@Pedro said:

Not a deal breaker in the slightest because

Not only that, if you already own an Xbox it doesn't cost you $500 to play the game. 😎

I am looking forward to seeing my free apartments.

Bro I like u Pedro, but I believe you are on the wrong side of this.

Gamepass is a great value, but if the absolutely abysmal quality of what was shown on thursday is what we can expect, I dont want that shit anywhere near franchises that I care about. The same thing with the Cross-Gen debate.

I think Microsoft needs to:

• Delay this game,
• Completely restart development
• Fix that awful artstyle. Build actual next gen assets.
• Migrate to Unreal Engine 5 (because Slipspace Engine aint it chief),
• Cancel the cross-gen and Lockhart versions,
• Put the PC version on hold (Focus all of their priority/attention on polishing the Series X version, same as every other mainline game in the franchise, and port it to PC only after its done)
• GO AWAY for as long as it takes. Even if it takes 3 years. I would rather wait 3 more years for the next Halo game, than have another BAD Halo game thats going to launch in survival mode and need emergency post launch support.
• And FFS do not mention the words "live service platform that grows over time" or any variation of that statement EVER again. Distance yourself from that shit as far as possible.

This aint a matter of just polishing up the lighting. That entire game seemed uninspired even IF you look past the graphics. There wasnt a single thing shown in that demo that couldn't be done in Just Cause 4 or Far Cry 5 (sans grappling hook for FC5). The writing of that speech at the end was awful. Considering Halo 4 had excellent writing. The animations looked worse also. Damn, Halo 4 is such an unfairly maligned game considering its quality in ALL aspects, was FAR above anything shown on thursday.

Arent you tired of them being constantly embattled in this cycle of being on life support for years, and having to spend the next 3 years doing emergency overhauls, just to finally get a project that barely makes par with what it should've launched to begin with? They're not fighting a war to WIN. They're fighting just to stay alive. We need less of that from Xbox. And Halo.

I'll quote my post in the other thread about why this is the wrong approach. Halo cannot be beholden to having to push Xbox hardware and services, at the expense of Halo's quality and brand equity. That is a short sighted strategy that will only further dimenish the brand equity of this franchise.

IMO, they need to go away, even if it takes 3 years, and only come back when this game is ready. Do what Rockstar does. Dont push your most important game out because you are reacting to what the market is doing. Or because you have an Xbox console you need to sell. Or because Covid is going on and you want to capitalize on the increased market demand.

When Rockstar does something with GTA or RDR, they arent reacting or designing their strategy around what the market is doing. When they launch a game, the entire fukking market moves the phuck out of the way for them.

The Ironic part is......I actually feel bad for 343 Industries, because I honestly dont even believe it is ALL their fault. Alot of the questionable decisions 343 makes are actually based on mandates handed down from Microsoft. It must suck being a studio constantly tasked with shouldering such an enormous responsibility.

Not only do people deep down want them to put out AAAA TLOU/RDR/GTA/GOW/CP77 level mainline Halo games, but they are constantly beholden to having to SELL the Xbox brand, and clean up MS messes. Like, their entire development cycles are based around what the Xbox brand currently needs at the time. They get mandates from above, and when they eventually fail, THEY get blamed for being incompetent, and people want them shut down.

I'll give an example:

• Halo 4: 343 originally wanted Halo 4 to be an Xbox One launch title. MS forced them to put the game on 360, to fill a gap in their portfolio. They had to cut content from the game to fit it onto 2 DVDs, and thats the reason Spartan Ops was free DLC, and the in-game terminal videos took you out of the game and booted up the external Halo Waypoint app. Because they wouldnt fit on the disc. This of course, meant that Halo 5 would be 2 years off from the Xbox One launch. This was confirmed by Bonnie Ross. This brings us to........
• Halo MCC: This game was originally JUST Halo 2: Anniversary, which was already in development. But after Microsofts 2013 debacle, and their disasterous blunder of the Xbox One, Microsoft realized that the Xbox brand could not survive this debacle for 2 years without the next Halo game. So went to 343 and made an emergency move to salvage the Xbox brand. They mandated that 343 port ALL of the halo games to Xbox One, creating the Master Chief collection. Originally 7 different engines (now 11), and 5 diff developers (now 7) all working on one game, in one unified UI. This was thrown together in only 9 months BTW, which is why it launched broken, and they've spent the last 6 years overhauling it and doing massive title updates. This was also confirmed by Bonnie Ross.
• Halo 5: Also rushed out the door with missing features and content, because the Xbox One NEEDED a Halo game as soon as possible. Another game that was hamstrung by the enormous burden of having to sell Xbox hardware.
• And of course, Halo: Infinite. Another Frankenstein game that is clearly not finished, but is being pushed out the door because Microsoft has a new Xbox to sell. But not just that........MS likely forced them to make the game cross-gen, spread its development across 5 platforms, and make it run on the Lockhart, and 2013 Xbox One, and adopt a "live services" business model because this time they are ALSO responsible for having to sell Gamepass.

Their entire development cycles, and business models are beholden to having to sell Xbox consoles/services, and clean up Microsofts PR blunders at the expense of Halo's quality and brand equity. Sacrificing Halo's brand equity, for short term gain.

They get mandates handed down from Microsoft to spread their resources thin, and clean up their PR messes. And when they inevitably fail, 343 gets blamed for it, and attacked, and in some cases harrassed. And people call for them to be shut down.

The fact that there was so much turnover and creative leads leaving the game tells me that there are people within 343 who WERENT monumental morons and they KNEW that this is not what people wanted. They put up a fight, and lost. That, and they seem to be doing a good job with Halo MCC right now. This has to be coming from senior brass at MS, that even goes above Phil Spencer. The bean counters want the Fortnite/PubG/Apex Legens/Destiny/Overwatch audience. Just like they wanted the CoD audience last gen, and Halo 4 reflected that. There are rumors that 343 wanted to do Star Citizen type shiet with a 1:1 Halo ring you could fly to from end to end, etc.....

The following:

1. Forza Horizon 3
2. Forza Horizon 4
3. Ori And The Will Of The Wisps

• 2 of those are racing games (and Iterative racing games at that, meaning the previous game loses value after the next).
• The third game is a 2d sidescroller.
• All are multiplats that run better or are better experienced on platforms other than Xbox.

These are the ONLY 3 90 rated games on metacritic released by Xbox Game Studios since 2011. Know whats worse? Even in 2011, the last 2 90MC games released by Microsoft were Forza Motorsport 4 and Gears of War 3.

I want you to meditate on this.......Sony has released not one but TWO The Last Of Us games in this timeframe. And Bloodborne. And God of War. And Uncharted 4. Plus Persona 5 (not Sony, but still exclusive)

This shit needs to be called out, and they need to be roasted daily for this shit lol.

This is absolutely acceptable.

The Ironic part is......I actually feel bad for 343 Industries, because I honestly dont even believe it is ALL their fault. Alot of the questionable decisions 343 makes are actually based on mandates handed down from Microsoft. It must suck being a studio constantly tasked with shouldering such an enormous responsibility.

Not only do people deep down want them to put out AAAA TLOU/RDR/GTA/GOW/CP77 level mainline Halo games, but they are constantly beholden to having to SELL the Xbox brand, and clean up MS messes. Like, their entire development cycles are based around what the Xbox brand currently needs at the time. They get mandates from above, and when they eventually fail, THEY get blamed for being incompetent, and people want them shut down.

I'll give an example:

• Halo 4: 343 originally wanted Halo 4 to be an Xbox One launch title. MS forced them to put the game on 360, to fill a gap in their portfolio. They had to cut content from the game to fit it onto 2 DVDs, and thats the reason Spartan Ops was free DLC, and the in-game terminal videos took you out of the game and booted up the external Halo Waypoint app. Because they wouldnt fit on the disc. This of course, meant that Halo 5 would be 2 years off from the Xbox One launch. This was confirmed by Bonnie Ross. This brings us to........
• Halo MCC: This game was originally JUST Halo 2: Anniversary, which was already in development. But after Microsofts 2013 debacle, and their disasterous blunder of the Xbox One, Microsoft realized that the Xbox brand could not survive this debacle for 2 years without the next Halo game. So went to 343 and made an emergency move to salvage the Xbox brand. They mandated that 343 port ALL of the halo games to Xbox One, creating the Master Chief collection. Originally 7 different engines (now 11), and 5 diff developers (now 7) all working on one game, in one unified UI. This was thrown together in only 9 months BTW, which is why it launched broken, and they've spent the last 6 years overhauling it and doing massive title updates. This was also confirmed by Bonnie Ross.
• Halo 5: Also rushed out the door with missing features and content, because the Xbox One NEEDED a Halo game as soon as possible. Another game that was hamstrung by the enormous burden of having to sell Xbox hardware.
• And of course, Halo: Infinite. Another Frankenstein game that is clearly not finished, but is being pushed out the door because Microsoft has a new Xbox to sell. But not just that........MS likely forced them to make the game cross-gen, spread its development across 5 platforms, and make it run on the Lockhart, and 2013 Xbox One, and adopt a "live services" business model because this time they are ALSO responsible for having to sell Gamepass.

Their entire development cycles, and business models are beholden to having to sell Xbox consoles/services, and clean up Microsofts PR blunders at the expense of Halo's quality and brand equity. Sacrificing Halo's brand equity, for short term gain.

They get mandates handed down from Microsoft to spread their resources thin, and clean up their PR messes. And when they inevitably fail, 343 gets blamed for it, and attacked, and in some cases harrassed. And people call for them to be shut down.

The fact that there was so much turnover and creative leads leaving the game tells me that there are people within 343 who WERENT monumental morons and they KNEW that this is not what people wanted. They put up a fight, and lost. That, and they seem to be doing a good job with Halo MCC right now. This has to be coming from senior brass at MS, that even goes above Phil Spencer. The bean counters want the Fortnite/PubG/Apex Legens/Destiny/Overwatch audience. Just like they wanted the CoD audience last gen, and Halo 4 reflected that. There are rumors that 343 wanted to do Star Citizen type shiet with a 1:1 Halo ring you could fly to from end to end, etc.....

Nah son, it being an "Older build" doesnt mean anything. The game is feature complete. What you saw in that trailer is indicative of what the near final product is. Nothing is going to change other than minor changes to the lighting. The actual assets and textures are unfinished, low rez and low poly. Lighting doesnt make the base models of the games assets magically have more polygons. I've even seen Halo channels suggesting that the Banished Phantom that flies by in the gameplay trailer is an asset ripped DIRECTLY from Halo Wars 2 and inserted into the game. No, not the model from the BLUR cinematics for Halo Wars 2, the GAMEPLAY version from Halo Wars 2. Oof.

I suspect alot of the assets we've seen in game that people are roasting are higher res versions of GAMEPLAY assets from Halo Wars 2.

Its like saying:

I want you to engage me in a thought experiment.

Watch the following 4 videos. These are the Blur Studios pre-rendered cinematics for Halo Wars 2. Yes.......I am aware that they are pre-rendered CGI videos. Stay with me here, System Wars. I'll meet you at the bottom when you're done.

Watched them yet? Great.

Now watch the following Horizon: Forbidden West in-engine PS5 trailer.

That trailer was running in real time, on a Playstation 5. The point of this thought experiment was that this trailer looks AT LEAST as good (if not better) than those pre-rendered Blur cinematics for Halo Wars 2. That is on a console WEAKER than the Xbox Series X.

The quality of the Horizon: Forbidden West trailer (which BTW was running at 4k60fps) PROVES that the graphics in the above videos are more than possible for a Halo game on a console with 12 teraflops and a STILL very fast SSD.

This should also completely put to bed the question of whether or not Cross-Gen game development was a good idea. I made a thread the other day (pre-conference) that, while conciliatory that I prefered Sony's stance on this, STILL gave oxygen to Microsoft's, and I gave them the benefit of the doubt. That was a mistake that will NEVER happen again. What Microsoft felt comfortable showing of Halo: Infinite on thursday was absolutely unnacceptable. If that game releases in that state in the next 4 months, this is going to be Mass Effect: Andromeda all over again.

