She is not a normal kid... wrong, she is a normal kid, a normal kid in a not normal world. But at the end of the day she only has 14 years old. Think about any kid you can think about with 14 years old and tell me how mature they are. Now, if you find some of them who is mature add to them Ellies trauma and depression... and now think about their decision process...
"she didn't come to her decision on the fly..."
Of course not, but all her decision process is based on grief, pain, sorrow and guilt. Let her have some happiness before making a decision like that. Let her grow up a bit in order to decide her future. Let her be at very least 18 years old...
I really believe (or hope) that you are not a father. Any father (no matter how nice or good person) will put the life of their sons/daughters first. It's not only the essence of love, it's also the veil of protection that comes with that love. As a father I would have done what Joel did without any regrets. But also because of that, as a father I would never judge Joel for what he did. It was natural and a basic principle.
What I do believe is that, when Ellie achieves adulthood she deserves the truth. But again, as a father, to tell your "son/daughter" something that can lead to her death... its not so simple.
@mogan: "Joel didn't do what he did for Ellie, he did it for himself."
What? LOL... I can grant you part of a selfish moment in his decision. His past are still present. But to deny that Joel loves Ellie and his actions are based on that love makes no sense at all. TLOU2 is pretty clear about this.
"But he knows if she were awake and told what was happening, she'd still go through with it, and he doesn't want that."
Yes... But you also know that Ellie is traumatised, first because of Riley and then because of David. She is still a child without very knowledge about life, very few life experience and in clear depression.
The funny part about your reply is that you use Ellie´s words to Joel to justify your claims, yet you dont seem to care about the things/actions that leads into those words...
@mogan: Well, he does kills a lot of people in the process, but all that people is protecting the ones who are going to killed Ellie so...
He kills the ones who are trying to stop him (from saving Ellie) or are trying to kill him. To put the blame on Joel makes no sense.
"dooming their efforts to save the entire world"
When that effort is based on the premise of killing an innocent child... well, let just say I´m not onboard with that.
"in order to protect himself from some emotional pain"
That's a simplification. Yes, his decision is selfish, but at the same time it is emotional and based on pure love. And I say this as a father... there is not a single father that wouldn't have done the same thing (sorry the bad English and bad grammar, I have a feeling this sentence is not well written).
"That seems like a pretty villainous thing to do."
There is nothing villainous in saving a child from being killed. At the end of the day that's what he do. The only thing he does wrong is the "lie" in the end. Yet, it makes sense in order to protect this child that thinks that her life has no value (besides a possible cure).
@chriss_m: "Ellie kills lots and lots of people without being able to claim self-defence."
Wrong. If you disagree just wave at them and see what happens. Not all places are like Jackson, obviously this is a narrative strategy, but it fits perfectly. And like I said, Ellie is brutal in the first journey, and she would kill Abby in a blink of an eye. But that is not the Ellie we take a second journey.
"You clearly found this very basic story..."
Hey, I never said it was deep, what I´m saying is that you don't understand this basic story. Especially if you think is just a revenge story.
"Me want to kill you because you killed someone I loved but then I decide not to kill you after I have killed a mountain of people to get to you' is somehow profound?"
Ok... You forget that only two people die at Ellie's hand by direct execution. Still trying to find who am I talking about?
You forget Lev, and the effects of killing Abby... And the game even helps you with that... using Ellies words...
But most importantly, you simply dont understand Ellie second journey, that has absolutely nothing to do with revenge. I mean... she goes after Abby because she thinks she wants revenge, but its not revenge what she was after... Sorry... now I made things even more complicated for you... you believe it's all about revenge...
@chriss_m: "because I’d argue that I’m objectively right"
That's your right... but you would be wrong again...
"A very basic story of revenge (that’s the entire depth of the story), with a very basic underlying message of revenge being bad and costing more than it‘s worth."
The funny part about this... and you put a smile in my face... is that the story of the game just went over your head... way, way over your head... and now I get were you come, and the limitations to were you can go.
Some basic points you missed...
1. Ellie only kills two persons out of the self defence shield. Can you identify them? It's easy, maybe not for you, but easy.
2. Abby has no justifications, she has an obsession that destroys other people's lives and her own. The same path Ellie is following...
3. If you think that the Ellie that finds Abby in the end is the same Ellie that hunts Abby in the beginning, then you were not paying attention... what am I saying, we already know you were not paying attention...
4. Ellie doesn't allows Abby to live, she also saves a kid in the process... Oh right, you were not paying attention to that situation. too...
I could go on this basic logic for a very long time, no need, first you need to pay attention to the story... revenge is an essential part of the narrative but clearly not the most important theme... The revenge story you are talking about is Ellie first journey. You still have Abby journey and ELlie second journey...
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