hard drive or the network. The canonical use for the LZ encoder is compression of data destined for off-chip. Conceivably, LZ compression might also be appropriate for data that will remain in RAM but may not be used again for many frames—for instance, low latency audio clips.

LMAO. I can't stop laughing at how dumb you sound in your post. Like I said before anything that's in DDR3 the move engines can pull and move so that would essentially be CPU data. Am I right or am I wrong?

Again LMAO at the fact that you say move engines 0 & 1 lack any kind of compression hardware but fail to notice engines 2 & 3 that clearly say encode and decode. This proves that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you really don't understand the things being said in the links you post.

How am I an idiot, before you claimed that PS4 being capable of PRT is a win and that it is the same as tiled resources but now your stance has changed and you claim PS4 does not need to use PRT because it has GDD5. That's just a dumb statement period. The PS4 will do nothing but profit from being able to use PRT even it has GDDR5, without tiling textures would be huge and the amount of ram needed to hold them would be extremely costly.

DMA and DME are not the same thing no matter how you try to spin it. Everything that DMA does has to be initiated by the CPU, everything the DME's do they are initiated by the DME themselves. That's why they are called move engines instead of DMA. DMA means being able to access any part of memory at any given time and free the CPU from doing task when it can't keep up, but again the transfer in and out of DMA's has to be initiated by the CPU. DME's also can access any part of memory but the transfer in or out does not have to be initiated by the CPU.

Lol funny to see you say I don't know what I'm talking about but yet you still can't seem to grasp the concept right in front of your face, they are not the same kind of engine period. This is a fact that you cannot prove otherwise, give up, you lost, you are wrong, you can't be right no matter how much you try to say they are the same they are not.

I expected a better losing statement from you. Something along the lines of "So it doesn't matter PS4 still has more GPU power than the XB1", or at least that's how I would have went out. Definitely would not have continued to make myself look stupid.

So? Developers have been calling out companies on their BS claims since the beginning probably. That has nothing to do with regular people on the net pretending to have a clue.

The DMA are the same and since your original argument is they are not the same yeah you end up been owned just like Tile Resources which you falsely claim wasn't the same as PRT..hahaha

I already link you to the article that destroy your theory period.

The part you are in bold there refer to the 2 extra DMA the xbox one has moron,GCN has 2 the PS4 has 2 the xbox one has 4,why the xbox one has 4.? Because unlike the PS4 or PC it relies on DDR3 as memory and has only 32 MB of fast memory,so to be able to move data between both memory banks (which is what the extra DMA do on xbox one) they need something else the would be a bottleneck.

The PS4 DMA like on PC are there for a reason,on xbox one there is 2 more because the xbox one uses slow memory and has 2 different memory address unlike the PS4 and hell unlike PC because PC has 2 different address but one is system the other is video memory which is GDDR5.

Move engines don't move data off the CPU like you claim they move data between video DDR3 and ESRAM stated by my link.

No i didn't fail to notice them in fact i highly the difference between both and claim both are DMA regardless of having compressor and decompressor which the PS4 also has as well as encoder and decoders,mind you the PS4 also has a low power ARM CPU and not all the crap the xbox one has inside its apu need to seat there on PS4,several other things are outside the APU,is the reason why the xbox one apu is 5 billion transitors is full of crap which doesn't need to be there including those decoders.

You are an idiot tiling is not PRT dude,tilling refer to other process as well,the xbox 360 need it tiling on EDRAM to have 4XAA does that mean the xbox 360 had tile resources of PRT.? hahaha

The Xbox 360 has 10 MB (10×1024×1024) of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM) that is dedicated for use as the back buffer, depth stencil buffer, and other render targets. Depending on the size and format of the render targets and the antialiasing level, it may not be possible to fit all targets in EDRAM at once. For example, 10 MB of EDRAM is enough to hold two 1280×720 32-bit surfaces with no multisample antialiasing (MSAA) or two 640×480 4× MSAA 32-bit surfaces. However, a 1280×720 2× MSAA 32-bits-per-pixel render target is 7,372,800 bytes. Combined with a 32-bit Z/stencil buffer of the same dimensions, it becomes apparent that 10 MB might not be sufficient.

Predicated tiling allows rendering to larger surfaces than can fit into EDRAM at any one time. In predicated tiling, the screen space is broken up into tiles (rectangles). The following figure shows the screen space broken into two tiles.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb464139.aspx

This is tiling ^^ and this is what has to be done on ESRAM to fit everything on ESRAM,they are not talking about Tile Resources that is different,the tiling they are talking about is the one the xbox 360 basically use to deal with the small space available on EDRAM the same problem affect ESRAM because it is to small,and tiling also is more work for the developers in case you didn't know it.

So when i say the PS4 doesn't need tiling i am not talking about PRT or Tile Resources like MS call it,i am talking about Tiling what developers had to do to fit everything on EDRAM and on ESRAM.

Consider you self educated on this matter.

Xbox One (Durango) hardware has four move engines for fast direct memory access (DMA)Read more at: http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durangos-move-engines

Once again they are the same my link >>>>>>>> you.

But let me put to rest this shit once and for all...

Digital Foundry: So often you're CPU bound. That explains why so many of the Data Move Engine functions seem to be about offloading CPU?

Andrew Goossen: Yeah, again I think we under-balanced and we had that great opportunity to change that balance late in the game. The DMA Move Engines also help the GPU significantly as well. For some scenarios there, imagine you've rendered to a depth buffer there in ESRAM. And now you're switching to another depth buffer. You may want to go and pull what is now a texture into DDR so that you can texture out of it later and you're not doing tons of reads from that texture so it actually makes more sense for it to be in DDR. You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move. You've got the DMA engine doing it. Now the GPU can go on and immediately work on the next render target rather than simply move bits around.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview

Andrew goossen calling DMA move engines... BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM....

