XBOX LIVE - The ONLY reason why it is a PAID service.

[QUOTE="Deiuos"]Second, XBL is a paid service because of bandwidth.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Deiuos"]Second, XBL is a paid service because of bandwidth.Deiuos

the only thing i agree with is that it should not be FORCED on you

they should have an xbox live "lite" service that only connects you p2p, but the downloads are slow - no premium features etc.

[QUOTE="Deiuos"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Most XBL games use PTP, in other words, the players are hosting and taking care of bandwidth. Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Deiuos"]Second, XBL is a paid service because of bandwidth.Deiuos

... I guess were lucky Steam or any other site (youtube) don't charge us for bandwidth...

[QUOTE="Deiuos"] PSN charges the publishers. Though, in return, they get less content than XBL, so the XBL users kind of get a benefit. Vandalvideo

When I was a web designer for a couple of years, the heavy prices of building a website also came from the need to help pay for my office, phone, and server bill. Youtube has operating costs, and they're going the PSN route, and getting the money from some other means rather than the end user.

XBL could be free by adding more advertisements, like MySpace. Though, users don't like that all that much, so they keep ads at a minimum.

[QUOTE="Deiuos"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Most XBL games use PTP, in other words, the players are hosting and taking care of bandwidth. Bebi_vegeta

... I guess were lucky Steam or any other site (youtube) don't charge us for bandwidth...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Deiuos"]Second, XBL is a paid service because of bandwidth.Deiuos

As I think about it, perhaps the simplest solution for Microsoft to fix this "Live Gold" conumdrum would be to allow for Silver users to play online...but only under sets of conditions. These conditions could be anything from limiting certain game types or times to "back of the line" queueing to not allowing certain auxiliary features and so on. IOW, allow Silver gamers to play, but make it seriously bare-bones. For the true cheapskates (who wouldn't pay for Live Gold if their lives depended on it), they would probably be willing to put up with the hoop-jumping if it means playing for free. It removes the problem of "having to pay to play" and "getting half the game for full price" while still providing a pretty good incentive to step up (the removal of those limitations), and it would probably have little effect on existing customers since they know they still get the better experience.

PS. And it's not like this is unprecedented. It's a tried-and-tested revenue model of websites--not necessarily GameSpot (they go for the ad-free value-added model), but it's not too hard to think of sites that use this system.

I believe their are a few reasons, one being a continued revenue stream. (most obvious)

But the underlying, less apparent reason would be the membership effect.

Most people, not all, who pay for a service/product instinctively perceive it to have more value. Some of this mentality is to justify the expense, some of it is a defencive reaction to the group they belong to.

SW is a prime example of how someone will react when a person attacks that persons choice of spending.

I honestly feel that people would not perceive XBLG to be as valuable if not for the cost. MS may be many things, but a marketing slouch, they are not.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="enygma500"]It's amazing how you turned this into an arguement about games ratehr then an arguement about the FACT that live should be free.enygma500

Okay, you keep on paying for nothing and i'll keep laughing at your foolishness.

it's fact, there's nothing you can do or say to change my mind on this topic.

I believe their are a few reasons, one being a continued revenue stream. (most obvious)

But the underlying, less apparent reason would be the membership effect.

Most people, not all, who pay for a service/product instinctively perceive it to have more value. Some of this mentality is to justify the expense, some of it is a defencive reaction to the group they belong to.

SW is a prime example of how someone will react when a person attacks that persons choice of spending.

I honestly feel that people would not perceive XBLG to be as valuable if not for the cost. MS may be many things, but a marketing slouch, they are not.

FragTycoon

[QUOTE="Deiuos"] PSN charges the publishers. Though, in return, they get less content than XBL, so the XBL users kind of get a benefit. Vandalvideo

GFW live online play was always free, the only thing you needed to pay for was cross-platform play, and a few other features not available with any other service provider on PC at the time, when those things became free on GFW live they did aswell for XBL. GFW live and XBL also have two different online models where as GFW live online is maintained through users, and Dev's. While XBL is mostly maintained by Microsoft who run most of the servers and send out dev tools to developers.

[QUOTE="chaoz-king"]

"It's cool to pay to play a game you already payed for."

Kidits $4.50 a mounth to play some games with my friends. I could care less if it was for free or paid.

enygma500

The money has never been the problem.

I always love it when lemming say that to cows.

Lemmings: "what live costs too much?"

Cows:"Our console is $200 more then yours, why would money be an issue?"

