Xbox One X's Project Cars 2 running 4K (update)

@asylumni said:

@ronvalencia said:

@asylumni said:

"We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless..." doesn't mean, mostly at 60 with a few drops. If it was, they wouldn't need to drop resolution, especially since they later say they're willing to drop a few frames to really push the system. "We'll" is a contraction of "we will". So, "We'll be 60 most of the time in normal racing" is a forward looking statement; it's their goal, not what's currently happening.

But yes, it does drop below 60 FPS in that video. Not long, but too long to be smoothed out with a locked frame-rate. There is, however, a notable improvement in frame rate with the "render frames ahead" set at 3 compared to at 4. Lowering this to 2 or 1 would probably be enough to keep the frame rate over 60 for the whole time. But there's also no mention of visual settings for the X1X, either.

Your Portuguese video has the following settings

1. Particle Level set to high.

2. Texture Resolution set to high

3. Blur set to off

4. SMAA set to off.

The above has SMAA enabled. Practically, max/ultra settings. AA is high.

Yup, this was a misquote. We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless we drop livetrack and a host of other things... We'll probably upscale from something very reasonable

To improve 60 fps, they may need to start to drop other things.

And that is how it ran at the launch of the GTX 1070, not now. Most of those settings would only increase GPU usage and the video I provided had a higher GPU usage than the one you got the screen shot from, hence something else must be in play - like a side effect of the "render frames ahead" option causing the GPU to stall while waiting on the screen refresh, or the like.

Project Cars was released on May 6, 2015.

GeForce GTX 1080 was released on May 27, 2016

GeForce GTX 1070 was released on June 10, 2016

So I was tinkering around with the resolution of 3840-2160 fps and I wanted to get a decent enough 60fps or as close as I possibly can, So I decide not to worry about the graphics settings side of things, instead try and get a solid 60fps. So in this video I turned the Anti aliasing off because in 4k you don't notice the bad edging unless you're up close and then you need a decent eye. So on the settings I put all my graphics settings to high and got around 45-50 upto 70fps so not bad with my I7 6700 non k version

Published on Sep 26, 2016

How long have you had your X1X?

Oh snap! You rekt him again!

Umm, you can clearly see that he has Anti-Aliasing set to high. It's also noteworthy that it's only the first, roughly, 23 seconds that the frame rate goes under 60 FPS, the rest of the race it spends most of the time in the high 60s and 70s, even going past 80 on occasion. If it was more than a single lap we could see if it was the area of the track that caused issues or loading. There's also no way to tell processor utilization or any other issues. Either way, this is more than "a decent enough 60FPS".

Indeed. And they still have nothing that touches GOW4, Forza or H5 :/

IMO

Odd. Over a year ago, Phil Spencer from Microsoft (head of the Xbox division) told the gaming community that developers will use the power of the Scorpio the way they want to.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1233979

Brad Shoemaker: "That was actually something that I was curious about that when you talk about 4K being the emphasis of that thing, will there be any mandate coming out of Microsoft toward developers saying like 'You should really focus on 4K here' or is it like carte blanche for them to pursue that extra power?"

Jeff Gerstmann: "If they just want to have a 1K (1080p) frame buffer, and then, you know, upres to 4K, to take advantage of and use that power in different ways..."

Phil Spencer: "Yeah, we will absolutely be open to that. I mean we're going to talk more specifics of Project Scorpio, so we'll get into more of the details, but I think creative freedom in how you want to use the power of the box is something that I always support. I mean, I came from first party as you know, so putting the right tools in the hands of the creators, the best creators, is our job as the platform. One thing though that we should make sure everyone understands, every game that comes out in the Xbox One family will run on the original Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Scorpio, so we had some questions if there are going to be Scorpio exclusive games. No, the line of games you get to play is the same, regardless of [one you own]."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCFig7lGyEs&feature=youtu.be&t=380

Developers can use Scorpio's 6 teraflops however they wish, says Spencer

Studios won't be forced to hit a native 4K resolution, Xbox chief suggests.

https://www.videogamer.com/news/developers-can-use-scorpios-6-teraflops-however-they-wish-says-spencer

Xbox leader Phil Spencer: 'Project Scorpio' won't force games to use 4K resolution

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-leader-phil-spencer-project-scorpio-wont-force-games-use-4k-resolution

Scorpio developers not forced to run at 4K, can use extra horsepower for higher quality assets at 1080p

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/scorpio-developers-not-forced-to-run-at-4k-can-use-33236488/

Looks like this very forum has known this all along.

