Xbox One uses Bonaire entry-level GPU, PS4 uses Pitcairn midrange GPU

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8870M.86798.0.html is where I am assuming you got that 10% performance differential from. That is very flawed so I propose that we choose option 3, none of the above. Those website charts do not tell you the CPU or Memory used in the laptop and they do not tell you what spec of PC the 7770 was in. It also does not include the driver versions because in your BF3 example the High setting shows an increase of 26% but Ultra it is only 10%. Considering the advantages that the 7770 has it is possible that the Ultra test was done on an older set of drivers before the big performance improvement in the never settle drivers. How fuzzy in the details do you want to get? Now for some of your other points. 1) A GCN ROP module consists of 1 Colour ROP and 4 Z/stencil ROPs. That is a fact. If you know how many modules there are (16 in Xbox, 32 in PS4) then you know how many Z/Stencil ROPs there are. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance. 2) Nobody knows the requirements for the Xbox 1 or the PS4 OS at this stage. MS is provisioning 3GB of ram, 2 cores and 10% GPU but I bet that changes over time as they get a better idea of what the minimum actually is. We have no way of not being fuzzy here because not even MS and Sony know exactly what resources will be used which is why MS is over provisioning and will probably reduce this in the future to open up some more performance for games. 4) From what I have read nobody is equating the X1 GPU to the 7770 directly. They are just saying that it is in the performance ball park because the Shader, texture and ROP performance is similar. There are a few differences of course and the X1 GPU is probably slightly faster but we are not using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like' we are using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like RELATIVE to the PS4 (using the 7850 as a surrogate for the PS4 GPU which also has some differences to the PS4 and is infact slightly weaker so these comparisons show the X1 in a better light). 5) The firepro is a workstation class GPU running on a different driver base so it is not 100% comparable. There are some strange results with the W5000 where it out performed the 7850 in BF3 @ 2560x1440. This is obviously a driver bug in the 7850 driver base that is not present in the drivers for the W5000. This is being very fuzzy in the details because you are changing more than just the GPU. 6) It will help with the reduced bandwidth of the X1 but considering the X1 will have good enough bandwidth to feed the GPU having extra data does not really matter in the large scheme of things. Claiming that it will do more for performance than reduce the bandwidth deficit is wishful thinking. 7b) That is comparing different memory capacities at different speeds so I do not see the diminishing returns you are claiming. Bandwidth helps upto the point where the GPU is saturated then it down to the GPU. In both the X1 and the PS4 the bandwidth is sufficient for this to be the case in most scenarios so you do not have any sort of argument here. 8) You mean GDDR5 has higher latency than a L4 cache. Well no shit that a local cache can be accessed in fewer cycles than the GDDR5 meaning small read/writes are indeed improved between the GPU and the cache. Again this is just a bandwidth argument though and if there is enough, which there is, then it stops being a performance benefit. Sticking the memory system of the 7970 onto a 7770 will not greatly increase performance because the GPU does not have enough grunt to make use of the data. Now who is being fuzzy with the details?btk2k2

1. http://techreport.com/review/22192/amd-radeon-hd-7970-graphics-processor/4

eight ROP partitions, each capable of outputting four colored pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels per clock

A "GCN ROP module" can output 4 color pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels.

A GCN ROP module with 1 color pixel + 4 Z/stencil pixels doesn't exist. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance.

If you want talk about "GCN ROP module", then you are wrong. Both 7970 and 7870 has 8 GCN ROP modules.

--------------------

2. Tormentos' OS statement was for CELL. Most of the CELL's power doesn't support supervisior modes. This is nothing to do with PS4.

4. Upscaling it to 18 CUs. I always used "7860" for PS4's GCN.

5. At that point in time, AMD drivers has known issues with BF3.

6. I never claimed it would exceed PS4. Don't put words into my month.

7. My point for http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#2 is, you don't get 1 to 1 performance increase with the memory bandwith increase.

8. X1 doesn't sport 7770 i.e. you do know "primitive per cycle" difference between 7770 vs X1 GPU.

Now who is being fuzzy with the details?

