Xbox One and PS4 CPU less than a quarter the grunt of a Core i5-3570K

Consoles have finally caught up to PCs in graphics processing capability. This means cross-plat games will start to get better.SKaREO

they have gotten closer but by no means have they "caught up" at best that is hyperbole in reality just wishful thinking.  Console archetecture will have more to do with multi-plat games being better than the new consoles power.

[QUOTE="clyde46"] You seem to think that people on this forum run mediocre rigs....tormentos

You seem to think that every one runs a setup even close to yours or better...

You will be surprice just like i was when i learn here that many did not even beat the 7850 spec wise on thise forums,including some very vocal anti PS hermits,believing steam stats is not even that hard how many damn games on PC use more than 4 core CPU.?

When on consoles since 2005 it is the norm 3 core 6 threads or 1 ppe 7 SPE,the computer market is greatly segregated thanks to the endless cards been sold,CPU and other hardware,most people don't buy a PC to upgrade every 2 years you should know that,the fact that dual core is the most used CPU on steam says it all.

But since when this forum = the world.?

Second, currently we are still playing games designed mostly in line with the 360 and PS3 so there is no need to have a beefy rig to run those games at console settings, as of today, an i5 and a 7850 or the Nvidia eleqvient will happily run pretty much anything out there. This of course will change as the next gen looms, as more games become multithreaded but as it stands, most PC gamers are going to be OK in terms of hardware.

Lastly, whether or not a PC gamer chooses to upgrade will depend on what goes he/she likes to play vs the level of performance they are willing to accept. If you have someone who only plays TF2, there's not much point for them to be running a 3970x and a GTX Titan when a E8400 and a GTX260 is more than enough. Console users are stuck with the same level of hardware throughout the gen so by the end of the gen's we are seeing a massive gap in performance, now I will admit I'm looking forward to the next gen as it will help push forward tech and other tech related things.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

No, i mean your english is so terrible that it hard to decipher what the hell you are saying

tormentos

Interesting you had no problem understanding that last post...mmm

Just because your single sentence post was understandable, doesn't make that indecipherable mess you posted previously anymore readable

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

you seem to think that any of this matters when it comes down to which platform is better

tormentos

What does that has to do with it.?

You poeple just have a hard time admiting that most PC gamers don't have top end machines or close.

No, it doesn't surprise me at all, especially based off of steam stats. It's just mostly irrelevant 

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Why do people keep relying on Steam stats? Even when non gaming PCs have it.

tormentos

because tormentos

So in what me most rely on your biased ass opinion or his.? :cool:

Steam stats >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>> HIm and the Hermit parade,at least they take data summited to them by people who use it..

Funny enough when the topic is which is a better service,PSN,live or steam all of you hype steam like it is god like,but when steam show most of you love to talk specs,but don't support those specs with your wallet then steams stats sucks and is unreliable..:lol:

Can't have it oth ways hermits..

.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

you seem to think that any of this matters when it comes down to which platform is better

tormentos

What does that has to do with it.?

You poeple just have a hard time admiting that most PC gamers don't have top end machines or close.

As we've already told you time and time again, the Steam stats are not considered a piece of complete evidence. The stats are taken from the entire Steam user database but they are not all unique entries as the survey can be complied from the same user ID across multiple machines. Yes you can use them in part with other evidence but to use them as your sole basis for an argument is flawed at best.

Second, currently we are still playing games designed mostly in line with the 360 and PS3 so there is no need to have a beefy rig to run those games at console settings, as of today, an i5 and a 7850 or the Nvidia eleqvient will happily run pretty much anything out there. This of course will change as the next gen looms, as more games become multithreaded but as it stands, most PC gamers are going to be OK in terms of hardware.

Lastly, whether or not a PC gamer chooses to upgrade will depend on what goes he/she likes to play vs the level of performance they are willing to accept. If you have someone who only plays TF2, there's not much point for them to be running a 3970x and a GTX Titan when a E8400 and a GTX260 is more than enough. Console users are stuck with the same level of hardware throughout the gen so by the end of the gen's we are seeing a massive gap in performance, now I will admit I'm looking forward to the next gen as it will help push forward tech and other tech related things.

clyde46

Steam is basically the only one,and you people refuse to admit it because like any other fanboy you refuse to admit something that doesn't favor your argument.

Oh please haven't you people favorite song been the one that sing we have been playing with next gen graphics for years.?

Now you want to act like consoles are holding people up.? Please.

