CES '08: 360 could do an 180 on Blu-ray

I ALREADY no wat gonna happen MS will make a blu ray add on and keep da hd dvd drives coming and just make da consumer choose which one they want and everyone will b happy. it's realli that simple it may cost more to have 2 different drives out at once but MS got the loot for that . there shd b no agrument about this ....but then i again i wood go for a hd ova blu ray it's like y im paying more for a blu ray just cause it can hold more memory :S when i all realli wanna do is watch my movie in hi def i realli don't care bout da extra stuff on the disc just the movie and a hd player can play like anything and they just upgrade da memory on hd sooo..wats da big deal

MS is not doing a 180. They have always said, they want to give consumers the choice and if they choose Blu-ray that the 360 will be capable of playing Blu-ray media. << LINK REMOVED >> This article is an year old but I remember them mentioning possible support for Blu-ray even before then. I personally like HD-DVDs interactive features that have been available on them from day 1 whereas Blu-ray is just beginning to implement them.

The term Trojan Horse doesn't apply here. The Trojan Horse held the Greek army hidden inside and when it was accepted by the city of Troy the army leaped out and seized the city. Blu Ray was never concealed inside the PS3. Though many people's opinions of it are varied, it never was hidden under our noses. Blu Ray was "piggybacked" on to the PS3. And again, according to Business week the real reason for MS for supporting HD-DVD was their VC-1 Codec. Blu Ray uses a Java based script. Microsoft wanted a piece of the action from every bit of HD-DVD equipment and sales that used the VC-1 codec. The Blu Ray disc as a storage medium is a side benefit of the format. Like I've stated before UbiSoft has stated that they had trouble fitting Assassin's Creed on to a DVD9.

I really have a suspicion that Sony's insistence on putting a Blu-ray drive into the PS3 was motivated for a couple of reasons far stronger than the increased storage they provide over DVDs. The Trojan Horse. Of course this was done to promote the Blu-ray format and quickly get it into the hands of gamers everywhere. This motive was pretty well understood from the get-go. Protection. Sony was darn sick of having it's PS2 discs bootlegged by every kid with a mod-chip, so they switch to the harder-to-duplicate Blu-ray format. Voila! Far fewer bootleg games floating around. I really suspect that the "protection" angle played a far greater role than most people think. PS -- if you think the format of choice will/should be the one that's technically superior, then you don't understand market dynamics.

CaptainHerlock, I think you are istaken about that. HD-DVD and Blu-ray are very similar. They just have very different names. The only difference is really the fact that Blu-ray has the data grooves cut closer together. The software on each disc makes them a bit different after that, but Blu-ray isn't exactly newer technology, they are very similar, just owned by different companies. By the way, BVCX's profile: Age: 32 Location: Mother's Basement Occupation: PP

It's funny to read people's skewed "black and white" opinions on affairs that they have a personal interest in. For instance, Microsoft "gives up" on its consumer base, as gwenaellp and others have suggested? Let's see, MS supported Windows 95 up until just a few years ago. And if you followed very closely over the last 5 years, MS was losing money and was showing no sign of profit on the original Xbox. As a company, you can't continue to invest money into something that is sinking; its just crazy. And when the 360 hit the market, many of the initial sales were to, you guessed it, original Xbox owners who wouldn't turn on the original again for a long time. And do you really believe that they don't support Vista? I mean, do you NOT remember Millinium, the WORST iteration of an OS ever? Or Win2K, that's list of supported programs (read GAMES) was very little due to its mediocre support of FAT32 files over its preferred NTFS. It was the lack of preparedness from 3rd party vendors (who had DK's 9 months before release) that has caused it to be a miffed OS launch (OK, MS had a lot to do with that too, but it IS a two way street!). MS hasn't dumped HD-DVD, they are just in a better position to offer alternatives because the tech isn't tied to its functionality. What are you guys expecting from MS; should they need to buy out the competition so that the few people that do own it can be happy? Trust me, I'm angry that the format is doomed; I have the add-on and a decent library of movies in the format. Guess I'll just have to get a sub-par player that does both so I won't have to the discs, but the player is pretty much useless IF THE FORMAT DIES. Really, you shouldn't be so quick to judge the motives of a company in a capitalist market.

For the record there are now adult movies being released on Blu Ray. What's "cheaper" isn't necessarily better. Unless you follow the Wal Mart philosophy. And you are quite mistaken if you think that Blu Ray players don't support all formats. Using the PS3 as an example it plays everything. The thing about Blu Ray is it's a new technology. Where HD-DVD uses currently existing DVD technology.

Sam: now we're friends lets kiss true: Ok Sam:gribble gribble gribble true:hhhmmmm awhooga

Sammojo, Thank you very much for the clarification, and I do hope to be getting a PS3 soon (just waiting on the funds so far). For the record I agree that DMWhiteDragon is right.

true_apollo, i was only replying to a post from before where a guy said HD-DVD was better because of triple layer. I was just pointing out that both can have triple layer, nothing else. good luck with getting a ps3 anyway.

Sammojo "Maybe in America buddy but don't forget the rest of the world. Australia is still struggling with slow internet and capped downloads. HD downloads are not the way to go just yet, I'm sorry." My apologies for not considering Australia in the diagnosis of broadband speeds, but when truly considering the largest world markets for this technology (Japan, Korea, Western Europe, and America) America actually has the slowest broadband. Because of this, it is reasonable to expect HD movie downloads to overtake disc sales in the next few years.

seriously i'am really dissappointed about the fact that i bought my brother a hd dvd player for my 360. and now they stopped making those dam dvds. They should just keep it blue ray but microsoft should produce an external blu ray player or internal blu ray player.

Sammojo ""true_apollo-Yes BD is the superior technology and can store way more info, but that extra space doesn't mean squat if movies fit on one layer just fine." What are you trying to prove here. That BD shouldn't be used?" I'm not saying that BD shouldn't be used. I have yet to invest in either side and I enjoy the benefit of seeing both sides from an outside perspective. I am merely pointing out that the size of the storage space on the discs cannot and should not be called the lone deciding factor of BD over HD-DVD because for movies it doesn't matter.

Call me a HD-DVD fanboy if you want, but you might be interested to know my current leanings are more towards BD tech since WB went all BD and Paramount is expected to do so soon as well. It all fits in to my expectation that I'll get a PS3 eventually, and it just makes it one more selling point that is now truly viable.

Aye im still stuck in little Port Macquarie on 512k ADSL... im lucky to get 60k/sec downloads. I have to pause videos to let them cache or i can't watch them :'( Moving to Sydney soon so i might see how cable does me, we got ADSL2 recently enabled here however but most ISP's have rediculously LOW bandwidth and the speeds ppl are getting in this area on ADSL2 are (beep) sometimes only eq to a 1,512k ADSL connection lol Bandwidth simply costs way to much here aswell, maybe we need to skip wires altogether and work on getting wireless better/faster heh

Um hasn't Microsoft always said that they would look into a Blu-Ray drive if it won the format war and there was a demand for it?

DMWhiteDragon is pretty much right.

true_apollo - "...as America's broadband speeds increase and HD movie..." Maybe in America buddy but don't forget the rest of the world. Australia is still struggling with slow internet and capped downloads. HD downloads are not the way to go just yet, I'm sorry. "Yes BD is the superior technology and can store way more info, but that extra space doesn't mean squat if movies fit on one layer just fine." What are you trying to prove here. That BD shouldn't be used?

Damage Control!!

Sammojo, not to burst your bubble or anything, but plenty of current BD movies ship on single layer discs because, well, that's all the space they need. Yes BD is the superior technology and can store way more info, but that extra space doesn't mean squat if movies fit on one layer just fine.

Well put Rhymic, the only thing I would point out in addition to what you said is the little-known fact that might still swing things in HD-DVD's favor: The Adult entertainment industry is the biggest player in terms of sales in the DVD market (ever more than Hollywood), so if the Adult entertainment industry stays with HD-DVD and their fans follow then you can expect massive HD-DVD sales, unless the Adult entertainment industry goes all digital download before completely embracing an HD format or lingers on DVD for longer than Hollywood.

Only time will tell, though if you ask me I'd say that both formats are going to be obsolete in a couple of years as America's broadband speeds increase and HD movie downloads become an attractive alternative to HD format discs.

M$ sure love to change, kind of like screwing the old consumers. Stick to one Mikey thats why I got both for not one ps3 and one wannabe ps3.

Rhymic. Triple layer HD-DVD may be 51GB, but Triple layer BD is around 70-80GB. 4x BD is 100GB. Just as CD and DVD increased in layers, so will Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Blu-ray just had a head start with the fact that the trenches in the disc were closer together, which is why it can hold more and needs a different reader. Going with a format wont be about which is cheaper, but which has the majority of the movies. You get what you pay for.

Im not sure why people are so suprised... not a single one of these companies are anything but business (read money) driven. If consumers want Blu-Ray they'll get it, anyone with an ounce of brain power could have figured that out. 360 doesn't have a build-in drive so it can support *any* it likes without the cost of a built-in driving up costs. Even if another format comes out of nowhere and trumps them all, the 360 will simply have a new add-on for it. If HD-DVD wins out in the end the PS3 will simply have a HD-DVD player add-on released, because thats how these things work and Blu-Ray discs will end up being used just for the ps3's games and life will continue to roll on and games will continue to be released etc... I mean really people... duh. Far as games go this has no "direct" bearing. No matter what format 'wins' 360 games will use DVD9 and PS3 games will use Blu-Ray and thats it. Anyone who buys a game console for HD movies only is a tool, its simply a nice bonus if you get a console that plays HD content aswell ;) and anyone wanting the best from HD movies isn't going to use the 360 HDDVD player OR the PS3 Blu-Ray as a player... as they both kind of suck compared to real units.

I like how they say yeah we can do that and might, but then they come back and say but you should still get this even though it might not mean much for you later. Thanks M$ for screwing with us.

The big question for consumers is which one is better for them? Blu-ray has 50 Gb of storage space, 1080p resolution, multiple layers of security to deter piracy, and a player that costs anywhere from $400 to $1000, depending on whether or not it's only a blu-ray disc player or a blu-ray player that can play regular dvd's and cd's as well. HD-DVD holds around 35 Gb of space (toshiba just announced a new triple layer disk that holds 51 Gb), 1080p resolution, low level security when compared to blu-ray (means nothing to consumers), and a player that costs around $250 to $700 and every player plays all formats of discs. I think I'd go with HD-DVD myself. The adult entertainment industry is also going HD-DVD, which doesn't matter much to me, but Sony is actively trying to keep them away from Blu-Ray. Once again, the only reason why I see anyone wanting blu-ray to win is because they are sony fans. I'm looking at the whole picture. Cheaper and easier for the same quality is the route I would like to go.

surprised O_laggy_o ? That's microsoft, they don't care about consumers, you buy vista full upgrade in the store for close to 300 dollars and you get crap support from them after, buy an xbox and when they release a new one they don't support it anymore and after making a mistake with the high def format they going to make consumers pay for it. That's why they have so much cash......................

with warner backing blu ray and microsoft looking like they're going to back down I gotta say I'm happy blu-ray looks like the new HD format. Just by the numbers it's way better than HD-DVD. 100GB, 72 mb/s theoretical max for BD compared to 45GB, 36 mb/s theoretical max for hd-dvd is a no brainer. blu ray might be a little more expensive now, but price always drops and in this case it should be pretty fast. sony usually makes better products than the competition but never has support. the better format will actually win this time, RIP betamax. only worried bout my 360 not being able to fit games on a DVD9 soon. damn you bill gates!!

Can M$ stoop any lower?

"only format today that delivers quality experiances at an affordable price"?!?!? WTF, are they on crack? First off, lets define "quality". Now yes, HD DVD is good, but overall, you get what you pay for. Its the cheaper, less complete version of what next gen Hi-Def technology really is. You buy Blu Ray, you spend slightly more (a PS3 for AUS$699, thats a great deal for Blu Ray) but you get so much more. You get what you pay for.

Toshiba: You Traitor microsoft!!!!

theKSMM, the war may not be over however the writing is on the wall. Even if there were a $150 HD-DVD player currently only DreamWorks and Universal are supporting the format. Soon there won't be much to play on it. Again, because most people don't own hi def televisions that doesn't mean they never will. And with Hi Def televisions becoming cheaper and the digital switch coming in 2009, the next set you buy will most likely be a hi def unit.

"Until movies can actually make use of that extra space, I'll settle for a DVD up-converter." They do. You clearly have no idea what is involved with using this software and you likely don't care as it doesn't affect Nintendo in the slightest. A Movie in 1080p doesn't fit onto a normal DVD. With TV's and PC LCD's coming out with resolutions of 1080p and beyond, there is an increasing demand for HD content, that is why this new technology is so important. If you don't care then don't post here, but when you finally catch up to this new technology you are welcome to share your views on it.

The disc format war is far from won by either side. First, the market for HD products is still very small. The majority of consumers haven't weighed in on HDTV, much less a disc format. Secondly, we as gamers tend to overestimate the influence of the PS3 in the format war. For every PS3 with a Blu-ray drive sold, there are laptop PCs with HD-DVD drives sold, and those laptops have built in HD screens. Many PS3 owners are playing on standard TVs, so the appeal of Blu-ray is limited for them. As far as standalone sets go (a better indicator of success), HD-DVD seems to have a slight edge (mostly because of lower cost). But it's still such a small fraction of the total market as to be insignificant. The bottom line is that the first camp to produce a standalone player that costs less than $150 and a disc that costs the same as its DVD equivalent will win. And that will only become apparent after HDTV penetration reaches 50% or so. Until then, most of us are pretty content with DVDs. They still look pretty good, and they can be had for cheap.

GameOnBrain, most people still don't own hi def televisions yet. With hi def becoming the standard and with the coming digital switch in 2009, more than likely your next television is going to be a hi def set. And when people do buy their next set Blu Ray will already be the industry standard.

Here's what's really at stake for Microsoft; According to Business Week Microsoft developed the VC-1 Codec. It's primarily used for compressing data on a disc. Toshiba agreed to use it in the development of HD-DVD. The Blu Ray group at first adopted this codec as well but they wanted neutrality from Microsoft. When Microsoft got in bed with Intel and Toshiba by backing HD-DVD then to coin a phrase "all bets were off". In June of 2005 Sony and the Blu Ray group decided to use a Java based code for Blu Ray. Now think of it guys; if HD-DVD became the industry standard then Microsoft gets a piece of everyones action. HD-DVD burners, drives, players, manufacturing, sales.. the whole shabang-a-bang as Dave Chappelle would say. Now with Blu Ray dominating and looking like it's going to be the next hi def standard all that potential money is going down the drain. The Dreamworks deal was essentially a "hail mary" bomb to try and save HD-DVD. But it appears that hasn't worked. That's what's really at stake here guys. You can look it up if you here if you want. << LINK REMOVED >>

"more than three times the capacity and basically a picture which is four times larger than the previous wave of DVD's is a pretty significant leap." Until movies can actually make use of that extra space, I'll settle for a DVD up-converter. And if you seriously think that the transition from VHS to DVD is as huge as DVD to HD-DVD, then why hasn't the new format exploded into the mainstream like DVD? Becasue the average consumer doesn't see the need. That's why.

I agree with JSharpe completely. It's only right to offer both if you see consumers moving away from one.

I'm over this debate. The formats are almost identical in performance. The only reason one is doing better than the other is the support that the companies secured from studios. I even own the HD add on for my 360, but could care less if the format dies. Its not like I use it for games right now anyway, and I'm sure that by the time Blu-Ray breaks away from HD, downloadable movies will have gained such a following that disks will be on their way out no matter what format they are.

I still say that if MS would have backed HD-DVD as a gaming format, it would of set them back financially, but then might of completely crushed BRD, and the PS3 all together. Or maybe it would of bankrupt the gaming division. Who knows. All I know is, BRD is winning by a long shot, and Microsoft is just dragging this out as long as they can make some money from it, then by that point they'll have the Video Store in the best shape they can make it. But I still think that BRD buying/renting will outright dominate over digital distribution/renting since people prefer having a hard copy.

tommyxx516 - "More space capacity on a disc does not make it better. " That is why CD's dominated DVD's. Your IQ did drop.

It would show that Microsoft doesn't stick with something for too long if it jumps boat and switches to blu-ray.

I feel like my IQ just dropped after reading some of these useless posts. Microsoft does not lose out on anything. They did not make the HD-DVD technology, they only offered it. More space capacity on a disc does not make it better. We pop in a disc to play a game worth our money, not sit there and brag about how much space it takes up. I have both the xbox360 hd-dvd and the ps3. For the past year, the 360 has been my primary console, the ps3 my primary movie player, and the wii collecting dust.

i dont see why MS is making such a big deal there games are still on DVDs not HDDVD or BDDVDs so they really dont need either all there ad on does is play the movie format

Ok here is what is gonna happen. M$ is gonna pay off all major Computer Makers (Dell, HP, etc) except Apple, to only carry HD-DVD Drives in their systems. Leaving only the PS3 and Apple computers to carry Blue-Ray. Yes this is only Speculative.....and probley wont happen but still it would be funny and ...oh what was that .. I just saw a Pink Pig fly by my window!!!

JSharpe, personally after reading their comments I think they're going to go down with the proverbial ship. They won't do it unless they really have no other choice and if they do, they'll make the switch half heartedly with their tails between their legs.

As much as I hate both formats in this war, I gotta say that if Blu-ray has the clear advantage and Microsoft is willing to make the Blu-ray switchover, they should just do it.

if you don't care about this news than don't post and consume space suitable for more valuable opinions.. nuff said

"don't care about the new wave of DVDs because the leap in technology isn't as significant. " more than three times the capacity and basically a picture which is four times larger than the previous wave of DVD's is a pretty significant leap. Good post MJ-X. As for the whole "BD is not needed due to compression" argument. That is stupid and flawed. You cannot keep compressing data to get smaller and smaller. If compression is still efficient even with 70% compression then that means that a game could be around 100 GB for a Blu-ray. Blu-ray was future proof and DVD wasn't. 360 would have been so much better off with games on BD or HD-DVD but they will just have to make do with DVD.

Look Microsoft, I know that admitting defeat is a terrible thing to do, especially when you are the largest software manufacture in the world. But I think it's time you throw up the white flag, and end this pointless war once and for all. I like many other consumers, was optimistic enough to purchase your HD-DVD add on unit. And while I think the hardware is great, you have to admit that the content lineup for the hardware is far from spectacular. Do the smart thing; make an add on blu ray player, make it affordable, and let the "consumers have a voice." and a choice. It's okay to have a little faith, but when the product that you are backing is having the life sucked out of it by an obviously larger media, it's time to wave your goodbyes and let go.

I, like many people, don't care about the new wave of DVDs because the leap in technology isn't as significant. Of course the leap from VHS to DVD was a no brainer of an improvement going from analog to digital. Am I going to re-purchase all of my DVD's in HD format, and buy a ridiculously priced player and discs for 600 more pixels of resolution? I think not.