Lets drop another misconception here the xbox one doesn't have 64 command it has 16 from its 2 ACES.

Digital Foundry: The GPU compute comparison seems to be about Xbox One's high coherent read bandwidth vs. raw ALU on PS4. But don't the additional ACEs added to PS4 aim to address that issue?

Andrew Goossen: The number of asynchronous compute queues provided by the ACEs doesn't affect the amount of bandwidth or number of effective FLOPs or any other performance metrics of the GPU. Rather, it dictates the number of simultaneous hardware "contexts" that the GPU's hardware scheduler can operate on any one time. You can think of these as analogous to CPU software threads - they are logical threads of execution that share the GPU hardware. Having more of them doesn't necessarily improve the actual throughput of the system - indeed, just like a program running on the CPU, too many concurrent threads can make aggregate effective performance worse due to thrashing. We believe that the 16 queues afforded by our two ACEs are quite sufficient.

And there you have it another confirmation from Goossen the xbox one has 16 commands from its 2 aces...

Oh and no matter what the PS4 will always be more powerful..

But keep the hopes alive maybe the super cloud..hahahahaa

PRT breaks textures into small tiles and copies to-be-displayed texture tiles into faster/smaller memory location. This enables TMUs to access the faster memory pool with the required textures.

PRT works best on machines with two memory pools with different speeds and storage size.

PC = larger/slower DDR3 (various low GB/s) ---> GPU's faster/smaller GDDR5(can be greater than 172 GB/s). PC's sizeable 2 to 4GB GDDR5 enables texture loads to be less time critical when compared to X1. MS demo'ed 16 MB VRAM example with textures larger the targeted VRAM.

X1 = larger/slower DDR3 (68 GB/s peak)---> GPU's faster/smaller ESRAM. Due to small 32 MB size, texture loads would be time critical when compared to PC.

PS4 = there's only one memory pool. There's very little to gain with single speed memory pool.

The other tiling process is frame buffer tiling i.e. this keeps GPU's multiple reads and writes in small/faster memory. Once the frame buffer tile is complete, it can be copied to DDR3. This reduces the multiple read/write interactions with slower memory pool i.e. just do a memory write with final image tile to DDR3.

X1's memory workaround wouldn't change GPU hardware limits.

Bro none of that proved anything you still have not disputed the fact that the major difference between normal DMA engines and move engines is the fact that the move engines work on theie own. Just because he called them Dma engines does not mean they are not different. As a matter of fact in you last post you just said that the xbox does not have DMA? Not to mention I pinpointed the fact that they have DMA, tile/untile, and compression and decompression which you swore it did not. Make up your mind whether it does or does not.

LMAO you say DMA on PS4 are there for a reason then go on to say it's like PC because PC has two memory pools. Which system has two memory pools similar to PC? Not PS4 buddy it only has one, but xb1 has two. So why would Ps4 need DMA engines? You still can't answer that question can you? Secondly PC can suffice with just 2 DMA's because they don't have shitty hardware like the consoles.

compressor and decompressor which the PS4 also has as well as encoder and decoders

Seriously. So you gonna sit here and try to argue and don't even have the knowledge to know that encode and decode is compression and decompression? OMFG then you post a link about tiling which specifically talks about render targets GTFO. Bro I have never encountered anyone as blind and biased as you, so much so that they would make themself look stupid to prove something that can't be proven. Make up your mind is PRT the same as tiled resources or not? You can't keep swaying back and forth to prove a point, you can't confuse me if that's what you are trying to do.

You see that bold part, if not here I'll quote it for you again.

You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move.

See that last part where it the GPU does not have to concentrate on the move? Once again owned by your own link.

Obviously you don't understand how normal DMA engines work so you should go and Google it and then come back here once you understand it then you can understand what I'm trying to say. Do you not not understand that normal DMA engines need to be initiated by the system, or is that above you.

There is a downside to move engines but you are to dumb to know what it is because you don't actually understand how they or DMA engines work.

Lol so now tiling is not PRT but yet you claimed tiled resources and PRT are the same thing. Dude just stop. STOP. This is the reason why you are used as an example of how not to be on SW.

Who said anything about ACE's?

You have yet to destroy my argument all you keep doing is proving my point. Bro I'm getting bored arguing with you seeing as how you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you just keep helping me prove my point about move engines.

@slimdogmilionar:

GPU needs DMA to reduce CPU intervention e.g GPU's basic scatter and gather functions needs DMA.

Lol Tormentos is being owned again, and grasping at straws

Nice try. Insipid8 couldn't think of a decent comeback against a toddler.

I answered that for tormentos in my last post, but he himself has no idea what they are or why they are there.

That bold part was proved wrong by me ages ago Ron,PRT don't work with 2 memory pools that is a lie,and i pulled GNC documents which in not par claim PRT worked better with 2 memory pools in fact PRT is a feature of GCN and on PC even that 2 memory address exist PRT has doesn't access DDR3 system memory it works with Vram memory.

Is incredible that you still try to pull that shit,i already prove it and you don't have a single proof that PRT work better with 2 memory pools on PC PRT don't touch system memory it use Vram memory from the same pool graphics feed as well.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-trials-fusion-face-off

This game uses PRT or Tile Resources on xbox one,and is superior on PS4 i already shut down months ago,the whole secret sauce of the xbox one was crap and PRT doesn't work better with 2 memory pools i proved already as well that it uses Vram for partial storage not DDR3.