It's that fact that you pay for your internet and you paid for the game. then M$ charges you for the right to use either. it's crap.

Exactly, money isnt the issue here, its the principal of it all. And lemmings argue that its worth it because it has like 1 or 2 extra features more than PSN but they never point out that argument is invalid because the exact same service is on PC and its asolutely free!!!.

I was actually referring to things like super fast servers for downloading, like the ability to download a 2 gigabyte demo in like 10 minutes - whereas that would take all day on playstation

cross game voice and video chat, friends lists, you can go on game websites and download things to your console because everything is all integrated from the microsoft servers, i've got like 500 voice messages on my account stored which i should delete probably..,. lots of nifty little services, community games

everythings just all connected, i bring up a game and it compares me to all my friends highscores, you can jump in game to game through instant invites

i know im forgetting stuff nobody is arguing that XBL does more than PSN - but the actual stuff that costs them money is just storage for all the mail features, and the dedicated super fast servers for everything on the marketplace

BobSacamento

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="Deiuos"] What about the game demos, movies, and other DLC? How are the bandwidth for those being paid for? There's surely no player hosting in that area.

HuusAsking

... I guess were lucky Steam or any other site (youtube) don't charge us for bandwidth...

Well... it's kind of the same thing for XBL while playing a game... since it's hosted by a user, instead of a server.

[QUOTE="snapppy"] You can not download 2gb in 10 mins.SpruceCaboose

You'd only need a 35Mbps connection... which is doable today.

the guy in charge of XBL is a genius, making people believe that PAYING to PLAY a game you already PAID for is 'cool'.

People ALWAYS forget that 'XBOX LIVE' is also on PC, ALL its FEATURES, and EVERYTHING, I repeat the EXACT SAME LIVE on XBOX is the EXACT SAME THING ON PC, yet, initially they wanted to CHARGE PC gamers, but PC gamers as smart as they are, REFUSED to PAY, thats why 'XBOX LIVE' on PC is 100% FREE. yet they still charge 360 players, why because 360 players are willing to pay, so why should they stop.

FACT: if every 360 gamers refuses to PAY for LIVE, MS will make it FREE. but people just cant get enough of Halo and Gears, and MS knows this, thats why MS will forever keep charging 360 gamers for XBL.

Anyone who thinks MS CANT AFFORD to make it FREE, or the FEES the gamers PAY actually help them make it a better service, is either a kid, teen or a complete idiot.

so why is XBL a paid service? because people refuse NOT to pay for it. nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you for reading. please feel free to agree, disagree, flame, ice, shield or whatever.

xxThyLordxx

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="enygma500"]It's amazing how you turned this into an arguement about games ratehr then an arguement about the FACT that live should be free.enygma500

Okay, you keep on paying for nothing and i'll keep laughing at your foolishness.

it's fact, there's nothing you can do or say to change my mind on this topic.

[QUOTE="enygma500"]

[QUOTE="chaoz-king"]

"It's cool to pay to play a game you already payed for."

Kidits $4.50 a mounth to play some games with my friends. I could care less if it was for free or paid.

bri360

The money has never been the problem.

I always love it when lemming say that to cows.

Lemmings: "what live costs too much?"

Cows:"Our console is $200 more then yours, why would money be an issue?"

It's that fact that you pay for your internet and you paid for the game. then M$ charges you for the right to use either. it's crap.

Exactly, money isnt the issue here, its the principal of it all. And Cows argue that the PS3 is worth it because it has like 1 or 2 extra features more than the 360 but they never point out that argument is invalid because nearly the exact same service is on 360 and its cheaper!!!

[QUOTE="angelkimne"][QUOTE="Catpee"]

Such as?

finalstar2007

All of those stuff are on sony's ps3 for FREE

Why don't people understand that nothing is forced down our 360owners throath? You are not forced to pay for online (I go without sometimes) and there's different fees depending on what you want.

kendrene

[QUOTE="kendrene"]

Why don't people understand that nothing is forced down our 360owners throath? You are not forced to pay for online (I go without sometimes) and there's different fees depending on what you want.

Midnightshade29

I refuse to pay for live

[QUOTE="chaoz-king"]

"It's cool to pay to play a game you already payed for."

Kidits $4.50 a mounth to play some games with my friends. I could care less if it was for free or paid.

The money has never been the problem.

I always love it when lemming say that to cows.

Lemmings: "what live costs too much?"

