@bloodbornelore: What I find interesting in our debate is the idea that I'm trying to define who you are... And the funny thing is that you are really trying to define who I am in the process. In the end of our conversation I can assure you two things, I`m not going to know who you are, neither you will know who I am.
My opinions are not based on left, right or center... they are based in what is happening. And thats why, in all my life I already voted in the left, the right, but most of the time the center (right or left). But you keep trying to define who I am, I guess its your way to have fun...
You keep talking about the "ridiculousness of your logic" yet, you never contradict none of my main points. I explained to you, several times why I said that people with Nazi ornamentations are on Gina´s side, but you keep bringing "Prince Harry outfit" to the discussion.
I explained why I am on Disney side and why I disagree with Gina. I never said that her freedom of speech must be taken away, only that freedom of speech does not comes without responsibility.
I said that this is not a political move, it as public relations move. To me this is just a company trying to not be associated with a toxic asset. It doesnt matter if you or other people think that she is not a toxic asset, it only matters what Disney thinks because they are the ones who have to deal with her.
So, the conversation so far was fun, but none of these things changed. You can jump, you can cry, you can call names and you can be offended, but none of the previous statements are a lie, only simple facts.
Now... returning to your post...
"Trump is a thing of the past..."
No it is no... And you know it so well as I do...I know my English is not good, but if you fail to understand the reason I said his name, then that's on you.
"bringing up Brexit"
Actually, in the next post I told you it was a joke. Yet, you enjoyed the idea of a Brexit debate (which is crazy because we are debating something we both agree with), and then somehow you made the discussion about Nationalism, which I said it was dumb.
But it helps you in the victimization process... right?
"All out of jealousy of a belief about the UK getting special treatment?"
See... I stated a fact, and now, your reaction puts the word "All out of jealousy" in the spotlight. I feel the need to reply to it, but doing so your process of victimization will continue. It is nice move, if I cared...LOL So obviously, I will reply.
I was not jealous, but as an European citizen I never understood how one country had some special treatment over the other countries. That's not how I see team work, and certainly thats not how unity is achieved. But I'm just a man, in a very small country. If people in France, Spain, Germany and Italy were ok with it... well, democracy...
When you guys decide to go away things changed, now everyone is (technically) equal, and that's something I appreciate. So you guys are happy, we are happy, everyone is happy... How the hell is this being nacionalistic? Get a grip man, on this topic I am a supporter of your country decision.
"makes you such a complete and utter buffoon."
This is incredibly funny to me. In our debate you already called me a ton of names, put in question my intelligence, said that I was trolling you and that I was stalking you online. You seem clearly upset most of the time and unable to accept that there are people with different views about Gina´s situation.
So... do you really believe that I´m the emotional man in the debate? Do you really believe that I'm the one struggling to rationalise? Do you really believe that I´m the guy with nationalist feelings when the diva (first name calling) attitude comes from you after a joke about brexit?
Let me use your words: "Just how long are you going to keep making a fool of yourself?"
@bloodbornelore: Your last post disappear. I don't know if you backtracked and deleted the post or if you put the discussion to rest. Both choices are fine with me, because let me be clear, I´am not "stalking on you". I just wanted this to be clear.
Considering our personal positions we probably are going to clash again... But I never look to the avatar. So if thats the case warn me, and I will not engage a conversation. I dont like to upset people. :)
@bloodbornelore: "I’m DEFINITELY going to blame you"
I wouldn't expect otherwise... LOL
"before you brought up your ornamentations banal."
Banal? Oh, but there is nothing banal in people with Nazi ornamentation. Trust me on this...
"You cheeky scoundrel."
We have to start counting the times you call me something...
"You can’t muck around with me..."
LOL... I dont muck with anyone... at least not in here...
"I can tell English isn’t your first language."
Yeah... Sorry about that. But if I start writing Portuguese the conversation is over... LOL
"You’re not in any position..."
Oh... But that's where you are wrong.
If my position was dubious maybe, but I was crystal clear from the start. Gina out? It makes sense. Disney position? It makes sense, I agree with them. Nazis? Bad... Clowns dressed with Nazi ornamentations? Bad... Halloween Nazis? Disgusting.
My position is so simple that it hurts...
"It exposes the maladjustment of your rationale."
