85 year old woman with gun makes home intruder call the cops on himself..

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]Owning a gun isn't 'right,' but it isn't 'wrong' either. Eating a cheesburger from McDonalds isn't 'right,' should that be banned?needled24-7

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

i say they do deserve the right. people are inheritantly good. so if you strengthen good people against bad ones, the good ones win.

the funny thing is, your argument was so easily refuted because you didnt really provide one.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

Oh geez...and now you're posting BNP links :lol:

However, the rise of gun crime wasn't even what I was arguing against. You said that Britain has a "gun problem", which we don't. The gun crime rates are bound to rise sooner or later when they're that small to begin with ;)

limpbizkit818

I still don't see your point.

So you're saying gun crime, no matter if the weapons were illegal or not, was bound to rise? Then why ban them..................

What you fail to understand is that I'm not talkig about the gun ban...I'm talking about the fictitious "gun problem" Mac_daddy is rambling about.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.The_Mac_Daddy

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

That's pretty much how we beat the british.. gun carrying vigilantes, right? Served us well back then.

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

What and you think a attacker would happy when you pull out a gun, it would just make him more enraged

alexmurray

LMAO

Did you think these people who use guns for their crimes are so brave that they would be enraged rather than scared ****less because now their victims are on an equal level?

no the American revolution was won because of the french aidalexmurray

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] It's my right to hurt others. SolidSnake35

Wrong again... it's your right to defend yourself. That might mean hurting your attacker, but you don't have the right to use a nuke, since it's 100% garunteed to kill people not involved.

Unlike guns. Or knives.

the morality of individual rights does though.

you have a right to do whatever you want as long as you dont harm others. if someone harms you, you can defend yourself.

simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.

and nobody responded to what i said about drugs and the murder rate. so i guess ill just assume im right.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="Shrapnel99"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]You can think what you want, my british friend. Here in the USA, we have the right to bear arms. It's something that was decided after the United States was sick of british law and sent the british running home with their tails between their legs.alexmurray

Just because someone owns a gun, doesn't mean it's for protection...

so whats the point then.....

hunting? shooting as a hobby? collecting?

I still dont see the point

I mean some people might enjoy walking into the woods and shooting an animal for no reason and collecting guns if they have no use

Honestly I don't disagree with the right to bear arms, I just don't see the necessity to have hundreds of firearms when 1 or 2 should suffice.kayn83

Some people in this thread are so ignorant.

Collecting guns = no use, yea just like collecting cards, or collecting shells or something has a use.

Hunting = no reason. Maybe we aren't vegitarians, maybe hunters have an important position as they control the population? Maybe we like deer. Maybe some families need to hunt for food.

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

alexmurray

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.H8sMikeMoore

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

i say they do deserve the right. people are inheritantly good. so if you strengthen good people against bad ones, the good ones win.

the funny thing is, your argument was so easily refuted because you didnt really provide one.

again no mater how good people are, guns should be banned. guns shouldn't protect people the police should

simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.H8sMikeMoore

[QUOTE="needled24-7"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]Owning a gun isn't 'right,' but it isn't 'wrong' either. Eating a cheesburger from McDonalds isn't 'right,' should that be banned?SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

That's pretty much how we beat the british.. gun carrying vigilantes, right? Served us well back then.

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

actually it was because the british still used formations and the americans didnt.

the french definitely helped but you really ought to get over your self. stop trying to minimize the success of america.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

That's pretty much how we beat the british.. gun carrying vigilantes, right? Served us well back then.

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

The French didn't get involved until it was clear who had the upper hand, which happened to be the Americans right after the Battle of Saratoga.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.SolidSnake35

Hunting?

Ignorance.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

The_Ish

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

Im not kidding myself. The british would have won if the french of equal strengh hadn't joined the war

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

alexmurray

Yes, this is a "civilized" society that can operate just fine with guns because most people can control themselves. Are you saying that outlaws deserve guns more than me? More then the people living in this "civlized" soicety as you like to call it? Wouldn't we be able to cope with them better?

Why should the majroty have to suffer because of the minorty that commits crimes with guns? Because your government has told you so?

I don't buy guns to be a vigilante.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.SolidSnake35

defense.

