Zeno Clash gets 6.5 on GS.

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"] Again, I am not arguing in favor of the GS review itself or what other reviewers do/say. But saying it's ok for it to not have that much content, simplistic gameplay or ignore some other of it's flaws just because it's $20;just like you did right now, is pretty much the same as what you claim reviewers do when they ignore flaws in big mainstream games. naval

Specially since other $20 games and even free mods offer as much content as ZC or any other simplistic mainstream game.Dystopian-X

It's not so much just about the gameplay hours but the content itself the game provides and the simplistic kind of gameplay it had, what I am allowed to do and have in the game.

Part of the reason I scored Bioshock that high is because of all the stuff and different approaches the game allowed me to do/take looking past the straightforward main quest. Unlike ZC that kinda forced me to do something then right way throws me in the next scene without letting me check around for anything and even if I did there wouldn't be much to do other than pull some of the moves on enemies that don't even respawn unless it's part of the objective.

Of course its bloody ok. You can't hold Zeno Clash to the same standards as a game with millions of dollars in development expenditures and a publisher willing to plug the crap out of it. Zeno Clash, for an indie budget game, is amazingly well done. It should be rated based on what it is, not compare it to games like Half-Life 2. The game is wickedly unique, interesting story, great gameplay, and an overall unique experience.Vandalvideo

Also, I loved the style in ZC but I disagree with the great gameplay part and I won't ignore that just because of the style.

Also, I loved the style in ZC but I disagree with the great gameplay part and I won't ignore that just because of the style.Dystopian-X

Not even going to bother to read the review: the game deserves much more than 6.5.

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]Also, I loved the style in ZC but I disagree with the great gameplay part and I won't ignore that just because of the style.Vandalvideo

But it still falls short on providing a great experience for both gun and hand combat, simply blending those 2 well while they are somewhat clunky in this game isn't enough to make it great. Maybe if they try again they would get those right, but for now ZC is what it is.

But it still falls short on providing a great experience for both gun and hand combat, simply blending those 2 well while they are somewhat clunky in this game isn't enough to make it great. Maybe if they try again they would get those right, but for now ZC is what it is.Dystopian-X

[QUOTE="naval"]

Actually no, people are pointing out how the flaws are overly exxagerated because it is an indie game, rather than taking into account what it the game is for. it's a $20 game and if you start complaining that it doesn't have the complex combat of a beat um up like God Hand. Flaws like the simplistic comabt are generally ignored in other hyped games like Fallout 3. Same goes for the complain of lack of variety. The comaplain is bascially for a lack of standards, if a review ignores flaws for mainstream games and tried to judge on what they provide, it should be same for indie games. Or else reveiws should take into account flaws for all cases.

Dystopian-X

It's not so much just about the gameplay hours but the content itself the game provides and the simplistic kind of gameplay it had, what I am allowed to do and have in the game.Dystopian-X

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]But it still falls short on providing a great experience for both gun and hand combat, simply blending those 2 well while they are somewhat clunky in this game isn't enough to make it great. Maybe if they try again they would get those right, but for now ZC is what it is.Vandalvideo

I already agreed with this but many other good mainstream get underrated as well, this is not something new. As for ZC, I said it would be a 7.5 to me, if the game had scored this some ppl would still complain because they wanted to see the unique wacky styled indie game get an an 8 or more.Dystopian-X

Recycling - This game is short. You'll finish it in around 4-6 hours. Which would be OK if it were 4-6 hours of original content (it is $20, after all), but you end up fighting the same recycled characters over and over and over, which is both frustrating and a too-obvious attempt at padding the game out. I'd rather have played a shorter, less repetitive title than fight the same bad guy seven times.Kotaku

Recycling - This game is short. You'll finish it in around 4-6 hours. Which would be OK if it were 4-6 hours of original content (it is $20, after all), but you end up fighting the same recycled characters over and over and over, which is both frustrating and a too-obvious attempt at padding the game out. I'd rather have played a shorter, less repetitive title than fight the same bad guy seven times.Kotaku

@thegoldenpoo: Yes I played it and didn't see all this depth you speak of, the game's replayability relies on time trial, that's already saying a lot.

