85 year old woman with gun makes home intruder call the cops on himself..

With guns, I'm being reasonable. ;) If you want it that way, do I have the right to own a nuke? I'm not going to kill anyone. I just... want it.SolidSnake35

No, because even just leaving it there is hazardous to people's health in a significant area, unlike a gun, which is only dangerous when used.

[QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="Shrapnel99"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"] You just can't comprehend since you come from britain.alexmurray

Why do you think the OJ Simpson thing where he went with guys into the hotel to get his stuff back was such a big deal? It wouldn't have been if guns weren't involved. The_Mac_Daddy

Gun crime isn't a problem in all of the U.S. :?

but alot of shootings including viginia tech could have been prevented if guns where banned

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth it

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="Shrapnel99"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"] You just can't comprehend since you come from britain.The_Mac_Daddy

Why do you think the OJ Simpson thing where he went with guys into the hotel to get his stuff back was such a big deal? It wouldn't have been if guns weren't involved. The_Mac_Daddy

Gun crime isn't a problem in all of the U.S. :?

but alot of shootings including viginia tech could have been prevented if guns where banned

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth it

oh reary?

The Erfurt massacre is the worst school shooting in Europe since a gunman killed 16 children and their teacher in Scotland in 1996.

banning guns wont prevent every shooting but it decreases them and that means its working

Grand Theft Granny? :lol:

[QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="Shrapnel99"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"] You just can't comprehend since you come from britain.alexmurray

Why do you think the OJ Simpson thing where he went with guys into the hotel to get his stuff back was such a big deal? It wouldn't have been if guns weren't involved. The_Mac_Daddy

Gun crime isn't a problem in all of the U.S. :?

but alot of shootings including viginia tech could have been prevented if guns where banned

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth it

O reary?

The Erfurt massacre is the worst school shooting in Europe since a gunman killed 16 children and their teacher in Scotland in 1996.

Not to mention, Germany has strict gun laws..

Germany, November 1999: A 15-year-old student in Meissen, eastern Germany, stabbed his teacher to death after taking bets from classmates he would dare commit the crime.

He was later jailed for seven years.

Germany, March 2000: A 16-year-old pupil at a private boarding school in the Bavarian town of Branneburg, shot a 57-year-old teacher, who later died from injuries.

The teenager - who also shot himself - was facing expulsion from school after failing a cannabis test.

Germany, February 2002: A former pupil killed his headmaster and set off pipe bombs in the technical school he had recently been expelled from in Freising near Munich.

The man also shot dead his boss and a foreman at the company he worked for before turning the gun on himself. Another teacher was shot in the face, but survived.

Germany, April 2002: Seventeen people killed after a gunman - a former pupil - opens fire in a school in Erfurt, eastern Germany. He then turned the gun on himself.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.The_Mac_Daddy

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

banning guns wont prevent every shooting but it decreases them and that means its working

alexmurray

Correlation =/= causation.

Some countries have very loose gun laws, and shootings like that occur even less frequently.

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth italexmurray

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth itSolidSnake35

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="Shrapnel99"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"] You just can't comprehend since you come from britain.needled24-7

Why do you think the OJ Simpson thing where he went with guys into the hotel to get his stuff back was such a big deal? It wouldn't have been if guns weren't involved. The_Mac_Daddy

Gun crime isn't a problem in all of the U.S. :?

but alot of shootings including viginia tech could have been prevented if guns where banned

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth it

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.jointed

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

"The figures also record a 4% rise in gun crime, with incidents involving firearms rising by 373 to 9,967 last year."

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]

I figured that's what this thread was about though, what with the old lady protecting herself and all...SolidSnake35

Definitely helps.

Criminals will get ahold of guns if they are legal or not. Once guns where banned from Australia, gun crime went up 300%. Also, don't try to kid yourself into thinking humans civilized people. Saying "I don't need a gun because I live in a civilized society" is just trying to make yourself feel safe. Also, what happens if somebody decides to invade your country? The general populace is ******.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.SolidSnake35

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.Shrapnel99

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

"The figures also record a 4% rise in gun crime, with incidents involving firearms rising by 373 to 9,967 last year."