It must be hard to talk to a person that dont uses this kind of argumentation. I strongly disagree with you, that's clear, but I never call you nothing, nor I question your intelligence or your intellect. Yet, in your replies you always need to say something to try to put you in the high ground. That is weak argumentation in my book.
"You brought up ornamentations WAY later. That’s your obsession, not mine."
Obsession. Lest look back. Gina compared republicans with Jews. We look the republican side and what we see? People with Nazi ornamentations, and Nazi ideologies. Are we talking about all republicans? Obviously not. But they are there and they are republican. They are also the biggest Trump supporters, and there are reasons for that to happen. So, when Gina compare republicans with Jews she is calling to those guys (the ones with Nazi ornamentations) Jews... Now... Do I need to explain you the irony on all of this?
I'm asking because considering your "major rationale" standpoint... that should have been obvious since the start.
"I still don’t understand why you brought up Brexit or Britains being “special”."
You know why... Even when England was in the EU you guys had a special treatment. Which at my eyes is insane. But that's just my opinion.
"Because “disgusting” is a stronger word than “offended”."
Really? Well, if that's the case, I'm offended... LOL. I always thought that disgusting was a soft way to talk about something I dont like. But hey, when it comes to learning words and grammar I always appretiate the help. I´m the first to accept my limitations in the English language.
In my language if someone is "offended" there is going to be problems. By nature, physical ones. That's why "offended" was never a choice for me.
"You’re not even making any sense now."
What I said: "those words mean nothing because of guys like you."
Your question should have been: "Guys like me?"
And I would say: "Yes, Guys who use that word for every situation..."
But you didn't allow me to reply, so you replied for me: "Guys like me? You mean Nazi-loving Trump-supporting Americans like me?"
So I wasn't calling you nothing... you did that by yourself...
"you’s a blind sheep."
I'll add this one to the others... LOL
"you’re the one who keeps making all the mistaken assumptions, remember? Not me."
By now, you probably did more mistaken assumptions than me...
"Bringing up Brexit is what precisely exposes your nationalistic agenda..."
LOLOLOLOL... I made a joke about you guys didn't like us and by that joke you go full crazy... Even after I told you that Brexit is a good thing, that I agree with you guys... Damn... You guys are really special... What did you said about the snowflake thing?
"I knew you’d be a trickster in this debate and try to twist my question into a statement that wasn’t about dressing up in a costume..."
Then the blame is on you. My first statement was not about dresses and costumes, it was about ornamentations in a day to day basis. Those guys are not dressed for Halloween, and you know that as well as I do...
"All you’re doing is exposing your own overtly-sensitive, easily offended, lefty-lofty, snowflake mindset. No?"
No... I just dont like Nazis, people with Nazi ornamentations and people with Nazi ideologies. I'm pretty sure I can think this way without being a overtly-sensitive, easily offended, lefty-lofty, snowflake. But if I need to be all that to hate Nazis, then count me in.
"to be quite frank with you, we don’t actually give Portugal a moment’s thought"
Good, that's the way I like it. I always say that the little fishes need to pay attention, not the big fishes...
"I don’t think you’re a bad person at all. Just a misguided fool..."
Everyone can be a misguided fool, that doesn't change if it is a bad person or not... LOL
"Just a misguided fool with competitive nationalistic incentive."
Totally wrong. Not a bit of competitive nationalistic in me... Well, maybe a bit in sports, and certainly with FC Porto on the mix, but I wouldn't say that "nationalism" is the right word.
"You’re also deeply in denial about Cancel Culture..."
Because it has become a word used for everything. So, in that regard cancel culture always happened, and it affects all society, no matter the political view.
And like I told you, if every decision is cancel culture, then cancel culture is not a thing.
"Then you started trolling me."
I never trolled no one. And I say this without smiles or laughs.
"You’re playing into a Brit’s insecurities now, mate."
I'm just stating a fact. Europe used to have 3 major countries, England, Germany and France. And they were the leaders of Europe, which is normal considering the power of those countries. I believe that a team is as strong as the unity of the players. So, because of that, I was ok with Brexit. It was the best for Europe. But at the same time the team loses one of the most important players. There is a reason for Trump happiness with England departure from Europe. And we all know that if Trump is happy for something we are doing, then we are doing something stupid. The stupid thing is that Europe is weaker without England and England is not a threat alone.