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]It's not so much just about the gameplay hours but the content itself the game provides and the simplistic kind of gameplay it had, what I am allowed to do and have in the game.naval

Part of the reason I scored Bioshock that high is because of all the stuff and different approaches the game allowed me to do/take looking past the straightforward main quest. Unlike ZC that kinda forced me to do something then right way throws me in the next scene without letting me check around for anything and even if I did there wouldn't be much to do other than pull some of the moves on enemies that don't even respawn unless it's part of the objective.Dystopian-X

I didn't completely ignore those, if I had, I'd have given the game a 9.5. I could give it a 8.5 as well ignoring my high preference for variety, that's why I wouldn't come and call the reviewer out if I saw Bioshock get a 8.0 or 8.5.

I didn't completely ignore those, if I had, I'd have given the game a 9.5. I could give it a 8.5 as well ignoring my high preference for variety, that's why I wouldn't come and call the reviewer out if I saw Bioshock get a 8.0 or 8.5.

Dystopian-X

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]I didn't completely ignore those, if I had, I'd have given the game a 9.5. I could give it a 8.5 as well ignoring my high preference for variety, that's why I wouldn't come and call the reviewer out if I saw Bioshock get a 8.0 or 8.5.

naval

The gameplay isn't all that repetitive, I felt like this too when I first played the game since I was put off by the gunplay but as you I progress you realize all the different combat you have: Hacking, using fire on oil trails, shocking the water etc etc...there are plenty of options in the game actually, editing the plasmids, searching for items, money, the diaries etc. Not like your average shooter. As for the minigame, are you talking about the pipe dream like game? Cus that wasn't mandatory and I found it fun.

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]I didn't completely ignore those, if I had, I'd have given the game a 9.5. I could give it a 8.5 as well ignoring my high preference for variety, that's why I wouldn't come and call the reviewer out if I saw Bioshock get a 8.0 or 8.5.

Dystopian-X

The gameplay isn't all that repetitive, I felt like this too when I first played the game since I was put off by the gunplay but as you I progress you realize all the different combat you have: Hacking, using fire on oil trails, shocking the water etc etc...there are plenty of options in the game actually, editing the plasmids, searching for items, money, the diaries etc. Not like your average shooter. As for the minigame, are you talking about the pipe dream like game? Cus that wasn't mandatory and I found it fun.

What are they smoking...? =___=SMR-Venom

P.S. Here comes the TOS lol.

well it does have a meta score of 82 that tells you somethingimprezawrx500

I'm not surprised by the poor reviews the game has been receiving. It may have been posted before, but I also wanted to put in my two cents on the Kotaku review. [quote="Kotaku"]Recycling - This game is short. You'll finish it in around 4-6 hours. Which would be OK if it were 4-6 hours of original content (it is $20, after all), but you end up fighting the same recycled characters over and over and over, which is both frustrating and a too-obvious attempt at padding the game out. I'd rather have played a shorter, less repetitive title than fight the same bad guy seven times.musicalmac

There are more than 20 characters you fight. I think three times was the maximum you got to fight them, and it was a few hours apart. There are three short levels that take place in the same forest, and two in the same city.

That review sucks. This is 4-6 hours of original content.

Guess hermits are going to keep talking about crysis for another couple of years..

Guess hermits are going to keep talking about crysis for another couple of years..

Wolfang07

Why blame Hermits? Most of the time Crysis get's brought up because consolites feel the need to compare everything to it.

Guess hermits are going to keep talking about crysis for another couple of years..

Wolfang07

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/zenoclash/review.html

Kinda surprise. I been hearing so many good things about this game.

Wanderer5

[QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/zenoclash/review.html

Kinda surprise. I been hearing so many good things about this game.

-snorlax-

Well gameplay was pretty repetitive fighting the same kind of enemy over and over gain, using the same few lame tricks over and over agian --- but I guess this game has flaws that should ignored just because it's "teh mainstream".naval

There were different kinds of splicers as far as I know and the game has plenty of variety, clearly more than this. But I did agree that some games get some of their flaws ignored, no point in going around this all over again. But like I sad, there's no excuse to overlook the ones in this games just because it's $20.