In other words it works better with GDDR5 video memory which is what GCN has on PC.

That is stupid theory have you try to move a folder in your PC from C to desktop.? It does it almost instantly because the Data is already there,it just move to another part,but have you try copying that same file to another drive in that same PC.? It takes longer right because the data is not there and needs to be copy.

Well that is same with GDDR5 on PS4 moving data from one part of the memory to another part of that same memory will be a hell of allot faster than moving it from another memory,all the PS4 does to run those on Vram is 32 MB of ram which can be easily allocated,hell it need less because the xbox one don't use even half of the 32 MB for Tile Resources because it also has to run other things as well.

I already pasted a link from MS on tiling which is the same process use on xbox 360 to fit everything on EDRAM that tiling is not Tile Resources dude is another process.

Well maybe you should tell that yo your self and @slimdogmilionar who believe other wise..

I just fu**ing owned you from the xbox one architect it self DMA are DME with another name,and the xbox one has only 16 commands...

You are grasping....Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Now since you claim they are not i need a link from MS stating that DMA and DME are not the same shit,time to back up your shit bro...lol

The only owning in this place is the one you sad lemmings get,Ronvalecia vanish from this forum the moment Sniper Elite 3 benchmarks came out,after months of riding Rebellions quotes and using it as ammo that the xbox one and PS4 would perform the same the game it self look better on PS4 and was up to 30FPS faster..hahaha

He got owned and Vanish...hahaha Hell not long ago he show up trying to damage control SE3 results and trying to ignore that the xbox one version need Vsynch to be on par with the PS4 version...hahaha

And @slimdogmilionar is a moron who only spin things up without any valid points,he is even dumber than you are..hahaha

Hahahaha, lol, keep lying, keep trying.

Last night was the First time I have seen COD:AW on X1. Graphics are mind blowing. So you guys can argue specs all you want and at the end of the day it's just arguing specs. To me, seeing is believing.

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

Bro @ronvalencia just gave you a perfect explanation yet you can't except it. Why?

PRT breaks textures into small tiles and copies to-be-displayed texture tiles into faster/smaller memory location. This enables TMUs to access the faster memory pool with the required textures.

Why would a system with one memory pool benefit from more from having DMA's than one with two? Why would you move something from main ram just to move it back? With the speed of the GDDr5 found in the PS4 there should be no issue with how fast it is able to access the texture mapping units. The PS4 does not have a smaller/faster memory pool that the data would need to be transferred to, it has unified memory that both the CPU and GPu have constant access to.

No one needs to prove that PRT works better with two memory pools it's common sense. If vram is full you can use the cpu to start processing the next texture that needs to be sent to the GPU, once it's processes you can transfer it over to the DMA's to decode it and send it to the GPU so the CPU can be free to start another task.

If you move something from C to desktop on PC it is moving the data from one part of the harddrive to another, but it doesn't work that way on PS4. A better example of how DMA's on PS4 works would be like moving a file from hardrive C to hardrive D and then back to hardrive C. GDDR5--->DMA---> GDDR5 = C--->D--->C. PC and XBOX 1 = DDR3--->DMA--->Vram or Vram--->DMA--->DDR3. You claim moving something from one part of GDDR5 to another but the PS4 does not do that it moves it from main ram to DMA then back to main ram. Not to mention when you move a file the CPU has to initiate the transfer just like normal DMA engines found in the PS4, the DME's on xbox one will pull move and push data on their own. Completely different from copying a file from C to desktop.

Not too mention the fact that PS4 DMA's can only transfer data at 16Gb/s compared to xb1 that can transfer from 25GB/s to 68GB/s.

How can you say XB1 does not use DDR3 for storage? Then why is it there? The xb1 can texture out of both DDR3 and esram so again you are wrong.

You did not own anybody just because you posted a link with Goosen calling move engine DMA's. They are like DMA's but with extra functionality and have no need for the transfer from memory to be initiated by CPU or GPU.

I don't need to post a link to back up my story, you already did. Here it is again from your own vgleaks link:

One move engine out of the four supports generic lossless encoding and one move engine supports generic lossless decoding. These operations act as extensions on top of the standard DMA modes.

The same move engine that supports LZ decoding also supports JPEG decoding. Just as with LZ, JPEG decoding operates as an extension on top of the standard DMA modes.

The advantage of the move engines lies in the fact that they can operate in parallel with computation. During times when the GPU is compute bound, move engine operations are effectively free. http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durangos-move-engines

There is your link. Now let me ask you something if the PS4 is compute bound how will the data get to the DMA's since the command to move files has to come from the GPU or CPU? Also notice how it says that the operations that the DME's perform are extensions on top of the normal DMA modes. That part right there should let you know that the move engines don't act like normal DMA engines. Like I keep saying if the Xbox is compute bound the move engines can push pull and move data without needing help from the CPU or GPU.

So how about you showing me a link that says PS4 DMA engines work the same way as XB1's. You can't because the whole buzz surrounding the move engines is the fact that they have added functionality over normal DMA's.

Everything you posted is false BS. One post you claim PS4 does not need PRT, then in your next post you claim it does. Which is does it or does it not? Then you claim tiled resources is the same as PRT but then go on to say that tiling textures is different from PRT. It is you who are grasping and the more you try the more you show everyone here how much you really don't know anything about what you are talking about.

Stop grasping PS4 has a more capable GPU, you should not feel insecure that the XB1 has a few extra things the PS4 does not. M$ needed a way to make up for the slow DDR3, but they also wanted to make sure that the CPU and GPU would perform at their peak at all times.

@ronvalencia said:

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

Since when the 9800TG has PRT or tile resources.?