@Jebus213 said:

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

You really should learn English with a capital E. I'm talking about performance results being close to 4K with frame rate and finding a PC GPU with similar results.

According to NVIDIA, GTX 1080 has 4k 60 fps for Project Cars 2.

According to Toms hardware one of the mos trusted sites for PC the 1070GTX runs on ultra 4k and doesn't drop from 60... The rest is damage control on your part you were proved wrong the XBO X version will be sub 4k and sub 60 so yeah not on part with the 1070gtx.

Yeah I'll take toms hardware over any of the crap rons been posting.

Glad to hear it. Figured I would post this here today while Tom's Hardware matters this week, I have some from Tom's Guide for next week.:

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/xbox-one-x-vs-ps4-pro,review-4436.html

@kvally: My shots aren't aimed at you. You were't one of the folks here expecting native 4K on XOX while bashing the Pros use of upscaling techniques.

This video totally destroy your argument.

1070GTX barely dropped below 60,most of the time is over 60FPS and even hit over 80FPS,on ULTRA the xbox one X can't even hit 60FPS is sub 60FPS and the developer it self claim it would upscale from lower resolution and still will be sub 60FPS and downgrade in some parts.

So to make this clear for yours sorry butthurt ass.

PC and a 1070GTX = True 4k.

Ultra.

60FPS or more on average.

XBO X= sub 4k

Sub 60 FPS

and probably downgrade quality wise to speed up frames.

This is a total blow and show the 1070 been superior in every aspect lemming.

I guess I have just been realistic. Tried and true PC gamers barely get to play games at native 4K, locked 60fps and ultra settings......who in their right mind would think a $500 game console could. It's just commonsense. Anyone who thought otherwise is just delusional and a plastic worshipping fanboy.

We should also consider the effect of recording. Just did a quick search shows an average of 10% loss of frame rate at 1080P with ShadowPlay.

And is that Picture in Picture? I bought project cars last night. 9 bucks on steam. I'm going to make some vids myself!

It's not the prettiest game, and the UI is a disaster. But the gameplay and the career/campaign and the simulation....awesome.

I played for a bit last night. I agree about the UI but the racing was decent. Can't wait to hook up my wheel.

@Zero_epyon: I was trying to say that the racing is awesome.

LOL, Your video's SMAA is disabled while my GTX 1070's results has SMAA enabled.

Try again.

@ronvalencia said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

Too bad for you, there are other youtube videos which shows GTX 1070 dipping below 60 fps at 4K.

Loading Video...

This video totally destroy your argument.

1070GTX barely dropped below 60,most of the time is over 60FPS and even hit over 80FPS,on ULTRA the xbox one X can't even hit 60FPS is sub 60FPS and the developer it self claim it would upscale from lower resolution and still will be sub 60FPS and downgrade in some parts.

So to make this clear for yours sorry butthurt ass.

PC and a 1070GTX = True 4k.

Ultra.

60FPS or more on average.

XBO X= sub 4k

Sub 60 FPS

and probably downgrade quality wise to speed up frames.

This is a total blow and show the 1070 been superior in every aspect lemming.

And is that Picture in Picture? I bought project cars last night. 9 bucks on steam. I'm going to make some vids myself!

LOL, Your video's SMAA is disabled while my GTX 1070's results has SMAA enabled.

Try again.

What settings does Xbox One X have?

Allot of stuff tuned down according to the own developer to reach 4k,which is why it will be sub 4k...hahahahaa

He doesn't address me any more,because he knows i owned his ass.

He has been wrong for years in almost everything he hypes about the xbox,and when it comes to scorpio he simply doesn't get 1 right,it has been wrong after wrong,now he believe the XBO X version will be a match for every setting in ultra lol.