No matter what you chose next year something stronger will be out,so not buying a PS4 because is not the strongest gaming device,means you most get nothing but the best because the same argument that apply to the PS4 apply to any PC card if you are not gaming on the very best why even argue graphics..

PC gaming isn't like console gaming. There are hundreds upon hundreds of indie titles on Steam that can run on pretty much anything. There are also millions upon millions of Steam users, just recently over 5.5 million online at once. The Steam hardware survey does not reflect what devs cater to. If it did, you would never see PC games like Crysis and Metro Last Light that look utterly stunning. Plagueless

Steam stats reflect what the majority of the user base has,period which is under power hardware is very simple.

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

As we've already told you time and time again, the Steam stats are not considered a piece of complete evidence. The stats are taken from the entire Steam user database but they are not all unique entries as the survey can be complied from the same user ID across multiple machines. Yes you can use them in part with other evidence but to use them as your sole basis for an argument is flawed at best.

Second, currently we are still playing games designed mostly in line with the 360 and PS3 so there is no need to have a beefy rig to run those games at console settings, as of today, an i5 and a 7850 or the Nvidia eleqvient will happily run pretty much anything out there. This of course will change as the next gen looms, as more games become multithreaded but as it stands, most PC gamers are going to be OK in terms of hardware.

Lastly, whether or not a PC gamer chooses to upgrade will depend on what goes he/she likes to play vs the level of performance they are willing to accept. If you have someone who only plays TF2, there's not much point for them to be running a 3970x and a GTX Titan when a E8400 and a GTX260 is more than enough. Console users are stuck with the same level of hardware throughout the gen so by the end of the gen's we are seeing a massive gap in performance, now I will admit I'm looking forward to the next gen as it will help push forward tech and other tech related things.

tormentos

Steam is basically the only one,and you people refuse to admit it because like any other fanboy you refuse to admit something that doesn't favor your argument.

Oh please haven't you people favorite song been the one that sing we have been playing with next gen graphics for years.?

Now you want to act like consoles are holding people up.? Please.

No matter what you chose next year something stronger will be out,so not buying a PS4 because is not the strongest gaming device,means you most get nothing but the best because the same argument that apply to the PS4 apply to any PC card if you are not gaming on the very best why even argue graphics..

based just on specs, you don't have to buy the best GPU available to beat a PS4

[QUOTE="Plagueless"] PC gaming isn't like console gaming. There are hundreds upon hundreds of indie titles on Steam that can run on pretty much anything. There are also millions upon millions of Steam users, just recently over 5.5 million online at once. The Steam hardware survey does not reflect what devs cater to. If it did, you would never see PC games like Crysis and Metro Last Light that look utterly stunning. tormentos

Steam stats reflect what the majority of the user base has,period which is under power hardware is very simple.

what is the point of this argument?

[QUOTE="Plagueless"] PC gaming isn't like console gaming. There are hundreds upon hundreds of indie titles on Steam that can run on pretty much anything. There are also millions upon millions of Steam users, just recently over 5.5 million online at once. The Steam hardware survey does not reflect what devs cater to. If it did, you would never see PC games like Crysis and Metro Last Light that look utterly stunning. tormentos

Steam stats reflect what the majority of the user base has,period which is under power hardware is very simple.

[QUOTE="clyde46"] You seem to think that people on this forum run mediocre rigs....tormentos

You seem to think that every one runs a setup even close to yours or better...

You will be surprice just like i was when i learn here that many did not even beat the 7850 spec wise on thise forums,including some very vocal anti PS hermits,believing steam stats is not even that hard how many damn games on PC use more than 4 core CPU.?

When on consoles since 2005 it is the norm 3 core 6 threads or 1 ppe 7 SPE,the computer market is greatly segregated thanks to the endless cards been sold,CPU and other hardware,most people don't buy a PC to upgrade every 2 years you should know that,the fact that dual core is the most used CPU on steam says it all.

But since when this forum = the world.?

PS3 was released a few days after Geforce 8800 i.e. PS3/CELL is not a 2005 release.

PC's GPU handles most of the rasterization workloads which makes it different to PS3's workload mix.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] Can I see the source? PS4's GPU architecture is pure GCN. 64 Stream Processors for every GCN Compute Unit.tormentos

Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, weve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

I am not talking about CU,GCN has 2 Aces  2CL's for a total of 4 compute commands,the PS4 has 8 Aces 8 CL's for a total of 64 compute commands,is one of the customization done.