So, are you done?

But if the law said I could hurt others? Would you be fine with it then? The point I'm making is that the law is not evidence enough to defend something - something such as the ownership of guns.SolidSnake35

That would be fine if the law said murder or robbery is okay. It doesn't. In this case, the law is absolutely right. People have the right to own guns, so as long as they don't plan on harming others with it unless out of self defense.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

The_Ish

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

French aid was critical...there no beating around the bush here.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.H8sMikeMoore

defense.

So, are you done?

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.H8sMikeMoore

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

That's pretty much how we beat the british.. gun carrying vigilantes, right? Served us well back then.

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

actually it was because the british still used formations and the americans didnt.

the french definitely helped but you really ought to get over your self. stop trying to minimize the success of america.

Im not I wouldn't have said anything if it hadn't been brought up twice for no reason

Im not kidding myself. The british would have won if the french of equal strengh hadn't joined the war

alexmurray

Yes, you are. The American won enough major battles by that point to make sure that they would win against the Redcoats. French aid was important, but it wasn't what tipped the scaled.

I clearly see you have a problem with the US, not just the issue of gun control.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.lettuceman44

Hunting?

Ignorance.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

Im not kidding myself. The british would have won if the french of equal strengh hadn't joined the war

The_Ish

Yes, you are. The American won enough major battles by that point to make sure that they would win against the Redcoats. French aid was important, but it wasn't what tipped the scaled.

I clearly see you have a problem with the US, not just the issue of gun control.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

alexmurray

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

Im not kidding myself. The british would have won if the french of equal strengh hadn't joined the war

although thats a bunch of crap, the british would not have had the success america did anyway. but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

jointed

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

French aid was critical...there no beating around the bush here.

So was the availability of guns.

He's saying like it's the sole reason we won.

the morality of individual rights does though.

you have a right to do whatever you want as long as you dont harm others. if someone harms you, you can defend yourself.

simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.

and nobody responded to what i said about drugs and the murder rate. so i guess ill just assume im right.

H8sMikeMoore

You are, although I would substitute drugs with gangs.

Same thing I know, but I still would.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

Im not kidding myself. The british would have won if the french of equal strengh hadn't joined the war

The_Ish

Yes, you are. The American won enough major battles by that point to make sure that they would win against the Redcoats. French aid was important, but it wasn't what tipped the scaled.

I clearly see you have a problem with the US, not just the issue of gun control.

I had nothing against America, and still dont but I dont see why it was necessary to bring it up twice for no reason

again: most murders in the states are a result of drug laws. legalize drugs and youll see a decrease in murder rates.

i know though that most people are only interested in forcing their ideas onto others, so im sure youll say "BU BUT GUNS R BADDDDDDDDDDDD"

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

The_Ish

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

French aid was critical...there no beating around the bush here.

So was the availability of guns.

He's saying like it's the sole reason we won.

Yeah you're right, I'm not denying that. I've just heard too many yanks (and Brits for that matter) downplay the French war effort...I mean, their whole economy was completely in tatters after the war.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="alexmurray"]

no the American revolution was won because of the french aid

The_Ish

It was for a multitude of reasons, most of which had to do with the availability of guns. Don't kid yourself.

French aid was critical...there no beating around the bush here.

So was the availability of guns.

He's saying like it's the sole reason we won.

Yes it was, the British army would have defeated the rebellion if it hadn't have been the french aid

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.SolidSnake35

Hunting?

Ignorance.

So? I know people who put it on a display case and thats it. What problem you got with that?

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]simply owning a gun does not harm someone. so no, theres nothing wrong with it.H8sMikeMoore

defense.

So, are you done?

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm guessing we're trying to tackle the use of knives, and not tell everyone to run to the store and buy the largest butcher knife they can find.alexmurray

Why not ban knives? It seems more logical. Even fruit knives can be sharpened to be lethal. You don't really need metal knives. Just use plastic ones or buy everything pre-cut.

you see, thats why I cant agree with antigun people. Because of that attitude.

You all assume we want guns because we can, or because we feel obligated due to what our founding fathers said.

Yet you fail to take in the fact that we actually use the guns we buy, or they serve a purpose.

You buy a CD or movie or videogame a lot of the time for the hell of it. You dont spend hundreds, if not thousands, on something for the hell of it, or "because you can".

I might walk down the street and see a cool poster in a store and buy it because I think it looks cool, a spur of the moment purchase. But I am not going to walk past a gun shop and go "oooh, that gun is purdy, here is 600 bucks".

Buying a gun is more like buying a car. You buy it with a very very specific intent.

owning guns is old fashioned and should have stayed with the founding fathers. In this day and age gun ownership isnt needed

why not?

because this isnt the wild wild west anymore, civilians dont deserve the privilege of owning a gun because we live in a civilized society. Yes I know so people commit crimes the police should sort it out. We aren't gun carrying vigilantes

i say they do deserve the right. people are inheritantly good. so if you strengthen good people against bad ones, the good ones win.

the funny thing is, your argument was so easily refuted because you didnt really provide one.

again no mater how good people are, guns should be banned. guns shouldn't protect people the police should

Its funny that the police arent right next to a murderer or a burglar when they commit a crime. I cant rely on the police for every problem I get into.

What makes the police so high and mighty? Why should they carry a gun and I cant? Cops kill more people than citizens do. Its people like this granny that bring these criminals to justice and most of the time they do it my not shooting anyone. Cops are no better than anyone else.

I had nothing against America, and still dont but I dont see why it was necessary to bring it up twice for no reason

alexmurray

It was you who brought it up. Scroll up to see it. You keep trying to compare time periods, and people responded.

Whooped the british all the way back to their tiny island. The_Mac_Daddy

Whooped the british all the way back to their tiny island. The_Mac_Daddy

yes and that tiny island ended up conquering a 1/4 of the world

Whooped the british all the way back to their tiny island. The_Mac_Daddy

Too bad we burnt down your capital 19 years later ;)

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

I had nothing against America, and still dont but I dont see why it was necessary to bring it up twice for no reason

The_Ish

It was you who brought it up. Scroll up to see it. You keep trying to compare time periods, and people responded.

I remember seeing a stat saying that the overwhelming majority of gun related crimes/murders were caused by people with illegally obtained firearms.

It's not the guns that are killing people. It's the problem of poor, uneducated people using them in crimes. 99 percent of the people who own firearms don't commit crimes with them.

If you want to solve the gun murder problem, you have to get to the root of the problem; which is WHY are people murdering others? It's usually drug related or gang related in the majority of cases. I say solve those problems, and you'll fix the gun shooting problems.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

I had nothing against America, and still dont but I dont see why it was necessary to bring it up twice for no reason

The_Ish

It was you who brought it up. Scroll up to see it. You keep trying to compare time periods, and people responded.

I was comparing the wild west to today, not the revolution somebody else did that

Also, to those people who keep using the "wild shootings" in the US as an argument:

Each of these shootings occurred in placed that prided itself as a "safe, gun-free zone". If the schools allowed at least one person in the staff that was Federally qualified to use a gun to maintain and operate one should an incident arise, there would have been a lot less victims.

again: most murders in the states are a result of drug laws. legalize drugs and youll see a decrease in murder rates.

i know though that most people are only interested in forcing their ideas onto others, so im sure youll say "BU BUT GUNS R BADDDDDDDDDDDD"

H8sMikeMoore

Yes it was, the British army would have defeated the rebellion if it hadn't have been the french aid

alexmurray

That's completely false.

You have clue what would have happend if France didn't stop Cornwallis from escaping at Yorkdown.

The war would have dragged on.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]Whooped the british all the way back to their tiny island. jointed

Too bad we burnt down your capital 19 years later ;)

this thread isnt going to end well :lol:

I was comparing the wild west to today, not the revolution somebody else did that

alexmurray

But you brought up a different American time period and someone else responded appropiately. What part of that didn't you get?

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

Yes it was, the British army would have defeated the rebellion if it hadn't have been the french aid

limpbizkit818

That's completely false.

You have clue what would have happend if France didn't stop Cornwallis from escaping at Yorkdown.

The war would have dragged on.

either way America would have eventually got its independence just like Canada did