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R-A-W-R

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#1 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts
I myself am a socially conservative Christian that finds many things conservative Christians do to be idiotic. While I myself am typically conservative politically, hyper-conservatives scare me in more ways than one. Also, I myself am a conservative evangelical Christian... but fundamentals also freak me out. They typically do not like me all that much either. :P
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#2 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

[QUOTE="R-A-W-R"]Ah okay. Nope, I just exaggerate the beliefs I actually hold is all. :Psmc91352
but you see: I wouldn't know if you mean that 'cause fakeboys would say that too... now I'm gonna be suspicious all my life :o

In the power of Jesus, I remove your suspicion!

...I suppose that didn't help any.

hmm... My statement just reminded me of this video.

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#3 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts
[QUOTE="R-A-W-R"]Faking being a Christian? I'm not sure if I've been accused of that before. Progressive, maybe. Eccentric, maybe. Obsessed too. Fake, nope. Nothing but a regenerated believer in Christ here. :Psmc91352
do you know what a fakeboy is? Basically a fanboy is someone that makes exagerations to show that something is a certain way. A fakeboy is someone that uses the guise of a fanboy to make absurd statements. I was saying that your point was unbelievable and I suspect you're a fakeboy.

Ah okay. Nope, I just exaggerate the beliefs I actually hold is all. :P
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#4 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

This is completely off topic and random but your a good artist as well...:P

Xx_Hopeless_xX

lol, thanks. :P

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#5 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts
[QUOTE="smc91352"][QUOTE="R-A-W-R"]I'd actually be quite proud that my son would draw something like that. :oops: Instead of thinking of himself in wanting presents, he drew what matters more than anything. Not presents. Not Santa Claus. Not even a "cute scene" of a baby in a manger. He thought of Christ crucified, the very purpose for which Jesus descended from the heavens!

:| Happy? you're not a Christian-fakeboy are you?

Faking being a Christian? I'm not sure if I've been accused of that before. Progressive, maybe. Eccentric, maybe. Obsessed too. Fake, nope. Nothing but a regenerated believer in Christ here. :P
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#6 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

[QUOTE="R-A-W-R"] Actually, it ends with an epic battle. Ever here of the Battle of Armageddon? Jesus and the angels descend from heaven and go into battle on earth in the land of Megiddo (where the word Armageddon comes from). Satan is also vanquished by throwing him and his followers into the lake of fire. This battle will put the LOTRs battle in Return of the King to shame. Just say'n.lordreaven

You do know that was added into the new testemant. The old one never had that at all..........................old guys with pens win again.

Give me some type of historical or biblical argument and I'll actually believe you are not making up stuff. I've studied Scripture and things related to Scripture for years and I have no idea what you are talking about. Though, Revelation is not my forte unlike Romans or the Gospels.
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#7 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts
I'd actually be quite proud that my son would draw something like that. :oops: Instead of thinking of himself in wanting presents, he drew what matters more than anything. Not presents. Not Santa Claus. Not even a "cute scene" of a baby in a manger. He thought of Christ crucified, the very purpose for which Jesus descended from the heavens!
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#8 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

I'm more specifically interested in the context of the original languages than I am of proving any point. The only way you can get an eternal hell from those passages is if you ignore everything else about eternal life that is discussed in the Bible.

Also, keep in mind that Sheol and Gehenna, both translated as "Hell' in KJV, are NOT the same thing. We ALL go to Sheol upon death to await ressurrection. By your interpretation, we'll be in Sheol forever (Aionos).

br0kenrabbit

Not remotely. I'm well aware of the differences (or rather, the similarities) between Sheol and the New Testament understanding of the afterlife. From what I see you are accusing me of, you too do not understand orthodoxy Christian theology. You too are trying to merge Christian Gnostic teachings with Christianity. I'd give you a long explanation of what Scripture teaches from a generalized perspective if I had the time but alas, that is not the case since I'm in the middle of final exams. Maybe I'll continue the conversation another time.

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#9 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

I was going to type it all up for you, but instead I'm just going to give you some links and save some time.

Long but thorough study.