On top of that, the benchmark has high AA AND Ultra SMAA enable at 4K. Why would you even need that at that resolution?

SMS needs to reduce X1X's graphics settings for better 60 fps, hence it implies near max details.

Digital Foundry's Project Cars review with GTX 1070 is no where near 60 fps i.e. it lands on 30 to 40 fps range.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review

Project Cars, Ultra, SMAA, 4K with GTX 1070 = 33 fps.

Try again.

As I stated before, GTX 1070 is a borderline 4K GPU..

No it doesn't. You're assuming max settings because of your wishful thinking. They're never going to attempt High AA + Ultra SMAA on a console at 4K. That doesn't make sense for that resolution. You're also assuming that they're hitting 4K at sub 60 under their worst conditions. It could be they're running poorly on a dry track with a single car on the road. I can tell you that my 1070 and 7700k easily holds 4K/60 Ultra with 2x msaa on a dry track.

The same stupid argument was made for 1080p and 2560x1600 years ago.

"Why do you need AA at such high resolution?" Everything still looks like a jagged mess to me. Even at 4k.

Once 4k becomes a standard on PC everyone is going to be pumping shit loads of AA into their games and downsampling. Then 8k is going to come around and people are going to be saying the same thing.

I never said you don't need AA at 4K. But High AA and Ultra SMAA don't do much at 4K and come at a huge performance hit. It's not worth it.

Again with the cherry picking. The DF numbers come from the extreme case of all cars on the track in the rain with all setting turned up while in a replay mode where all cars are on the screen at the same time. You're assuming that the devs are running the exact same benchmark. You don't know that.

You are cherry picking. My argument is GTX 1070's fps range from lowest to highest and you cherry picked near 60 fps.

Dude. I have the game and the card. I've even shared legit charts, but you've dismissed them and only go for the ones that show lower fps counts. And the ones you do post, the settings and pc specs are either missing or are cranked up to unrealistic levels. You think the Xbox One X is capable of doing high AA AND ultra SMAA?

People still said the same thing about 1080p. "You don't need that much AA at 1080p". Whenever I do upgrade to a 4k monitor I'm gonna laugh. Hell I might even keep these "You don't need or a lot of AA at 4k" threads bookmarked for the future.

Also some people still say the same thing about 1080p to this day. When I upgraded from 1440x900 to 1080p in 2010 I couldn't believe the amount of bs people led me to believe.

Tomshardware's chart doesn't complete the whole picture and it doesn't reflect the two other benchmark numbers. SMAA is just subpixel MLAA, http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/

Even without SMAA, wet track with heavy alpha effects lands GTX 1070 sub 60 and higher than 30 fps range.

At 4K, X1X is better than Fury X and R9-390X LOL.

@ronvalencia: I see, and in your chart it shows the gtx 1080 as having less than 60 fps. So this means that the Xbox one x is more powerful than the gtx 1080 right? A 9 tf card?

Do you see how retarded your arguments are man? You're obviously a very technically knowledgable person and yet you're blinded by your boner for an MS product. The Xbox one x will not deliver a 4k/60 experience for project cars at ultra settings with everything maxed out. It's not possible. Stop lying to yourself.

The same rules for memory bandwidth bounding TFLOPS applies.

This is why GTX 1080 Ti at 6.5 TFLOPS can still deliver Forza M6 wet track with solid 60 fps.

Don't quote 9 TFLOPS without memory bandwidth to back it.

Where is it said that PC2 4K sub 60 fps on X1X was because of wet track?

@pdogg93: "You're obviously a very technically knowledgable person and yet you're blinded by your boner for an MS product. "

I don't think he's so technically knowledgeable, if he were he would quickly realized how wrong he is. He is like an expert bot that regurgitates information over and over but without understanding the content. He's probably still in beta version.

@pdogg93: ? Telling him to stop lying to himself is futile. He's a completely delusional lem that also happens to be a bot that regurgitates useless information that he himself doesn't understand. He's completely hopeless,

Wet track is not a separate game from PC2.

GTX 1070 is less 4K capable than my GTX 1080 Ti. Stop kidding yourself with GTX 1070 being 4K GPU with a large compute power headroom.

