@tronrad9000: Your "concern" about the time I spend on gaming websites is noted "bruh".

Though the funny thing is that I spend less than an hour a week typically on any gaming websites, so I think you might be projecting a bit there bucko.

@tronrad9000: You just demonstrated the absolute uselessness of the "adventure game" genre. When a genre can be used to describe Legend of Zelda, Tomb Raider, point and click games, and text games...it basically has no meaning.

@tronrad9000: Did you not understand my point in recognizing the pattern over presenting "singular examples", aka anecdotes?

We have TONS of examples of devs blaming the audience for the failure of their games and while this one seems to be holding ok on steam as far as ratings go, well the sales stats and simultaneous player counts are quite low.

Deck 9 has nothing to do with Dontnod, that's why they just handed over their precious IP to them...that's all. Gimme a break.

Who exactly is "shouting into the void"? I think you're projecting a bit much there my friend. I came into this discussion countering bad arguments. That's not "shouting into the void" over hypotheticals, it's having a discussion about demonstrables...

@joecollin: Well but that's kind of the point. A 10/10 should not come down to "a matter of taste".

They are supposed to be genre defining games that even people who don't normally like playing that kind of game will nonetheless be blown away by it.

All of that is totally irrelevant and a straw man argument. Plenty of games with female leads do AMAZINGLY well and not because they look like Stellar Blade. Same for non-white or LGBTQ+ characters and so on. What matters is how those things are used in the medium that determine if people like the game and whether or not they consider it to be "woke".

You simply want there to be no nuance to the discussion so you can continue punching your straw man of the anti-woke consumer, but that is not the reality of the situation.

First off, you left off a very important part of that sentence to make your point.

"they always love to make excuses when games like this inevitably flop..."

This is important because if you're making a Passion Project game and are completely unconcerned about pleasing the gamers and turning a profit is a secondary concern, then why would they care if it is a flop?

You can't have it both ways.

Also I would note that nowhere in there is a PRESCRIPTION for what gamers want. The point is that the developer is out of touch with the audience and that is a problem. Plenty of experimental passion games end up going absolutely bonkers in sales, like Undertale or Balatro BECAUSE they ended up tapping in to what gamers actually want, even if they didn't know they wanted it beforehand.

@mogan: For this game? Not yet that I am aware of, but they are also in the middle of layoffs and a strike, so they're probably a bit preoccupied at the moment considering it launched barely a week ago. Considering that if this game flops, which it doesn't appear to be doing great as of now, then the company is speculated to fold.

That said, both Don't Nod and the people who took over LiS from them (Deck 9) have had controversies with some of their past games.

Again it's about noticing a pattern of game development problems and the resultant fallout that is more the focus of the discussion than any particular singular example.

@doyoyo: You mean your strawman of his argument would. The argument is not to tell developers to NOT make indie arthouse style games that play with the very concepts of what it means to be a game, but rather to not COMPLAIN about your experimental game flopping by blaming the audience.

THAT is what has killed many former titans of the gaming industry. There's a pattern and he's just recognizing it. From what I've read, the company is already in dire straits and this game underperforming is likely going to end them.

@ltkcentaur: Umm no? That's not what Ichirei is saying at all. Make your passion project if you want, but don't complain if most gamers don't pick up on your unique vibe.

For the past several years the people who make these kinds of games that end up flopping turn around and BLAME the gamers for not buying their game and call them all kinds of -ist and -phobe names for not liking their game.

It's literally the opposite of what you're asserting.

What a ridiculous price for a sword made of the same plastic as Legos! I remember buying full metal replicas of the LotR swords for the same price. What a joke.