My Mini-ITX PC has two GPUs i.e. Intel HD 3000 and AMD Radeon HD 7950 1Ghz. The Intel HD 3000 IGP is active for Intel Quick Sync.ronvalencia

And.?

I find funny that the intel HD 3000 stay active doesn't your 7950 take charge once installed.? Because that is what happen when you put a PCIE GPU integrated video gets disable and you get the slot one.

 

PS3 was released a few days after Geforce 8800 i.e. PS3/CELL is not a 2005 release.

PC's GPU handles most of the rasterization workloads which makes it different to PS3's workload mix.

ronvalencia

The 360 was,and cell was ready on 2005,remember that what stalled the PS3 launch was bluray diode shortage,not Cell was more than ready on 2005 and running on dev kits,and the 360 was also out that year.

Get your facts right.

ARE you claiming PC GCN's frontend can not saturate it's compute units?ronvalencia

Man WTF you are the damn king of replying to things never imply,either you are japanese,or your damn laguage is not English is impossible that you reply with something so stupid is very simple.

GCN has 4 compute commands, 2 Aces 2 CL's,the PS4 GPU was customize so that it has 64 compute commands 8 Aces and 8 CL's is very simple,the PS4 GPU was modify for heavy use of compute which has been stated since day 1,now try to pretend that you know more than Mark Cerny about the damn PS4.

 

what is the point of this argument?

lostrib

Simple most PC gamers have under power hardware vs the PS4.. :lol:

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

what is the point of this argument?

tormentos

Simple most PC gamers have under power hardware vs the PS4.. :lol:

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

what is the point of this argument?

tormentos

Simple most PC gamers have under power hardware vs the PS4.. :lol:

okay and there are many pc gamers with more powerful hardware than the PS4.  I don't really see a point to this argument

As a platform, the PC has better graphics, better performance, more games, more high scored games, more options

Continually bringing up steam stats is not going to change that

xb1/ps4 is DOA...............fap it.....

i have a I7 3960x,690gtx and a 512 samsung ssd.................fap it...

i have a I7 3960x,690gtx and a 512 samsung ssd.................fap it...

tionmedon

good for you?

i have a I7 3960x,690gtx and a 512 samsung ssd.................fap it...

tionmedon

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]My Mini-ITX PC has two GPUs i.e. Intel HD 3000 and AMD Radeon HD 7950 1Ghz. The Intel HD 3000 IGP is active for Intel Quick Sync.tormentos

And.?

I find funny that the intel HD 3000 stay active doesn't your 7950 take charge once installed.? Because that is what happen when you put a PCIE GPU integrated video gets disable and you get the slot one.

 Or his mini-itx build could simply have a laptop style motherboard that allows for gpu switching.

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

As we've already told you time and time again, the Steam stats are not considered a piece of complete evidence. The stats are taken from the entire Steam user database but they are not all unique entries as the survey can be complied from the same user ID across multiple machines. Yes you can use them in part with other evidence but to use them as your sole basis for an argument is flawed at best.

Second, currently we are still playing games designed mostly in line with the 360 and PS3 so there is no need to have a beefy rig to run those games at console settings, as of today, an i5 and a 7850 or the Nvidia eleqvient will happily run pretty much anything out there. This of course will change as the next gen looms, as more games become multithreaded but as it stands, most PC gamers are going to be OK in terms of hardware.

Lastly, whether or not a PC gamer chooses to upgrade will depend on what goes he/she likes to play vs the level of performance they are willing to accept. If you have someone who only plays TF2, there's not much point for them to be running a 3970x and a GTX Titan when a E8400 and a GTX260 is more than enough. Console users are stuck with the same level of hardware throughout the gen so by the end of the gen's we are seeing a massive gap in performance, now I will admit I'm looking forward to the next gen as it will help push forward tech and other tech related things.

tormentos

Steam is basically the only one,and you people refuse to admit it because like any other fanboy you refuse to admit something that doesn't favor your argument.

Oh please haven't you people favorite song been the one that sing we have been playing with next gen graphics for years.?

Now you want to act like consoles are holding people up.? Please.

No matter what you chose next year something stronger will be out,so not buying a PS4 because is not the strongest gaming device,means you most get nothing but the best because the same argument that apply to the PS4 apply to any PC card if you are not gaming on the very best why even argue graphics..

Of course the best part of PC gaming is the next gen visuals but not everyone can afford the latest and greatest, a i5 and a 7850 will max anything today and 1080p. Consoles are holding the industry back as its been said many times by developers. Use your common sense here if you actually have any.