Something more modern and concise.

Specifically addressing Mathew 25:46.

Please read at least one of those throughouly if you want to comment further, because I'm not going to waste time by going over something that was covered in the articles.

br0kenrabbit

Well, the first is published by the Northwestern Universalist Publishing House which makes it loose absolutely all credibility with orthodox Christianity. Christianity is not a universalist religion but is an exclusivist religion. Any attempt to create it as anything else is heresy. The intention of this type of Christianity is to prove liberal and non-orthodox ideas, something that has been considered heresy for two thousand years.

As for the second link, it attempts to explain orthodox Christianity but fails. It uses Bible passages out of context and doesn't define terms as defined by Scripture (even simple definitions like death [true death ultimately being seperated from the Father, true life ulimately being with the Father]). Also, many of its arguments about certain texts are arguments from silence. Just because a certain passage does not specifically say that hell is eternal in now way means it is not. I obviously did not read all of it but each of the arguments I read had simple answers and have very little historical and literary backing. At one point the author says something along the lines of "But that is unfair, you say. It is not what the Bible means. You are twisting it to make it fit your own premise." Is that not what he is doing?

And the third link is by Ken Eckerty, also a universalist which makes him loose all credibility with me. If I look past his wrong and heretical motivations, his arguments still fail. Many times he accuses the Church of wrong beliefs which the church does not even hold. For example, at one time he even states, "The ancient Egyptian and Greek teaching that says that man has an immortal soul (now embraced by the Church) is not scriptural. The only reason man has any life at all is because God (who is life) chooses to impart it to His creatures." This is not true, the church does not hold to this position. He's arguing against Christian gnosticism, not orthodox theology which clearly says that our resurrection bodies, not spiritual bodies, will become imperishable (1. Cor. 15). He doesn't even know what he's arguing against.

Now, I'm fully aware I did not give a detailed analysis against these links but it would require a book's worth of writing for me to argue against these groups. Hopefully what arguments I did give shall suffice.

One can make the Bible say whatever they wish it to say. Heck, I can make a biblical argument that fat people can't go to heaven since "narrow is the way that leads to righteousness", the Bible promotes anarexia (fasting), etc. Just because you can "proof text" an argument from Scripture in no way makes you correct. We gain our knowledge from a reading of Scripture that is from a simple reading but understood in the historical and literary context, that has been excepted by catholic doctrine (that is, the core doctrine of the universal church, not necessarily the Catholic church) across the centuries, etc. Personally, if I had a belief about scripture that was unique from the typical reading, then I'd highly question my understanding. We are in no way supposed to go to Scripture, disagree with a text and thus change its meaning, and then say your way is the "biblical" way while all others are wrong.

But do not take me the wrong way, Scripture is our highest authority as Christians and can be understood properly. However, it easily can be taken wrongly. In this case, universalism is heresy. If you wanted to argue that there was a hell but was not eternal, sure we can debate but I in no way believe that was a belief held by the apostles nor is it standard orthodox teaching.

Also, why is there even a need to discuss this? Either follow Christ or completely reject him. Do not claim that he is God in the flesh and not take hell seriously even if it "might" be temporary.

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#10 R-A-W-R
Member since 2009 • 86 Posts

I'm not wrong. Christians evolved away from the Wrathful image of god to a forgiving image of god.. It's the Jewish religion that deals with the wrathful image. Not to mention hell is never described directly in the bible.

EMOEVOLUTION

Not true. Both testaments deal with the wrath of God. Revelation 19:13-16 states of Jesus, "He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. " And in case you didn't realize Revelation is in the New Testament. :wink:

And Zephaniah 3:17 states of those who follow him, "The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." And in case you didn't realize, Zephaniah is in the Old Testament. Deuteronomy 7 also says, "Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands." Deut. 10 also has some great stuff. :wink:

What you have to realize is that this is one book with a single plot-line. The Old Testament, or rather, the Old Covenant texts deal with the wrath of God to show us that we are in need of a savior which is also promise in the Old Testament. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and thus shows us that we find our savior in Jesus Christ. Both preach the same message, the message of reconciliation.