GTX 980 Ti is similar to GTX 1070.

My MSI GTX 980 Ti (with 7.7 TF and 336 GB/s BW) can do 4K nearly 60 fps but it's doesn't have the headroom to handle more demanding 4k 60 fps workloads.

The key statement from SMS is "4K sub-60" instead of direct "4K 30".

@ronvalencia: so your answer to how is an x1x a gtx 1070 is because an x1x is a Gtx 1070.

Actually, the statement is,

"Yup, this was a misquote. We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless we drop livetrack and a host of other things... We'll probably upscale from something very reasonable"

Not, "we're getting dips below 60 FPS." Not, we're "we're dropping below 60 with weather." Running sub 60 FPS means that most times are below 60, not just the exceptions. Otherwise they wouldn't need to drop "a host of other things" or "upscale from something very reasonable." They could just drop a few things.

Additionally, there's no law that says he needs to be precise. 30 FPS IS sub 60 FPS. These are not mutually exclusive statements and there's no reason he must say 30 FPS (if it is) and not just that they are short of their goal of 60 FPS.

Exactly this. They can just lower some settings if it's just minor drops like the 1070 on a wet track. They said they'd have to drop a host of other things including livetrack, which sounds like a major feature.

Actually, it's a host of other things in addition to Live Track, not just including. Dropping Live Track would just be a start. From the official site.

• Livetrack 3.0 (dynamic racing track with grip & temperature changes, full rain simulation with puddling, water flow and track saturation, marbles & debris)

In other words, weather.

So the game really tanks hard on weather and doesn't even hit 60 normally. Project cars 1 drops on wet tracks on consoles now. So saying they'd have to drop it just to run at 4K speaks volumes. It even has trouble with dry tracks. 1070 does not,

Yeah because the 1070GTX has not improve performance wise with updates you blind chart troll.

1070GTX >>>>>>>>>> Scorpio.

1070GTX = True 4k 60FPS Ultra and up to 82FPS spikes.

Scorpio = fake 4k,who knows what settings and sub 60FPS.

There goes your argument...lol

According to Digital Foundry, Project Cars version 1's wet track hammers GTX 1070 into 33 fps range. Dropping Livetrack involves "dynamic racing track with grip & temperature changes, full rain simulation with puddling, water flow and track saturation, marbles & debris".

• Livetrack 3.0 (dynamic racing track with grip & temperature changes, full rain simulation with puddling, water flow and track saturation, marbles & debris)

In other words, weather.

The only blind troll is you.

Ugh. It was a replay of a 30+ car race on rain where camera angles showed every car and it's affects on the road. It was a deliberate stress test to see how hard the card would work. I'm going to put a video up soon of me playing this game.

Another youtube video showing GTX 1070 getting hammered on wet track. 1070 can handle a single car in the wet.

Published on Aug 10, 2016

@ronvalencia said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@ronvalencia said:

According to Digital Foundry, Project Cars version 1's wet track hammers GTX 1070 into 33 fps range. Dropping Livetrack involves "dynamic racing track with grip & temperature changes, full rain simulation with puddling, water flow and track saturation, marbles & debris".

Ugh. It was a replay of a 30+ car race on rain where camera angles showed every car and it's affects on the road. It was a deliberate stress test to see how hard the card would work. I'm going to put a video up soon of me playing this game.

Another youtube video showing GTX 1070 getting hammered on wet track. 1070 can handle a single car in the wet.

Published on Aug 10, 2016

Dude Project cars does not run like that. It's likely what the person is using to record. I use shadow play which takes only 2-3 frames. I used another screen capture software from MSI and it took me down by 15 frames.

And? Once again, the quote from the developer,

"We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless we drop livetrack and a host of other things.."

Notice the word "and"? That means that even dropping the weather wouldn't bring it up to 60 on the X1X; something the GTX 1070 can do.

Once again, the quote from the developer,

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread-coming-september-22nd-2017.342814/page-155#post-11859906

We don't like the term 'locked'. It would put us in first party territory where chest beating is more important than a great experience. We'll be 60 most of the time in normal racing and we'll push the consoles to and beyond their limits for more interesting racing. Even if that means dropping a few frames.