To Shensolidus

I never made the mistake of comparing Insomniac to Nintendo as a whole, specifically for the reason you outlined. I compared them to a studio owned by Nintendo, another studio owned by Sony, and a studio owned by Microsoft.

And i respectfully disagree about it taking another developer to be able to see the best of the group.

In a medium like games, i think it merely takes a look at the most fondly remembered games to see which developers get it. Sometimes a game like GTA is mentioned, or another time a game like Okami, or Windwaker is revered.

You ask people what it is that made these games so special, and they'll say something like a magic touch that saturates it.

Top 5? As a developing envoirment, surely.

But the games themselves is what matters at the end of the day.

What are your favorite games from last gen?

I'll list mine in no particular order.

Metroid Prime 2

Metroid Prime

Shadow of the Colossus

Killer Seven

Wind Waker

Smash Melee

F-zero GX

Radiata Stories

FF12

Ico

Twilight Princess

Viewtiful Joe

Resi Remake

Resi 4

Okami

DMC 3

MGS 3 Snake Eater

VP Silmeria

Fire Emblem POR

Paper Mario:TTYD

Top 5 developers

Team Ueda

PolyDIgital

EAD Tokyo

Clover/Platinum Games

Valve

Blizzard

Bioware

BlackIsles Studios

Square

TriAce

Enix

Intelligent Systems

Insomniac doesn't even scratch the top ten, why?

Cuz their games are good, enjoyable but not the experiences of a generation.

So it's pretty much agreed that Insomniac has been somewhat overrated these past few months?

Competent but not masterful?

From the current first party studios in the industry.

Must be first party, or so closely related to a console that they might as well be first party.

For Sony this would be Insomniac, Nintendo would be Hal Laboratory, Microsoft would be ??

Limit is only 6 studios are allowed, and you must outline the release schedule for at least 5 years, since that's the normal generation cycle.

I'll begin..

I'll take Nintendo EAD, which gives me Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Starfox and i believe F-zero.

Then, i'll take Team Ueda/Ico, which gives me the Bleaksis games.

Then i'll take Insomniac studios, which gives me Ratchet, and Resistance.

Then i'll take Rare, which gives me nothing yet.

Then i'll take Retro, which gives me nothing yet.

Then i'll take Intel Systems, which gives me Fire Emblem and Paper Mario.

Console launches in December of 2011.

First order of business is to set Insomniac to create a new platformer series, which doesn't feature talking animals or robots. A city based platformer of the quasi superhero variety. Takes its cues from Hulk Ultimate Destruction, but allows for the moving of the city itself, ie skyscrapers, buildings whatever.

This is our big launch game, alongside a Paper Zelda game from Intel Syst..

A couple months later, I'd drop a F-zero game on the masses, while building hype for a new Rare ip for the summer.

Between march and may, i'd let the third parties fill the gaps, either with shovelware or something, only to drop in the first week of June a Rare ip of the likes you've never seen, which opens up the summer season with a bang.

August, i'd drop a team Ueda Bleaksis game, only to carry the momentum into a November Zelda game which features a steampunk setting, and a retro knockback to the original Zelda playstyle.

After this successful first year, i'd have a Ratchet game drop in January, a Starfox in early march, and let third parties carry me until June, when i'd hype up the new Retro ip slated to drop in October.

Meanwhile, i'd have Insomniac pad the release lists with fare like Banjo Baseball, Ratchet Hockey and a Resistance for July.

Third parties either carry me to September, or there's a drought......oh well.

Then Retro's new ip is released, to critical acclaim and decent commercial success.

Which then leads into December, for a new true blue Mario game.

As of now, my install base is in the mid 20 million range, and third parties should be cloying for the chance to develop.

I let them, while brainstorming new ips, and continuing to distance myself from the competition.

Then, i drop the new ip, named Sustain.

The world goes mad, ala Pokemon in the 90's, GTA in the early 2000s, or WiiSports in 2006.

The war is over.

[QUOTE="Seraphimon"]

Knew this was gonna be taken the wrong way.

For the people saying Insomniac is one of the better developers out there, would you like to elaborate on the developers they stack up with?

Would you have traded the games Ico and SOTC for 4 more Ratchets last gen? How about Okami for 3 more Spyros?

How about GT5 for another Crash Bandicoot? Metal Gear 2 or 3 for 5 more console Castlevanias?

Most people i know would say hell no.

The games above are considered to be the gems of the ps2 library.

Insomniac games are fun stopgaps that pad out a release list.

Nice, but i could do without them, if it means i get the Ico's, and Okamis of the industry.

They're not a Valve, a Bioware, Blizzard or a Bungie.

Truth be told, i'd wager Sony would cut Insomniac lose(end dealings with them completely) if it meant they could get another team of Ueda's quality in their place.

They know their role, and play it well.

They're just not one of the greats, imo.

Tiefster

I never said they weren't a good developer. Or that their games aren't good, enjoyable titles. First post acknowledged this.

What i said, is that as a developer, Insomniac makes good to great titles, but they don't make the gems of a library. That's why i equated them to a Mario baseball type of developer.

The gameplay is solid, undeniably fun, but it's not a crown on a library.

My entire point of this thread, was to call out the people who make them out to be bigger movers and shakers than they actually are in the industry, mainly because it's not fair to the games they make, and it's not fair to the developers themselves.