It will probably get in the 70s on metacritic (on name alone, which means in reality it should be in the 60s)

Whoever in the absolute blueberry phuck thought it was a good idea to spread development of Microsoft's most important game across 5 platforms (one of them a 1.3TF console with tablet cores, 68.2 GB/s DDR3 memory bandwidth, and a 5400rpm HDD) when not a single soul on earth asked them to do so, needs to be fired.

There is no way on earth this game is launching in the next 4 months.

Whoa boy, the amount of abstract words used in that drivel I just read is physically painful lol. Such cringey nonsense. Yea, im not going to be an early access pre-alpha tester for your game, and PAY you for the trouble.

When you hire a bunch of "ideas people" to make games for you, this is what happens.

The game comes out in LESS than 4 months.

The game will have to go gold at least a month before that, but not less than 3 weeks at most. So realistically, they have about 3 months to do actual work on the game.

Not gonna happen, sorry. The game needs to be delayed 1-2 years, and completely overhauled. Give it to a different developer. Go back to the pre-production stage, drop the cross-gen bullshit that literally not a single soul in existance asked for them to do. Why in the absolute blueberry phuck did they think spreading the games development out across 5 platforms, including a 1.3 TF console was a good idea?

There was a reason this game comes out in less than 4 months, and this is the first time you are seeing gameplay. That was on purpose. Halo 5 had an open public beta a YEAR before its launch. Think about that.

^^^^That was in February.

Im going say I dont trust Everwild.

Huge red flags:

Any time a developer utters some variation of the following sentence: "we view our game as a live service that grows and evolves over time" RUN FAR FAR AWAY AND RUN FAST.

We heard the same shit with Sea of Thieves, Anthem, Fallout 76, Drawn to Death, etc.....

It just means they did all of the fun parts of game development, the easiest, creative, and most instantly rewarding parts like creating an Intellectual Property, creating beautiful artwork, animation and prototyping, but they dont have any actual ideas about what the game is so they just developed the barebones skeleton of a videogame.

A barebones skeleton with no meat, which they are THEN going to sell to you for $60, and hope you'll wait around for 3 years while they figure out what the hell their actual game is, and add "content" to it. Oof. That word "Content". I remember when it was just called a "buying a video game".

We heard leaks from ex Rare devs from the Sea of Thieves days, claiming that Rare themselves didnt even know what the game was, and didnt really have a plan.

Thats another red flag. The fact that this game's trailers are super vague about its nature like this, and its not exactly clear what the purpose of the game is. Im honestly convinced they have nothing other than a brand name/logo, some assets/environments, and some animations of characters running around in an UE4 sandbox. Any one of us could do that. I myself could do that. (though at a lower quality obviously. Im not denying the objective quality of the art/animations). Nothing about random (albeit nice looking) character models running around in an UE4 sandbox that one guy on one computer in his house somewhere could throw together impresses me, and doesnt lead me to believe they have an actual game beyond the trailer.

Another thing we should be weary of (Esp. in the wake of games like Death Stranding) are games that base their entire marketing strategy around how "look how weird we are, were sooooo different and vague, I wonder what this game is about". Look, Im all for games being vague, but if I get even one wiff that this is being used as a lampshade to mask the fact that you yourself dont even know what your game is yet

......Bye Felicia

Avowed will probably be good, though.

Alot of people loved the Halo Wars 2 artstyle, or atleast the artstyle in the Blur curscenes for the game. They were roundly celebrated for it, as a return to form. Especially after the initial E3 reveal in 2016. I dont see why they didnt just copy that artstyle. Hell, they copied The Banished from the game. I know they're CGI Blur cutscenes, but on a 12TF console, something approaching the above videos is not out of the realm of possibility. At least not artistically.

Go look at the Horizon: Forbidden West teaser. It doesnt look that far outside the realm of the prerendered Blur cutscenes above. This is what the Banished could have looked like. That 2nd video is what the Halo ring could have looked like. Instead......we got a game that looks like that cancelled MegaBlox Halo game.