@bloodbornelore: "That’s not true and you know it."
Wait a second... Were you not defending the use of Nazi ornamentation? Yes, you use Halloween as a scapegoat, but even so, thats your take on it. So, dont blame me on that...
"It’s such classic desperation to see you diverge from the topic we’re discussing..."
The topic is as simple as I agree with Disney, and you don't... the ratification of the conversation was a choice from both of us...
"You don’t know how I feel about Nazi’s..."
No... But I know how you feel about people with Nazi ornamentation... :)
"you’re twisting that as a ways to attack me as a Brit."
Attacking you as a Brit? I told you this a hundred times, my problem is the extreme right. You being a Brit, American, Spanish or even Portuguese would change nothing at my eyes.
"Another pathetic, snowflake, butt-hurt reaction to a simple question."
You should read yourself... :)
"why you wouldn’t be offended with me being dressed up as Genghis Khan, Stalin or Napoleon"
Because the Nazi influence still lives. The ideology, the hate, the idea of supremacy... and so on... I never saw a group of people with Roman, Genghis Khan, or Napoleon outfits in a day to day basis trying to creat groups that makes descrimination its main force. But if I have to explain you this... buff, thats a problem...
"I know, you’re offended of the idea of a Brit like Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi."
Offended? Really? I told you before, the word offended is way to strong. I see it as disgusting. But thats not my problem, so why would I be offended?
"Please quote what I’ve said about Nazis that’s offended you so much."
Again... Offended? LOL... As I told you, I don't give them any kind of margin. There is no excuses at my eyes to people with those kind of ideologies. You are more "liberal" about it. Good for you, but I dont play with these things. When it comes to those guys every little space they get is a hole we dig in the idea of humanity. Hey, but thats me, I dont need everyone to agrees with me.
"you literally just you felt saddened by me being a Brit who contemplated the idea of dressing up as a Nazi"
Yes... But feel sad with that idea doesnt mean Im offended. You like that word too much...
"Your desperation knows no bounds."
Yes... I cant breath... The desperation... Oh the desperation... LOL
"Another assumption about me? Guys like me? You mean Nazi-loving Trump-supporting Americans like me? Lol."
No... Guys who use that word for every situation...
But I loved your own portray of the situation. It's a great victimization process. And then you reply to your own view, which is great. But I will not dive into it because those assumptions are on you...
"If this was a press conference or a public debate, the audience..."
Oh... You don't get it... I don't care... LOL... I don't follow the flock, I told you before.
"I think I’ve more than shown enough good will in this debate."
I think I did the same... but you probably disagree.
"because you snowflakes think it’s portraying"
Are you sure you are talking about me? LOL...
"That’s why you’re a blind snake and instead believe and make up so much awful crap about me."
Oh, now we are playing too much with my name... and thats how you want to give value to your ideas? Ok then...
"How about I talk about Portugal’s economy woes?"
If you want... I don't care about British economy. But if Portuguese economy is important to you, that´s fine. But I got to say it is a surprise...
"I’m not a nationalistic xenophobe like you"
The funny thing in this reply is that, besides the fact you don't know me, "nationalistic" is the last thing you can call me. In fact, I believe that nationalism is one of the stupidest thing. But then again, thats a different topic.
But keep trying, maybe you will hit the nail sometime... :)
@bloodbornelore: "You’ve gotten a lot of things wrong, haven’t you?"
It would not be the first time... everyone makes mistakes... Ahaha...
"not being able to identify any bias within any media outlet"
Oh, I can identify some bias, and that bias is in everywhere. The difference is that I'm not much of a guy who enjoys conspiracy theories...
"Insinuating that I’m a Nazi lover."
I didn't insinuate, I said that I find those guys despicable and disgusting, and you dont... But thats was just what you said... I never said you were a Nazi lover. You are just ok with people using Nazi ornamentations and I don't...
"Insinuating I’m some right-wing Trumpanzie. Thinking I’m American."
That was what I took from your reply. Now look at this: "Bro, I´m form the UK"
There would be no misunderstandings... but I guess it is something hard to say...
"Then having a jab at Brexit after learning I’m British."