[QUOTE="-snorlax-"][QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/zenoclash/review.html

Kinda surprise. I been hearing so many good things about this game.

BoloTheGreat

And hermits wonder why people say PC gaming is dead.-snorlax-

And sheep wonder why they say Wii's quality is dead.

[QUOTE="naval"]Well gameplay was pretty repetitive fighting the same kind of enemy over and over gain, using the same few lame tricks over and over agian --- but I guess this game has flaws that should ignored just because it's "teh mainstream".Dystopian-X

There were different kinds of splicers as far as I know and the game has plenty of variety, clearly more than this. But I did agree that some games get some of their flaws ignored, no point in going around this all over again. But like I sad, there's no excuse to overlook the ones in this games just because it's $20.

What do you mean different kind of splicers ? behavior wise there were very few different splicers and total lack of variety --- less than ZC. But I guess we should not expect variety from a $60 game but we should expect amazing variety from $20 :roll:naval

And again you are assuming I'm saying Bioshock shouldn't be criticized, nop it definitely can and I'm ok with that.

[QUOTE="naval"]What do you mean different kind of splicers ? behavior wise there were very few different splicers and total lack of variety --- less than ZC. But I guess we should not expect variety from a $60 game but we should expect amazing variety from $20 :roll:Dystopian-X

And again you are assuming I'm saying Bioshock shouldn't be criticized, nop it definitely can and I'm ok with that.

[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"]

[QUOTE="-snorlax-"] And hermits wonder why people say PC gaming is dead.-snorlax-

Basing this off the score of an INDIE game?

Wow, not surprised.

We get a ton of good games.

Both from large and indie devs.

I would say roof walking , teleporting then normal ones (3), then guns - noraml or bombo damage ones and then Bid daddy , pertty poor variety. So, variety wise I would definitely say ZC was better, as it definitely felt less repetitive. When people say ZC cannot be compared to Bioshock, they mean in polish and production values and not really in other areas. I am not talking about should Bioshock be criticized or not, what I am saying (taking Bioshock as an example) is that people ignore flaws much more for mainstream/bug budget games higher than for indie games -- simply because big budget games even if the don't have any substance they do have lot of stylenaval

The same could be said about indie games, what ppl are mostly saying about ZC is: "Amazing style", "I love the wacky style, the reviewer is nuts for giving this game a low score" yet the gameplay is kinda shallow too.

GS as usual. Why do we care about their reviews over GRagain? Oh yeah, we don't.

[QUOTE="naval"] I would say roof walking , teleporting then normal ones (3), then guns - noraml or bombo damage ones and then Bid daddy , pertty poor variety. So, variety wise I would definitely say ZC was better, as it definitely felt less repetitive. When people say ZC cannot be compared to Bioshock, they mean in polish and production values and not really in other areas. I am not talking about should Bioshock be criticized or not, what I am saying (taking Bioshock as an example) is that people ignore flaws much more for mainstream/bug budget games higher than for indie games -- simply because big budget games even if the don't have any substance they do have lot of styleDystopian-X

The same could be said about indie games, what ppl are mostly saying about ZC is: "Amazing style", "I love the wacky style, the reviewer is nuts for giving this game a low score" yet the gameplay is kinda shallow too.

edit : btw do you now mean that for both indie games and mainstream games people over look the faults equally (since you just said 'same can be said..' and didn't provided any argument of how it could be more for indie games) ?

huh ... were did you got this idea ? people who are enjoying the ZC are enjoying teh gameplay as well. Also, int the the 'style' in the 'style over substance' statement I didn't meant art style but I meant stuff like 'cool water reflection' or 'cool ways to blow up stuff' etcnaval

[QUOTE="naval"] huh ... were did you got this idea ? people who are enjoying the ZC are enjoying teh gameplay as well. Also, int the the 'style' in the 'style over substance' statement I didn't meant art style but I meant stuff like 'cool water reflection' or 'cool ways to blow up stuff' etcDystopian-X

I am talkign about the fact you said the people like it because it's art style but find do not enjoy teh combat ? So I was asking were did you get the idea that people who liked the game, did not enjoy the combat so much. I enjoyed it, it was brutal and fun. naval

I said the style is what ppl hype the most about this game, just like when you claimed others hype what you called "a shallow mainstream game" based on the style. What makes you think ppl don't enjoy what it has to offer in terms of gameplay other than just hype the water effects and the explosions?