----------------------

notebookcheck 8870M's result was from the following laptops

Samsung 770Z5E-S01DE: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 15.6", 2.4 kg Review » Review Samsung Series 7 Chronos 770Z5E-S01DE Notebook

Samsung 770Z7E-S01DE: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 17.3", 3 kg Review » Review Samsung Series 7 Chronos 770Z7E Notebook

Samsung 770Z5E-S02DE: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 15.6", 2.4 kg External Review » Samsung 770Z5E-S02DE

Samsung 770Z7E-S01DE: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 17.3", 3 kg External Review » Samsung 770Z7E-S01DE

Samsung ATIV 870Z5E-X03DE: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 15.6", 2.2 kg External Review » Samsung ATIV 870Z5E-X03DE

Samsung Series 7 Chronos 770Z5E: Intel Core i7 3635QM, 15.6", 2.4 kg External Review » Samsung Series 7 Chronos 770Z5E

My laptop is similar to Samsung ATIV 870Z5E-X03DE i.e. my Samsung ATIV NP 880Z5-X01AU laptop has a touch screen. Laptop's CPU and RAM is known.

[QUOTE="shawn30"][QUOTE="Sonysexual1"]

Considering that the ONE is having trouble playing linear games with bad graphics and no destrcutibility (Ryse), I'd say InFamous: SS is impossible on the ONE.

Sonysexual1

And? InFamous: SS is more technically advanced than all of them, including Forza 5.

[QUOTE="shawn30"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] Yep, it's the same reason why X360 multiplats were better the whole gen. Now since the PS4 and XBOX One are both easy to develop for, now the hardware will do the rest, PS4 is a lot stronger this time.faizan_faizan

We've known for months that the PS4 is a more powerful system, specs wise, than the Xbox One. It just hasn't shown itself in games yet and the devs who have spoken have stated they don't think there will be a great deal of difference between the games. Again, I can't play specs, I play games. Naughty Dog could make a great game on the Wii-U cause they are great devs, not cause of the systems specs. Biooware could rock the original Xbox and did. So while specs are cool to debate and fight over :) at the end of the day each companies games will look great. I'm buying Xbox One cause I don't think the difference is that big a deal and for the money I want a system that does more than just play games. That's not enough anymore for me. That's why in my head I call the PS4 the PSBore.

So continue on, lol. But remember, its always the games that matter most, not whats under the hood. When was the last time the system with the so called "best graphics" even won a gen? Food for thought.

shawn30

Both GPUs based of 7790, with the Xbox having lesser CU to accomodate the ESRAM

Scipio8

[QUOTE="shawn30"]

We've known for months that the PS4 is a more powerful system, specs wise, than the Xbox One. It just hasn't shown itself in games yet and the devs who have spoken have stated they don't think there will be a great deal of difference between the games. Again, I can't play specs, I play games. Naughty Dog could make a great game on the Wii-U cause they are great devs, not cause of the systems specs. Biooware could rock the original Xbox and did. So while specs are cool to debate and fight over :) at the end of the day each companies games will look great. I'm buying Xbox One cause I don't think the difference is that big a deal and for the money I want a system that does more than just play games. That's not enough anymore for me. That's why in my head I call the PS4 the PSBore.

So continue on, lol. But remember, its always the games that matter most, not whats under the hood. When was the last time the system with the so called "best graphics" even won a gen? Food for thought.

xboxiphoneps3

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

[QUOTE="shawn30"] But you still don't have any games that prove we're going to see a gigantic difference between the systems. That's the point. Specs are awesome and facts about the guts of the machine. But until the games are released its just figures on paper. And one thing we have seen in every gen is that every systems games start to look better as the years go buy and the devs figure out how to get the most out f them. I don't think you will; ever see a PS4 game and think to yourself it would be impossible to get that on the Xbox One unless its an exclusive Sony title.