Exactly. And I advice him to look at the recorded murders too.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="alexmurray"]well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth itneedled24-7

when people shoot a gun they pull the trigger, most of the time in auto collisions its a accident

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] With guns, I'm being reasonable. ;) If you want it that way, do I have the right to own a nuke? I'm not going to kill anyone. I just... want it.The_Ish

No, because even just leaving it there is hazardous to people's health in a significant area, unlike a gun, which is only dangerous when used.

well in the UK Ive never heard of a school shooting taking place, and guns are banned. I believe that if you can stop one shooting from banning guns, then banning guns is worth it

alexmurray

Being British you would know that in the late 90's after the handgun ban there was a large spike in guncrime across the island.

You would also know that banning guns has not done anything in Australia, England, Japan and so on to lower the crime rates because guns are not the reason crimes are committed.

These stats may be be from 2000, but they expose the fallacy of no guns = less crime.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.jointed

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

Oh reary?

Gun crime soars by 35% is the first story that came up in google. Type in uk gun crime on the rise. And you will see literally hundreds of stories pop up. Stop kidding yourself.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.mrbojangles25

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.The_Mac_Daddy

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

Oh reary?

Gun crime soars by 35% is the first story that came up in google. Type in uk gun crime on the rise. And you will see literally hundreds of stories pop up. Stop kidding yourself.

I suggest that you actually read the articles you're googling :lol: The one you're talking about is from 2003.

Yeah, but it's my right to own one... SolidSnake35

Not if it can hurt others without being used. Unlike guns. Or even knives.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.SolidSnake35

lol that totally sounds like my great grandma. tough little old ladie she isFUBAR24

Criminals will get ahold of guns if they are legal or not. Once guns where banned from Australia, gun crime went up 300%. Also, don't try to kid yourself into thinking humans civilized people. Saying "I don't need a gun because I live in a civilized society" is just trying to make yourself feel safe. Also, what happens if somebody decides to invade your country? The general populace is ******. seals44

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.needled24-7

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.jointed

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

Oh reary?

Gun crime soars by 35% is the first story that came up in google. Type in uk gun crime on the rise. And you will see literally hundreds of stories pop up. Stop kidding yourself.

I suggest that you actually read the articles you're googling :lol: The one you're talking about is from 2003.

How about "black gun crime on the rise" from august 16, 2008. Is that good enough for you?

http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/08/black-gun-crime-on-the-rise/

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.SolidSnake35

I agree, and its a poor argument yet gun nuts use it because they think it is an absolute and argument-ender. I dont like it as a reason, and even though "its our right to buy a gun" is the last thing on a person's mind, they always bring it up to defend themselves.

With that said, why do you people tell us we need to ban guns? Is stricter and revised gun control not enough?

Exactly. And I advice him to look at the recorded murders too.

jointed

But what are your trying to prove?

Yes, gun crime is now falling back down to what it used to be before the ban. Great, but what did the ban do then? Nothing! Just like it did nothing in Washington D.C.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] Yeah, but it's my right to own one... The_Ish

Not if it can hurt others without being used. Unlike guns. Or even knives.

[QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.SolidSnake35

banning guns wont solve the murder rate in america. since most murders are drug related, if you legalize drugs you take away the reason to kill in the first place and people still have their right to own guns.

the government makes this mess, not guns.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

Exactly. And I advice him to look at the recorded murders too.

limpbizkit818

But what are your trying to prove?

Yes, gun crime is now falling back down to what it used to be before the ban. Great, but what did the ban do then? Nothing! Just like it did nothing in Washington D.C.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]God you are thick skulled. I'm not talking about protecting yourself. Hunting is a BIG thing in the Southern USA. That's what I'm talking about people from britian can't comprehend. God why can't you get it through your thick skull that there is more to guns than using for protection.The_Mac_Daddy

Don't act like your country is all holier than thou. Gun crime is rising fast in britain. Y'all are starting to get a gun problem, too. But, maybe y'all just need a better hobby.. you know, like cricket or something.

A gun problem? Not really...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/ukcrime.police

Oh reary?

Gun crime soars by 35% is the first story that came up in google. Type in uk gun crime on the rise. And you will see literally hundreds of stories pop up. Stop kidding yourself.

I suggest that you actually read the articles you're googling :lol: The one you're talking about is from 2003.

How about "black gun crime on the rise" from august 16, 2008. Is that good enough for you?

http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/08/black-gun-crime-on-the-rise/

Oh geez...and now you're posting BNP links :lol:

However, the rise of gun crime wasn't even what I was arguing against. You said that Britain has a "gun problem", which we don't. The gun crime rates are bound to rise sooner or later when they're that small to begin with ;)

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] Yeah, but it's my right to own one... SolidSnake35

Not if it can hurt others without being used. Unlike guns. Or even knives.

How about "black gun crime on the rise" from august 16, 2008. Is that good enough for you?http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/08/black-gun-crime-on-the-rise/ The_Mac_Daddy

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="jointed"]

Exactly. And I advice him to look at the recorded murders too.

SolidSnake35

But what are your trying to prove?

Yes, gun crime is now falling back down to what it used to be before the ban. Great, but what did the ban do then? Nothing! Just like it did nothing in Washington D.C.

You lost me with that one.

If you are trying to mock people who say they need guns for defense well, if the government acutely tried to do something about the crime rate instead of just throwing money at it then there wouldn't be a bunch of people crying and trying to ban guns now would there?

It's my right to hurt others. SolidSnake35

Wrong again... it's your right to defend yourself. That might mean hurting your attacker, but you don't have the right to use a nuke, since it's 100% garunteed to kill people not involved.

Unlike guns. Or knives.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.mrbojangles25

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

Owning a gun isn't 'right,' but it isn't 'wrong' either. Eating a cheesburger from McDonalds isn't 'right,' should that be banned?needled24-7

Oh geez...and now you're posting BNP links :lol:

However, the rise of gun crime wasn't even what I was arguing against. You said that Britain has a "gun problem", which we don't. The gun crime rates are bound to rise sooner or later when they're that small to begin with ;)

jointed

I still don't see your point.

So you're saying gun crime, no matter if the weapons were illegal or not, was bound to rise? Then why ban them..................

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] It's my right to hurt others. The_Ish

Wrong again... it's your right to defendyourself. That might mean hurting your attacker, but you don't have the right to use a nuke, since it's 100% garunteed to kill people not involved.

Unlike guns. Or knives.

What and you think a attacker would happy when you pull out a gun, it would just make him more enraged

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Owning a gun isn't 'right,' but it isn't 'wrong' either. Eating a cheesburger from McDonalds isn't 'right,' should that be banned?SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] It's my right to hurt others. The_Ish

Wrong again... it's your right to defend yourself. That might mean hurting your attacker, but you don't have the right to use a nuke, since it's 100% garunteed to kill people not involved.

Unlike guns. Or knives.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

That's pretty much how we beat the british.. gun carrying vigilantes, right? Served us well back then.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] It's my right to hurt others. alexmurray

Wrong again... it's your right to defendyourself. That might mean hurting your attacker, but you don't have the right to use a nuke, since it's 100% garunteed to kill people not involved.

Unlike guns. Or knives.

What and you think a attacker would happy when you pull out a gun, it would just make him more enraged

I own 10 guns.

Shots fired(non shooting range): 0

People killed: 0

Violent situations diffused: 4

So far, guns have been a real help to my family, no ones been hurt. How do my guns kill people?

I can kill someone just as easily with my fists or a knife. Just walk up to a cop and stab him in the throat. With a gun its much more loud and noticable. Im likley to be put down my a cop or a citizen.