It doesn't showing how memory operate on certain old cards is not the same as PRT work and that GPU doesn't represent GCN nice spin bro..

Where does it say there that it needs 2 memory pools or that it works better.? It say it use local graphics memory as a hardware cache..

Worse i already gave you an example Trials Fusion is a PRT game on both consoles and on PS4 is superior so much for PRT working better on 2 memory pools when the end result is the same the xbox been beat.

Prove it butthurt lemming..hahaha

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

PRT breaks textures into small tiles and copies to-be-displayed texture tiles into faster/smaller memory location. This enables TMUs to access the faster memory pool with the required textures.

PRT works best on machines with two memory pools with different speeds and storage size.

PC = larger/slower DDR3 (various low GB/s) ---> GPU's faster/smaller GDDR5(can be greater than 172 GB/s). PC's sizeable 2 to 4GB GDDR5 enables texture loads to be less time critical when compared to X1. MS demo'ed 16 MB VRAM example with textures larger the targeted VRAM.

X1 = larger/slower DDR3 (68 GB/s peak)---> GPU's faster/smaller ESRAM. Due to small 32 MB size, texture loads would be time critical when compared to PC.

PS4 = there's only one memory pool. There's very little to gain with single speed memory pool.

The other tiling process is frame buffer tiling i.e. this keeps GPU's multiple reads and writes in small/faster memory. Once the frame buffer tile is complete, it can be copied to DDR3. This reduces the multiple read/write interactions with slower memory pool i.e. just do a memory write with final image tile to DDR3.

X1's memory workaround wouldn't change GPU hardware limits.

That bold part was proved wrong by me ages ago Ron,PRT don't work with 2 memory pools that is a lie,and i pulled GNC documents which in not par claim PRT worked better with 2 memory pools in fact PRT is a feature of GCN and on PC even that 2 memory address exist PRT has doesn't access DDR3 system memory it works with Vram memory.

Is incredible that you still try to pull that shit,i already prove it and you don't have a single proof that PRT work better with 2 memory pools on PC PRT don't touch system memory it use Vram memory from the same pool graphics feed as well.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-trials-fusion-face-off

This game uses PRT or Tile Resources on xbox one,and is superior on PS4 i already shut down months ago,the whole secret sauce of the xbox one was crap and PRT doesn't work better with 2 memory pools i proved already as well that it uses Vram for partial storage not DDR3.

In other words it works better with GDDR5 video memory which is what GCN has on PC.

That is stupid theory have you try to move a folder in your PC from C to desktop.? It does it almost instantly because the Data is already there,it just move to another part,but have you try copying that same file to another drive in that same PC.? It takes longer right because the data is not there and needs to be copy.

Well that is same with GDDR5 on PS4 moving data from one part of the memory to another part of that same memory will be a hell of allot faster than moving it from another memory,all the PS4 does to run those on Vram is 32 MB of ram which can be easily allocated,hell it need less because the xbox one don't use even half of the 32 MB for Tile Resources because it also has to run other things as well.

I already pasted a link from MS on tiling which is the same process use on xbox 360 to fit everything on EDRAM that tiling is not Tile Resources dude is another process.

Well maybe you should tell that yo your self and @slimdogmilionar who believe other wise..

@slimdogmilionar said:

Bro none of that proved anything you still have not disputed the fact that the major difference between normal DMA engines and move engines is the fact that the move engines work on theie own. Just because he called them Dma engines does not mean they are not different. As a matter of fact in you last post you just said that the xbox does not have DMA? Not to mention I pinpointed the fact that they have DMA, tile/untile, and compression and decompression which you swore it did not. Make up your mind whether it does or does not.

LMAO you say DMA on PS4 are there for a reason then go on to say it's like PC because PC has two memory pools. Which system has two memory pools similar to PC? Not PS4 buddy it only has one, but xb1 has two. So why would Ps4 need DMA engines? You still can't answer that question can you? Secondly PC can suffice with just 2 DMA's because they don't have shitty hardware like the consoles.

compressor and decompressor which the PS4 also has as well as encoder and decoders

Seriously. So you gonna sit here and try to argue and don't even have the knowledge to know that encode and decode is compression and decompression? OMFG then you post a link about tiling which specifically talks about render targets GTFO. Bro I have never encountered anyone as blind and biased as you, so much so that they would make themself look stupid to prove something that can't be proven. Make up your mind is PRT the same as tiled resources or not? You can't keep swaying back and forth to prove a point, you can't confuse me if that's what you are trying to do.

You see that bold part, if not here I'll quote it for you again.

You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move.

See that last part where it the GPU does not have to concentrate on the move? Once again owned by your own link.

Obviously you don't understand how normal DMA engines work so you should go and Google it and then come back here once you understand it then you can understand what I'm trying to say. Do you not not understand that normal DMA engines need to be initiated by the system, or is that above you.

There is a downside to move engines but you are to dumb to know what it is because you don't actually understand how they or DMA engines work.

Lol so now tiling is not PRT but yet you claimed tiled resources and PRT are the same thing. Dude just stop. STOP. This is the reason why you are used as an example of how not to be on SW.

Who said anything about ACE's?

You have yet to destroy my argument all you keep doing is proving my point. Bro I'm getting bored arguing with you seeing as how you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you just keep helping me prove my point about move engines.

I just fu**ing owned you from the xbox one architect it self DMA are DME with another name,and the xbox one has only 16 commands...