What? I was kidding when I said you guys didn't like us... Damn... This is top nosh victimization... What did you said about snowflakes?
"Thinking the British don’t like the Portuguese for some unknown reason you won’t reveal."
You guys are our best clients... Right now companies in Algarve are crying for your people to arrive. So, yes, British people dont hate Portuguese people, nor Portuguese people hate British people.
But I still believe that you guys are a "special" kind of people. Not because you are special, every people of any country is special, but because you guys think you are special. (Much in the same way the US think they are special). But I guess it must be a cultural thing...
"Well... if the Portuguese all behave like you... would you blame us for not liking you?"
Wait... You guys really hate us? LOL
"You’ve shown so much disdain towards a lot of people."
And yet my most important statement is as simple as... I agree with Disney decision... nothing more, nothing less...
"You hide it behind polite manners and honestly, I find it incredibly fake and dishonest of you."
Because in your mind I'm a bad person who is defending an authoritarian position and is stopping freedom of speech. Which is not true. And obviously, I try not to insult no one, thats not my style. I´m defending my position ands thats it. On a side note, I really believe that you would be surprised if you really knew me.
"Maybe you should just stay in Portugal then if you’re going to be xenophobic of others, where they come from and their political views."
Oh, I will stay as much as I can... I´m not a travel kind of guy. I enjoy the comfort of my house and sports, especially tennis and football. But my wife... well she is a game changer, so I will probably travel in the next years.
I´m only xenophobic with the extreme right... I don't care the country they are from...
"Your stance is authoritarian. Not libertarian."
Yes, I know... Because I believe that a private company must be allowed to choose the people they want to work with... :)
"Blind Snake? Name checks out."
Yes it does... Naked snake was taken...
"You sure like to look for that something to be adversarial towards and pick a side... so easily distracted."
You may not realise... but you did the same... otherwise we would not be having this conversation...
"I’m sure pragmatic politics and practical policies are lost on you then."
I would love to say yes... or no... but that depends what you consider pragmatic politics and practical policies...
"And there’s not anything special about leaving the EU. Lots of countries have done it."
Agree... Hey... But give your country some credit... You guys were not just one country, you were also one of our leaders... there is a difference...
@bloodbornelore: "oh, so because I defend costume dress up at Halloween or whatever, you think I defend actual Nazi-lovers?"
I don't know what you defend... I do know I find them disgusting and you dont... And that's enough for me...
Knowing you belong to an European country just make things worse at my eyes... also, knowing that you belong to a country who was essential to the liberation from those demons just makes me sad...
"You seem to be offended by everything."
No, not really... But you seem to think that every reply or idea is based on an offended feeling... and thats in a way... interesting...
"From Brexit to Republican views to freedom of expression."
Then you are not paying attention. I'm totally fine with Brexit (totally in favor), I'm ok with republicans, democrats and whatever, everyone is free to choose their own paths... And I believe in freedom of expression, but not without consequences if that freedom hurts other people or have a bad connotation behind it.
"What differentiates us is your snowflake mentality."
Ah... Yes... The snowflake adjective... It took its time but here it is... Yup... I was really waiting for this one... Agenda, cancel culture, snowflake.... those words mean nothing because of guys like you.
"You can’t twist the reality of the situation."
Twist reality? Gina said stupid things and Disney decided to not work with her anymore. Gina free speech was never broke, and Disney freedom of choice was also not broken. Thats as much of a reality that you can get...
But then some people become offended (snowflakes), they decided to cancel Disney (Cancel culture), because to them is about politics (agenda)... LOL... I´m just having fun with this, but I hope you understand what I did here...
"So get YOUR shit together."
I never questioned Gina liberty to say whatever she wants to say... I question the same lack of logic when it comes for Disney freedom of choice.
"Man, you sure can’t handle coming to terms with the fact that your stance on Gina is of authoritarian nature."
Authoritarian? Is Gina freedom of speech blocked in any way? Did someone stop her to write those things? Her freedom of speech was never in question. But the ramifications of what she said is what matters.
If you gonna say something in a public way (especially if you are famous), your opinion will reach a lot of places. And that opinion may hurt other people, it may put in danger other people, and it may hurt you public image (on this case Disney).
The authoritarian thing is to make Disney work with a person they don't want to work anymore...
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