shawn30

[QUOTE="btk2k2"]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8870M.86798.0.html is where I am assuming you got that 10% performance differential from. That is very flawed so I propose that we choose option 3, none of the above. Those website charts do not tell you the CPU or Memory used in the laptop and they do not tell you what spec of PC the 7770 was in. It also does not include the driver versions because in your BF3 example the High setting shows an increase of 26% but Ultra it is only 10%. Considering the advantages that the 7770 has it is possible that the Ultra test was done on an older set of drivers before the big performance improvement in the never settle drivers. How fuzzy in the details do you want to get? Now for some of your other points. 1) A GCN ROP module consists of 1 Colour ROP and 4 Z/stencil ROPs. That is a fact. If you know how many modules there are (16 in Xbox, 32 in PS4) then you know how many Z/Stencil ROPs there are. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance. 2) Nobody knows the requirements for the Xbox 1 or the PS4 OS at this stage. MS is provisioning 3GB of ram, 2 cores and 10% GPU but I bet that changes over time as they get a better idea of what the minimum actually is. We have no way of not being fuzzy here because not even MS and Sony know exactly what resources will be used which is why MS is over provisioning and will probably reduce this in the future to open up some more performance for games. 4) From what I have read nobody is equating the X1 GPU to the 7770 directly. They are just saying that it is in the performance ball park because the Shader, texture and ROP performance is similar. There are a few differences of course and the X1 GPU is probably slightly faster but we are not using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like' we are using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like RELATIVE to the PS4 (using the 7850 as a surrogate for the PS4 GPU which also has some differences to the PS4 and is infact slightly weaker so these comparisons show the X1 in a better light). 5) The firepro is a workstation class GPU running on a different driver base so it is not 100% comparable. There are some strange results with the W5000 where it out performed the 7850 in BF3 @ 2560x1440. This is obviously a driver bug in the 7850 driver base that is not present in the drivers for the W5000. This is being very fuzzy in the details because you are changing more than just the GPU. 6) It will help with the reduced bandwidth of the X1 but considering the X1 will have good enough bandwidth to feed the GPU having extra data does not really matter in the large scheme of things. Claiming that it will do more for performance than reduce the bandwidth deficit is wishful thinking. 7b) That is comparing different memory capacities at different speeds so I do not see the diminishing returns you are claiming. Bandwidth helps upto the point where the GPU is saturated then it down to the GPU. In both the X1 and the PS4 the bandwidth is sufficient for this to be the case in most scenarios so you do not have any sort of argument here. 8) You mean GDDR5 has higher latency than a L4 cache. Well no shit that a local cache can be accessed in fewer cycles than the GDDR5 meaning small read/writes are indeed improved between the GPU and the cache. Again this is just a bandwidth argument though and if there is enough, which there is, then it stops being a performance benefit. Sticking the memory system of the 7970 onto a 7770 will not greatly increase performance because the GPU does not have enough grunt to make use of the data. Now who is being fuzzy with the details?ronvalencia

1. http://techreport.com/review/22192/amd-radeon-hd-7970-graphics-processor/4

eight ROP partitions, each capable of outputting four colored pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels per clock

A "GCN ROP module" can output 4 color pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels.

A GCN ROP module with 1 color pixel + 4 Z/stencil pixels doesn't exist. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance.

If you want talk about "GCN ROP module", then you are wrong. Both 7970 and 7870 has 8 GCN ROP modules.

--------------------

2. Tormentos' OS statement was for CELL. Most of the CELL's power doesn't support supervisior modes. This is nothing to do with PS4.

4. Upscaling it to 18 CUs. I always used "7860" for PS4's GCN.

5. At that point in time, AMD drivers has known issues with BF3.

6. I never claimed it would exceed PS4. Don't put words into my month.

7. My point for http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#2 is, you don't get 1 to 1 performance increase with the memory bandwith increase.

8. X1 doesn't sport 7770 i.e. you do know "primitive per cycle" difference between 7770 vs X1 GPU.

Now who is being fuzzy with the details?

also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsNFJSupreme

[QUOTE="shawn30"]

We've known for months that the PS4 is a more powerful system, specs wise, than the Xbox One. It just hasn't shown itself in games yet and the devs who have spoken have stated they don't think there will be a great deal of difference between the games. Again, I can't play specs, I play games. Naughty Dog could make a great game on the Wii-U cause they are great devs, not cause of the systems specs. Biooware could rock the original Xbox and did. So while specs are cool to debate and fight over :) at the end of the day each companies games will look great. I'm buying Xbox One cause I don't think the difference is that big a deal and for the money I want a system that does more than just play games. That's not enough anymore for me. That's why in my head I call the PS4 the PSBore.

So continue on, lol. But remember, its always the games that matter most, not whats under the hood. When was the last time the system with the so called "best graphics" even won a gen? Food for thought.

xboxiphoneps3

If PS4 is stronger it would have been easy AND EXTREMELY important to proove this at E3. 