Why are we excluding people from talking about graphics on the PC unless they own a powerhouse PC themselves? Am I not allowed to talk about supercars because I don't own a Zonda or a Ferrari?

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] Can I see the source? PS4's GPU architecture is pure GCN. 64 Stream Processors for every GCN Compute Unit.tormentos

Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, weve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

I am not talking about CU,GCN has 2 Aces  2CL's for a total of 4 compute commands,the PS4 has 8 Aces 8 CL's for a total of 64 compute commands,is one of the customization done.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

what is the point of this argument?

tormentos

Simple most PC gamers have under power hardware vs the PS4.. :lol:

For now, but the PS4 is also not out.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

 

what is the point of this argument?

Bebi_vegeta

Simple most PC gamers have under power hardware vs the PS4.. :lol:

For now, but the PS4 is also not out.

 Or how about the fact that consoler's that have consoles that are way slower then the PS4 and gaming PC's :lol:

04dcarraher

Yep that is right but what is the problem with that,the new gen start this year,by the way you are part of those who are under power vs the mighty PS4..:lol:

You are part of Steam stats elite 560Ti team..

Cheers..

 

okay and there are many pc gamers with more powerful hardware than the PS4.  I don't really see a point to this argument

As a platform, the PC has better graphics, better performance, more games, more high scored games, more options

Continually bringing up steam stats is not going to change that

lostrib

Yeah that is true but sadly they are the huge minority.

Really go to gamerankings to 20 rated games and tell me how many are consoles and how many are from PC..:lol:

Piledriver core (CPU used in Trinity) is designed for high clock speeds (turbo up to 4.3 GHz, overclock up to 8 GHz). In order to reach such high clocks, several sacrifices had to be made. The CPU pipelines had to be made longer, because there's less time to finish each pipeline stage (as clock cycles are shorter). The cache latencies are longer, because there's less time to move data around the chip (during a single clock cycle). The L1 caches are also simpler (less associativity) compared to Jaguar (and Intel designs). In order to combat the IPC loss of these sacrifices, some parts of the chip needed to be beefed up: The ROBs must be larger (more TLP is required to fill longer pipelines, more TLP is required to hide longer cache latencies / more often occurring misses because of lower L1 cache associativity) and the branch predictor must be better (since long pipeline causes more severe branch mis-predict penalties). All these extra transistors (and extra power) are needed just to negate the IPC loss caused by the high clock headroom.

Jaguar compute unit (4 cores) has same theoretical peak performance per clock as a two module (4 core) Piledriver. Jaguar has shorter pipelines and better caches (less latency, more associativity). Piledriver has slightly larger ROBs and slightly better branch predictor. But these are required to negate the disadvantages in the cache design and the pipeline length. The per module shared floating point pipeline in Piledriver is very good for single threaded tasks, but for multithreaded workloads, the module design is a hindrance, because of various bottlenecks (shared 2-way L1 instruction cache and shared instruction decode). Steamroller will solve some of these bottlenecks (before end of this year?), but it's still too early to discuss about it yet (with the limited information available).

Jaguar and Piledriver IPC will be in the same ballpark. However when running these chips at low clocks (<19W) all the transistors spent in Piledriver design that allow the high clock ceiling are wasted, but all the disadvantages are still present. Thus Piledriver needs more power and more chip area to reach similar performance than Jaguar. There's no way around this. Jaguar core has better performance per watt.

My guess:
- Multi threaded workload (GPU stressed): Jaguar wins by +10% (because of clock difference: 1.6 GHz vs 1.815 GHz)
- Multi threaded workload (GPU idle): Tie(depends highly on how much PD can turbo clock in this case)
- Single threaded workload (GPU idle): PD wins by up to +50% (single core in PD module runs up to 20% faster when the other core is idling + PD can turbo clock to 2.4 GHz when only a single core is active).

GPU performance difference is impossible to estimate at this point, because we do not yet know exact details about the Temash/Kabini APU configurations. However Jaguar core takes (considerably) less die space and consumes slightly less power than a Piledriver core (of similar performance). This means that AMD could equip the Jaguar based APU with a more powerful GPU than Trinity at the same TDP limit. It's all about market segmentation. If AMD plans to place the high end Kabini APUs against Intel's Ultrabook chips, we might see a more powerful GPU (AMD has technology available for this already, just look at the PS4 design). However if AMD sees Kabini as a low end laptop / netbook platform, they are likely going to focus on making a small chip that is cheap to produce, and limit the GPU options to low performance models.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1715619&postcount=155

A very interesting post that i was trying to find for some time,and that should explain to some hy not only MS but sony went with Jaguar.

