[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Ultima_5"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]It shouldn't be a religious value to uphold the right to life, but if it is, then by all means make America a damn theocracy.eggdog1234

thats part of the problem. their is no definition of life, what i think about when life starts is completely different than the next person.

and if american would become a theocracy, wouldnt that be going against what our country stands for?

There are seven criteria an organism has to meet to be considered alive. All cells, plants, microbes, animals, and fetuses meet them.

If our country stands for infanticide, it's time to change what our country stands for. If Separation of Church and State leads to the complete violation of basic human rights (such as living), then Separation of Church and State needs to go as soon as humanly possible, as it is among the worst political philosophies ever created.

If valuing the life of a fetus when you consider that fetus a human is a religious stance, then the government (and society as a whole) is better off religious.

I'm not actually arguing to make America a theocracy, but if being for the right to life is a religious stance that shouldn't be a part of secular government, then I think it's about time secular government went the way of Nazi Germany.

Separation of church and state is the point of this country.

Why are we talking about what Obama where's on his feet?

Okay here is an article. Actually it makes some sense when you think about it. An article in L'Osservatore Romano (The Vatican's official newspaper). Basically the article by an Italian Economist argues that the U.S.' economic troubles reflect an inherent weakness in the way our economy is structured. For example one problem is the idea of "jobless growth"- which means economic growth without any job growth. Also it says the economy is weak because it is based primarily on the financial sector and not on manufacturing, service and industrial sectors. Basically the result is that the money on wall street does not trickle down to the majority of American's thereby creating wealthy banks but leaver the consumer without purchasing power.

It's interesting, anyone want to tell me what they think? Is Consumerism a bad basis for an economy?

I would think anyone who feels strongly against abortion wouldn't be voting for Obama, whether or not some whacko tries to equate abortion with racial cleansing.Oleg_Huzwog

Read all about it. Scientist have discovered a safer way to make iPS cells, which are seen as an ethical alternative to embryonic stem cells that can be just as effective or maybe even more effective.

This is great news.

Mexican actor Eduardo Verastegui has made a video criticizing Obama's support for abortion, which he says is used by racists to wipe out Hispanic people. He also criticisises Obama's support for Partial-birth Abortion, his opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act and accuses Obama of supporting taxpayer funded abortion (I said accuses because I'm not sure if Obama really does, so I won't blame him if I have no proof).

if this turns the Latino vote against Obama, it could very well lead to his defeat.

Here I thought this would be appropriate since 9/11 is today. For anyone interested. Please let's not make this topic turn into an argument, let's be respectful. It's the least we could do.

APOSTOLIC JOURNEY
TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
AND VISIT TO THE UNITED NATIONS
ORGANIZATION HEADQUARTERS

VISIT TO GROUND ZERO

PRAYER OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI

Ground Zero, New York
Sunday, 20 April 2008

O God of love, compassion, and healing,
look on us, people of many different faiths and traditions,
who gather today at this site,
the scene of incredible violence and pain.

We ask you in your goodness
to give eternal light and peace
to all who died here-
the heroic first-responders:
our fire fighters, police officers,
emergency service workers, and Port Authority personnel,
along with all the innocent men and women
who were victims of this tragedy
simply because their work or service
brought them here on September 11, 2001.

We ask you, in your compassion
to bring healing to those
who, because of their presence here that day,
suffer from injuries and illness.
Heal, too, the pain of still-grieving families
and all who lost loved ones in this tragedy.
Give them strength to continue their lives with courage and hope.

We are mindful as well
of those who suffered death, injury, and loss
on the same day at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
Our hearts are one with theirs
as our prayer embraces their pain and suffering.

God of peace, bring your peace to our violent world:
peace in the hearts of all men and women
and peace among the nations of the earth.
Turn to your way of love
those whose hearts and minds
are consumed with hatred.

God of understanding,
overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy,
we seek your light and guidance
as we confront such terrible events.
Grant that those whose lives were spared
may live so that the lives lost here
may not have been lost in vain.
Comfort and console us,
strengthen us in hope,
and give us the wisdom and courage
to work tirelessly for a world
where true peace and love reign
among nations and in the hearts of all

I was reading a wikipedia article about WWI and Pope Benedict XV. And it mentioned how numerous times the Pope would appeal for an end to the war, but neither side would listen. Indeed, many people didn't like him because they always thought he was on the opposite side of the war- in reality, all he wanted was an end to that "yseless massacre". In 1917 he issued a seven point peace proposal- everyone except president Woodrow Wilson ignored it- and Wilson said it was too early from peace. The Vatican was also excluded from the peace talks at the treaty of Paris- Benedict actually criticised the harsh terms against Germany saying they would lead to resentment and could provoke another war. Being Unable to stop the war or establish a just peace, Benedict devoted himself to using his personal and Vatican treasury monies to alleviating the suffering of the victims of the war- upon his death the Vatican treasury only held about $19,000. Marvelous man, how could those other world leaders be so callous and so against peace?

Your thoughts? Is this attitude of many world leaders still a problem today?

I am talking about Catholic Social Doctrine,. It's rather remarkable in that it can't be really considered liberal (left) or conservative (right)- in fact it criticises both. For instance it criticises both socialism and "free market" capitalism. Basically It has seven key themes.

1. Sanctity of human life and dignity of the person

2. Call to family, community, and participation

3. Rights and responsibilities

4. Preferential Option for the poor and vulnerable

5. Dignity of work and the rights of workers

6. Solidarity

7. Care for God's Creation (basically the Catholic Church's term for Environmentalism).

your thoughts? Any sociologists here?