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsxboxiphoneps3

If PS4 is stronger it would have been easy AND EXTREMELY important to proove this at E3. 

sebbi11

The difference between both consoles will be seen later next gen. Also this E3 was about 'X1 and PS4 games' running on PCs and console prototypes. Nothing very conclusive.

I found the PS4 unimpressive.shawn30

Xbone is for the extreme casual, PS4 is for Gamers.FLegendOfZeldaU

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8870M.86798.0.html is where I am assuming you got that 10% performance differential from. That is very flawed so I propose that we choose option 3, none of the above. Those website charts do not tell you the CPU or Memory used in the laptop and they do not tell you what spec of PC the 7770 was in. It also does not include the driver versions because in your BF3 example the High setting shows an increase of 26% but Ultra it is only 10%. Considering the advantages that the 7770 has it is possible that the Ultra test was done on an older set of drivers before the big performance improvement in the never settle drivers. How fuzzy in the details do you want to get? Now for some of your other points. 1) A GCN ROP module consists of 1 Colour ROP and 4 Z/stencil ROPs. That is a fact. If you know how many modules there are (16 in Xbox, 32 in PS4) then you know how many Z/Stencil ROPs there are. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance. 2) Nobody knows the requirements for the Xbox 1 or the PS4 OS at this stage. MS is provisioning 3GB of ram, 2 cores and 10% GPU but I bet that changes over time as they get a better idea of what the minimum actually is. We have no way of not being fuzzy here because not even MS and Sony know exactly what resources will be used which is why MS is over provisioning and will probably reduce this in the future to open up some more performance for games. 4) From what I have read nobody is equating the X1 GPU to the 7770 directly. They are just saying that it is in the performance ball park because the Shader, texture and ROP performance is similar. There are a few differences of course and the X1 GPU is probably slightly faster but we are not using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like' we are using it to say 'this is what the X1 will perform like RELATIVE to the PS4 (using the 7850 as a surrogate for the PS4 GPU which also has some differences to the PS4 and is infact slightly weaker so these comparisons show the X1 in a better light). 5) The firepro is a workstation class GPU running on a different driver base so it is not 100% comparable. There are some strange results with the W5000 where it out performed the 7850 in BF3 @ 2560x1440. This is obviously a driver bug in the 7850 driver base that is not present in the drivers for the W5000. This is being very fuzzy in the details because you are changing more than just the GPU. 6) It will help with the reduced bandwidth of the X1 but considering the X1 will have good enough bandwidth to feed the GPU having extra data does not really matter in the large scheme of things. Claiming that it will do more for performance than reduce the bandwidth deficit is wishful thinking. 7b) That is comparing different memory capacities at different speeds so I do not see the diminishing returns you are claiming. Bandwidth helps upto the point where the GPU is saturated then it down to the GPU. In both the X1 and the PS4 the bandwidth is sufficient for this to be the case in most scenarios so you do not have any sort of argument here. 8) You mean GDDR5 has higher latency than a L4 cache. Well no shit that a local cache can be accessed in fewer cycles than the GDDR5 meaning small read/writes are indeed improved between the GPU and the cache. Again this is just a bandwidth argument though and if there is enough, which there is, then it stops being a performance benefit. Sticking the memory system of the 7970 onto a 7770 will not greatly increase performance because the GPU does not have enough grunt to make use of the data. Now who is being fuzzy with the details?btk2k2

1. http://techreport.com/review/22192/amd-radeon-hd-7970-graphics-processor/4

eight ROP partitions, each capable of outputting four colored pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels per clock

A "GCN ROP module" can output 4 color pixels or 16 Z/stencil pixels.

A GCN ROP module with 1 color pixel + 4 Z/stencil pixels doesn't exist. It is very simple and the fact you keep arguing on these points shows your ignorance.

If you want talk about "GCN ROP module", then you are wrong. Both 7970 and 7870 has 8 GCN ROP modules.

--------------------

2. Tormentos' OS statement was for CELL. Most of the CELL's power doesn't support supervisior modes. This is nothing to do with PS4.

4. Upscaling it to 18 CUs. I always used "7860" for PS4's GCN.

5. At that point in time, AMD drivers has known issues with BF3.

6. I never claimed it would exceed PS4. Don't put words into my month.

7. My point for http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#2 is, you don't get 1 to 1 performance increase with the memory bandwith increase.