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"][QUOTE="C_Rule"]This isn't good news for PC gamers, this isn't good news for anyone. It's looking like the next generation of consoles will again be holding back gaming, but this time, right from the beginning. princeofshapeir

the ps3 actually has as much brute power as these new consoles as far as games are concerned.  It's just whether or not developers want to spend the time coding for it around memory bandwith issues.  It just doesn't have the general purpose ability to do a lot of multimedia tasks at the same time.  If you want to play a photorealistic game it's perfectly adequate though.

In the end how much power do you need?   Game development does not require the type of power that is seen in high end pc's.  An i5 is still the best setup you can possibly have even over an i7 as far as gaming is concerned.

All these extra cores and bandwith isn't for gaming.

We aren't going to see a huge leap in performance this gen as far as gaming is concerned.  

The ps4 is doing it right.  It's keeping it's edge as far as raw horsepower and becomnig more streamlined for developers.  IT will also be able to handle multimedia tasks with ease.

The xbox one is capable but still underpowered and is just meeting hte status quo.  MS is hyping up cloud gaming but it's a bunch of baloney. The ps4 is going to have cloud gaming as well.  There aren't suddenly going to be these games that look 40 times better.  Better yes.

Both systems in the end should offer more than enough for what developers need.

The xbox one is just stupid though.  I don't want all the other crap on my console and be restricted as far as what I can play and cant play.  I'll stick with my ps3 as sony continues to support it then get a ps4 once it gets rolling.

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"] so you want SONY and MS to make gaming consoles with the same hardware you'd use for video editing, gaming, and whatever other crap you do with your 3thouand dollar rigs??? So you idiot pc gamers can cry about how expensive the consoles are and tell us to just save money and build rigs??? How does it feel to know that most of you hermits here are jerks who sit on your high end PCs and look down on console gamers? You buy a ferrari and instead of street racing with guys who drive lamborghinis and bugattis you're bragging to camry and nissan drivers about how much better your ferrrari is? Think about it. And also how does it feel that I know your responses will be "he's butthurt?"whathursthemost

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"][QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]

princeofshapeir

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"][QUOTE="whathursthemost"] all I see is a box but good dealwhathursthemost

you fail at reading comprehension, and he's the one that is an idiot?  

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"][QUOTE="princeofshapeir"] Post deleted, but you missed his point C_Rule's point entirely lostrib

you fail at reading comprehension, and he's the one that is an idiot?  

This was obvious anyways to anyone who wasn't a fanboy.....

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"] well you're also a fking idiot. I hate tools who post thier rig specs in their sigs. idiots on G4 do that crap toowhathursthemost

you fail at reading comprehension, and he's the one that is an idiot?  

i was in this thread before you :|

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"][QUOTE="whathursthemost"] all I see is a box but good dealwhathursthemost

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"][QUOTE="princeofshapeir"] Post deleted, but you missed his point C_Rule's point entirely mitu123

Yeah :( I do that for convinience for whenever I have a problem I dont have to always write out my specs :(

Also, I don't see a difference between specs in a sig, and people having sigs in general.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"] well you're also a fking idiot. I hate tools who post thier rig specs in their sigs. idiots on G4 do that crap tooway2funny

Yeah :( I do that for convinience for whenever I have a problem I dont have to always write out my specs :(

Also, I don't see a difference between specs in a sig, and people having sigs in general.

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]Now that isn't cool to say.D=

whathursthemost

Yeah :( I do that for convinience for whenever I have a problem I dont have to always write out my specs :(

Also, I don't see a difference between specs in a sig, and people having sigs in general.

quiet peasant. you will speak only when spoken to. now kiss the ring!

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"][QUOTE="way2funny"]

Yeah :( I do that for convinience for whenever I have a problem I dont have to always write out my specs :(

Also, I don't see a difference between specs in a sig, and people having sigs in general.

lostrib

quiet peasant. you will speak only when spoken to. now kiss the ring!

:lol:

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="whathursthemost"] lol I love pissing PC gamers off...You guys' ego is just too high and my issue with PC gamers is that they come to forums hoping others would bow to their awesome rigs. If you invest thousands of dollars to game that's cool, but if you think it's going to place you higher than other humans on the internet then sorry but epic failmenes777

quiet peasant. you will speak only when spoken to. now kiss the ring!

:lol:

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

quiet peasant. you will speak only when spoken to. now kiss the ring!

whathursthemost

:lol: