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Sexism isn't keeping women out of industry, says EA exec

Executive vice president Gabrielle Toledano says it's "easy to blame men," but that's not the real problem.

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Electronic Arts executive vice president and chief talent officer Gabrielle Toledano has sounded off on sexism in the gaming industry. In an editorial at Forbes, Toledano said when it comes to sexism, there is a "big disconnect between perception and reality," noting it's not men who keep women out of the business.

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"It’s easy to blame men for not creating an attractive work environment," Toledano said. "But I think that’s a cop-out. If we want more women to work in games, we have to recognize that the problem isn’t sexism."

Toledano said she does not take issues around sexism or harassment lightly. In fact, as the head of human resources at EA, she said she enforces a "very strict code of conduct" and leads regular employee training initiatives to ensure a safe environment for all.

Her biggest issue is that the game industry is perceived as more sexist than other male-dominated workplaces, when in fact this may not be the case. At the same time, she acknowledged EA employs far more men than women, and this is an "issue to fix."

"Rather than blame the majority just because they are the majority, I believe the solution starts with us: women," she said.

Toledano laid out three "dirty little secrets" about women in the game industry, the first of which is that many women play games. "Nearly half of all gamers are female and yet I still continue to hear on a weekly basis that 'the only people playing games are boys in their basements.' It’s just not true. So if you like to play games, wouldn’t it be fun to make them?"

The second "secret" Toledano spoke of is that the industry wants to hire more women. She said a company cannot be successful if a team "looks and acts and thinks the same." She said embracing a more diverse culture is not simply a "feel-good message," but rather it is a requirement to continue making successful games.

The third and final "secret" Toledano said is that there are not enough women to hire, especially in the engineering department, at least not yet. She said to change this, support is needed for educational institutions that encourage women to pursue STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) careers.

"The longevity of our industry and the infusion of new and diverse ideas that appeal to all consumers depend on getting more women into engineering, math, design, and other STEM-related disciplines," she said.

Toledano ended her note acknowledging sexism is a reality of the modern day workforce. However, this should not keep women from entering the industry, she said.

"Sexism is an unfortunate reality of our times, but as women we must seek the power and ability in ourselves to change the dynamic. Cast aside the preconceptions, and look for the opportunities and places to make an impact. And I can tell you firsthand that in the video game industry women are not just welcome, we are necessary and we are equal."

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Avatar image for LoG-Sacrament
LoG-Sacrament

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I'm sure it's not as simple as either men in the video games industry being a bunch of sexist pigs or there is no sexism at all, but I don't think the problem is simply women not being interested in careers in gaming if they truly do make up half of gamers.

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MordeaniisChaos

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@LoG-Sacrament The article made it clear that she didn't say that there wasn't sexism in the industry, but that it's in women's hands to change it.

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Lord_Python1049

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Edited By Lord_Python1049

@MordeaniisChaos @LoG-Sacrament Asking people to defy conventions is hard. That's why so many girls worry about being skinny, but do we ask them to defy those body images? It starts with everyone I think, especially those in the gaming industry to break down the stereotypes and social stigmas so that women can feel more comfortable joining the industry. Women also should seroiusl consider such careers but it would be difficult if people keep referring to video games as a male hobby.

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tightwad34

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Good to hear sexism isn't the problem, but she is spouting some shit nonetheless. She said a development team needs females because if they were all male they would look, act and think the same? WTF is that. That is labeling right there, if not even a bit sexist.(Although it does make sense in general terms) She does have some good points though. Anyway as video games grow in popularity, there will be more women in the industry. Personally, I don't care who or what games are made by as long as they continue to entertain.

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Lord_Python1049

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Edited By Lord_Python1049

@tightwad34 Women do offer a different perspective and create a different environment to work in, that's been scientifically proven. Having spent high school in an all boys school let me tell you the difference is very real, and throughout history wherever women are given a greater role, a better education and equality, the economy improves. This is a fact known to nearly all political scientists, that;s why women's rights are so important for a prosperous country.

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Jestersmiles

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Edited By Jestersmiles

@tengen23 Damn it that 20 minutes of my life I never going to get back.

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cornbread444

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Toledano faces the potential backlash of her "feminist" peers by stating her views. She has bigger balls than a lot of guys I know. Right on, girl.

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CageFury

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Edited By CageFury

"The third and final "secret" Toledano said is that there are not enough women to hire, especially in the engineering department, at least not yet. " "Sexism is an unfortunate reality of our times, but as women we must seek the power and ability in ourselves to change the dynamic."

So glad to hear this coming from a female exec in the industry. While sexism may be an issue, it's clearly not the main reason men are the majority.

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Mersinary_Myth

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im so happy that Toledano spoke her mind on this subject, sexism will alway be around like racism but you should never let that stop you. Move forward and don't make excuses. Now lets see the backlash from this, if any.

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DarthLod

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Ahh, you got to love the far left mindwash at work.

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CageFury

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@DarthLod Ahh, you got to the love the far right blaming the far left for everything.

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Alkpaz

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Take a course in education or nursing and you will see mostly women. Take a class in computer science or engineering and you will find mostly men.

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Jedilink109

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Edited By Jedilink109

How are men a "majority" when there are two sexes and they're only HALF of society?

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CageFury

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@Jedilink109 They're the majority in the industry not life.. duh. Also, FYI, there are more women on the planet then men.

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imapyro9944

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@CageFury @Jedilink109 actually its the other way around; there are more men than women on earth

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Hate_Squad

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@imapyro9944 @CageFury @Jedilink109 no,its more women

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PlasmaBeam44

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@imapyro9944 @CageFury @Jedilink109 Actually, you're both wrong. There are far more animals than men and women on earth.

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bluefox755

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I love this woman, she just drove a wedge into all this BS entitlement whining that has been going on lately. Work hard, and DON'T blame others for your shortcomings??? What a crazy thought, so crazy it just might work :) Unfortunately she's treading dangerous political ground, fem groups will not take kindly to these comments I'm afraid. Kudos to her though.

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TheHappyDrunk

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Does anyone know of any extremely successful STEM (or even a particular sub-field) outreach programs for females. I'd love to find out what makes them successful and see how to apply that to my own university. It's unfortunate that the STEM colleges here have such a gender gap despite the number of qualified students in other departments.

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Spokker

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Edited By Spokker

@icecreamo Also, stereotypes exist and are based in truth. Even this article is a stereotype as the average HR representative is a middle-aged white woman. 82% of HR generalists are female. Maybe we should be talking about why I can't get an HR job... eh?


In other words, the department that decides whether you get to keep your job because of the joke you made at work is composed almost entirely of women. Talk about bias!

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Spokker

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Edited By Spokker

@icecreamo What about the plethora of games in which you create your own character, right down to gender and skin color?

Modern games do track what players do within the games. I would love to see statistics on the kinds of characters players are creating.

But when you do have games that are held up as "good" games in terms of gender, no one buys it (Beyond Good & Evil).

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kid23455

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Edited By kid23455

Not this shit again.


Incoming firestorm of uneducated whiny morons bickering about shit that doesn't fucking matter.

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Shantmaster_K

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Edited By Shantmaster_K

Just because there are more men than women in a certain industry does not make it sexist. Gender, race, religion, sexual orientation shouldn't even be a problem. Hire people because they are well qualified and have great work ethic.

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dvanaken89

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Rights? Diversity? Women can vote now? And drive!? What happened to making sandwiches?

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ItchyIsVegeta

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People get hired for jobs based on their qualifications. It is that simple. This is the 21st century. No matter what your gender, ethnic background, etc.... If you want to get hired for that job, make it so your qualifications will make you valuable.

In today's corporate reality, an exact equally qualified woman has a better chance of being hired, than an equally qualified man (unless the guy hiring is a complete tool). The reason for this is because of diversity. By being a woman, you have different life experiences, different perspectives, and different ideas, therefore bringing something different to the table. This is the positive side of diversity, that makes me laugh at all these discrimination articles.

Also, for some reason, a more qualified woman doesn't get hired when she should, it is that companies loss, and another companies gain. Then whatever company that woman does get hired, will be in a better position to compete against the company that didn't hire her.

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Motroucet

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@ItchyIsVegeta
Qualifications are overrated...

Knowledge and experience is where it's at. Too bad prospective employers don't feel the same way I do.

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hemoleech

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As a female gamer that is interested in game development, I hope one day I can be that person who lays out terrain for game worlds.

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abdoalwaer

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@hemoleech well if you've got the right qualifications then why not ? go ahead and do it , no body is gonna stop you .

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LtReviews

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Edited By LtReviews

@hemoleech Companies like level designers that aren't just good at designing worlds, but have at least some understanding of how things are optimized.

That way there isn't the disconnect between the designer handing over level ideas to the programmers, that the programmers must hand back because it isn't doable given the engine's limitations.

Try giving Hammer a shot (valve's free world creator for the source engine) and read up on creating and optimizing levels with areaportals, func_details, hint brushes and visleaves.

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Spokker

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@hemoleech Why don't you send in your resume? http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielletoledano


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TheHappyDrunk

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Edited By TheHappyDrunk

@Spokker @hemoleech I would imagine that she does not have the required education or training as of yet. This is probably why she identifies as a gamer instead of as a programmer, designer, artist, or other industry-related field.

@hemoleech: That being said, if this is an industry you wish to work for in the future, make sure you start researching the required skill sets for the position you want (if you have not already done so). Try and hone those skills now so that you can already have a portfolio when it comes time to go job hunting.

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Spokker

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@TheHappyDrunk She could contact her, tell her she read the article and that she is looking for advice on how to break into the game industry in the future.

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LtReviews

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Edited By LtReviews

Before we can even start to talk about the gender imbalance in the industry- gender imbalance in education for the industry needs to be adressed.

You can't have an applicant pool of experienced programmers with education in software creation that is 80 percent men and 20 percent women, and expect that to change when the industry starts hiring them.

I got into the industry by being self-taught. I decided to not go to a computer-science college because I didn't want to be in a college with all dudes, I need to be able to chill with girls or I'd go crazy and single for years. Some CompSci schools are around 70 percent dudes...

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TheHappyDrunk

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@LtReviews Some C.S departments may have a large gender bias. However, most universities as a whole do not (and are, in fact, predominately female with a 60-40 split). If you go to a decent state university, you should have no problem finding a lot of women to hang out with. There is no rule saying you cant socialize outside of your department.


I understand that you are past this point in your career, but your comments seemed somewhat disingenuous in that regards (at least from my perspective).

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LtReviews

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@TheHappyDrunk @LtReviews

The problem isn't not enough women in universities as a whole- but in the computer science field the balance is around 80 percent men to 20 percent women.

And alot of major tech universities such as RPI, Drexel, and RIT have around 30-70 split.

As for predominately female colleges, it should be less of a surprise to see around 60-40, because there are more females in the United States going to college on average in the first place.

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TheHappyDrunk

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@LtReviews @TheHappyDrunk I can definitely agree woth your point, then. Frankly, I don't see much more room to expand the industry until it can expand the target demographic of most games. We can't do that until we have more perspectives in the personnel creating these titles. I think we generally agree on this point. I just misread your original post.

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Spokker

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@LtReviews "gender imbalance in education for the industry needs to be adressed."

It has been addressed and despite the effort the proportion of women in computer science and networking programs has actually decreased over the years. I think you would be hard pressed to find many departments that are making a willful decision not to admit female applicants. Schools are bending over backwards to stamp out any incidents of sexism or harassment.

Here's one such program of many: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~nelson/csoutreach/

The stated objective is to increase the amount of women in computer science programs. I found this program by searching "computer science outreach women." I changed computer science to psychology, however, and found no such programs. What I did find was a site designed to stop men from raping so much.

I tried better searches and finally did find a program that does outreach to get more men into psychology, but even they admitted that women have a greater affinity for people-orientated careers.

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LtReviews

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@Spokker @LtReviews Nowhere did I blame CS departments for having a gender bias, or not willfully going out of their way to get more women. I mentioned computer science had a big gender gap, but I'm not sure where you got that I said it was there fault. I'm pointing out a reality, and saying "that sucks"


For the same reason it isn't the industries fault, it isn't the fault of the field of study.

Problems develop before the students even get to college that creates the notion that it is a field for men.

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Krauklis

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@LtReviews Well if the school has not gender rules set in place all of them are like that, although most of them are big enough to have at least 20-40 girls in a class so you should be able to find girlfriends.

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hemoleech

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Edited By hemoleech

@Mr_BillGates Pick me then, I hate wearing make-up!

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hemoleech

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A big problem is that not enough women are pursuing in game development. Maybe they just aren't interested, I don't know.

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Jake518

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@hemoleech I agree with your statement but I'm going go further and say it's the current generation of women who are not interested in pursuing careers in game development.

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TheHappyDrunk

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Edited By TheHappyDrunk

@hemoleech That's a distinct possibility. However, when the majority of games are designed for the 18-35(ish) male demographic, this should come as no surprise. Per societal gender roles in the U.S., men are supposed to be highly aggressive and (to a lesser extent) express an interest in sports. It is no coincidence, then, that a large number of AAA titles play into one of these two roles. Also, due to the lack of gender diversity in the industry, a large percentage of female characters are presented in egregiously stereotypical fashions (i.e. highly sexualized, subservient, "damsel in distress", etc).


There are numerous exceptions to these examples. However, it would be ridiculous to expect more women to WANT to be involved in game development until there are more games that target either a female or gender-neutral demographic. Just because a decent percentage of women don't mind playing Halo 4, DMC, or other male-targeted game does not mean they would want to be responsible for actually MAKING such games. Continuing the current female outreach programs of many STEM programs will also help in the long term.

Unfortunately, this is a Catch-22. The industry needs more females involved in game development in order to better attract female audiences. At the same time, AAA games need to be more appealing to females before more women will want to work in the industry. It's a rather persistent chicken and egg problem.


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AndrewII

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Edited By AndrewII

I'll make this short, but its only the people that believe in the very flawed that people are equal e.g. marxism are the ones that believe in such things sexism. for record, I'm a libertarian.

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MrHatnClogs

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That's why I have strippers and penthouse girls in my Saints Row 3 backup, to promote women in a working environment.

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TheHappyDrunk

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Edited By TheHappyDrunk

@bahamut_au Nah. They're more of the industry's McDonald's. Get it out as quickly and cheaply (for them) as possible, but pay your workers at least minimum wage. Screw quality.

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Spokker

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Another person who has discounted the sexism explanation for the lack of women in video games is the legendary Roberta Williams. In an interview with Adventure Classic Gaming she said, "I really think that the idea that women are somehow 'punished' or 'resented' in the computer industry is overblown. I never experienced any resentments or maltreatment by anybody in the computer industry about my gender. Never. In fact, it was the opposite; I always felt that the 'men' in the computer industry were happy to have me around. I never felt that it was a gender thing."

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