Cows:"Our console is $200 more then yours, why would money be an issue?"

It's that fact that you pay for your internet and you paid for the game. then M$ charges you for the right to use either. it's crap.

It's garbage..but what are you proposing?...Rally all the XBL gold members and not renew the service? So I just renewed so I should then call MS and demand they cancel the service and then "wait" until all X millions of people do the same thing? That's realistic? Far from it for me..LIVE has advanced to far for that to ever happen....PSN has a higher chance of turning into a paid service than XBL has of becoming free..

I refuse to pay for live

voxware00

Thank you for reading. please feel free to agree, disagree, flame, ice, shield or whatever.

xxThyLordxx

[QUOTE="Doolz2024"]People refuse to NOT pay for XBL? :shock:xxThyLordxx

It's garbage..but what are you proposing?...Rally all the XBL gold members and not renew the service? So I just renewed so I should then call MS and demand they cancel the service and then "wait" until all X millions of people do the same thing? That's realistic? Far from it for me..LIVE has advanced to far for that to ever happen....PSN has a higher chance of turning into a paid service than XBL has of becoming free..

masiisam

Totally original topic from a known cow :roll: The mods should just create an XBL sticky thread.

$30/yr for XBL is nothing to me and I feel I get my money's worth.

I got dawn of war 2 (my first games for windows game)yesterday and thought the exact same thing. i recived messages from my friends who were on the 360, my acivements went to my 360 gamer tag, its the same thingbut its free.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Deiuos"] PSN charges the publishers. Though, in return, they get less content than XBL, so the XBL users kind of get a benefit. Deiuos

When I was a web designer for a couple of years, the heavy prices of building a website also came from the need to help pay for my office, phone, and server bill. Youtube has operating costs, and they're going the PSN route, and getting the money from some other means rather than the end user.

XBL could be free by adding more advertisements, like MySpace. Though, users don't like that all that much, so they keep ads at a minimum.

[QUOTE="Deiuos"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Because publishers are accessing, willingly, the service. If you're going to offer an optional service like demos and movies then you don't charge the average end user. You add on the price of that overhead through the actual service itself. It is a malicious business practice to make people who aren't accessing said services to pay for them in the process of accessing other services. For instance, let us say I ran a hotel. You, as a customer, never ask for the exclusive membership for the pool area. I, however, add the operating costs of pool access onto your bill anyway. Wouldn't you get extremely angry that I am making you pay for services that you aren't necessarily using?Lance_Kalzas

When I was a web designer for a couple of years, the heavy prices of building a website also came from the need to help pay for my office, phone, and server bill. Youtube has operating costs, and they're going the PSN route, and getting the money from some other means rather than the end user.

XBL could be free by adding more advertisements, like MySpace. Though, users don't like that all that much, so they keep ads at a minimum.

[QUOTE="kendrene"]

Why don't people understand that nothing is forced down our 360owners throath? You are not forced to pay for online (I go without sometimes) and there's different fees depending on what you want.

Midnightshade29

I have to send in my Xbox 360 every other month for repairs? Wow, I had no idea I had to do that. Seems to be working just fine to me. Seriously though, instead of exaggerating, why don't you post some factual information instead?

[QUOTE="Lance_Kalzas"][QUOTE="Deiuos"] Absolutely, which is why I'd go to another service, like PSN -- like users are doing now. Though, millions of services out there make you pay for operating costs -- mainly internet services, which is what XBL is.

When I was a web designer for a couple of years, the heavy prices of building a website also came from the need to help pay for my office, phone, and server bill. Youtube has operating costs, and they're going the PSN route, and getting the money from some other means rather than the end user.

XBL could be free by adding more advertisements, like MySpace. Though, users don't like that all that much, so they keep ads at a minimum.

Deiuos

You're right, it does require the internet to function but that would also mean it's not an internet service. Using your AIM example, that is also not an internet service, it's a messaging service.

[QUOTE="Deiuos"][QUOTE="Lance_Kalzas"] Xbox Live is not an internet service. Verizon FIOS is, as an example. Xbox Live is a gaming service.Lance_Kalzas

You're right, it does require the internet to function but that would also mean it's not an internet service. Using your AIM example, that is also not an internet service, it's a messaging service.

You really think it takes a lot of money to fun XBL LMAO. snapppy

Since you know exactly what the monthly, quarterly and annual overhead/costs are for Xbox Live Gold, can you post those statistics in this thread? I'm curious as to what they are.