I don't buy Mario sluggers expecting it to replace an EA produced game as the Baseball king game.

So why should people look at Ratchet as the Mariokiller, or Resistance as the Halo/Gears killer?

Knew this was gonna be taken the wrong way.

For the people saying Insomniac is one of the better developers out there, would you like to elaborate on the developers they stack up with?

Would you have traded the games Ico and SOTC for 4 more Ratchets last gen? How about Okami for 3 more Spyros?

How about GT5 for another Crash Bandicoot? Metal Gear 2 or 3 for 5 more console Castlevanias?

Most people i know would say hell no.

The games above are considered to be the gems of the ps2 library.

Insomniac games are fun stopgaps that pad out a release list.

Nice, but i could do without them, if it means i get the Ico's, and Okamis of the industry.

They're not a Valve, a Bioware, Blizzard or a Bungie.

Truth be told, i'd wager Sony would cut Insomniac lose(end dealings with them completely) if it meant they could get another team of Ueda's quality in their place.

They know their role, and play it well.

They're just not one of the greats, imo.

Insomniac is one of the better devs out there.

Spyro was great. (Well the first one mostly)

Ratchet and Clank is a bit over done. The first two or so where good and I'm enjoying Tools of Destruction. The later PS2 games werent needed IMO.

Dont have an opinion on Resistance.

hiho24

Better devs?

In relation to who?

Which one of their games is considered a crowning achievement, pretty much universally?

Intel Systems has Super Metroid.

Team Ico has SOTC.

Bungie has Halo.

Retro has Metroid Prime.

Santa Monica has God of War.

Insomniac has Spyro? Ratchet? Resistance?

No, good but merely good.

[QUOTE="Seraphimon"]

the ratchet and clank and spyro games were for the most part all AAA platformers. I didnt like Resistance 1 tho, who cares though,, PS3 owners get a lot of options holiday season while for 360 owners it really all rides on Gears of War2.

signore

Lol.

Ratchet and Spyro both were basically the equivalent of a saturday morning cartoon.

Decent stuff, but nothing really groundbreaking or exceptional, just welldone games that people enjoy, and that enjoyed the userbase of the platforms they were on.

AAA? Not by a longshot.

Jersey Devil was a better platformer than Spyro imo, and Jak and Dexter crapped all over the Ratchet games in platforming.

Mario 64 was AAA.

Mario Galaxy is AAA.

Ratchet is definition of by the books.

Insomniac = Level 5 = < Rare

Insomniac is a good, stopgap developer.

Sony pads out the year with Insomniac titles, while saving the big hype for a title like Killzone 2 or LBP. They fill out a library, and give the consumer something to play in the meantime.

I equate a Ratchet title to a Mario Baseball for Nintendo, or a generic shooter from Microsoft.

Only difference is, Nintendo pays Namco or Hudson to make the stopgap, Microsoft lets a third party sell, whereas Sony fans hype it up as a first party megahit.

Nintendo fans/fanboys know that Mario golf/baseball/basketball/soccer etc are just padding for the release lists, a practice from n64 days when there'd be months without notable releases.

They might say they plan on getting the games, but they don't hype them up as the second coming.

I never smh more than last fall, when people were placing hopes on Ratchet to make a difference. Ratchet?!

The character practically lifted from the sega genesis days of the many mascots who were marketed as hip, cool and happening?

Ratchet was just a successful holdover from the Blinx, Tak, Kangaroo that nobody wants to remember from era of early 2001-02.

You aren't gonna see a new Ratchet title on the cover of a big magazine like Egm, nor will you see a Mario Baseball or a Rainbow Six Vegas, but you will see a Sony fan hype up Ratchet as a potential megahit.

They're just not that guy, however much you wish otherwise.

And for the record, nobody hypes up Team Ninja as one of the big boys.

Insomniac is kinda like Rare, only they've yet to have their goldeneye or Perfect Dark(n64).

And the time length of the development is moot.

Insomniac creates yearly games which are good, but not the big games of a library.

Other developers take more time, and as such diligence begets more acclaim and lauding.

They make good games, but they don't make gems.

I think the fact that Resistance and Ratchet were both so highly lauded speaks more about the ps3s first year, rather than the merit of their gameplay, to be perfectly honest.

Kameo and Perfect Dark 0 were both lauded in 2005-06, and look how that turned out.

They churn out good games at a great rate, but top tier they're not imo.

Consistent and in touch with their fanbase when it comes to development, but not innovative, imo.

Doesn't make them a bad studio to say they're not one of the big boys. We've all got a role to play, and they do theirs well.

Never said they don't make good enjoyable games(they most certainly do), but my point is that they're not one of the legendary houses.

Intelligent Systems made Thracia 7, one of, if not the most respected srpgs out there not named FFT, and Super Metroid, considered by many to be the perfect game.

Team Ueda makes the Ico games, which is the best studio Sony has by a long shot.

Retro made the highest rated game last gen, and successfully redid one of the most respected franchises in 3d.

Team Lionhead has Molyneux, who has made some of the most ambitious games ever, Black and White having the most advanced ai seen yet, 7 years later.

I repeat, Insomniac fills out a library, but they don't crown it.

They do consistently pump out good games, but that's all they do.

Just don't put expectations on them to create the next BIG game, else disappointment will surely follow.