8. X1 doesn't sport 7770 i.e. you do know "primitive per cycle" difference between 7770 vs X1 GPU.

Now who is being fuzzy with the details?

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsbtk2k2

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsxboxiphoneps3

PS4's compute is stronger, but weaker in tessellation**, color** and z ROPS**.

**Reference 7850 has 860Mhz clock speed.

PS; Some 7850 has 1Ghz clock speed (from ABI).

If the winner of this generation is decided by the specs, then I expect the PC to clean up this gen.Tadgerot

Specs dont decide the winner,  but they help.  Besides,  according to Steam hardware surveys the majority of hermits dont have a 1.8 Tflop or better GPU

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"]If the winner of this generation is decided by the specs, then I expect the PC to clean up this gen.DarthaPerkinjan

Specs dont decide the winner,  but they help.  Besides,  according to Steam hardware surveys the majority of hermits dont have a 1.8 Tflop or better GPU

Xbone is all about those teraFLOPS.campzor

Nah, Xbox One is all about those lems tearDROPS :P

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsxboxiphoneps3

lol.  No. There is no such thing as a 7860.  The chip in the PS4 is a custom chip.Its slightly stronger than a 7850 but based off the same chip in the 7850.  The 7850 is not an enthusiast chip.  All this is moot anyway because are  talking about consoles here not PCs.  Consoles get more done with less.  Just don't confuse optimization with more power.

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]also i wouldn't consider a 7850 an enthusiast card anymore. Both are using budget parts by PC standardsNFJSupreme

lol.  No. There is no such thing as a 7860.  The chip in the PS4 is a custom chip.Its slightly stronger than a 7850 but based off the same chip in the 7850.  The 7850 is not an enthusiast chip.  All this is moot anyway because are  talking about consoles here not PCs.  Consoles get more done with less.  Just don't confuse optimization with more power.

If the winner of this generation is decided by the specs, then I expect the PC to clean up this gen.Tadgerot

No one cares about PC. :lol: @ PC gaming. 

Who the f*ck is badboy?

Also, the difference between the retail versions of a 7790 and 7850 isn't that big. Of course that's with different clock speeds.

[QUOTE="PinkiePirate"][QUOTE="TorqueHappens08"] And have you SEEN titanfall. TorqueHappens08

That's something we already knew.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

ow snap in before xbots and their excuses

"but but teh cloud" :lol: apparently microsoft's money isn't enough to buy decent hardware

shadiezz2012

you shut your mouth

teh cloud will destroy your ps4 .......when it done loading:P

I wish i understood techonology more so i can laugh at the people pretending that they do :P

:lol: lems are paying $100 more for outdated underpowered shit hardware 

NathanDrakeSwag

True. But cows are paying $400 for outdated, underpowered shit hardware. Good for them, I guess...paying $100 less for shit hardware. Yay?

THis is old I think.

And to the people that keep saying "they need to prove it"...well go look at Second Son and read what DF said about.

[QUOTE="Evo_nine"]

[QUOTE="PinkiePirate"] And I have no argument against that. faizan_faizan

So in short, they both suck

If ps4 is the more powerful console it the best it can do is 30fps, we are all screwed. 

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

PS4 hardware is factually more powerful, now!

Heil68

and $100 more? Thank you kinect!blue_hazy_basic

Not too sure why cows are celebrating

both consoles look weak as 5hit 

its like bragging that your hyandai is faster than a civic 

 

Evo_nine

In this case, the PS4 is the genesis Rspec, Xbox one is the Civic SI, both are fast in theyre own way, but one has a V8 with RWD and over 430 real HP Real "specs". 

One needs custom modifications to get up to a faster pase, where as the other one is fast straight out of the factory

You can see where i'm going with this.

Obvious the Genesis (PS4) is the clear winner.

The PS4 GPU isn't strictly a 7870, it's more in between a 7850 and a 7870.

I think games will end up looking the same, just like last gen, maybe a slight edge with PS4 exclusives. Heil68

But HAVE YOU SEEN, Titanfall?

xbone

PS4

The PS4 GPU isn't strictly a 7870, it's more in between a 7850 and a 7870.

BigBoss154

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="PAL360"]

PS4 hardware is factually more powerful, now!

Douevenlift_bro

xbone

 

PS4

Krelian-co

That Lambo is sick!