You are grasping....Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Now since you claim they are not i need a link from MS stating that DMA and DME are not the same shit,time to back up your shit bro...lol

@FastRobby said:

Lol Tormentos is being owned again, and grasping at straws

The only owning in this place is the one you sad lemmings get,Ronvalecia vanish from this forum the moment Sniper Elite 3 benchmarks came out,after months of riding Rebellions quotes and using it as ammo that the xbox one and PS4 would perform the same the game it self look better on PS4 and was up to 30FPS faster..hahaha

He got owned and Vanish...hahaha Hell not long ago he show up trying to damage control SE3 results and trying to ignore that the xbox one version need Vsynch to be on par with the PS4 version...hahaha

And @slimdogmilionar is a moron who only spin things up without any valid points,he is even dumber than you are..hahaha

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

What a joke you are, a dx10 card with tiled resources? goes to show you have no fuking clue what you talk about

9800gt is a 7 year old card, goes to show you only argue with what you read on some powerpoint slides and are actually clueless.

LMAO!!

"I'm not a doctor or a game console engineer... but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night." - El Tormo

**********************************************************************************

No, but when the shit hits the fan, I hope you're still around.

@Krelian-co said:

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

PRT breaks textures into small tiles and copies to-be-displayed texture tiles into faster/smaller memory location. This enables TMUs to access the faster memory pool with the required textures.

PRT works best on machines with two memory pools with different speeds and storage size.

PC = larger/slower DDR3 (various low GB/s) ---> GPU's faster/smaller GDDR5(can be greater than 172 GB/s). PC's sizeable 2 to 4GB GDDR5 enables texture loads to be less time critical when compared to X1. MS demo'ed 16 MB VRAM example with textures larger the targeted VRAM.

X1 = larger/slower DDR3 (68 GB/s peak)---> GPU's faster/smaller ESRAM. Due to small 32 MB size, texture loads would be time critical when compared to PC.

PS4 = there's only one memory pool. There's very little to gain with single speed memory pool.

The other tiling process is frame buffer tiling i.e. this keeps GPU's multiple reads and writes in small/faster memory. Once the frame buffer tile is complete, it can be copied to DDR3. This reduces the multiple read/write interactions with slower memory pool i.e. just do a memory write with final image tile to DDR3.

X1's memory workaround wouldn't change GPU hardware limits.

That bold part was proved wrong by me ages ago Ron,PRT don't work with 2 memory pools that is a lie,and i pulled GNC documents which in not par claim PRT worked better with 2 memory pools in fact PRT is a feature of GCN and on PC even that 2 memory address exist PRT has doesn't access DDR3 system memory it works with Vram memory.

Is incredible that you still try to pull that shit,i already prove it and you don't have a single proof that PRT work better with 2 memory pools on PC PRT don't touch system memory it use Vram memory from the same pool graphics feed as well.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-trials-fusion-face-off

This game uses PRT or Tile Resources on xbox one,and is superior on PS4 i already shut down months ago,the whole secret sauce of the xbox one was crap and PRT doesn't work better with 2 memory pools i proved already as well that it uses Vram for partial storage not DDR3.

In other words it works better with GDDR5 video memory which is what GCN has on PC.

That is stupid theory have you try to move a folder in your PC from C to desktop.? It does it almost instantly because the Data is already there,it just move to another part,but have you try copying that same file to another drive in that same PC.? It takes longer right because the data is not there and needs to be copy.

Well that is same with GDDR5 on PS4 moving data from one part of the memory to another part of that same memory will be a hell of allot faster than moving it from another memory,all the PS4 does to run those on Vram is 32 MB of ram which can be easily allocated,hell it need less because the xbox one don't use even half of the 32 MB for Tile Resources because it also has to run other things as well.

I already pasted a link from MS on tiling which is the same process use on xbox 360 to fit everything on EDRAM that tiling is not Tile Resources dude is another process.

Well maybe you should tell that yo your self and @slimdogmilionar who believe other wise..

@slimdogmilionar said:

Bro none of that proved anything you still have not disputed the fact that the major difference between normal DMA engines and move engines is the fact that the move engines work on theie own. Just because he called them Dma engines does not mean they are not different. As a matter of fact in you last post you just said that the xbox does not have DMA? Not to mention I pinpointed the fact that they have DMA, tile/untile, and compression and decompression which you swore it did not. Make up your mind whether it does or does not.

LMAO you say DMA on PS4 are there for a reason then go on to say it's like PC because PC has two memory pools. Which system has two memory pools similar to PC? Not PS4 buddy it only has one, but xb1 has two. So why would Ps4 need DMA engines? You still can't answer that question can you? Secondly PC can suffice with just 2 DMA's because they don't have shitty hardware like the consoles.

compressor and decompressor which the PS4 also has as well as encoder and decoders

Seriously. So you gonna sit here and try to argue and don't even have the knowledge to know that encode and decode is compression and decompression? OMFG then you post a link about tiling which specifically talks about render targets GTFO. Bro I have never encountered anyone as blind and biased as you, so much so that they would make themself look stupid to prove something that can't be proven. Make up your mind is PRT the same as tiled resources or not? You can't keep swaying back and forth to prove a point, you can't confuse me if that's what you are trying to do.

You see that bold part, if not here I'll quote it for you again.

You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move.

See that last part where it the GPU does not have to concentrate on the move? Once again owned by your own link.

Obviously you don't understand how normal DMA engines work so you should go and Google it and then come back here once you understand it then you can understand what I'm trying to say. Do you not not understand that normal DMA engines need to be initiated by the system, or is that above you.

There is a downside to move engines but you are to dumb to know what it is because you don't actually understand how they or DMA engines work.

Lol so now tiling is not PRT but yet you claimed tiled resources and PRT are the same thing. Dude just stop. STOP. This is the reason why you are used as an example of how not to be on SW.

Who said anything about ACE's?

You have yet to destroy my argument all you keep doing is proving my point. Bro I'm getting bored arguing with you seeing as how you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you just keep helping me prove my point about move engines.

I just fu**ing owned you from the xbox one architect it self DMA are DME with another name,and the xbox one has only 16 commands...

You are grasping....Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Now since you claim they are not i need a link from MS stating that DMA and DME are not the same shit,time to back up your shit bro...lol

@FastRobby said:

Lol Tormentos is being owned again, and grasping at straws

The only owning in this place is the one you sad lemmings get,Ronvalecia vanish from this forum the moment Sniper Elite 3 benchmarks came out,after months of riding Rebellions quotes and using it as ammo that the xbox one and PS4 would perform the same the game it self look better on PS4 and was up to 30FPS faster..hahaha

He got owned and Vanish...hahaha Hell not long ago he show up trying to damage control SE3 results and trying to ignore that the xbox one version need Vsynch to be on par with the PS4 version...hahaha

And @slimdogmilionar is a moron who only spin things up without any valid points,he is even dumber than you are..hahaha

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

What a joke you are, a dx10 card with tiled resources? goes to show you have no fuking clue what you talk about

9800gt is a 7 year old card, goes to show you only argue with what you read on some powerpoint slides and are actually clueless.

It would be nice if people who understand this stuff were not drowned out by all the fanboy nonsense.

He really is clueless the whole PRT working better with 2 pool or ram came from Misterxmedia kind of sites,it was never proven i even search on how PRT worked on GCN and in no part it say it use DDR3 or system memory for PRT it was always Vram and i showed him,maybe he has short term memory problems because i remember it well,which is the reason why i use that screen on my reply.

which is funny because he always say saying this doesn't represent that when he wanted to downplay the 7790 having more power than the xbox one,because it didn't have a 256 bit bus all of the sudden the 7790 didn't represent the xbox one GPU....hahaha

Now he bring a 9800GT which isn't even a PRT GPU or GCN like on xbox one..lol

You quoting your alter account now that is redundancy...lol

I hope you still around when 2015 pass 2016 pass and the xbox one remains the same and your secret NDA GPU fail to materialize and DX12 fail to deliver because i have some nice quotes of you which will surely make for some laughs..

@Krelian-co:

For Nvidia Geforce GTX 580 (DX11)

7970 with 6GB VRAM + 7.8 GB shared memory.

Are you claiming DX11 PC can't load it's large textures to main memory prior to VRAM texture load? PC's powerful CPU can handle this construct. Weak CPU powered machines would need additional offloading hardware when compared to a gaming PC with a strong desktop class CPU.

I'll post my R9-290's shared memory config once I get back home.

@tormentos

Your the one who doesn't have a clue.

The basics, a fast cache requires the existence of slower memory pool but WITH decent transfer rates. Slower memory or storage pool can be either CPU's main memory or hard disk/SSD/blu-ray. The problem hard disk/controller is their transfer rates which is magnitude slower than DDR3.

Both X1 and PS4's hard drive controllers are budget tablet/netbook parts and inferior to desktop PC chipsets.

Another problem is the cache's swap in and swap out nature i.e. it's better to play ping-pong with main memory than constantly grinding the hard disk.

As with any cache setup, it's better to set up a storage speed hierarchy i.e. fastest/small->fast/large->slow/largest.

AMD PRT converts smaller/fast memory pool into a cache for texture tiles. It's the programmer's job to select the right non-cache storage pool.

all the gifs and pictures this thread is hard to follow

@ronvalencia said:

@Krelian-co:

For Nvidia Geforce GTX 580 (DX11)

7970 with 6GB VRAM + 7.8 GB shared memory.

Are you claiming DX11 PC can't load it's large textures to main memory prior to VRAM texture load? PC's powerful CPU can handle this construct. Weak CPU powered machines would need additional offloading hardware when compared to a gaming PC with a strong desktop class CPU.

I'll post my R9-290's shared memory config once I get back home.

hell yeah let's quickly change the subject about your ignorant comment on the 9800gt having tiled resources, keep arguing ignorant.

ok you guys keep saying tiled resources are you talking about tiled rendering? or are you just talking about textures?

"Tiled Resources

Texture space is subdivided into a grid of tiles but some tiles are allowed to be missing and no physical memory is allocated for these missing tiles. This is implemented through a page table allowing developers to map and un-map tiles as needed. More information on Tiled Resources is available here."

Sounds just like mip mapping to me, but I'm guessing there is something more. But at the end of the day, I'm working as an "artist", not as a programmer, so it means jack shit to me lol. Thank god.

@Krelian-co said:

@ronvalencia said:

@Krelian-co:

For Nvidia Geforce GTX 580 (DX11)

7970 with 6GB VRAM + 7.8 GB shared memory.

Are you claiming DX11 PC can't load it's large textures to main memory prior to VRAM texture load? PC's powerful CPU can handle this construct. Weak CPU powered machines would need additional offloading hardware when compared to a gaming PC with a strong desktop class CPU.

I'll post my R9-290's shared memory config once I get back home.

hell yeah let's quickly change the subject about your ignorant comment on the 9800gt having tiled resources, keep arguing ignorant.

I was referring to system memory for Direct3D's work YOU FOOL.

@tormentos

The reason for pre-loading the texture assets into main memory.

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-trials-fusion-face-off

"However, we do notice PS4 and Xbox One struggling to stream segments of the world fast enough from their hard disks, resulting in some pop-in."

These streaming issues are especially glaring on PS4 during the Turbine Terror stage, where the blurred texture beneath our tyres fails to update until we're far past it. Pop-in also flares up aggressively when restarting from various checkpoints on Xbox One, and here even shadow maps can be found snapping into view. In the reference PC version, however, pop-in goes almost unnoticed if you're playing on a machine with an SSD to stream from.

A straight HDD to VRAM has it's own pitfalls. PC gamer can throw SSD with industry's best SATA controller at the problem e.g. I have Samsung 840 Pro SSD 512 GB with Intel Haswell era chipsets for this issue

For Trials Fusion, both X1 and PS4 aimed for 60 fps. PS4 has 1920x1080p while X1 has 1600x900p.

On Sniper Elite 3, they floated the frame rates between 60 fps and 30 fps while keeping the same 1920x1080p resolution for both consoles.

If strict 60 fps was applied for Sniper Elite 3, X1's resolution has to be reduced. This is no brainer.

.

@ConanTheStoner: Im a programmer, and an artist. Not an artist professionally anymore though. Im asking because I know what it is but from the arguments people are using it sounds like they are mixing the two. Mip maps, are used to sample pixels depending on the distance they are rendered from the camera so its a little different. lol. The whole point of tiled resources is to keep you from using the entire cache just for the frame buffer. So having a place to store the tiles and load them into the cache as needed. This is why Rov was saying two pools of memory. If your memory is unified there is no reason to tile the resources your aren't saving cache space.. If thats what the argument is about but i can't tell because all the gif's name calling and other stupid shit going on.

Lemmings still clinging to their pixie dust?

Insider, why do they keep pushing the NDA release dates back?

Which has total shit to do with PRT.

Again you blind biased lemming...Quote AMD Saying that PRT work better on 2 memory pools and stop posting irrelevant shit,the problems on trial fusion were to do HDD streaming not PRT working better on xbox one,in fact you use a SSD on PS4 and the problems is gone while on xbox one stays because you can't change your xbox one HDD. You CAN USE SSD ON PS4..lol

SE3 never run at 30FPS on PS4,and the XBO version is lock 30 once Vsynch is apply which is need it because the game suffer from horrible screen tearing.

Again ill wait while you quote AMD on PRT working better on 2 memory pool...lol

PRT use nothing bu Vram for cache not DDR3.

https://www.google.com.pr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Famd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwordpress%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F10%2FPartially%2520Resident%2520Textures%2520on%2520Next-Generation%2520GPUs.v04.pps&ei=kcivVKLyJ4HCgwTmrYCwDA&usg=AFQjCNGe_IS6vwwHmo6PlWLFuJuNKjUDRg&sig2=RhAyvbY7GgjeBPB1PUHGjA&bvm=bv.83339334,d.eXY

The last nail in that coffin read dude read.

@tormentos: Ron picked a bad example to prove his point. But that PDF does explain how PRT's can be read to main memory. Judging by the fact that PRT first came to PC and all PC GPU's share a portion of system memory, it would be safe to say that PRT would be able to use that ram also. There is no point in PC GPU's not being able to use system ram for PRT's, unlike normal textures resident textures are really small so it would not be as hard for the CPU to handle them.

Like I said when this PDF came out AMD's target was PC so I highly doubt they developed PRT to use just one memory pool when all PC's have more than one memory pool.

Well yeah man, that's SW for ya. Piss poor debate skills and feigned technical knowledge.

Thanks for the layman's breakdown though.

I'm perfectly content pushing polys, UVing them into digital road kill and then spraying them down with pixels in power-of-2 space.

I don't mind lite scripting, but as far as programming goes...

PRT are textures that have only portions of the texture stored in GPU VIDEO MEMORY.

Plain and simple it doesn't need 2 memory pools and it doesn't work better with 2 memory pools that shit came from morons like misterxmedia not from AMD,PC have 2 memory pools but they don't work like the xbox one memory system work,memory for the GPU is taken from Vram on GPU.

Read to main memory is not the same as STORING, textures are partially store on Vram on system ram you can't store partial textures is only on Vram so your example is once again irrelevant.

Time to move on nothing the xbox one do will change that is under power vs the PS4 nothing,it will still getting inferior games in 2020..

In PRT the textures aren't very small in fact they can be as big as 32GB is the way they are broken and use the real difference.

Torfaggo is getting torn apart in this thread. his copy past bullshit just isn't cutting it.

@ronvalencia said:

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

Just gonna leave this here to show the ignorance of ron valencia, 9800gt with tiled resources, ROFL.

We'll see. I'm not the one who's typing walls of text because their scared of the future. We have walls and walls of text from you to continue the ownage you have already been receiving. My alt starts with an "X", not a "B". Heil86 knows my alt. This year is going to be fun.

Oh heli doesn't know this one..hahahaa

No you are the one making silly claims about NDA hardware...hahahahaaaa

@tormentos said:

@blackace said:

We'll see. I'm not the one who's typing walls of text because their scared of the future. We have walls and walls of text from you to continue the ownage you have already been receiving. My alt starts with an "X", not a "B". Heil86 knows my alt. This year is going to be fun.

Oh heli doesn't know this one..hahahaa

No you are the one making silly claims about NDA hardware...hahahahaaaa

@Bishop1310 said:

Torfaggo is getting torn apart in this thread. his copy past bullshit just isn't cutting it.

hahahahha my god, what a forum warrior. This guy needs hobbies.

To people who are still think DX12 won't be a game changer on XB1.......

........then they are dead wrong. Here are some of the quotes from a Metro Redux dev who had stated that DX12 API will be a "Paradigm-shift" in API design:

Digital Foundry: What's your take on DirectX 12 and Mantle? Is it all about making PC games development tie in more closely with Xbox One and PlayStation 4?

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised)

In general - I don't really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console.