After reading the review I feel like I learned almost nothing about the game. I already bought it and things I noticed to be good or bad werent even mentioned. Calling the surreal nature of the games atmosphere and environment "gimmicky" is just wrong. Its odd that he has issues with repetivness in a cheap, indie game while so many full fledged mainstream games are way worse. I love the fact that the length of the game is even mentioned. Take a game these days and you can be sure as hell that it will be around 5h long. Mirrors Edge? 5h. FEAR 2? 5h. CoD WaW? 5h. Also cant not notice people still say that PC gaming is dying. I will try to find a link to numbers of games sold that are not confined to North America like the NPD shows. The site not only includes numbers for NA but also Europe and Asian territories and guess who comes out on top? It sure aint the consoles. I hope I find it today, if not ill make a topic tomorrow.

[QUOTE="naval"] I am talkign about the fact you said the people like it because it's art style but find do not enjoy teh combat ? So I was asking were did you get the idea that people who liked the game, did not enjoy the combat so much. I enjoyed it, it was brutal and fun. Dystopian-X

I said the style is what ppl hype the most about this game, just like when you claimed others hype what you called "a shallow mainstream game" based on the style. What makes you think ppl don't enjoy what it has to offer in terms of gameplay other than just hype the water effects and the explosions?

also, I didn't said people don't enjoy it, I said people it's more easy to ignore the faults of these things.

There is another factor in here, the game looks absolutely fantastic. It's gorgeous, my dad even commented on how good it looked when he came in the room. It's not a "Gimmick" it's called surrealism, look it up. That just about sums the game up, its surreal and gets into your subconscious, the combat is brutal and actually gets you riled up. You almost feel it the game is so kinetic and sometimes desperate. How they cannot mention this when EVERY OTHER REVIEW DID!! is beyond me. Just look at Metacritic and click on every other page, Giant bomb "A first person fighter with DEEP COMBAT". GS calls the game "Shallow", i tell you what is shallow, just mindlessly shooting someone all the time like you do in the majority of AAA FPS games. This is the most inaccurate review out there (just have a look! it mention hardly anything about the game!), GS should be ashamed, it seems they didn't even bother to play it all the way through. BoloTheGreat

[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"]There is another factor in here, the game looks absolutely fantastic. It's gorgeous, my dad even commented on how good it looked when he came in the room. It's not a "Gimmick" it's called surrealism, look it up. That just about sums the game up, its surreal and gets into your subconscious, the combat is brutal and actually gets you riled up. You almost feel it the game is so kinetic and sometimes desperate. How they cannot mention this when EVERY OTHER REVIEW DID!! is beyond me. Just look at Metacritic and click on every other page, Giant bomb "A first person fighter with DEEP COMBAT". GS calls the game "Shallow", i tell you what is shallow, just mindlessly shooting someone all the time like you do in the majority of AAA FPS games. This is the most inaccurate review out there (just have a look! it mention hardly anything about the game!), GS should be ashamed, it seems they didn't even bother to play it all the way through. Salt_The_Fries

I don't understand how a review can be disregarded on the basis that it's not close to a metacritic average :?

Word to the wise, don't look at GS for PC reviews. Go to either IGN or PC gamer.

Zeno Clash is a great game. I own it. Frankly I don't even know if i am playing through the same game as the reviewer. As with their Demigod review, they fail. Demigod was completely fixed and patched a week and a half after release so, technically speaking, that already makes their review completely useless regarding the game.

GS PC section = Fail. Look at IGN or PC gamer.

I don't understand how a review can be disregarded on the basis that it's not close to a metacritic average :?

rpg9000owner

Put it this way. Veryfew people come to GS for PC reviews, news or previews.