As for DX12 and Mantle, aside from them being much more close to the (modern) metal, those APIs are a paradigm-shift in API design. DX11 was 'I will keep track of everything for you'. DX12 says 'now it's your responsibility' - so it could be a much thinner layer. As for Mantle, it is a temporary API, in my honest opinion.

Digital Foundry: To what extent will DX12 prove useful on Xbox One? Isn't there already a low CPU overhead there in addressing the GPU?

Oles Shishkovstov: No, it's important. All the dependency tracking takes a huge slice of CPU power. And if we are talking about the multi-threaded command buffer chunks generation - the DX11 model was essentially a 'flop', while DX12 should be the right one.

"Plain and simple it doesn't need 2 memory pools and it doesn't work better with 2 memory pools that shit came from morons like misterxmedia not from AMD,PC have 2 memory pools but they don't work like the xbox one memory system work,memory for the GPU is taken from Vram on GPU.

Read to main memory is not the same as STORING, textures are partially store on Vram on system ram you can't store partial textures is only on Vram so your example is once again irrelevant."

this does not mean what you think it means.

@tormentos said:

@slimdogmilionar said:

@tormentos: Ron picked a bad example to prove his point. But that PDF does explain how PRT's can be read to main memory. Judging by the fact that PRT first came to PC and all PC GPU's share a portion of system memory, it would be safe to say that PRT would be able to use that ram also. There is no point in PC GPU's not being able to use system ram for PRT's, unlike normal textures resident textures are really small so it would not be as hard for the CPU to handle them.

Like I said when this PDF came out AMD's target was PC so I highly doubt they developed PRT to use just one memory pool when all PC's have more than one memory pool.

PRT are textures that have only portions of the texture stored in GPU VIDEO MEMORY.

Plain and simple it doesn't need 2 memory pools and it doesn't work better with 2 memory pools that shit came from morons like misterxmedia not from AMD,PC have 2 memory pools but they don't work like the xbox one memory system work,memory for the GPU is taken from Vram on GPU.

Read to main memory is not the same as STORING, textures are partially store on Vram on system ram you can't store partial textures is only on Vram so your example is once again irrelevant.

Time to move on nothing the xbox one do will change that is under power vs the PS4 nothing,it will still getting inferior games in 2020..

In PRT the textures aren't very small in fact they can be as big as 32GB is the way they are broken and use the real difference.

Damn it Tormentos, why must you ruin every single promising tech thread with your nonsense?

If you can't fathom why "PRT are textures that have only portions of the texture stored in GPU VIDEO MEMORY." implies two memory pools, you have no business in this thread.

the problem with xbox 1 games isn't the cpu performance

its the GPU and the ram

the graphics card isn't throwing out more pixels go look at GTA 5 or other games with dirt flying on the screen

ps4 graphics card is making more dirt and grass on the tv screen thats all u need to know

and the ram it takes me about 10 seconds to go into DA:I menu the ps4 version goes into the menus much quicker

microsoft has not been paying devs to make parity the devs are just doing more with the ps4 and screwing over xbox 1 constantly with the games it feels like they just build it on ps4 and do as much as they can with the xbox one version

RAM matters man good ram means a menu loads faster or less stutter, ram is king of gaming and GPU is king also more stuff on the screen more shaders better lookin colors

cpu is just cpu i don't care if it got 1 core boost i just dont care did GPU a 1 core booster did the ram get 1 core boost if not dont even talk to me microsoft dont even pick up the phone call me when u fix the other 2 things

@ProtossRushX:

'No is not dude and the PS4 also has DMA'

He never said he didn't, he just questioned the logic of them being there

'The PS4 is stronger and that is how it is going to be all gen long,no secret sauce,DX12 or cloud will change that..'

Nowhere in his post did he say it wasn't or that it was going to change

You must be reading a different post because he never said any of the shit you are trying to debunk.

You cows are obviously extremely paranoid, someone posts and article about something the Xbone can do, they say nothing about it making the Xbone more powerful than the Ps4 yet you guys seem to think that by posting the article they are somehow implying that when they are not.

You accuse him of not knowing shit yet clearly you don't even know how to read properly, your reading comprehension is worse than my 8 year old kids and the school keep telling me he's behind for his age.

You basically just reamed a guy out for saying stuff he didn't actually say,The kind of thing B4X would do, well done.

Good gameplay> Mediocre gameplay=Good graphics.

What's the point? we can do this all day but Fast robby was actually right, Gameplay should ALWAYS take precedence over graphics, Killzone shadow fall being a good case of what happens when it isn't.

@Krelian-co said:

@ronvalencia said:

Note the Total Available Graphics Memory.

Xbox One's DX11.X Tiled Resource is slightly different from PC's DX.2 Tiled Resource.

Just gonna leave this here to show the ignorance of ron valencia, 9800gt with tiled resources, ROFL.

Again, my point was for PC's shared memory features. 9800 picture is the quickness quickest picture I can grab for my share memory point since I was posting my 8 inch tablet and I don't have my desktop nor my gaming laptop.

PC's graphics shared memory's existence hardly changed from DX10 to DX11.2.

@tormentos

From http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/28/directx-11-2/

DX11.2's Tiled Resource,

Designed to allow a game to use both system RAM and graphics RAM to store textures, Leblond claimed that tiled resources will enable DirectX 11.2 games to vastly improve the resolution of textures displayed in-game. By way of proof, Leblond showed off a demonstration that used a claimed 9GB of texture data - the majority of which was held in system RAM, rather than graphics RAM.

"I'm not a detective... but I play one in SystemWars."- Tormentos

wow a ronvalencia throwdown, havent seen one of those in a while. Has he busted out all the charts and figures yet?